| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
ocho
Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 55215
|
 Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2024 5:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| levon wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Hard_Butter wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | this is the least excited I’ve been for a season in quite a long time. Maybe ever. |
Ever? Those tanking Lakers featuring Jordan Hill and Nick Young with Kobe on the bench didn't trump this? Those four years of rooting for my team to lose for draft balls was probably the worst experience I've ever had as a sports fan. It was honestly trauma dulling my passion as a fanatic. That is up until 2020 when both my Lakers and Dodgers won ala '88. Two years I will never forget. |
Those teams certainly weren’t fun to watch, but at least we had an exciting lottery pick to look forward to at the end of the year. I just can’t stand the people who own and run the team and it makes it difficult to enjoy the product they put out. It’s a bad team. No bench. A slew of guys who can’t even play in the NBA. There’s a strong chance we actually do get that exciting lottery pick this year only to watch us ship it to New Orleans. Unless JJ Redick is the second coming of Christ there’s not much to look forward to here. We are on the LeBron Farewell Tour. |
It's not a bad team. It's a mid-to-good team, and maybe that's your problem. I'm going to try my best to just focus on enjoying basketball this season and not worry about outcomes. We may not have Bron and AD for very much longer and they're genuinely two of my favorite players to watch, plus rooting for Austin and Knecht. I'm starting to realize I don't really even like NBA basketball much anymore and I'm hoping JJ has this team playing in a way that is at least fun to watch and not completely stupid. |
I think calling them middling is fair but “good” is a stretch. They have two really good players and not much else to write home about. They are rostering at least 4-6 players who are legitimately terrible. They’ve got a coach with no experience and a questionable staff. Their best player is 40 years old. Several teams in their conference got better. I think if they match last season’s win total they should feel lucky. I’d take the under.
_________________
14-5-3-12 |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
levon
Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Oct 2016
Posts: 11505
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2024 8:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ocho wrote: | | levon wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Hard_Butter wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | this is the least excited I’ve been for a season in quite a long time. Maybe ever. |
Ever? Those tanking Lakers featuring Jordan Hill and Nick Young with Kobe on the bench didn't trump this? Those four years of rooting for my team to lose for draft balls was probably the worst experience I've ever had as a sports fan. It was honestly trauma dulling my passion as a fanatic. That is up until 2020 when both my Lakers and Dodgers won ala '88. Two years I will never forget. |
Those teams certainly weren’t fun to watch, but at least we had an exciting lottery pick to look forward to at the end of the year. I just can’t stand the people who own and run the team and it makes it difficult to enjoy the product they put out. It’s a bad team. No bench. A slew of guys who can’t even play in the NBA. There’s a strong chance we actually do get that exciting lottery pick this year only to watch us ship it to New Orleans. Unless JJ Redick is the second coming of Christ there’s not much to look forward to here. We are on the LeBron Farewell Tour. |
It's not a bad team. It's a mid-to-good team, and maybe that's your problem. I'm going to try my best to just focus on enjoying basketball this season and not worry about outcomes. We may not have Bron and AD for very much longer and they're genuinely two of my favorite players to watch, plus rooting for Austin and Knecht. I'm starting to realize I don't really even like NBA basketball much anymore and I'm hoping JJ has this team playing in a way that is at least fun to watch and not completely stupid. |
I think calling them middling is fair but “good” is a stretch. They have two really good players and not much else to write home about. They are rostering at least 4-6 players who are legitimately terrible. They’ve got a coach with no experience and a questionable staff. Their best player is 40 years old. Several teams in their conference got better. I think if they match last season’s win total they should feel lucky. I’d take the under. |
Last year's sensible starting five had them winning at a 60-70% win rate. I feel comfortable calling them a good team if their superstars are healthy (a caveat for literally every team).
There's nothing radically different about their regular-season prospects compared to the rest of this era. LeBron's been old since he signed here, AD's been injury-prone, the coaches have been a revolving door, and the role players have been random mishmashes. We just got lucky that the 2020 role players were the right mishmash.
Pete Zayas has talked about how the roster is an average of many people's visions, not a single vision, and it shows. That's why it's mid-to-good and thus uninspiring. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Denny_Russo
Star Player
Joined: 27 Jan 2016
Posts: 3430
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2024 10:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
Redick drawing up plays for Jaxson Hayes in the IST championship game as we speak.
_________________
Yi Jianlian Fanboy. Respect The Chair.
Starting anew. I'm retiring my main. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DShotMaker1824
Star Player
Joined: 16 Feb 2012
Posts: 8775
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2024 2:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Is PickNPop really PostandPivot?!
Anyway, this team is not championship level. Just hope we have fun this season.
_________________
"Through the legs to the left, through the legs to the right, we don't run them Laker plays, we just Kobe fadeaway..."
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Japago
Star Player
Joined: 21 Jun 2018
Posts: 1820
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2024 9:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The blind homer-ism here starts to wear thin. This probably goes hand and hand with people who are attached to the likes of AR and DLo and don't want to see them moved no matter what.
As long as AR, DLo, and Rui are the primary supporting cast, this team isn't contending.
That's just how it is. They don't play defense and don't aren't even good enough offensive centerpieces to compliment LeBron and AD.
Their production comes at the cost of defense. The Lakers were 23rd in defensive efficiency post all-star break, the best measure of the time they were inserted back into the starting lineup. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hanging from Rafters
Star Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2018
Posts: 5198
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2024 9:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Japago wrote: | The blind homer-ism here starts to wear thin. This probably goes hand and hand with people who are attached to the likes of AR and DLo and don't want to see them moved no matter what.
As long as AR, DLo, and Rui are the primary supporting cast, this team isn't contending.
That's just how it is. They don't play defense and don't aren't even good enough offensive centerpieces to compliment LeBron and AD.
Their production comes at the cost of defense. The Lakers were 23rd in defensive efficiency post all-star break, the best measure of the time they were inserted back into the starting lineup. |
What you’re saying makes sense, it seems like from looking at the roster analytically that they should NOT be able to win. I certainly want(ed) a clear cut upgrade.
What doesn’t make sense tho is how they were able to beat the Keltics, and also how they beat the Bucks twice. It could be thought of as a fluke but the starters beat the Cavs and Knicks too! I just don’t understand it. They beat the Thunder, beat the T-Wolves, and beat the Clippers, all of the above during that time you described while having the 23rd ranked defense.
I don’t get it. On paper the Lakers look like they shouldn’t have been able to do that…8-3 against the top 4 in both conferences…but they did and won the irrelevant IST ship earlier in the season. How did the Lakers have the tie breaker against the Thunder/Suns/Pels? I’m not comfortable or confident just rolling it back…especially with the only bench player that contributed significantly now gone in TPrince…but I also don’t want to let conceptualized thoughts on paper out weigh real actions on the court. I don’t know what to expect from this roster. I’m not willing to declare like you have that they can’t win when they have clearly shown that they have the potential, but I also can’t ignore my lack of confidence in how they look so poorly defensively.
Dammit Rob, why didn’t you sign Valanciunas and trade picks for Caruso??? With Vincent/CamRed/Vando/Wood coming back from injury and MaxChris/Knecht possible emergence I would have been fine with that, now I just don’t know.
_________________
“When it looks as if it is a realistic possibility, I want to focus on winning a ship like it’s a goal that can’t be denied. I didn’t see that this off season.” |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Snipes
Star Player
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Posts: 6589
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2024 9:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Scorching hot |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 18963
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2024 10:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Maybe if Vando becomes a 40% corner 3 point shooter |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
defense
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 40369
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2024 4:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
| tox wrote: | | Maybe if Vando becomes a 40% corner 3 point shooter |
If Vando becomes a 40% 3 shooter he becomes an elite 3 and D. That ain't happening though lol. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Halflife
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 18306
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
governator
Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25977
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2024 6:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
| defense wrote: | | tox wrote: | | Maybe if Vando becomes a 40% corner 3 point shooter |
If Vando becomes a 40% 3 shooter he becomes an elite 3 and D. That ain't happening though lol. |
40% 3s Vando is a max player
_________________
“The main goal for the Lakers is to win a championship. All I care about, all we care about, is to raise another banner in the rafters.“ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
E_Wulf420
Star Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2014
Posts: 1143
Location: Oregon
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2024 9:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
Idk how people don't think this team is a contender. No back up pg or starting SF and they still won over 45 games and we're a couple plays away from beating Denver in 5/6 games.
_________________
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Halflife
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 18306
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2024 9:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| E_Wulf420 wrote: | | Idk how people don't think this team is a contender. No back up pg or starting SF and they still won over 45 games and we're a couple plays away from beating Denver in 5/6 games. |
denver was a couple of plays away from sweeping us again.
_________________
Kobe.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Clw9scopegx/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ocho
Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 55215
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2024 10:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Halflife wrote: | | E_Wulf420 wrote: | | Idk how people don't think this team is a contender. No back up pg or starting SF and they still won over 45 games and we're a couple plays away from beating Denver in 5/6 games. |
denver was a couple of plays away from sweeping us again. |
We are 1-9 against Denver in the playoffs the last two years and people still talk about them like we’ve got em right where we want em.
_________________
14-5-3-12 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hanging from Rafters
Star Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2018
Posts: 5198
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2024 10:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
| E_Wulf420 wrote: | | Idk how people don't think this team is a contender. No back up pg or starting SF and they still won over 45 games and we're a couple plays away from beating Denver in 5/6 games. |
The Lakers starters…Dlo/AR/LBJ/Rui/AD…won much more on the court than they look like they should have won on paper.
That’s it.
Whenever a team over performs on the court based on analytics on paper then there is a lack of confidence that it can continue. Maybe it will continue, maybe it won’t, but the starters did win a lot of games after the trades, went to the WCF, then won the IST, and finally after getting back in the lineup as starters, beat the top teams 8-3 winning 70% of their regular games plus 70% of the minutes in the playoffs.
I look at the inconsistency of Dlo/AR/Rui with their lack of defense/rebounding and can’t be confident with them without an upgrade, but I can’t count them out based on their actual performance. They may or may not continue to win, but it is unreasonable to definitively say they cannot when considering the amount, quality, and time periods of the wins. I think it’s a long shot, a lot of reasonably possible things have to come together…
-heath especially AD/LBJ,
-Dlo/AR/Rui as starters replicate previous wins,
-Wood/Vando/CamRed/Vincent come back from injury productively,
-MaxChris/Knecht emerge as contributors in the rotation
-JJ coaches better than Ham,
…but if at least some of that happens then they may have a shot at actually competing for a ship. It’s too big of a risk with soooo many unknowns to have not upgraded, but if the Lakers are lucky they look like they may have a chance.
Don’t get me wrong tho…I don’t think enough of the luck will come together…I believe that the end result will not be a ship. I’m mad…furious/disgruntled/upset/disappointed/disgusted…at Rob for not upgrading with the team this close. A small tweak…Val/Caruso…could have been all that was needed to put this team over the top yet he did nothing.
_________________
“When it looks as if it is a realistic possibility, I want to focus on winning a ship like it’s a goal that can’t be denied. I didn’t see that this off season.” |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BEazy
Star Player
Joined: 06 Nov 2013
Posts: 2768
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2024 10:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
How can this team be considered championship-caliber? Have we addressed the Jokic problem that has plagued us in two straight playoff series? Have we improved our shooting? Is JJ Redick going to come out of retirement to fix our terrible shooting?
While our players have strengths that contribute to the team, their weaknesses are crippling. Until we tackle these persistent issues, no amount of coaching or the addition of Knecht/Bronny is going to make a difference.
I get it, we're Lakers fans, and we always hope for the best, but some of you are in for a rude awakening when you realize JJ Redick is a first-time coach at ANY level. Knecht and Bronny are rookies who still need to develop their game.
Sure, we got Gabe and Vando back, but both of them struggle with shooting, which is going to be a problem... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Halflife
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 18306
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2024 10:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ocho wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | E_Wulf420 wrote: | | Idk how people don't think this team is a contender. No back up pg or starting SF and they still won over 45 games and we're a couple plays away from beating Denver in 5/6 games. |
denver was a couple of plays away from sweeping us again. |
We are 1-9 against Denver in the playoffs the last two years and people still talk about them like we’ve got em right where we want em. |
crazy. All denver seemingly needs to beat us is 5 minutes of execution and its curtains.
_________________
Kobe.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Clw9scopegx/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hanging from Rafters
Star Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2018
Posts: 5198
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2024 11:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
| BEazy wrote: | How can this team be considered championship-caliber? Have we addressed the Jokic problem that has plagued us in two straight playoff series? Have we improved our shooting? Is JJ Redick going to come out of retirement to fix our terrible shooting?
While our players have strengths that contribute to the team, their weaknesses are crippling. Until we tackle these persistent issues, no amount of coaching or the addition of Knecht/Bronny is going to make a difference.
I get it, we're Lakers fans, and we always hope for the best, but some of you are in for a rude awakening when you realize JJ Redick is a first-time coach at ANY level. Knecht and Bronny are rookies who still need to develop their game.
Sure, we got Gabe and Vando back, but both of them struggle with shooting, which is going to be a problem... |
You could be right…we all know that…it’s how it looks on paper. But the reason some have hope is related to the things you omitted and not so much depending on the things you mentioned.
Dlo/AR/LBJ/Rui/AD as starters won a lot of fracking games, against a lot of top opponents, over a lot of stretches. It was done with:
-many injuries to multiple players at multiple positions,
-atrocious bench contributions,
-and abysmal coaching.
All of those problems were so bad it’s reasonable to think at least some of them will improve, and if that happens…based on the consistent tho limited success so far…the Lakers may have a chance.
Maybe I agree with you tho because even tho I see the ability to compete, I don’t envision the ability to win a ship, a small upgrade would be have been necessary for that imo which of course has not been done. As a Lakers fan, who cares if we compete if we can’t win, so yea, the team is good enough to compete to be called a contender but I don’t see it as good enough to win either. I’m probably more optimistic than you but ultimately I’ve talked myself into agreement lol!
_________________
“When it looks as if it is a realistic possibility, I want to focus on winning a ship like it’s a goal that can’t be denied. I didn’t see that this off season.” |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hanging from Rafters
Star Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2018
Posts: 5198
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2024 11:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ocho wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | E_Wulf420 wrote: | | Idk how people don't think this team is a contender. No back up pg or starting SF and they still won over 45 games and we're a couple plays away from beating Denver in 5/6 games. |
denver was a couple of plays away from sweeping us again. |
We are 1-9 against Denver in the playoffs the last two years and people still talk about them like we’ve got em right where we want em. |
One of the “people” was KCP who started for Denver and was right there as it happened lol!
The truth is more in the middle.
1) Better teams find a way to win even if they are down most of the game, so Denver is still better.
2) The Lakers played better than Denver for most of the time and looked like the better team most of the time.
Those pushing their own agenda…one way or another…ignore the truth of either 1) or 2) even tho both are facts.
_________________
“When it looks as if it is a realistic possibility, I want to focus on winning a ship like it’s a goal that can’t be denied. I didn’t see that this off season.” |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MJST
Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 27568
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2024 5:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| defense wrote: | | What if they don't start who you think will start? Are they still championship caliber then? |
You mean if a coach is incompetent? We've seen that the last two seasons.
_________________
How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kobetan
Star Player
Joined: 05 Sep 2020
Posts: 3006
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2024 5:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| This is how most teams feel when everyone's record is 0-0. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MJST
Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 27568
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2024 5:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'd say that we definitely are. People that look at our placement at the end of the season and NOT factoring in what our record was when the Coach finally played the lineup he was being screamed at to play all season. To say we weren't one of the top teams in the league when we were finally allowed to run our lineup, they are doing it wrong.
_________________
How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Halflife
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 18306
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2024 6:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Kobetan wrote: | | This is how most teams feel when everyone's record is 0-0. |
pretty much
wolves
nuggs
okc
dallas
grizz
I guess us. I mean we have 2 50m per players. who else has that out west?
_________________
Kobe.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Clw9scopegx/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Japago
Star Player
Joined: 21 Jun 2018
Posts: 1820
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2024 7:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Teams go on hot streaks all the time in a long regular season. That doesn't prove a team is a championship contender.
Like I said, even within that solid run, the Lakers were 23rd in defensive efficiency. No championship contender is going to be that bad on defense.
And within those hot streaks, the Lakers got beat down by the Nuggets. They were the champions in 2023, but they weren't close this season. They lost to a team that got dominated by a team, and then that team got dominated by another team.
Where do you think that places the Lakers in the NBA hierarchy?
It's honestly comical that people think this team contends as is. They proved they weren't in 2023 when they didn't put up much resistance against the Nuggets.
That run was the Lakers running into 2 suspect playoffs teams and getting beat down when they ran into their first real good team. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 18963
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2024 9:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
basketball is not transitive that way
the 2014 Spurs' hardest series was the Mavs in the 1st round, it did not portend the Mavs were gonna be dominant in 2015 or something |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
