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ribeye
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2024 7:23 am    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
While the regulars here know this, and likely a few can name them off the top of their head, which I missed Ohtani, duh, but these are the starting Dodgers pitchers on the IL:

Kershaw
May
Gonsolin
Miller
Sheehan
Yamamoto
Ohtani

with Buehler still not back as old self.

MLB needs to fix this, but I'm not sure they can, since harder and harder and faster and faster and spinier and spinier is in such demand.


Something else that is becoming more apparent. It didn't seem like that long ago that the 300 win pitcher was becoming extinct. Now, there are 3 active pitchers with 200 wins (Verlander 260, Scherzer 214, and Kershaw 210) but the next and possibly only pitcher in the foreseeable future with a reasonable chance at 200 is Cole at 145 wins.

Is 200 win the next extinction?
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2024 9:26 am    Post subject:

^

Interesting.

I wonder why and where all the wins are going?

The obvious answer is the wins are now going to the bullpen.

So before, when starters were staying in the game longer, they were getting more wins (and thus, the team was getting more wins).

Now, they come out earlier (5-6ip), they’re not getting as many wins and the team probably doesn’t get as many wins.

For example, let’s take Kershaw over 15 years. Let’s say he makes 30 starts a yr or 450 starts in 15 yrs. That’s quite alot but it’s something to work with. Let’s say he leaves 300 of those starts with a lead:

Quote:
Leaves after 7ip
Back in the old days, he’d avg 7ip per start. So, the BP only needs to pick up 2ip to preserve his win. Theoretically, this leads to more wins for the starter and the team

Leaves after 5-6ip
Now he leaves after 5-6ip, but with a lead. The BP converts less of these “save” situations and thus Kershaw n the team win less.


Is this what’s happening? If it is, then it goes against analytics. Analytics says that, when you take starters out earlier (so they don’t face the batting order a 3rd time), you increase your chances of winning that game.

If this is true, shouldn’t starters be racking up more wins, not less?

Another theory would be: when pitchers stay in longer, they have more chances at a comeback. So, they might be down after 5-6ip, but if u leave them in until 7ip, they might be ahead.

Who knows.
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JerryWest_44
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2024 11:53 am    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Kershaw just completed a rehab start at Rancho Cucamonga. 3 IP, 1 ER, 2 hits, 1 BB, 5 K. Just 36 pitches.


His fastball was clocked at 90mph
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2024 11:56 am    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Kershaw just completed a rehab start at Rancho Cucamonga. 3 IP, 1 ER, 2 hits, 1 BB, 5 K. Just 36 pitches.


Get to 3K K’s my sweet prince, I beg you
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aprevo15
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2024 12:25 pm    Post subject:

Gavin Stone is on fire today. Please don't get hurt and please keep doing what you're doing now through post season.
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aprevo15
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2024 12:29 pm    Post subject:

Taylor is getting better lately. I guess when you were down so much, there's only way to go and that is up. LOL. He's avg in last 7 games is 2.50. Not bad.
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2024 12:37 pm    Post subject:

aprevo15 wrote:
Gavin Stone is on fire today. Please don't get hurt and please keep doing what you're doing now through post season.


I’d argue Stone’s been our 2nd best/most consistent pitcher this year.
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aprevo15
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2024 12:43 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
aprevo15 wrote:
Gavin Stone is on fire today. Please don't get hurt and please keep doing what you're doing now through post season.


I’d argue Stone’s been our 2nd best/most consistent pitcher this year.


I agree with you. I just looked up his stats and I am really surprised. I made sure to watch the games where Glasnow and Yamamoto throw so I wasn't really pay attention to Stone. Now he has become a must watch game for me.
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aprevo15
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2024 12:47 pm    Post subject:

Roberts takes stone out after loading the bases with 1 out. He should of let him try to get out of this inning. It would have been good for him. We do have a 5 run lead. Even if we somehow lose this game it wouldn't really affect our post season chances.

As I was typing this Treinen gives up a hit and 2 runs score. See Stone should of stayed in.
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2024 2:18 pm    Post subject:

Took 3 out of 4, not too bad.

Yes, Stone has been great this year, but he hasn't been better than Yamamoto. Yamamoto has been sensational apart from his very first inning in Korea. Obviously, now we just have to hope that he'll be OK in a few weeks.

Taylor has only struck out once in his last 13 AB's. Hey, that's something!
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2024 5:07 pm    Post subject:

Brewers rookie pitcher Robert Gasser will undergo season-ending elbow surgery, the club announced. It will either be Tommy John or that internal brace procedure that some guys are getting now (or a variation of both).

Another one bites the dust.
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2024 8:05 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Brewers rookie pitcher Robert Gasser will undergo season-ending elbow surgery, the club announced. It will either be Tommy John or that internal brace procedure that some guys are getting now (or a variation of both).

Another one bites the dust.


I think that was the main guy they got for Hader.

Quote:
the Brewers sent Hader to the Padres for lefty reliever Taylor Rogers, who until recently was San Diego’s closer, plus right-hander Dinelson Lamet and prospects Robert Gasser and Esteury Ruiz


Quote:
In addition to the two Major League pitchers coming to Milwaukee in the deal (Taylor Rogers and Dinelson Lamet), the Brewers picked up left-handed pitching prospect Robert Gasser and outfielder Esteury Ruiz, who each ranked in MLB Pipeline’s list of San Diego’s Top 30 prospects and were slotted in at Nos. 8 and 9, respectively, on Milwaukee's top prospects list.
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DuncanIdaho
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2024 8:46 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Brewers rookie pitcher Robert Gasser will undergo season-ending elbow surgery, the club announced. It will either be Tommy John or that internal brace procedure that some guys are getting now (or a variation of both).

Another one bites the dust.


Pretty sure he tried to rehab his elbow, which in the history of baseball has never worked. Should have had the surgery earlier.
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2024 8:59 pm    Post subject:

DuncanIdaho wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Brewers rookie pitcher Robert Gasser will undergo season-ending elbow surgery, the club announced. It will either be Tommy John or that internal brace procedure that some guys are getting now (or a variation of both).

Another one bites the dust.


Pretty sure he tried to rehab his elbow, which in the history of baseball has never worked. Should have had the surgery earlier.


Kyle Bradish did the same thing with his UCL sprain that he suffered during the spring, resumed a throwing program eventually, was pain-free for a bit, but it crapped out on him and now he'll be out until 2026. These guys tend to opt for surgery as an absolute last resort. The only pitcher I can think of who avoided surgery basically for years was Ervin Santana. He had a partially torn UCL that was discovered in an MRI with the Angels and was able to pitch through it after going on the IL, and it never fully tore. He just kept pitching with that, I think maybe until his career was actually over. I guess he was one of the lucky ones.
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2024 9:55 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
DuncanIdaho wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Brewers rookie pitcher Robert Gasser will undergo season-ending elbow surgery, the club announced. It will either be Tommy John or that internal brace procedure that some guys are getting now (or a variation of both).

Another one bites the dust.


Pretty sure he tried to rehab his elbow, which in the history of baseball has never worked. Should have had the surgery earlier.


Kyle Bradish did the same thing with his UCL sprain that he suffered during the spring, resumed a throwing program eventually, was pain-free for a bit, but it crapped out on him and now he'll be out until 2026. These guys tend to opt for surgery as an absolute last resort. The only pitcher I can think of who avoided surgery basically for years was Ervin Santana. He had a partially torn UCL that was discovered in an MRI with the Angels and was able to pitch through it after going on the IL, and it never fully tore. He just kept pitching with that, I think maybe until his career was actually over. I guess he was one of the lucky ones.


Masahiro Tanaka and now, Gerrit Cole come to mind.
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2024 11:15 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
DuncanIdaho wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Brewers rookie pitcher Robert Gasser will undergo season-ending elbow surgery, the club announced. It will either be Tommy John or that internal brace procedure that some guys are getting now (or a variation of both).

Another one bites the dust.


Pretty sure he tried to rehab his elbow, which in the history of baseball has never worked. Should have had the surgery earlier.


Kyle Bradish did the same thing with his UCL sprain that he suffered during the spring, resumed a throwing program eventually, was pain-free for a bit, but it crapped out on him and now he'll be out until 2026. These guys tend to opt for surgery as an absolute last resort. The only pitcher I can think of who avoided surgery basically for years was Ervin Santana. He had a partially torn UCL that was discovered in an MRI with the Angels and was able to pitch through it after going on the IL, and it never fully tore. He just kept pitching with that, I think maybe until his career was actually over. I guess he was one of the lucky ones.


Masahiro Tanaka and now, Gerrit Cole come to mind.


And this isn't an elbow, but Kodai Senga is trying to come back from a strained shoulder capsule. Plus, he actually had a setback already with triceps tendinitis in the midst of being out. He's only just this week thrown a bullpen session, so he's not even as far as Kershaw is in his recovery. Supposedly he's going to face hitters in live BP next week, if all continues to progress.

Oh yeah, speaking of Kershaw, some have noted on Dodger Twitter that you're allowed 30 days in the minors when on a rehab assignment, and that the 30 days would be up on July 19, which happens to be the first game back out of the All-Star break and it's a home game against the Red Sox. Some are already speculating that the plan is going to be to have him take all of the 30 days to keep his MLB innings down, and then bring him back for the first start after the break. Because if his velocity is what it was last year (90 MPH) and if he's already at 3 innings/36 pitches, that he could get to 50 in his next start and then 70-ish in his next one, and then he'd be ready to go after that. That would be before the All-Star break, but they probably just want to play it safe and give him further time.
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2024 5:25 am    Post subject:

^

I think you can extend rehab assignments. I remember this issue coming up with Buehler:

Quote:
On June 19, Bubic allowed one run on six hits in 4 1/3 innings for Omaha, walking two and striking out eight. He needed 93 pitches and is fully built up as a starter, which means the Royals could have him return to their rotation or in the bullpen, depending on their need at the time.

Quote:
Bubic's rehab was extended another 10 days on June 15, a rule that allows pitchers recovering from Tommy John to spend more than the maximum of 30 days on a rehab assignment if approved by the player and union.


They can extend the rehab assignment by 10 days up to three times but must revisit and approve it after each 10-day window. Bubic's rehab assignment has been extended twice now, and it'll be assessed again on June 26. He could pitch out of Kansas City's bullpen or rotation at some point this year, but the team doesn't want to rush him back as he gets more reps.

(Last updated: June 20)


Maybe only TJS cases
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ribeye
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2024 9:30 am    Post subject:

aprevo15 wrote:
Roberts takes stone out after loading the bases with 1 out. He should of let him try to get out of this inning. It would have been good for him. We do have a 5 run lead. Even if we somehow lose this game it wouldn't really affect our post season chances.

As I was typing this Treinen gives up a hit and 2 runs score. See Stone should of stayed in.


I'm not trying to be contrarian here, but had he not taken him out and a ball goes to the wall or over, just how many comments would we have about not yanking him when he should have.

You play the odds or maybe you play your gut, but never can you always play it right.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2024 11:34 am    Post subject:

Shota Imanaga has now allowed 19 runs in his last 24 innings.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2024 12:03 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Shota Imanaga has now allowed 19 runs in his last 24 innings.


We all knew it was going to happen too. A fly ball pitcher in Wrigley as it turns to summer.
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MookieBetts50
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2024 4:17 pm    Post subject:

Wtf, another Austin Barnes start?
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Steve007
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2024 6:15 pm    Post subject:

Curious to see Knack pitch.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2024 6:28 pm    Post subject:

DuncanIdaho wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Shota Imanaga has now allowed 19 runs in his last 24 innings.


We all knew it was going to happen too. A fly ball pitcher in Wrigley as it turns to summer.


Even Fernando had some ugly starts after his spectacular start and was pretty ordinary the rest of the season. And Fernando was one of the best pitchers of the decade. There was no way it was sustainable.

Shota gave up 4 earned runs in his last 3 starts coming into today (he gave up 5 runs to the White Sox but 4 were unearned).

He has finally started to give up home runs though. He doesn’t walk many hitters so that limits some of the damage from the home runs.

I thought there was a good chance that by the end of the season Yamamoto would have the better numbers, but then Yamamoto got hurt.


Last edited by Steve007 on Fri Jun 21, 2024 6:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2024 6:31 pm    Post subject:

Yamamoto era 2.92
Shota era 2.96
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Steve007
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2024 6:50 pm    Post subject:

Knack throwing a fastball at 92-93 and still looks better than Buehler. Kershaw throws it even slower and is still able to dominate in the regular season.
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