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LakerFan1987
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2024 10:20 am    Post subject:

Kobetan wrote:
Anyone knows why he dropped to #17? His skill set and size should be quite sought after.

His age? Lack of defensive highlight reels??


He was 23 and played 5 yrs of college ball. The NBA is all about youth and maximum potential.

Thank you NBA because we just got a 10 yr stud for the Lakers.

We're just lucky we will have Knecht for 4 years on a rookie deal.
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BILBJH
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2024 10:26 am    Post subject:

Lucky_Shot wrote:
BandwagonLBJhopper wrote:
Denny_Russo wrote:
Kobetan wrote:
Anyone knows why he dropped to #17? His skill set and size should be quite sought after.

His age? Lack of defensive highlight reels??


Top 10 is basically high ceiling prospects, although I don't always agree with it. It's why Hart dropped to 30th back in 2017 even though he was super NBA ready.

Funny because Knecht was projected to go top 10 in many reputable mocks, but teams wanted MAH POTENTIAL.

Sucks for the Pels too because it looks like they'll be getting a late pick next year.


Crazy that the Pels STILL own one of our picks. Lawd that trade was a lifetime ago, they really tried to cripple any ability to improve the roster.


I wouldn't say it crippled us since we got AD out of it. You have to give up the farm for him..

We won that trade, and I would do it again if another similar chance comes up in the future


AD was going to be a free agent.

You know what makes the Dodgers great? They waited for Ohtani and signed him for free, instead of trading half of their team.

Doesn't take away from Ohtani's greatness, just like it wouldn't take away from AD's greatness, but you don't make trades like this if you are an intelligently run team.

I can agree the version of AD that we've seen the last two years is worth a lot. And he's by far the best player in the trade.

But BI just scored 33 in the season opener and won the next game. He outplayed Zion again.

Josh Hart is a starter on one of the best teams in the East. He just put up 20 and 10.

Lonzo was crucial to Chicago's success before he got injured.

We gave up a fourth overall that would have likely been Klutch client Garland who is part of Cleveland's resurgence.

We gave up the pick that became Dyson Daniels.

And we still have to pay another first round.

When Bron and Rich could have just convinced AD to wait like Friedman did to get Ohtani.

So sure you can say AD is the best thing in the trade, but you don't give up resources like this when you can get him for free.

It was stupid and it took a lot of work by Rob to get us back to this position.
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levon
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2024 10:43 am    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
BandwagonLBJhopper wrote:
Denny_Russo wrote:
Kobetan wrote:
Anyone knows why he dropped to #17? His skill set and size should be quite sought after.

His age? Lack of defensive highlight reels??


Top 10 is basically high ceiling prospects, although I don't always agree with it. It's why Hart dropped to 30th back in 2017 even though he was super NBA ready.

Funny because Knecht was projected to go top 10 in many reputable mocks, but teams wanted MAH POTENTIAL.

Sucks for the Pels too because it looks like they'll be getting a late pick next year.


Crazy that the Pels STILL own one of our picks. Lawd that trade was a lifetime ago, they really tried to cripple any ability to improve the roster.


I wouldn't say it crippled us since we got AD out of it. You have to give up the farm for him..

We won that trade, and I would do it again if another similar chance comes up in the future


AD was going to be a free agent.

You know what makes the Dodgers great? They waited for Ohtani and signed him for free, instead of trading half of their team.

Doesn't take away from Ohtani's greatness, just like it wouldn't take away from AD's greatness, but you don't make trades like this if you are an intelligently run team.

I can agree the version of AD that we've seen the last two years is worth a lot. And he's by far the best player in the trade.

But BI just scored 33 in the season opener and won the next game. He outplayed Zion again.

Josh Hart is a starter on one of the best teams in the East. He just put up 20 and 10.

Lonzo was crucial to Chicago's success before he got injured.

We gave up a fourth overall that would have likely been Klutch client Garland who is part of Cleveland's resurgence.

We gave up the pick that became Dyson Daniels.

And we still have to pay another first round.

When Bron and Rich could have just convinced AD to wait like Friedman did to get Ohtani.

So sure you can say AD is the best thing in the trade, but you don't give up resources like this when you can get him for free.

It was stupid and it took a lot of work by Rob to get us back to this position.

Putting aside the fact that we won the first year of AD and those circumstances might be totally different in 2021, this doesn't even make sense from a salary cap perspective. We'd have to renounce FA to fit AD to his max. The trade allowed us to both absorb AD and carve out space for others. You making the Ohtani comp is apropos. I'm sure if the Lakers didn't have to deal with a salary cap, they wouldn't have traded valuable assets for someone they can just add. The Lakers would basically be an all-star team.

Also, no one should be losing sleep over Brandon Ingram. But even if you take the best case outcome of every pick and player we traded, you know we wouldn't have been able to pay them all right? And all the while you'd be leaving LeBron without a second costar. You'd max be able to pay Lebron, AD, and BI as your third guy, then merry minimums. That's not a championship team.
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BILBJH
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2024 10:49 am    Post subject:

levon wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
BandwagonLBJhopper wrote:
Denny_Russo wrote:
Kobetan wrote:
Anyone knows why he dropped to #17? His skill set and size should be quite sought after.

His age? Lack of defensive highlight reels??


Top 10 is basically high ceiling prospects, although I don't always agree with it. It's why Hart dropped to 30th back in 2017 even though he was super NBA ready.

Funny because Knecht was projected to go top 10 in many reputable mocks, but teams wanted MAH POTENTIAL.

Sucks for the Pels too because it looks like they'll be getting a late pick next year.


Crazy that the Pels STILL own one of our picks. Lawd that trade was a lifetime ago, they really tried to cripple any ability to improve the roster.


I wouldn't say it crippled us since we got AD out of it. You have to give up the farm for him..

We won that trade, and I would do it again if another similar chance comes up in the future


AD was going to be a free agent.

You know what makes the Dodgers great? They waited for Ohtani and signed him for free, instead of trading half of their team.

Doesn't take away from Ohtani's greatness, just like it wouldn't take away from AD's greatness, but you don't make trades like this if you are an intelligently run team.

I can agree the version of AD that we've seen the last two years is worth a lot. And he's by far the best player in the trade.

But BI just scored 33 in the season opener and won the next game. He outplayed Zion again.

Josh Hart is a starter on one of the best teams in the East. He just put up 20 and 10.

Lonzo was crucial to Chicago's success before he got injured.

We gave up a fourth overall that would have likely been Klutch client Garland who is part of Cleveland's resurgence.

We gave up the pick that became Dyson Daniels.

And we still have to pay another first round.

When Bron and Rich could have just convinced AD to wait like Friedman did to get Ohtani.

So sure you can say AD is the best thing in the trade, but you don't give up resources like this when you can get him for free.

It was stupid and it took a lot of work by Rob to get us back to this position.

Putting aside the fact that we won the first year of AD and those circumstances might be totally different in 2021, this doesn't even make sense from a salary cap perspective. We'd have to renounce FA to fit AD to his max. The trade allowed us to both absorb AD and carve out space for others. You making the Ohtani comp is apropos. I'm sure if the Lakers didn't have to deal with a salary cap, they wouldn't have traded valuable assets for someone they can just add. The Lakers would basically be an all-star team.

Also, no one should be losing sleep over Brandon Ingram. But even if you take the best case outcome of every pick and player we traded, you know we wouldn't have been able to pay them all right? And all the while you'd be leaving LeBron without a second costar. You'd max be able to pay Lebron, AD, and BI as your third guy, then merry minimums. That's not a championship team.


You take each of those players and trade them for more cost controlled assets and picks which is what Oklahoma City would have done.

I'm not against trading mid level stars for cheaper players.

My point is that we gave up too much and I'm tired of people who don't understand business who keep saying "I'd do it again"

Of course you acquire AD. But how you do it matters.
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LakerFan1987
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2024 10:55 am    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
BandwagonLBJhopper wrote:
Denny_Russo wrote:
Kobetan wrote:
Anyone knows why he dropped to #17? His skill set and size should be quite sought after.

His age? Lack of defensive highlight reels??


Top 10 is basically high ceiling prospects, although I don't always agree with it. It's why Hart dropped to 30th back in 2017 even though he was super NBA ready.

Funny because Knecht was projected to go top 10 in many reputable mocks, but teams wanted MAH POTENTIAL.

Sucks for the Pels too because it looks like they'll be getting a late pick next year.


Crazy that the Pels STILL own one of our picks. Lawd that trade was a lifetime ago, they really tried to cripple any ability to improve the roster.


I wouldn't say it crippled us since we got AD out of it. You have to give up the farm for him..

We won that trade, and I would do it again if another similar chance comes up in the future


AD was going to be a free agent.

You know what makes the Dodgers great? They waited for Ohtani and signed him for free, instead of trading half of their team.

Doesn't take away from Ohtani's greatness, just like it wouldn't take away from AD's greatness, but you don't make trades like this if you are an intelligently run team.

I can agree the version of AD that we've seen the last two years is worth a lot. And he's by far the best player in the trade.

But BI just scored 33 in the season opener and won the next game. He outplayed Zion again.

Josh Hart is a starter on one of the best teams in the East. He just put up 20 and 10.

Lonzo was crucial to Chicago's success before he got injured.

We gave up a fourth overall that would have likely been Klutch client Garland who is part of Cleveland's resurgence.

We gave up the pick that became Dyson Daniels.

And we still have to pay another first round.

When Bron and Rich could have just convinced AD to wait like Friedman did to get Ohtani.

So sure you can say AD is the best thing in the trade, but you don't give up resources like this when you can get him for free.

It was stupid and it took a lot of work by Rob to get us back to this position.


What a great comparison Ohtani and AD ... oh yeah there's this thing called a Salary Cap

So how do you suppose we keep AD, Bron, Ingram, Hart, Lonzo ... $300M team salary?
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BILBJH
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2024 11:05 am    Post subject:

LakerFan1987 wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
BandwagonLBJhopper wrote:
Denny_Russo wrote:
Kobetan wrote:
Anyone knows why he dropped to #17? His skill set and size should be quite sought after.

His age? Lack of defensive highlight reels??


Top 10 is basically high ceiling prospects, although I don't always agree with it. It's why Hart dropped to 30th back in 2017 even though he was super NBA ready.

Funny because Knecht was projected to go top 10 in many reputable mocks, but teams wanted MAH POTENTIAL.

Sucks for the Pels too because it looks like they'll be getting a late pick next year.


Crazy that the Pels STILL own one of our picks. Lawd that trade was a lifetime ago, they really tried to cripple any ability to improve the roster.


I wouldn't say it crippled us since we got AD out of it. You have to give up the farm for him..

We won that trade, and I would do it again if another similar chance comes up in the future


AD was going to be a free agent.

You know what makes the Dodgers great? They waited for Ohtani and signed him for free, instead of trading half of their team.

Doesn't take away from Ohtani's greatness, just like it wouldn't take away from AD's greatness, but you don't make trades like this if you are an intelligently run team.

I can agree the version of AD that we've seen the last two years is worth a lot. And he's by far the best player in the trade.

But BI just scored 33 in the season opener and won the next game. He outplayed Zion again.

Josh Hart is a starter on one of the best teams in the East. He just put up 20 and 10.

Lonzo was crucial to Chicago's success before he got injured.

We gave up a fourth overall that would have likely been Klutch client Garland who is part of Cleveland's resurgence.

We gave up the pick that became Dyson Daniels.

And we still have to pay another first round.

When Bron and Rich could have just convinced AD to wait like Friedman did to get Ohtani.

So sure you can say AD is the best thing in the trade, but you don't give up resources like this when you can get him for free.

It was stupid and it took a lot of work by Rob to get us back to this position.


What a great comparison Ohtani and AD ... oh yeah there's this thing called a Salary Cap

So how do you suppose we keep AD, Bron, Ingram, Hart, Lonzo ... $300M team salary?


I just explained that I would have traded them for picks as their cost control expired.

I loved those guys but I wasn't against trading them.

I was against wasting so many assets for a player who going to be a free agent.

I hated the Westbrook trade too.

Just a terrible waste of LeBron's window.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2024 11:08 am    Post subject:

The Lakers gave up too much for AD is the dumbest take that keeps getting repeated.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2024 11:17 am    Post subject:

manlisten wrote:
The Lakers gave up too much for AD is the dumbest take that keeps getting repeated.


Both can be true at the same time.

Lakers did give up too many picks IMO.

But acquiring AD was also necessary.

I think there's merit to the argument that Rob was bidding against himself.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2024 11:22 am    Post subject:

Denny_Russo wrote:
manlisten wrote:
The Lakers gave up too much for AD is the dumbest take that keeps getting repeated.


Both can be true at the same time.

Lakers did give up too much.

But acquiring AD was also necessary.


What's funny is these people are so intent on winning a four year old argument that they don't even realize that I'm on their side.

I wanted to maximize a return on investment.

But it's more important they win the argument so they just keep on with the same one sentence retorts without using a sliver of logic.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2024 11:42 am    Post subject:

Denny_Russo wrote:
manlisten wrote:
The Lakers gave up too much for AD is the dumbest take that keeps getting repeated.


Both can be true at the same time.

Lakers did give up too many picks IMO.

But acquiring AD was also necessary.

I think there's merit to the argument that Rob was bidding against himself.


We also have to remember at the time Lebron was coming off his longest time off due to injury in his career. He also had just turned 35, everyone was worried the wheels could fall off at any moment and didn’t wanna waste another year.

We didn’t know Lebron would still be this good for the next few years (though injuries have caught up to him)
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2024 11:46 am    Post subject:

Denny_Russo wrote:
manlisten wrote:
The Lakers gave up too much for AD is the dumbest take that keeps getting repeated.


Both can be true at the same time.

Lakers did give up too many picks IMO.

But acquiring AD was also necessary.

I think there's merit to the argument that Rob was bidding against himself.


There is an argument.

The biggest mistake was letting go of our young talent and those we should have held onto which could have been used in a trade with AD.

If the Lakers had DLO/Lonzo/Ingram/Randle/Kuzma/Hart on the team when they were going after AD they very likely would have been able to keep more young talent left over and kept more of their picks. Like maybe we don't lose Ingram in that trade, or maybe we could have combined Randle and Kuzma and some picks to get AD.

But back on the topic, I am glad we have Knecht! And one of the other picks we lost in that trade is currently on the team in Jaxson Hayes.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2024 12:06 pm    Post subject:

^ Not quite. Ingram/Zo/Kuzma/Hart were still on the team at the start of the AD off-season. Russell was gone but he got traded for Brook Lopez and a pick that got us Kuzma so there's no reality where Russell and Kuzma were still on the team together.

The only player we lost for nothing was Randle. Ingram/Zo/Hart was used to get AD. Russell was used to get Kuzma. Kuzma was still on the team when we got AD and started (albeit terrible in the playoffs) for the 2020 championship team.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2024 12:07 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
^ Not quite. Ingram/Zo/Kuzma/Hart were still on the team. Russell was gone but he got traded for a Lopez and a pick that got us Kuzma so there's no reality where Russell and Kuzma were still on the team together.

The only player we lost for nothing was Randle. Ingram/Zo/Hart was used to get AD. Russell was used to get Kuzma. Kuzma was still on the team when we got AD and started (albeit terrible in the playoffs) for the 2020 championship team.


We were the next pick and the Nets weren't scouting Kuzma. We still would have drafted Kuzma because our pick was the very next one after the one we wound up getting in DLO trade so yeah.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2024 12:10 pm    Post subject:

The Lakers gave up so much that the Pelicans have won a total of 2 playoff games since the trade. In addition to a swap that never conveyed and the last pick owed which is currently looking like it will be at the bottom of the 1st round.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2024 12:14 pm    Post subject:

manlisten wrote:
The Lakers gave up so much that the Pelicans have won a total of 2 playoff games since the trade. In addition to a swap that never conveyed and the last pick owed which is currently looking like it will be at the bottom of the 1st round.


We need to make it pick 30
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2024 2:34 pm    Post subject:

Dalton "Always Ready" Knecht.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2024 2:35 pm    Post subject:

should have getting more minutes than Max and DLo.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2024 2:38 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Denny_Russo wrote:
manlisten wrote:
The Lakers gave up too much for AD is the dumbest take that keeps getting repeated.


Both can be true at the same time.

Lakers did give up too many picks IMO.

But acquiring AD was also necessary.

I think there's merit to the argument that Rob was bidding against himself.


There is an argument.

The biggest mistake was letting go of our young talent and those we should have held onto which could have been used in a trade with AD.

If the Lakers had DLO/Lonzo/Ingram/Randle/Kuzma/Hart on the team when they were going after AD they very likely would have been able to keep more young talent left over and kept more of their picks. Like maybe we don't lose Ingram in that trade, or maybe we could have combined Randle and Kuzma and some picks to get AD.

But back on the topic, I am glad we have Knecht! And one of the other picks we lost in that trade is currently on the team in Jaxson Hayes.


The biggest mistake was letting go or AC and KCP for westbrook like what the Nuggets are doing this season, they let go Brown last season and let go of KCP this season then sign Westbrook lol
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2024 6:16 am    Post subject:

manlisten wrote:
The Lakers gave up too much for AD is the dumbest take that keeps getting repeated.


Honestly, the dumbest take was that some people actually think it is not. I don't necessarily agree with the Ohtani take. I see where that is going and to a degree I think it would have been better than what Pelinka did. What isn't being mentioned here was that there were no other bidders for Davis, yet we still found ourselves out-bidding... ourselves. Bottom line: Those drafts picks we threw in should never have been included. Giving up 3 lottery picks (Ingram, Ball and the current pick that year), plus Hart was more than enough to get Davis, since there was no other offers on the table.

Us giving away multiple future draft picks was just disastrous and avoidable.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2024 7:49 am    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
^ Not quite. Ingram/Zo/Kuzma/Hart were still on the team at the start of the AD off-season. Russell was gone but he got traded for Brook Lopez and a pick that got us Kuzma so there's no reality where Russell and Kuzma were still on the team together.

The only player we lost for nothing was Randle. Ingram/Zo/Hart was used to get AD. Russell was used to get Kuzma. Kuzma was still on the team when we got AD and started (albeit terrible in the playoffs) for the 2020 championship team.


We lost Zubac, Randle, and Lopez for nothing. Lopez signed for like the VM for the Bucks. I will never understand why the Lakers showed no interest in resigning him. Randle, I can understand (not agree), he was a bad roster fit. Lopez though???? Just one of the many cases Pelinka has shown he doesn't know ball.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2024 7:59 am    Post subject:

Big Game James wrote:
manlisten wrote:
The Lakers gave up too much for AD is the dumbest take that keeps getting repeated.


Honestly, the dumbest take was that some people actually think it is not. I don't necessarily agree with the Ohtani take. I see where that is going and to a degree I think it would have been better than what Pelinka did. What isn't being mentioned here was that there were no other bidders for Davis, yet we still found ourselves out-bidding... ourselves. Bottom line: Those drafts picks we threw in should never have been included. Giving up 3 lottery picks (Ingram, Ball and the current pick that year), plus Hart was more than enough to get Davis, since there was no other offers on the table.

Us giving away multiple future draft picks was just disastrous and avoidable.


"no other bidders for Davis" might be confused with he wanted to come to LA. Almost every team in the league would want Davis.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2024 9:05 am    Post subject:

dcarter4kobe wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
^ Not quite. Ingram/Zo/Kuzma/Hart were still on the team at the start of the AD off-season. Russell was gone but he got traded for Brook Lopez and a pick that got us Kuzma so there's no reality where Russell and Kuzma were still on the team together.

The only player we lost for nothing was Randle. Ingram/Zo/Hart was used to get AD. Russell was used to get Kuzma. Kuzma was still on the team when we got AD and started (albeit terrible in the playoffs) for the 2020 championship team.


We lost Zubac, Randle, and Lopez for nothing. Lopez signed for like the VM for the Bucks. I will never understand why the Lakers showed no interest in resigning him. Randle, I can understand (not agree), he was a bad roster fit. Lopez though???? Just one of the many cases Pelinka has shown he doesn't know ball.


Don't forget the FRP for a one year rental of Schroder.

FRP, KCP and Kuz for Westbrook, and we all know how that turned out...

Another underrated loss was Mo Wagner, who can give you a solid 15-20 minutes off the bench as a backup big. He'd be an upgrade over Hayes and Wood.

And then drafting JHS when Whitmore, Podz and Jaquez Jr were still available.

Asset after asset flubbed because of pure and utter incompetence. If Knecht didn't fall to the Lakers, it would be pandemonium.

Rob is lucky AD managed to stay relatively healthy these last few seasons. Otherwise there would be protests outside of Crypt arena.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2024 10:46 am    Post subject:

dcarter4kobe wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
^ Not quite. Ingram/Zo/Kuzma/Hart were still on the team at the start of the AD off-season. Russell was gone but he got traded for Brook Lopez and a pick that got us Kuzma so there's no reality where Russell and Kuzma were still on the team together.

The only player we lost for nothing was Randle. Ingram/Zo/Hart was used to get AD. Russell was used to get Kuzma. Kuzma was still on the team when we got AD and started (albeit terrible in the playoffs) for the 2020 championship team.


We lost Zubac, Randle, and Lopez for nothing. Lopez signed for like the VM for the Bucks. I will never understand why the Lakers showed no interest in resigning him. Randle, I can understand (not agree), he was a bad roster fit. Lopez though???? Just one of the many cases Pelinka has shown he doesn't know ball.


Neither BroLo nor Randle wanted to come back. The team was a (bleep) show under Luke, which pissed off Brook, and Julius didn't think he would get minutes with LBJ here.
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rmonkey
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2024 10:59 am    Post subject:

Has anyone seen the Dalton Knecht thread? It used to be around here somewhere.
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dcarter4kobe
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2024 11:25 am    Post subject:

Dr. Laker wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
^ Not quite. Ingram/Zo/Kuzma/Hart were still on the team at the start of the AD off-season. Russell was gone but he got traded for Brook Lopez and a pick that got us Kuzma so there's no reality where Russell and Kuzma were still on the team together.

The only player we lost for nothing was Randle. Ingram/Zo/Hart was used to get AD. Russell was used to get Kuzma. Kuzma was still on the team when we got AD and started (albeit terrible in the playoffs) for the 2020 championship team.


We lost Zubac, Randle, and Lopez for nothing. Lopez signed for like the VM for the Bucks. I will never understand why the Lakers showed no interest in resigning him. Randle, I can understand (not agree), he was a bad roster fit. Lopez though???? Just one of the many cases Pelinka has shown he doesn't know ball.


Neither BroLo nor Randle wanted to come back. The team was a (bleep) show under Luke, which pissed off Brook, and Julius didn't think he would get minutes with LBJ here.

Never saw that on Lopez and Magic owned up to it being his mistake
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