Seems like the plane was cleared to land and either the helicopter pilot or air traffic control messed up. They also said the helicopter had its transponder off and that’s normal when a high ranking military official is on board but others are saying it was only a crew of 3 on a training flight. The commercial plane did have its transponder on because apparently it can’t be turned off by the pilot.
Joined: 26 Apr 2004 Posts: 17953 Location: In a no-ship
Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2025 9:54 pm Post subject:
Tark the Shark wrote:
Seems like the plane was cleared to land and either the helicopter pilot or air traffic control messed up. They also said the helicopter had its transponder off and that’s normal when a high ranking military official is on board but others are saying it was only a crew of 3 on a training flight. The commercial plane did have its transponder on because apparently it can’t be turned off by the pilot.
Saw this on Reddit:
Quote:
My buddy is an air traffic controller, he said that the air traffic controllers get visual separation confirmation from the Blackhawk pilot, at which point the pilot of the Blackhawk would be responsible for not hitting the plane. He listened to the audio logs, the air traffic controls got the visual separation confirmation and told the helicopter pilot about the air traffic 3 times, this is not on the air traffic controller it's on the pilot of the Blackhawk.
Joined: 26 Apr 2004 Posts: 17953 Location: In a no-ship
Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2025 9:57 pm Post subject:
Quote:
At the 17:20 mark
https://archive.liveatc.net/kdca/KDCA1-Twr-Jan-30-2025-0130Z.mp3
---
Broadcastify has the communications between the Tower and Pat-25 on the discrete DCA Heli Tower Frequency, but you cannot hear Blue Streak 5342. The helos and the jets were on separate frequencies but with the same tower controller.
https://archives.broadcastify.com/44114/20250129/202501292000-281903-44114.mp3
At 5:41 mark 5342 is given instructions for circling to 33.
At 6:45 mark PAT-25 reports Memorial
At 7:06 mark tower gives PAT-25 traffic advisory about 5342 and PAT-25 reports traffic in sight and requests visual separation
At 8:12 mark tower asks PAT-25 if they have the CRJ in sight. PAT-25 again reports traffic in sight and again requests visual separation.
At 8:28 mark, crash occurs, exclamations, go arounds issued
Figure skaters and coaches returning from the recent U.S. national championships were aboard the American Airlines flight that collided with a Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan National Airport on Wednesday, officials said.
The U.S. Figure Skating organization confirmed that "several members" of the skating community were aboard American Airlines Flight 5342 which took off from Wichita, Kansas, and crashed approaching Reagan National Airport after colliding with a helicopter shortly before 9 p.m.
"These athletes, coaches, and family members were returning home from the National Development Camp held in conjunction with the U.S. Figure Skating Championships in Wichita, Kansas," the organization said.
Quote:
There were 60 passengers and four crew members aboard the jet and three personnel aboard the Army helicopter, which officials said was on a training flight at the time of the crash.
_________________ Don't blame me. I voted for Kamala Harris and Hillary Clinton.
Seems like the plane was cleared to land and either the helicopter pilot or air traffic control messed up. They also said the helicopter had its transponder off and that’s normal when a high ranking military official is on board but others are saying it was only a crew of 3 on a training flight. The commercial plane did have its transponder on because apparently it can’t be turned off by the pilot.
Saw this on Reddit:
Quote:
My buddy is an air traffic controller, he said that the air traffic controllers get visual separation confirmation from the Blackhawk pilot, at which point the pilot of the Blackhawk would be responsible for not hitting the plane. He listened to the audio logs, the air traffic controls got the visual separation confirmation and told the helicopter pilot about the air traffic 3 times, this is not on the air traffic controller it's on the pilot of the Blackhawk.
Seems that the helicopter pilot was told of a nearby plane to get clear of. The helicopter identified the wrong plane and confirmed he was clear of it. Then hit the other plane.
Transportation Secretary and former MTV reality show contestant Sean Duffy: "Obviously, it is not standard to have aircraft collide. I want to be clear on that."
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 55014 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2025 8:35 am Post subject:
Wilt wrote:
Transportation Secretary and former MTV reality show contestant Sean Duffy: "Obviously, it is not standard to have aircraft collide. I want to be clear on that."
Real quote.
Yeah, I posted that in Poli thread. _________________ "You know it seems the more we talk about it, it only makes it worse to live without it."
Joined: 07 May 2014 Posts: 14864 Location: Boulder ;)
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2025 9:42 am Post subject:
I don't remember the terminology but the passenger plane was flying below 1000 feet and the impending collision tracking doesn't work that low was part of why the helicopter needed to get out of the way. Seems like they only had to go UP? _________________ If we don't make it dangerous to be a NAZI
They'll make it dangerous not to be
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 71184 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2025 11:40 am Post subject:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Wilt wrote:
Transportation Secretary and former MTV reality show contestant Sean Duffy: "Obviously, it is not standard to have aircraft collide. I want to be clear on that."
Real quote.
Yeah, I posted that in Poli thread.
Expect this kind of incompetence for the next 4 years, maybe more. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be
because we destroyed ourselves.
"It was a very experienced group," said Jonathan Koziol, a retired Army chief warrant officer with more than 30 years experience in flying Army helicopters. Koziol has been attached to the Unified Command Post created at Reagan National Airport to coordinate efforts following the deadly collision.
Koziol confirmed to reporters on a conference call that the male instructor pilot had more than 1,000 hours of flight time, the female pilot who was commanding the flight at the time had more than 500 hours of flight time, and the crew chief was also said to have hundreds of hours of flight time.
Joined: 07 May 2014 Posts: 14864 Location: Boulder ;)
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2025 5:37 pm Post subject:
Really the kind of guy you would vote for to care for your fellow citizens.
Quote:
On January 21, Trump also fired TSA Administrator David Pekoske and Coast Guard Commandant Adm. Linda (bleep), and eliminated all the members of the Aviation Security Advisory Committee. The Aviation Security Advisory Committee was mandated by Congress after the 1988 PanAm 103 bombing over Lockerbie, Scotland.
While the committee will technically still exist, it will no longer have any members to carry out the work of examining safety issues at airlines and airports. “I naively thought, ‘oh they’re not going to do anything in the new administration, to put security at risk — aviation security at risk.’ But I’m not so sure,” said Stephanie Bernstein, whose husband was killed in the Lockerbie bombing and served on the committee.
Also, one of the comments explains it was the blackhawk’s fault:
Quote:
OK to clear some of this up. The CRJ was about 4 miles out at 1200 descending. The tower told PAT25 and asked if they had it in sight. They not only said yes, but they requested visual - which means they are taking responsibility to maintain separation from the landing jet.
When the jet was turning final, the ATC saw them getting close and asked the PAT25 if they had the jet in sight - they responded yes again, and again requested visual - they were responsible to maintain separation. The tower responded for them to pass behind the jet, that was about 6 seconds before impact.
It should be noted, Military helos in that corridor are to maintain 200' altitude and hug the east bank of the Potomac. This is to maximize vertical separation for aircraft on approach to land.
They were in fact at 400' and in the center of the river. 2 big takeaways - the PAT25 was flying on VFR (visual flight rules) and the inbound jet on IFR (instrument flight rules) - IFR always has precedence to VFR traffic; and perhaps more importantly, they told the ATC 2 times they wanted visual - which translates to "we are taking responsibility to maintain a safe distance" - which obviously they did not.
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