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manlisten
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 Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2023 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Laker's Fan wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Reds622 wrote: | How is Milwaukee going to get better? They aren’t a free agent destination.. Jrue and Middleton are just getting closer to the downside, although they are both still great players.. no young players in the pipeline.
I don’t see it.
I’ve seen this story before. This is the first step in a complicated break up, IMO.
He wants to leave without being hated. He had no choice because Milwaukee could no longer win.
Now, if they win again this upcoming season, I suppose all bets are off.
The owner did sell his share of the team last season.. just saying. |
Yeah they’re pretty locked into this squad which is very good but may not be good enough. Their trade assets are old and they’ve got a lot of bill left to pay from the Holiday trade. Swaps in 24 and 26 and unprotected 1sts in 25 and 27. They’ve got their 1sts from 2028 on which is probably their best bet to land a significant player, but those are risky picks to give up when you could very well be in a rebuild. |
They're also one of the three teams in the repeater this year along with GS and LAC. So they're not set up to spend their way out of a competitive hole (which is harder to do now anyway). |
Being in the repeater tax in order to try to win a title with Giannis is a good selling point for the Bucks. Especially compared to the Lakers who are avoiding it with Lebron and AD. Would Giannis want to come to a franchise that wouldn’t do everything possible to get him a title? But if he decides to leave the Bucks there will be no shortage of teams who would be willing to spend around him. |
The Lakers wouldn't even be in position to pursue Giannis if they were in the repeater. Seems easy enough to understand. The Lakers are currently setup to contend while avoiding the tax. He'll be available in free agency.
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nomoreshaq
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Joined: 21 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2023 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| seeing that GS, LAC and MIL are not exactly runaway favorites to run the title this year (to be fair no one is), the repeater tax appears to be a HINDRANCE rather than "my team will spend to win". spending to win is actually a big time penalty now. |
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Reds622
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Joined: 22 May 2015
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| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2023 7:17 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Laker's Fan wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Reds622 wrote: | How is Milwaukee going to get better? They aren’t a free agent destination.. Jrue and Middleton are just getting closer to the downside, although they are both still great players.. no young players in the pipeline.
I don’t see it.
I’ve seen this story before. This is the first step in a complicated break up, IMO.
He wants to leave without being hated. He had no choice because Milwaukee could no longer win.
Now, if they win again this upcoming season, I suppose all bets are off.
The owner did sell his share of the team last season.. just saying. |
Yeah they’re pretty locked into this squad which is very good but may not be good enough. Their trade assets are old and they’ve got a lot of bill left to pay from the Holiday trade. Swaps in 24 and 26 and unprotected 1sts in 25 and 27. They’ve got their 1sts from 2028 on which is probably their best bet to land a significant player, but those are risky picks to give up when you could very well be in a rebuild. |
They're also one of the three teams in the repeater this year along with GS and LAC. So they're not set up to spend their way out of a competitive hole (which is harder to do now anyway). |
Being in the repeater tax in order to try to win a title with Giannis is a good selling point for the Bucks. Especially compared to the Lakers who are avoiding it with Lebron and AD. Would Giannis want to come to a franchise that wouldn’t do everything possible to get him a title? But if he decides to leave the Bucks there will be no shortage of teams who would be willing to spend around him. |
Most likely, there will be no team that will offer him a better opportunity to win than the Lakers when he becomes a FA. Davis, Reaves, and strong role players playing in Los Angeles for the Lakers will be about as good as it gets, assuming everyone stays healthy.
If he wants to leave the Bucks and he is open to playing on the west coast and in Los Angeles, then I think the Lakers have a good shot. To say otherwise is to just have the Laker hater glasses on, which some are good at around here. |
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2023 9:09 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | Giannis at 31-33 would still be better than Lebron at 37-39. I would easily trade Reaves, Rui, DLO, draft picks etc (gut the team) for Giannis, but easily the Bucks say no.
Whether we realize this or not, with Jeanie/Pelinka, there will be no longterm re-build. If we can trade for Giannis, I can't believe some wouldn't want to part with players like Reaves. Especially at the prospect of getting Giannis at this stage and not 2 years from now.
I like Reaves a lot, he may be my favorite player on the team at the moment, but when you have a player like Giannis, you make everyone on this current Lakers roster available - not that the Bucks would likely take any deal at this point in time.
I know the WB trade scarred us, but we shouldn't make that blunder marry ourselves to the system that has never won in LA - to overvalue the supporting cast . LA wins by making moves for the absolute best players in the league. Lebron was a top 5 player in 2020, Kobe was a top 5 player in 2008-2010, Shaq/Kobe in 2000-2002 etc. You could argue AD was a top 5 player in 2019-20 and the same for Pau at some point in his Laker career/peak.
If you believe Giannis has even 3 top 5 level years left in the tank, you make that trade if you are the Lakers. Austin Reaves is a hell of a supporting cast member but if there's an opportunity to get Giannis for Reaves, draft picks, supporting cast level players, I can't see why we wouldn't go for it. |
I don’t disagree, there are no assets here that make you say no to a Giannis trade. Unless you are Milwaukee. A 31-33 year old Giannis gives you a 2-year window, similar to bringing in a over the prime Lebron. If the FO wants to play that game I would expect more misses than wins.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2023 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| manlisten wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Laker's Fan wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Reds622 wrote: | How is Milwaukee going to get better? They aren’t a free agent destination.. Jrue and Middleton are just getting closer to the downside, although they are both still great players.. no young players in the pipeline.
I don’t see it.
I’ve seen this story before. This is the first step in a complicated break up, IMO.
He wants to leave without being hated. He had no choice because Milwaukee could no longer win.
Now, if they win again this upcoming season, I suppose all bets are off.
The owner did sell his share of the team last season.. just saying. |
Yeah they’re pretty locked into this squad which is very good but may not be good enough. Their trade assets are old and they’ve got a lot of bill left to pay from the Holiday trade. Swaps in 24 and 26 and unprotected 1sts in 25 and 27. They’ve got their 1sts from 2028 on which is probably their best bet to land a significant player, but those are risky picks to give up when you could very well be in a rebuild. |
They're also one of the three teams in the repeater this year along with GS and LAC. So they're not set up to spend their way out of a competitive hole (which is harder to do now anyway). |
Being in the repeater tax in order to try to win a title with Giannis is a good selling point for the Bucks. Especially compared to the Lakers who are avoiding it with Lebron and AD. Would Giannis want to come to a franchise that wouldn’t do everything possible to get him a title? But if he decides to leave the Bucks there will be no shortage of teams who would be willing to spend around him. |
The Lakers wouldn't even be in position to pursue Giannis if they were in the repeater. Seems easy enough to understand. The Lakers are currently setup to contend while avoiding the tax. He'll be available in free agency. |
And he would want to leave a team that is doing everything to try to win with him for a team that won’t?
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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manlisten
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Joined: 09 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2023 10:24 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: |
And he would want to leave a team that is doing everything to try to win with him for a team that won’t? |
If you somehow assume the Lakers won't pay the luxury tax ever again then sure.
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It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
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Reds622
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| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2023 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| manlisten wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: |
And he would want to leave a team that is doing everything to try to win with him for a team that won’t? |
If you somehow assume the Lakers won't pay the luxury tax ever again then sure. |
Don’t you understand, if your thinking about a franchise that is going to contend for the next 5-10 seasons… then obviously that franchise is the Milwaukee Bucks, a franchise that has historically contended for championships over the last 40 or so seasons.
Why would anyone think the Lakers are more likely to contend than Milwaukee? Don’t you know anything? |
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LakerFan1987
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Joined: 30 Oct 2022
Posts: 1830
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| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2023 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| Reds622 wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: |
And he would want to leave a team that is doing everything to try to win with him for a team that won’t? |
If you somehow assume the Lakers won't pay the luxury tax ever again then sure. |
Don’t you understand, if your thinking about a franchise that is going to contend for the next 5-10 seasons… then obviously that franchise is the Milwaukee Bucks, a franchise that has historically contended for championships over the last 40 or so seasons.
Why would anyone think the Lakers are more likely to contend than Milwaukee? Don’t you know anything? |
Should go to the Clippers ... always building a contender.  |
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GOODRICH25
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Joined: 17 Jun 2017
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| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2023 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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Giannis has a couple of options, depending on the timing of when exactly he leaves. Team up with Doncic at Dallas, Wembayana if he becomes what we think, Denver? East he got Boston and maybe a team like Orlando arises. And ofcourse no one can discredit us. Davis will still be in his prime and we got Reaves locked on a bargain. If he values being the best player while winning (aka "his team"), we are one of his best options
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LakerFan1987
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27
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Posts: 4647
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2023 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| manlisten wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: |
And he would want to leave a team that is doing everything to try to win with him for a team that won’t? |
If you somehow assume the Lakers won't pay the luxury tax ever again then sure. |
I assume he read the report that Giannis is interested in the clippers or something otherwise that is a very bad take. honestly, one of the worst. |
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vasashi17+
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| Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2023 8:45 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Michael Scotto: The Milwaukee Bucks signed Alex Antetokounmpo, league sources confirmed to @hoopshype. He joins brothers Thanasis and Giannis Antetokounmpo on the roster heading into training camp. He played for the G League’s Wisconsin Herd last season.
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I don’t know if we even got a shot to be hiannist with y’all.
The Freak took the right approach in all of this by not extending right now. This way applies pressure for management to keep spending, but will also make much more by using his player opt out and gaining roughly 5.7m more towards his 2025/26 annual (player opt in is for 51m+ which is below 35% of what the cap could climb to by then ) and then signing on till 2030/31 on a 5 yr reup.
AD could have applied the same type of pressure by holding off on his extension, but due to age and his durability, I’m sure he wanted that extra bit if security by reupping now instead of later. Can’t really knock the hustle, but in an ideal scenario it wound have been nice to hold management accountable towards investing in the roster around him instead of ducking the repeater tax.
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gng930
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| Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2023 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | Giannis at 31-33 would still be better than Lebron at 37-39. I would easily trade Reaves, Rui, DLO, draft picks etc (gut the team) for Giannis, but easily the Bucks say no.
Whether we realize this or not, with Jeanie/Pelinka, there will be no longterm re-build. If we can trade for Giannis, I can't believe some wouldn't want to part with players like Reaves. Especially at the prospect of getting Giannis at this stage and not 2 years from now.
I like Reaves a lot, he may be my favorite player on the team at the moment, but when you have a player like Giannis, you make everyone on this current Lakers roster available - not that the Bucks would likely take any deal at this point in time.
I know the WB trade scarred us, but we shouldn't make that blunder marry ourselves to the system that has never won in LA - to overvalue the supporting cast . LA wins by making moves for the absolute best players in the league. Lebron was a top 5 player in 2020, Kobe was a top 5 player in 2008-2010, Shaq/Kobe in 2000-2002 etc. You could argue AD was a top 5 player in 2019-20 and the same for Pau at some point in his Laker career/peak.
If you believe Giannis has even 3 top 5 level years left in the tank, you make that trade if you are the Lakers. Austin Reaves is a hell of a supporting cast member but if there's an opportunity to get Giannis for Reaves, draft picks, supporting cast level players, I can't see why we wouldn't go for it. |
I don’t disagree, there are no assets here that make you say no to a Giannis trade. Unless you are Milwaukee. A 31-33 year old Giannis gives you a 2-year window, similar to bringing in a over the prime Lebron. If the FO wants to play that game I would expect more misses than wins. |
I'd rather wait until free agency then. He'd turn 30 before the season is over and I'm not obliterating my depth for that. AR's deal gives us a rare opportunity to put depth around 3 impact players. It's tough to know how Giannis' game will age considering his limited skillset on offense.
There's also a reasonable chance I'm being irrationale though. It's the offseason and the AR hype-train is running in turbo mode.
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JUST-MING
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| Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2023 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| We wouldn't trade our depth for Giannis, but we would gut our roster to sign Giannis as a free agent. Is that our stance? |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2023 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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| manlisten wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: |
And he would want to leave a team that is doing everything to try to win with him for a team that won’t? |
If you somehow assume the Lakers won't pay the luxury tax ever again then sure. |
I think that it is safe to assume that they won’t pay repeater luxury tax.
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Japago
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| Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2023 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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When someone pointed out that Giannis can't get another supermax pay bump, I actually started to feel pretty good about Giannis leaving just because I think they're stuck with their roster. With the exception of Portis, all of their supporting cast is old. They've been worse since 2021, and they're unlikely to get better naturally because of the aforementioned age. The Bucks also still owe swaps/picks from 2024 to 2027.
Will he go to the Lakers though? I think the Lakers can offer a good situation. Even though I don't think the Lakers are currently true title contenders, I think the equation changes when you insert a true top tier superstar like Giannis. The Lakers will have to compete with a lot of teams to get him.
I think off-court factors won't be as big of a factor as they were with LeBron because LeBron was situated in LA before he went to the Lakers and LeBron's kids going to school in LA gave LA a big off-court advantage. They still could be a factor, but I think they were glaringly obvious at the time with LeBron. |
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LakerFan1987
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| Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2023 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| JUST-MING wrote: | | We wouldn't trade our depth for Giannis, but we would gut our roster to sign Giannis as a free agent. Is that our stance? |
I wouldn't use the term gut. You just don't bring back LBJ and then clear $5-10M. |
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RashardA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2023 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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Tatum. Tatum. Tatum.
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