Joined: 17 Jun 2003 Posts: 6320 Location: Central Coast
Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2024 6:30 pm Post subject: Really good Laker players, who played for MLE level money
One of the Laker biggest hit and misses, as I can remember over my 50+ years of following the Lakers is our inability to have good value from the MLE players we have signed.
Back in the day before there was no such a thing as MLE, we had the Showtime Lakers, all our starters were great (we went forever trying to have a good starting PF) When we got Mychal Thompson, I remember thinking that was a guy we probably were not paying a lot of money for, who gave us a lot of value.
My definition of a good MLE player is:
Available to play - not injured
10 points per game or better scoring average
5 rebounds or 5 assists per game OR
3.5 rebounds & assists per game for a scoring type guard or tweener forward.
Helps the team win, not just a stat. padder on a bad team.
I remember how we missed out on Deaven George for the MLE and that caused us a lot of trouble. Sasha Vu. got the MLE and didn't really live up to it. Luke Walton I think made $5.9 million on an MLE contract, and probably is the best fit for my criteria above: not flashy or great, but available and putting up reasonable stats. that helped the team. Vlade the Impaler ended up being a poor fit. Trevor Ariza, was he an MLE player?
Vincent and AR are probably the closest things we currently have to MLE money level players. AR I think is a good value, hopefully Vincent gives us something this year.
To date, I'd say Luke Walton and AR are the best MLE money range players the Ls have had.
Who do you think the Lakers have gotten the best value from over the years over the years with MLE money? _________________ LAKERS 2019-2020: NBA World Champions!
Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2024 6:57 pm Post subject: Re: Really good Laker players, who played for MLE level money
waterman40 wrote:
One of the Laker biggest hit and misses, as I can remember over my 50+ years of following the Lakers is our inability to have good value from the MLE players we have signed.
Back in the day before there was no such a thing as MLE, we had the Showtime Lakers, all our starters were great (we went forever trying to have a good starting PF) When we got Mychal Thompson, I remember thinking that was a guy we probably were not paying a lot of money for, who gave us a lot of value.
My definition of a good MLE player is:
Available to play - not injured
10 points per game or better scoring average
5 rebounds or 5 assists per game OR
3.5 rebounds & assists per game for a scoring type guard or tweener forward.
Helps the team win, not just a stat. padder on a bad team.
I remember how we missed out on Deaven George for the MLE and that caused us a lot of trouble. Sasha Vu. got the MLE and didn't really live up to it. Luke Walton I think made $5.9 million on an MLE contract, and probably is the best fit for my criteria above: not flashy or great, but available and putting up reasonable stats. that helped the team. Vlade the Impaler ended up being a poor fit. Trevor Ariza, was he an MLE player?
Vincent and AR are probably the closest things we currently have to MLE money level players. AR I think is a good value, hopefully Vincent gives us something this year.
To date, I'd say Luke Walton and AR are the best MLE money range players the Ls have had.
Who do you think the Lakers have gotten the best value from over the years over the years with MLE money?
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 36530 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2024 7:46 pm Post subject:
Ariza wasn’t an MLE player. We traded Maurice Evans and Brian Cook for him midway through the 07-08 season, then he injured his foot. We really only had him for the 08-09 season. His agent rejected our offer of 4 years, 32 million, so Mitch signed Ron Artest instead and Ariza signed a five year, 34 million dollar contract with the Rockets instead. We theoretically could have had both. Or re-signed Ariza and used the MLE on Jarrett Jack instead.
Matt Barnes was a pretty good signing for a fraction of the MLE.
When we re-signed KCP to a multi year deal after his initial one year high paid stint as cap filler, it was somewhat more than MLE money but close to it. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
Joined: 17 Jun 2003 Posts: 6320 Location: Central Coast
Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2024 11:26 pm Post subject: Re: Really good Laker players, who played for MLE level money
1995Lakers wrote:
waterman40 wrote:
One of the Laker biggest hit and misses, as I can remember over my 50+ years of following the Lakers is our inability to have good value from the MLE players we have signed.
Back in the day before there was no such a thing as MLE, we had the Showtime Lakers, all our starters were great (we went forever trying to have a good starting PF) When we got Mychal Thompson, I remember thinking that was a guy we probably were not paying a lot of money for, who gave us a lot of value.
My definition of a good MLE player is:
Available to play - not injured
10 points per game or better scoring average
5 rebounds or 5 assists per game OR
3.5 rebounds & assists per game for a scoring type guard or tweener forward.
Helps the team win, not just a stat. padder on a bad team.
I remember how we missed out on Deaven George for the MLE and that caused us a lot of trouble. Sasha Vu. got the MLE and didn't really live up to it. Luke Walton I think made $5.9 million on an MLE contract, and probably is the best fit for my criteria above: not flashy or great, but available and putting up reasonable stats. that helped the team. Vlade the Impaler ended up being a poor fit. Trevor Ariza, was he an MLE player?
Vincent and AR are probably the closest things we currently have to MLE money level players. AR I think is a good value, hopefully Vincent gives us something this year.
To date, I'd say Luke Walton and AR are the best MLE money range players the Ls have had.
Who do you think the Lakers have gotten the best value from over the years over the years with MLE money?
Ron Artest
Gary Payton
Bagel
I remember Artest being an MLE player, and he helped get us another ring for Kobe. Didn't Gary Payton come with Malone for Veterans minimum?
Bagel? Steve Blake. aka Steve Black? He played hard, but man the guy could not score... _________________ LAKERS 2019-2020: NBA World Champions!
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 36530 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2024 12:16 am Post subject: Re: Really good Laker players, who played for MLE level money
waterman40 wrote:
1995Lakers wrote:
waterman40 wrote:
One of the Laker biggest hit and misses, as I can remember over my 50+ years of following the Lakers is our inability to have good value from the MLE players we have signed.
Back in the day before there was no such a thing as MLE, we had the Showtime Lakers, all our starters were great (we went forever trying to have a good starting PF) When we got Mychal Thompson, I remember thinking that was a guy we probably were not paying a lot of money for, who gave us a lot of value.
My definition of a good MLE player is:
Available to play - not injured
10 points per game or better scoring average
5 rebounds or 5 assists per game OR
3.5 rebounds & assists per game for a scoring type guard or tweener forward.
Helps the team win, not just a stat. padder on a bad team.
I remember how we missed out on Deaven George for the MLE and that caused us a lot of trouble. Sasha Vu. got the MLE and didn't really live up to it. Luke Walton I think made $5.9 million on an MLE contract, and probably is the best fit for my criteria above: not flashy or great, but available and putting up reasonable stats. that helped the team. Vlade the Impaler ended up being a poor fit. Trevor Ariza, was he an MLE player?
Vincent and AR are probably the closest things we currently have to MLE money level players. AR I think is a good value, hopefully Vincent gives us something this year.
To date, I'd say Luke Walton and AR are the best MLE money range players the Ls have had.
Who do you think the Lakers have gotten the best value from over the years over the years with MLE money?
Ron Artest
Gary Payton
Bagel
I remember Artest being an MLE player, and he helped get us another ring for Kobe. Didn't Gary Payton come with Malone for Veterans minimum?
Bagel? Steve Blake. aka Steve Black? He played hard, but man the guy could not score...
Payton got the MLE; Malone got the Biannual Exception. Blake and Matt Barnes split the MLE, with Blake getting the significantly bigger portion.
Blake was trash. 4.0 ppg on 35.9% from the field in his first season with us. 5.2 ppg in his second season under Mike Brown, and then missed a wide open offer three in the playoffs against OKC on the last shot of the game (as opposed to letting Kobe take it), causing us to go down 3-1 instead of being tied 2-2.
People might have overly fond memories of him because of that Steve Black meme on here. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2024 11:36 am Post subject: Re: Really good Laker players, who played for MLE level money
CandyCanes wrote:
waterman40 wrote:
1995Lakers wrote:
waterman40 wrote:
One of the Laker biggest hit and misses, as I can remember over my 50+ years of following the Lakers is our inability to have good value from the MLE players we have signed.
Back in the day before there was no such a thing as MLE, we had the Showtime Lakers, all our starters were great (we went forever trying to have a good starting PF) When we got Mychal Thompson, I remember thinking that was a guy we probably were not paying a lot of money for, who gave us a lot of value.
My definition of a good MLE player is:
Available to play - not injured
10 points per game or better scoring average
5 rebounds or 5 assists per game OR
3.5 rebounds & assists per game for a scoring type guard or tweener forward.
Helps the team win, not just a stat. padder on a bad team.
I remember how we missed out on Deaven George for the MLE and that caused us a lot of trouble. Sasha Vu. got the MLE and didn't really live up to it. Luke Walton I think made $5.9 million on an MLE contract, and probably is the best fit for my criteria above: not flashy or great, but available and putting up reasonable stats. that helped the team. Vlade the Impaler ended up being a poor fit. Trevor Ariza, was he an MLE player?
Vincent and AR are probably the closest things we currently have to MLE money level players. AR I think is a good value, hopefully Vincent gives us something this year.
To date, I'd say Luke Walton and AR are the best MLE money range players the Ls have had.
Who do you think the Lakers have gotten the best value from over the years over the years with MLE money?
Ron Artest
Gary Payton
Bagel
I remember Artest being an MLE player, and he helped get us another ring for Kobe. Didn't Gary Payton come with Malone for Veterans minimum?
Bagel? Steve Blake. aka Steve Black? He played hard, but man the guy could not score...
Payton got the MLE; Malone got the Biannual Exception. Blake and Matt Barnes split the MLE, with Blake getting the significantly bigger portion.
Blake was trash. 4.0 ppg on 35.9% from the field in his first season with us. 5.2 ppg in his second season under Mike Brown, and then missed a wide open offer three in the playoffs against OKC on the last shot of the game (as opposed to letting Kobe take it), causing us to go down 3-1 instead of being tied 2-2.
People might have overly fond memories of him because of that Steve Black meme on here.
Bagel sucked major ass.....I threw him in there for the hell of it....I mean come on his name is Bagel for a reason. Lots of 0's in his statline. Like a white even (bleep) version of Fisher
Signings using the MLE (non and taxpayer) over the last three seasons (cut off for lower $ signings where the exception was broken up):
2022-23
Danilo Gallinari (Boston)
JaVale McGee (Dallas)
Bruce Brown (Denver)
John Wall (LA Clips)
Lonnie Walker (LA Lakers)
Caleb Martin (Miami)
Joe Ingles (Milwaukee)
Kyle Anderson (Minnesota)
PJ Tucker (Philly)
Gary Payton II (Portland)
Malik Monk (Sacramento)
Otto Porter Jr (Toronto)
Delon Wright (Washington)
2023-24
Jevon Carter (Bulls)
Georges Niang (Cleveland)
Matisse Thybulle (Dallas, matched by Portland)
Regie Jackson (Denver)
Gabe Vincent (LA Lakers)
Donte DiVicenzo (NY Knicks)
Dennis Schroeder (Toronto)
2024-25
Jalen Smith (Bulls)
Naji Marshall (Dallas)
D'Antony Melton (Warriors)
Derrick Jones (LA Clips)
Kelly Oubre (Philly) _________________ Los Angeles Lakers Leadership: Jeanie Buss, Robert Pelinka, Kurt Rambis, LeBron James, Rich Paul.
2003-04: Gary Payton. 14.6 ppg 5.5 apg 34.5 mpg (starter on a Finals team)
2009-10: Ron Artest. 11.0 ppg, 6th in DPOTY, 33.8 mpg (starter and key player on a championship team, game 7 vs Boston!!!)
Devean George (2002-2003)
Vlade Divac (2004-2005)
Vlad Radmanovic (2006-2007)
Gabe Vincent (2023-24)
This is the amount close to the full MLE. Not the TP-MLE which is basically half of that. Or the room exception. We're talking a considerable investment, right now the MLE is at over 10M, nearing 12-13M. Back in 2002 when we used it to keep Devean George it was about 5M. However the cap was lower too, as was elite player salaries (Kobe was making 25M, as opposed to an elite player now makes 60+M).
Historically the full MLE hasn't been too kind to the Lakers. However they have gotten some value out of it, in particular when the player incoming has established significant value and numbers the year prior. We saw this with Payton (20ppg on Bucks year before) Artest (20 ppg on Houston) and Trez (18 ppg on Clippers). When we take chances on players hoping to play up to the MLE value (George, Vincent, Radmanovic) we usually regret it and they are busts.
Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2024 3:16 pm Post subject: Re: Really good Laker players, who played for MLE level money
CandyCanes wrote:
Blake was trash. 4.0 ppg on 35.9% from the field in his first season with us. 5.2 ppg in his second season under Mike Brown, and then missed a wide open offer three in the playoffs against OKC on the last shot of the game (as opposed to letting Kobe take it), causing us to go down 3-1 instead of being tied 2-2.
It was unbelievable that they got such an open look for Blake on that play and I’d live with that one every single time. That series could have turned out a lot differently if that shot goes in.
So often, teams could just put 3-4 guys on Kobe because they knew the Lakers weren’t willing to have anyone else take the shot.
Lamar pre-Kardashian Odom _________________ “The main goal for the Lakers is to win a championship. All I care about, all we care about, is to raise another banner in the rafters.“
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 36530 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2024 6:58 pm Post subject: Re: Really good Laker players, who played for MLE level money
Treble Clef wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Blake was trash. 4.0 ppg on 35.9% from the field in his first season with us. 5.2 ppg in his second season under Mike Brown, and then missed a wide open offer three in the playoffs against OKC on the last shot of the game (as opposed to letting Kobe take it), causing us to go down 3-1 instead of being tied 2-2.
It was unbelievable that they got such an open look for Blake on that play and I’d live with that one every single time. That series could have turned out a lot differently if that shot goes in.
So often, teams could just put 3-4 guys on Kobe because they knew the Lakers weren’t willing to have anyone else take the shot.
I mean, there’s a reason why he was wide open. Imagine if it had been Fisher taking that shot instead, even at his advanced age. Trading him away for nothing really came back to haunt us that year. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
2003-04: Gary Payton. 14.6 ppg 5.5 apg 34.5 mpg (starter on a Finals team)
2009-10: Ron Artest. 11.0 ppg, 6th in DPOTY, 33.8 mpg (starter and key player on a championship team, game 7 vs Boston!!!)
Devean George (2002-2003)
Vlade Divac (2004-2005)
Vlad Radmanovic (2006-2007)
Gabe Vincent (2023-24)
This is the amount close to the full MLE. Not the TP-MLE which is basically half of that. Or the room exception. We're talking a considerable investment, right now the MLE is at over 10M, nearing 12-13M. Back in 2002 when we used it to keep Devean George it was about 5M. However the cap was lower too, as was elite player salaries (Kobe was making 25M, as opposed to an elite player now makes 60+M).
Historically the full MLE hasn't been too kind to the Lakers. However they have gotten some value out of it, in particular when the player incoming has established significant value and numbers the year prior. We saw this with Payton (20ppg on Bucks year before) Artest (20 ppg on Houston) and Trez (18 ppg on Clippers). When we take chances on players hoping to play up to the MLE value (George, Vincent, Radmanovic) we usually regret it and they are busts.
That's a bit of a flawed argument. These players took obvious pay cuts to join the Lakers. So it's expected that they would perform better. I'd also argue against Trez. He took his player option after his first year with us, probably realizing he would not get equivalent value in the open market. He was never able to get more than the minimum after that. Then again, I will always consider him Clipper trash so there might be a bias. _________________ Luxury Tax/FA Spreadsheet (Save to your Google Drive to edit)
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 36530 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2024 2:40 pm Post subject:
panamaniac wrote:
Mitch Kupchak was terrible with the MLE. Ariza should easily be on this list, but Mitch whiffed on that big time.
We didn’t even need to use the MLE to re-sign him because we had his bird rights. We just didn’t want to pay him 4 years, 32 million. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
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