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Megaton
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Killer_Z
Star Player
Joined: 25 Apr 2011
Posts: 4766
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 Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2023 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| That makes me furious. I remember exactly where I was when I heard rumors that Phil would be returning. It really could have been something special. |
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wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58152
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2023 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| Killer_Z wrote: | | That makes me furious. I remember exactly where I was when I heard rumors that Phil would be returning. It really could have been something special. |
This has been discussed to death, but I don't agree with Jeanie on a few things.
1) Kobe was still breaking down. It was the way Kobe physically worked. Unlike Lebron, Kobe rarely sat out games with knick knack or even significant injuries. He would play through it. This eventually caught up with him. Whether it was Phil or no Phil, Kobe was going to maybe last 1 more year IMO. Sure D'Antoni's system made it more harder on Kobe to have to create and be more assertive with the way the team was struggling Kobe basically became both a PG/SG in that system. But the way Kobe approached his career, he never took games off to "load manage". Combine that with his insane offseason regime, this more than anything caught up with him. Kobe was also playing Olympics in 2008 2012 etc. 3 NBA Finals runs, 2 Olympics, 2 deep playoff runs, MVP level play 6 straight seasons in his 30s, So basically when did Kobe really rest from age 30-35? The injury was not D'Antoni's fault. I don't agree with this at all, and I still disagree with the hire.
2) Dwight wasn't fully healthy. He has since admitted that he shoud have taken that whole season off and was planning on it, and that he would have had he not been traded to LA where he had a chance to win a ring.
With those above 2 things, even though Phil was the better fit and hire, in the grand scale of things, I don't agree with Jeanie. Looking back, it definitely seems she overlooks a lot of the things that Mitch did right. To me, while I think Jeanie is sharper than her brother, and probably slightly better than him at running things, I don't think she's at all in the 100% right here. She should credit her brother and Mitch for attaining the assets to trade for AD. As for her criticism on their FA moves, that's definitely right. No way you can justify the signings of Deng/Moz to season ticket holders. |
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Outspoken
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Joined: 11 Feb 2015
Posts: 8256
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2023 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| This is still being talked about? Dang. |
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cathy78
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Joined: 21 Jan 2013
Posts: 1406
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2023 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Outspoken wrote: | | This is still being talked about? Dang. |
Seems like. Some still believe that Phil would have change the season from bust to championship. Sure - he might have been better than MDA. But htat is about it... |
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Outspoken
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Joined: 11 Feb 2015
Posts: 8256
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2023 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| cathy78 wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | This is still being talked about? Dang. |
Seems like. Some still believe that Phil would have change the season from bust to championship. Sure - he might have been better than MDA. But htat is about it... |
Right. Phil wasn't even gonna travel road games.
But more so, that was 10 years ago. We gotta move on. |
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SGV-Laker fan
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Joined: 23 May 2013
Posts: 8600
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2023 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| i just don't get this woman, what's the point of bring this up now? it's like last decade stuff. is she still butt hurt that Jimmy Buss went with MDA over her BF? i for one have always onboard with the MDA hiring, but the shadow of Jeannie Buss, Phil Jackson and Lakers old guards prevented MDA the authority to totally implement his system. Kobe was not bought into his system either. had MDA had the complete control of the team and Kobe was onboard, i have to doubt the result would be different, and it might've even prolonged Kobe's career also. |
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CervantesRises
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Joined: 18 Jun 2016
Posts: 3860
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2023 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | i just don't get this woman, what's the point of bring this up now? it's like last decade stuff. is she still butt hurt that Jimmy Buss went with MDA over her BF? i for one have always onboard with the MDA hiring, but the shadow of Jeannie Buss, Phil Jackson and Lakers old guards prevented MDA the authority to totally implement his system. Kobe was not bought into his system either. had MDA had the complete control of the team and Kobe was onboard, i have to doubt the result would be different, and it might've even prolonged Kobe's career also. |
How many rings did MDA's system produce?
Why didn't Kobe buy in? Because Kobe was a terrible judge? Being selfish? Didn't know how to win?
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SGV-Laker fan
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Joined: 23 May 2013
Posts: 8600
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2023 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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| CervantesRises wrote: | | SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | i just don't get this woman, what's the point of bring this up now? it's like last decade stuff. is she still butt hurt that Jimmy Buss went with MDA over her BF? i for one have always onboard with the MDA hiring, but the shadow of Jeannie Buss, Phil Jackson and Lakers old guards prevented MDA the authority to totally implement his system. Kobe was not bought into his system either. had MDA had the complete control of the team and Kobe was onboard, i have to doubt the result would be different, and it might've even prolonged Kobe's career also. |
How many rings did MDA's system produce?
Why didn't Kobe buy in? Because Kobe was a terrible judge? Being selfish? Didn't know how to win? |
go back and read the posts around that time, it was well documented. Kobe's game is iso, no knock on him, he's one of the best ever done that. MDA's sytem in involving a ball dominant pass first PG (Nash) who ochestrate the offense, with a bunch of 3 point shooters spotting up. that's not what Kobe and Pau Gasol's game. |
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Outspoken
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Joined: 11 Feb 2015
Posts: 8256
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2023 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| CervantesRises wrote: | | SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | i just don't get this woman, what's the point of bring this up now? it's like last decade stuff. is she still butt hurt that Jimmy Buss went with MDA over her BF? i for one have always onboard with the MDA hiring, but the shadow of Jeannie Buss, Phil Jackson and Lakers old guards prevented MDA the authority to totally implement his system. Kobe was not bought into his system either. had MDA had the complete control of the team and Kobe was onboard, i have to doubt the result would be different, and it might've even prolonged Kobe's career also. |
How many rings did MDA's system produce?
Why didn't Kobe buy in? Because Kobe was a terrible judge? Being selfish? Didn't know how to win? |
Nobody has a ring, until they get a ring.
It takes talent and a bit of luck.
Doc Rivers has a ring, he's not that good of a coach, but was lucky enough to have coached the Celtics at their modern height. |
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kikanga
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Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 28540
Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2023 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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This tweet is why I spent years on here hating on Jim Buss and MDA.
https://twitter.com/ovolakeshow/status/1724360851300466722
This isn't one of those mistakes only recognized in hindsight. When it was all going down. It was obviously a stupid decision.
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kikanga
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Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 28540
Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2023 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | i just don't get this woman, what's the point of bring this up now? it's like last decade stuff. is she still butt hurt that Jimmy Buss went with MDA over her BF? i for one have always onboard with the MDA hiring, but the shadow of Jeannie Buss, Phil Jackson and Lakers old guards prevented MDA the authority to totally implement his system. Kobe was not bought into his system either. had MDA had the complete control of the team and Kobe was onboard, i have to doubt the result would be different, and it might've even prolonged Kobe's career also. |
MDA couldn't find a way to have + minutes with Kobe off the floor. And he had a roster with Dwight, Pau, and Nash.
Nash broke down immediately after not having whatever fountain of youth elixir they had in PHX.
But both Pau and Dwight were all stars after that season. They weren't washed.
Can't put MDA failing on Kobe. The #s don't back that up.
FWIW, I think once we already screwed the pooch. And went with MDA. Jim Buss really showed how big of an idiot he was when he ditched MDA the same offseason he drafted DLO. Jim and Mitch couldn't match a roster to a coach to save their life.
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Last edited by kikanga on Tue Nov 14, 2023 3:01 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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SGV-Laker fan
Star Player
Joined: 23 May 2013
Posts: 8600
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2023 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| again, why bring this up now? Jeannie wants her 15 mins air time again? do some big trades then, no need to dish out old OLD OLD laundry to the media. |
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2019
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Joined: 03 Dec 2014
Posts: 10594
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2023 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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She should be upset about it.. embarrassed the GOAT coach, destroyed Kobe by playing 45 mpg, Pau never fit, Dwight walked due to fit/role, prevented what could be been a Lakers (Kobe) vs Heart (LeBron) series, etc etc.
D12,
Pau, Jamison
Ron
Kobe,
Nash
I mean, that roster screams Phil Jackson.
Fun to talk about 10 years later seeing how everything played out. |
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JustaObserver
Star Player
Joined: 20 May 2017
Posts: 2267
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2023 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| 2019 wrote: | She should be upset about it.. embarrassed the GOAT coach, destroyed Kobe by playing 45 mpg, Pau never fit, Dwight walked due to fit/role, prevented what could be been a Lakers (Kobe) vs Heart (LeBron) series, etc etc.
D12,
Pau, Jamison
Ron
Kobe,
Nash
I mean, that roster screams Phil Jackson.
Fun to talk about 10 years later seeing how everything played out. |
Why is this trash being brought up again?
Phil the greatest of all time coach..man please..sTOP..how many rebuilt teams he coach?..Ill wait
Why didnt he come down stairs when the Knicks looked like trash under derick Fisher? Hmmmm? ILLL WAIT!!!
He would not have made no difference..Also here is another question...How many rings under Jim Buss was goten?
THESE Stupid rosey glasses revision history stuff got to stop |
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2019
Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Dec 2014
Posts: 10594
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2023 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| JustaObserver wrote: | | 2019 wrote: | She should be upset about it.. embarrassed the GOAT coach, destroyed Kobe by playing 45 mpg, Pau never fit, Dwight walked due to fit/role, prevented what could be been a Lakers (Kobe) vs Heart (LeBron) series, etc etc.
D12,
Pau, Jamison
Ron
Kobe,
Nash
I mean, that roster screams Phil Jackson.
Fun to talk about 10 years later seeing how everything played out. |
Why is this trash being brought up again?
Phil the greatest of all time coach..man please..sTOP..how many rebuilt teams he coach?..Ill wait
Why didnt he come down stairs when the Knicks looked like trash under derick Fisher? Hmmmm? ILLL WAIT!!!
He would not have made no difference..Also here is another question...How many rings under Jim Buss was goten?
THESE Stupid rosey glasses revision history stuff got to stop |
What a sweetheart you are |
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dont_be_a_wuss
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Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Posts: 21111
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2023 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Outspoken wrote: | | cathy78 wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | This is still being talked about? Dang. |
Seems like. Some still believe that Phil would have change the season from bust to championship. Sure - he might have been better than MDA. But htat is about it... |
Right. Phil wasn't even gonna travel road games.
But more so, that was 10 years ago. We gotta move on. |
Haven’t Phil and Jeannie both said the road games thing was false? |
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pjiddy
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Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 28694
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2023 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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The triangle offense was already painfully outdated at this point and Phil’s coaching wouldn’t have prevented Nash getting hurt nor prevented Kobe playing too many minutes.
Either way it was a doomed team. |
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TDRock
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Joined: 27 May 2010
Posts: 45791
Location: LA to the Bay
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2023 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Outspoken wrote: | | This is still being talked about? Dang. |
My reaction exactly. I mean I assume they asked her about this and she didn't just rando bring this up. But still.
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Outspoken
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Joined: 11 Feb 2015
Posts: 8256
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2023 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds like you needed to find a constructive hobby if sports caused you to hate on someone for years. |
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Treble Clef
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Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 22802
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2023 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | cathy78 wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | This is still being talked about? Dang. |
Seems like. Some still believe that Phil would have change the season from bust to championship. Sure - he might have been better than MDA. But htat is about it... |
Right. Phil wasn't even gonna travel road games.
But more so, that was 10 years ago. We gotta move on. |
Haven’t Phil and Jeannie both said the road games thing was false? |
I seem to remember him using creative language when asked about it. The shifty way he responded to those questions made me think every rumor about his demands was true. |
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JUST-MING
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 43210
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2023 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| I'd be more interested in Jeanie's comments in regards to Jim firing Phil in 2004, hiring Rudy T, Mitch trading Gary and Shaq, etc. |
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MJST
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Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 24379
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2023 10:04 am Post subject: |
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Triangle Offense was outdated by then as a primary concept.
MDA's style was about to take over the league.
The Lakers wound up 3 years behind the rest of the league by firing MDA and hiring Byron Scott.
Phil wasn't going to even travel road games and it would have just added to more ridiculousness over the season.
Mitch got plenty of unjust hate for it.
Instead of pissing and moaning about Phil, more people should focus on the fact Mike Brown was unjustly fired.
Jeanie has to learn to let crap go and not be petty for once in her life. Her pettiness has cost the franchise too but nobody wishes to call her out on it.
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SGV-Laker fan
Star Player
Joined: 23 May 2013
Posts: 8600
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2023 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | Triangle Offense was outdated by then as a primary concept.
MDA's style was about to take over the league.
The Lakers wound up 3 years behind the rest of the league by firing MDA and hiring Byron Scott.
Phil wasn't going to even travel road games and it would have just added to more ridiculousness over the season.
Mitch got plenty of unjust hate for it.
Instead of pissing and moaning about Phil, more people should focus on the fact Mike Brown was unjustly fired.
Jeanie has to learn to let crap go and not be petty for once in her life. Her pettiness has cost the franchise too but nobody wishes to call her out on it. |
exactly, not bagging on Kobe, but for someone his statue and his basketball skillset, he could easily embrace the MDA system, and the rest of the team would follow suit. |
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GOODRICH25
Star Player
Joined: 17 Jun 2017
Posts: 3337
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2023 10:50 am Post subject: |
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The team was banged up. Phil or no Phil, we aren't winning that year unless Phil somehow has them all at 100% come playoffs
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