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aprevo15
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Joined: 08 Jun 2010
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 Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2024 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| 4 games vs Dbacks and 3 vs Padres next month. Going to be exciting. |
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ribeye
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Joined: 10 Nov 2001
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| Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2024 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | The team is without its most valuable player, a hundred RBI dude, and about a league's worth of pitchers.
And the world is ending for some. Get a grip. |
I'll tell you what dismays me, rib. And LBP has talked about this and I must say, I agree with it. And that is, this team simply shows no sense of urgency. Ever. Even Will Smith recently said, and I'm paraphrasing: "We'll be fine. We're the Dodgers." Yeah, we have a lot of guys injured. In your mind, do you think management did enough to try to patch holes? Do you think any urgency was shown? I mean, look at the lineups we've fielded for weeks and weeks on end. Cavan Biggio was the best we could do?!?! And oh by the way, our dope of a manager was regularly starting Biggio over Rosario. You know, the guy who is hitting .300 who can barely get on the field for us. But no, let's keep starting the terrible player that we DFA'd instead. Great work!
We traded just one of our top 15 prospects this deadline season. We could have done much, much more to improve this team. Even the guy we're apparently counting on in CF, Edman, has not played at all this season so there's risk in that, too. |
And yet, they're still in first. What is it that most complain about--three guesses and the first two don't count. I really think that the Dodgers are most aware of said concern and are trying to position themselves to be healthy and playing good ball come playoffs. Regardless, there are no guarantees in baseball in any short series, as, just as they've failed in recent years, a far less competitive team in 1988, with their best position player on the bench except for that one at bat, won it all. |
One thing I’ll add ribeye, you’re more into criticizing the fans than the team/players.
That’s your right, but, what are you really adding if it’s just to tell fans how wrong/bad/annoying their ideas/thoughts are?
Off the top of my head, I think we’re not allowed to criticize:
| Quote: | - Jansen
- Justin Turner
- Kershaw
- the team’s lack of playoff success
- the team’s reg season struggles |
At some point, what’s the point of a fans message board when fans aren’t allowed to express any critical opinions?
How interesting would things be if it just became one big kumbaya-fest around here? |
You go ahead and criticize players who have been loyal and productive. I'll criticize you or others if I think you are off base. That's how I see a message board works.
Yes, I defended Jansen (you know the guy who is freeking 4th all time in saves) (that's FOURTH ALL TIME), especially when you said Baez should take his spot. Yes I defended Turner, a solid and often clutch hitter who you, effectively, if not directly, said was washed up. Yes I defend Kershaw who should be honored and appreciated (the #1 all time Dodger according to BB Reference) rather than relentlessly criticized (though even I have often acknowledged his post season woes), who was brutally criticized by many here for trying to compete last year when he had arm/shoulder problems, and furthered brutalized for a bad outing his second time after missing, what 9 months, due to shoulder surgery. And you missed one. I defended Muncy who hit 36 HRs and drove in 105 (and ahead of pace this year before injury), with a 116 OPS+. Not HoF, but not chopped liver either. Worthy of criticism? To you, but not to me.
It is perspective. Hitting a baseball, being the most difficult aspect of professional sports in my opinion (and I'd like to think Mr. Couldn't Even Make It To AAA, MJ's as well). Pitching a baseball, consistently and effectively, by maintaining mechanics and health, seems to be right next to hitting a baseball, as far as difficulty goes, especially today. As such, slumps occur. Few players avoid them. Few hit or pitch the same each year.
Now, there are many others I don't defend. And I was highly critical of Bellinger when he constantly tried to kill the ball with every swing. But generally speaking, I root for my team. I suspect, beside JODEKE, I've been a Dodger fan longer than any here. This doesn't mean much, but it does mean I've seen a lot, that I've seen a lot of heartbreak, some really (bleep) teams, and more ups and downs than I can begin to remember. But then I can just about name off the top of my head all the starting position players and most of the pitchers of the 1959 Dodgers. And I don't remember ever criticizing a one, though I'm sure I have.
No, I don't want a kumbaya-fest. But I don't like a constant (bleep)-fest either.
Over the last decade, not counting this season, the Dodgers have averaged 101 wins (using a pro-rata 116 for 2020). They have never done this before in their history (few teams have ever), or even come close, and have 5, 100+ win seasons during this spell, one more than the 4 they had from 1900 and up to that point. Perspective.
Man, to think of what we'd hear if it were the A's we're talking about, or the Cubbies up until 2016 and thereafter, or the '62 Mets, or so many others.
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LongBeachPoly
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Joined: 14 Jul 2012
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| Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2024 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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^
This comes across as: I root for the team my way, and my way is the right way to root for the team/players.
Your explanation didn’t help. Basically you’re saying, I’ve determined it’s ok to criticize Bellinger, so anyone who does I won’t say anything. I’ve also determined it’s not ok to criticize Kershaw, so anyone who does I will call out.
Like I said, you certainly have that right. I personally don’t see the value other than to come across as lecturing.
Out of everyone who participates on this board, you come across as the one who hates/loathes the opinions around here the most.
What exactly is the value of coming around every so often just to remind people how much you hate/dislike their opinions? |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2024 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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OK. I get it. You, or others, can criticize Dodgers but if I call you out for it, I'm the one lecturing.
It seems to me that there is a healthy amount of projection going on, but we are not going agree so it is best to move on.
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2024 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | OK. I get it. You, or others, can criticize Dodgers but if I call you out for it, I'm the one lecturing.
It seems to me that there is a healthy amount of projection going on, but we are not going agree so it is best to move on. |
Like I said, it’s definitely your right to do so. I just don’t see the value in it, that’s all.
For instance, if a few people say: “Kershaw’s done” and you disagree, there are different ways that you can choose to respond:
| Quote: | | 1) “I disagree, I think Kershaw still has more left in the tank.” |
At least this promotes dialog and conversation.
| Quote: | | 2) “I’m sick and tired of reading about Kershaw being done. Yall need to stop because it’s annoying to read.” |
This has little value to me. It promotes no dialog. It’s just telling people to write what you wish/want them to write. Hence my “kumbaya-fest” comment.
And when you apply it to pretty much any topic which involves: Jansen, JT, Kershaw, the playoffs, the reg season, etc., then it just becomes repetitive lecturing…
The reason why I find no value in it is because, for any topic, you’re always going to have people on both sides of the fence. All you can really do is disagree. But to tell the other side that their views are annoying to read and they should change it to align with yours…..
Where’s the value other than just demanding that people should think/act like you do?
Last edited by LongBeachPoly on Thu Aug 08, 2024 8:33 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Snipes
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| Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2024 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | OK. I get it. You, or others, can criticize Dodgers but if I call you out for it, I'm the one lecturing.
It seems to me that there is a healthy amount of projection going on, but we are not going agree so it is best to move on. |
Rib I align with you more than anyone here on your takes (hated Belli, always ride for Kersh, sour about Seager). Actually I don’t know or remember if you care about Seager but anyway.
I think what I’m realizing as I see the doom and gloom messages is everyone copes and deals with the team differently. It can definitely be frustrating to read sometimes but everyone is entitled to their opinion and feelings. I think just a couple pages ago I couldn’t deal with the Kersh hate and I felt like I just HAD to say something. But I didn’t have to say anything/nor should I have. And the same way I feel that people are wrong and what they’re saying is frustrating, I’m sure they feel the same about me or you for that matter. What’s funny is as optimistic as I am about the Dodgers, I am the total opposite in the Laker lounge 
Anyways one thing I am grateful for (which I’m realizing this year) is that I do care about the regular season. My entire summer revolves around baseball and I much rather be crushing and cruising to a 100+ wins than not. Especially after last year I said to myself I don’t want to see another 100 win season again because it means nothing; yet here I am wishing we were dominating.
Some of us think we are fine. Some think the whole thing is a huge mess and that we have no chance. That’s the beauty of sports.
Especially on message boards I feel it’s so much harder to put yourself in someone else’s shoes and understand that what they feel/their opinion on something feels very true and real to them.
I don’t know what any of this even means but I guess what I’m trying to say is it’s pointless because no matter how many times Seager/Kersh is brought up I stand on one side and am not willing to budge. I need to understand that those who are on the other side of that feel the exact same way and there is nothing wrong with that.
Last edited by Snipes on Thu Aug 08, 2024 8:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Snipes
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| Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2024 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | Snipes wrote: | | We will be fine. I am ok with a 3 game lead after everything we have gone through. It’s not ideal but it could have been worse. Padres are extremely streaky and they will plummet the same way they rose. The worst is behind us and we still have a lead. Just have to take care of business as our guys return slowly. |
This is the same attitude Roberts, Will Smith and the rest of the team gives off.
Everything will be ok, no worries.
Other teams play with a sense of urgency. We approach everything with zero urgency at all.
PS - not criticizing it from a fans POV, but I dislike it when the team takes this approach. |
You’re right. For me I see it as the Dodgers are my hobby, and stressing about it or being negative takes the fun away. I prefer to be optimistic for the betterment of my own good. Life is hard enough, I rather not make it harder.
But yes if it was my job, or organization that attitude wouldn’t work. I’ve never been a fan of Roberts..I accept him now because I’ve been waiting for him to be fired every year for the last decade. I accept him because I’ve given up. A lot of this attitude also comes from the “numbers will even out” mantra that Friedman and most analytically sound teams have in sports. This mantra has trickled down and when people talk about how great this organization is it comes from that. There are outliers of course but most of the times things are supposed to end up where they should. I think AF has proven this numerous times.
At the same time there comes a point where winning only 1 World Series with the teams we have had just won’t cut it. I think he’s trying to shift his approach a little bit but it goes against his core beliefs.
So I don’t know if you’ll ever see that sense of urgency. It’s just not in us. It’s also why we get bullied by grimey teams. Even Mookie said he knew he was going to beat the (bleep) out of us in 2018 because we weren’t serious. Or was it someone else? Sorry I think he said “when I first came here I could see why e beat them in the World Series”. I’m sure the signal stealing helped too though LOL.
Ultimately the Dodgers are like the hottest girl/guy at the party. Everything is to a T. The only issue is his/her attitude stinks. She/he needs to fix it, but at the same time it is that attitude that also makes them as hot as they are. Weird situation. |
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LongBeachPoly
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Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 16872
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| Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2024 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Snipes wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | OK. I get it. You, or others, can criticize Dodgers but if I call you out for it, I'm the one lecturing.
It seems to me that there is a healthy amount of projection going on, but we are not going agree so it is best to move on. |
Rib I align with you more than anyone here on your takes (hated Belli, always ride for Kersh, sour about Seager). Actually I don’t know or remember if you care about Seager but anyway.
I think what I’m realizing as I see the doom and gloom messages is everyone copes and deals with the team differently. It can definitely be frustrating to read sometimes but everyone is entitled to their opinion and feelings. I think just a couple pages ago I couldn’t deal with the Kersh hate and I felt like I just HAD to say something. But I didn’t have to say anything/nor should I have. And the same way I feel that people are wrong and what they’re saying is frustrating, I’m sure they feel the same about me or you for that matter. What’s funny is as optimistic as I am about the Dodgers, I am the total opposite in the Laker lounge
Anyways one thing I am grateful for (which I’m realizing this year) is that I do care about the regular season. My entire summer revolves around baseball and I much rather be crushing and cruising to a 100+ wins than not. Especially after last year I said to myself I don’t want to see another 100 win season again because it means nothing; yet here I am wishing we were dominating.
Some of us think we are fine. Some think the whole thing is a huge mess and that we have no chance. That’s the beauty of sports.
Especially on message boards I feel it’s so much harder to put yourself in someone else’s shoes and understand that what they feel/their opinion on something feels very true and real to them.
I don’t know what any of this even means but I guess what I’m trying to say is it’s pointless because no matter how many times Seager/Kersh is brought up I stand on one side and am not willing to budge. I need to understand that those who are on the other side of that feel the exact same way and there is nothing wrong with that. |
Well said buddy.
Totally agreed.
I don’t always agree with everyone but I don’t come here to agree with everyone.
All opinions are welcomed to me, as long as it’s on topic and honest. That’s all I ask, nothing more, nothing less. |
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aprevo15
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| Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2024 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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Here's my take on all this. I will continue to post doom and gloom stuff if I feel the need to. Like Snipes said it is the way some deal with the disappointment with the loss. If it bothers someone and that person wants to speak out about it then by all means go for it. It is as much your right to let me know you are not happy about what I said as me venting my frustration towards a certain player on the Dodgers. As long as there are no personal attacks or insults then I don't see any problems with it.
I don't believe in not talking crap about a player because of what he has done in the past. Just like I gave them all the praises and support in the past, if I see that they are not performing like they should then I will voice my opinions. When they do good things, I'll be the first to eat my words. I actually want them to make me eat my words. |
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defense
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Posts: 40366
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2024 5:40 am Post subject: |
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| aprevo15 wrote: | Here's my take on all this. I will continue to post doom and gloom stuff if I feel the need to. Like Snipes said it is the way some deal with the disappointment with the loss. If it bothers someone and that person wants to speak out about it then by all means go for it. It is as much your right to let me know you are not happy about what I said as me venting my frustration towards a certain player on the Dodgers. As long as there are no personal attacks or insults then I don't see any problems with it.
I don't believe in not talking crap about a player because of what he has done in the past. Just like I gave them all the praises and support in the past, if I see that they are not performing like they should then I will voice my opinions. When they do good things, I'll be the first to eat my words. I actually want them to make me eat my words. |
I swing both ways. One day its CHAMPIONSHIP, the next day its, we're FINISHED.
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LakerLanny
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Posts: 47875
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2024 6:02 am Post subject: |
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Team is so banged up right now that of course the results on the field are going to suffer.
Still in position to achieve all their goals this season including a World Series Title but it does feel to me like the Phillies have our number.
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LongBeachPoly
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Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 16872
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2024 6:21 am Post subject: |
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| aprevo15 wrote: | Here's my take on all this. I will continue to post doom and gloom stuff if I feel the need to. Like Snipes said it is the way some deal with the disappointment with the loss. If it bothers someone and that person wants to speak out about it then by all means go for it. It is as much your right to let me know you are not happy about what I said as me venting my frustration towards a certain player on the Dodgers. As long as there are no personal attacks or insults then I don't see any problems with it.
I don't believe in not talking crap about a player because of what he has done in the past. Just like I gave them all the praises and support in the past, if I see that they are not performing like they should then I will voice my opinions. When they do good things, I'll be the first to eat my words. I actually want them to make me eat my words. |
Yup.
Basically, what I’m saying is everybody has different definitions of what’s “fair”.
ribeye feels it’s fair to criticize Bellinger, but not fair to criticize Jansen, Kershaw, the team, etc. No problem with that.
aprevo15 feels it’s fair to praise them when they’re doing well, and criticize them when they’re not. No problem with that as I’m in this camp.
ChickenStu has his own definitions of fairness, whatever it is, and so on. No problem with that.
Obviously, not everyone’s going to have the same definition of fairness, yet everyone feels that they are being fair.
And that’s my point. If everyone feels they’re being fair with their criticisms, then I have a problem when one person continually tells everyone else that they’re not being fair.
Because no one’s own personal definition of fairness is right. Everyone feels they are being fair (based on their own standards of fairness).
I just don’t think one opinion is more “fair” than another person’s opinion.
We’re all equally being fair, because we all have different standards of fairness.
My point is: no one should impose their own standards of fairness on everyone else. And that’s the lecturing part. |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2024 7:11 am Post subject: |
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I said I'd leave it but you must go on and on, but more importantly, you misunderstand and misrepresent what I believe. Let me put this simply for you: There is just criticism, there is piling on, and there is petty criticism. You seem to want to glum all three into one. I don't. I see all three herein, and the former, I don't have a problem with. The latter two, I do. Yes, this is subjective, but since you've twice now brought up the fact that I admitted I was critical of Bellinger (as though it is the same as my criticism of you and others, and that, to say, Kersh is the same as Bellinger), I'll attempt to explain to you why I see it as just to criticize Bellinger. He went from an MVP with an OPS+ of 167, to, almost overnight, an OPS+ of 112, and then to 44 and 81 respectively. That is a dramatic turnaround. That is not a subtle drop. I'm not going to rehash, again, all the other players you bring up over and over, except to simply say, that I thought the criticism I read was premature, petty, and unjust. You can and do disagree.
Fine, we disagree. Do we have to continue this?
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2024 8:27 am Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | …..you misunderstand and misrepresent what I believe. Let me put this simply for you: There is just criticism, there is piling on, and there is petty criticism. You seem to want to glum all three into one. I don't. I see all three herein, and the former, I don't have a problem with. The latter two, I do. |
| ribeye wrote: | I'm not going to rehash, again, all the other players you bring up over and over, except to simply say, that I thought the criticism I read was premature, petty, and unjust. You can and do disagree.
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My point exactly.
Your entire explanation revolves around how fair your criticisms are vs how “unjust” other people’s criticisms are.
I’ve always said, it’s your right to take this stance.
I just don’t know the value of it. Where does the conversation go when you continually tell people their criticisms are “unjust”?
I mean, do you want them to stop? Would that now be more justified because people stop criticizing Kershaw, Jansen, JT, the organization, the playoff failures, the reg season, etc.?
I don’t see the endgame of telling people their criticisms are unjust other than to want them to stop.
Then, it’s just about you trying to dictate what you want people to write/feel around here. Where’s the value in that?
For instance, for me personally, the value I get around here is I want to know people’s HONEST opinions. That’s the value I get.
What value do you get by constantly telling people to stop criticizing certain things?
It’d be like if I had a favorite restaurant and everytime I go eat there, I always enjoy it. Then I go on Yelp and read all these bad reviews of the restaurant.
1) I can tell them all to stop criticizing/piling on because I love the food, or
2) I can let them have their opinion and still enjoy the restaurant personally.
Sure, I want others to love the restaurant as I do. But more importantly, I want them to HONESTLY love the restaurant like I do. If they HONESTLY dont love the restaurant as I do, then that’s fine to me. I’m not going to demand or insist that they love the restaurant like I do.
I know you want others around here to revere Kershaw like you do, but HONESTLY some around here don’t. Are you ok with that? |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2024 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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Alright.
Back to Dodgers talk. Skenes vs Ohtani tonight right?
Nope. Mitch Keller. |
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aprevo15
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2024 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | Alright.
Back to Dodgers talk. Skenes vs Ohtani tonight right?
Nope. Mitch Keller. |
For a second there I thought Shohei was pitching. I was like did I miss something? LOL |
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Snipes
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2024 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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Not sure if I missed this but Roberts announced Betts will be returning to RF after IL stint.
So Heyward goes to the bench and Miggy will play SS. Looks like we are finally prioritizing the D.
Ohtani DH
Betts RF
Freeman 1B
Teo LF
Will C
Max 3B
Lux 2B
Miggy 3B
Edman CF
Kike, Heyward, ct3, Rosario, Barnes off the bench. Rosario and one of Kike/Ct3 will platoon with Max and Lux.
Pages sent down I assume |
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oasisdude77
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Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 2766
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2024 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Snipes wrote: | Not sure if I missed this but Roberts announced Betts will be returning to RF after IL stint.
So Heyward goes to the bench and Miggy will play SS. Looks like we are finally prioritizing the D.
Ohtani DH
Betts RF
Freeman 1B
Teo LF
Will C
Max 3B
Lux 2B
Miggy 3B
Edman CF
Kike, Heyward, ct3, Rosario, Barnes off the bench. Rosario and one of Kike/Ct3 will platoon with Max and Lux.
Pages sent down I assume |
We're really going with some out-of-the-box analytics here as we'll have a gaping hole at short and two men at the hot corner  |
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Snipes
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2024 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| ^^^^ |
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LongBeachPoly
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Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 16872
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2024 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Snipes wrote: | Not sure if I missed this but Roberts announced Betts will be returning to RF after IL stint.
So Heyward goes to the bench and Miggy will play SS. Looks like we are finally prioritizing the D.
Ohtani DH
Betts RF
Freeman 1B
Teo LF
Will C
Max 3B
Lux 2B
Miggy 3B
Edman CF
Kike, Heyward, ct3, Rosario, Barnes off the bench. Rosario and one of Kike/Ct3 will platoon with Max and Lux.
Pages sent down I assume |
So I was right.
They were just stalling. Yeah that’s our best defensive lineup when healthy.
Also, I think only 4 bench players (13 positional players) so one more has got to go to the IL. |
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ChickenStu
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Location: Anaheim, CA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2024 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm guessing that Muncy will likely hit 5th when he returns (or shortly thereafter), dropping the severely slumping Smith to 6th. Even if Smith were hitting just OK (instead of, you know, turning into Cody Bellinger circa 2021-22 for us), we'd likely want to go L-R-L-R-L between Freeman and Lux, to alternate. Since Edman is a switch-hitter, maybe they'd have him hit 8th ahead of Rojas, but who knows. Against lefties, I'm going to assume that only Lux is out of the lineup and whomever is hottest between Rosario/Kike/Taylor will get the starts at second base. I guess they could also opt to bench Rojas against lefties, in order to get 2 of these above guys into the lineup. |
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aprevo15
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Posts: 6429
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2024 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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Ohtani with a monster shot.
Will with a check swing base hit scoring 2. (Finally some luck on Will's side)
Rojas with a rbi base hit.
Great inning.
Better get all your hits in today because tomorrow is Skenes. |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2024 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | | I guess they could also opt to bench Rojas against lefties, in order to get 2 of these above guys into the lineup. |
What would be the logic in benching Rojas vs lefties instead of righties?
Let’s see his splits:
| Quote: | vs lefties: .741 ops
vs righties: .703 ops |
Guess there’s not that much difference |
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ChickenStu
Retired Number
Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 33431
Location: Anaheim, CA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2024 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Hanging slider from Flaherty and it's a 7-4 game now. With our bullpen, who knows. |
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ChickenStu
Retired Number
Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 33431
Location: Anaheim, CA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2024 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| See, Flaherty gets through 5 but with 92 pitches, why even bring him back for the 6th? Just walked the leadoff guy and now he's over 100 pitches and it's only the 6th inning. Meanwhile, we pull guys before 80 pitches in the 5th when they are actually pitching good games. |
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