Were the Lakers championship contenders before "the trade"?
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Were we?
Yes but I still like the trade
29%
 29%  [ 18 ]
Yes so I don't like the trade
1%
 1%  [ 1 ]
No
68%
 68%  [ 42 ]
Total Votes : 61

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Halflife
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2025 12:38 pm    Post subject:

TheBlackMamba wrote:
No. I'm in the minority here, but if we get a starting caliber center, I actually think this version of the team stands a better chance in any one-off series than the Bron/AD team. They're still not a "contender" in the strictest definition of the word since winning four series consecutively will be a longshot, but in a vacuum, there's a case for them beating any team in the league in a single series.

any team with luka has a chance
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2025 12:44 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
No way we were beating either of OKC or Cleveland/Boston in a seven game series, let alone both. I doubt we would have even beaten the Rockets or Nuggets. Potentially we wouldn't have even beaten the Wolves or Clippers.


With regards to the Nuggets you doubt? Like there was even a slight chance that we could have beaten them?

6 regular season losses in a row and a 1-8 record in the last 2 seasons isn't convincing enough to suggest which way it's going to go. If this were a scientific study, you could verify a hypothesis with those numbers. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that this matchup is worse for us than any of the other matchups. And that's saying a lot.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2025 12:57 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
No way we were beating either of OKC or Cleveland/Boston in a seven game series, let alone both. I doubt we would have even beaten the Rockets or Nuggets. Potentially we wouldn't have even beaten the Wolves or Clippers.


With regards to the Nuggets you doubt? Like there was even a slight chance that we could have beaten them?

6 regular season losses in a row and a 1-8 record in the last 2 seasons isn't convincing enough to suggest which way it's going to go. If this were a scientific study, you could verify a hypothesis with those numbers. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that this matchup is worse for us than any of the other matchups. And that's saying a lot.


Well, they lost KCP, an elite 3 and D guy. But 90% chance we would have lost against them still, and they are only second tier contenders.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2025 12:59 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
We had a puncher’s chance


This. Lets say we traded our 2 FRPs for a center and we still got bounced in the 2nd round? We'd be (bleep) beyond belief. Kind of like the Mavs right now. The Mavs have to win in the next 2 years or they are rebuilding for a half decade with no picks.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2025 1:03 pm    Post subject:

maybe if we got a center... got another point guard.. etc... it wasn't happening. breaking up sucks. time to move on- this was a great move for the franchise and we weren't real contenders with AD as constructed.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2025 1:06 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
No way we were beating either of OKC or Cleveland/Boston in a seven game series, let alone both. I doubt we would have even beaten the Rockets or Nuggets. Potentially we wouldn't have even beaten the Wolves or Clippers.


With regards to the Nuggets you doubt? Like there was even a slight chance that we could have beaten them?

6 regular season losses in a row and a 1-8 record in the last 2 seasons isn't convincing enough to suggest which way it's going to go. If this were a scientific study, you could verify a hypothesis with those numbers. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that this matchup is worse for us than any of the other matchups. And that's saying a lot.


Well, they lost KCP, an elite 3 and D guy. But 90% chance we would have lost against them still, and they are only second tier contenders.


They beat us this year without KCP. Honestly, (now a big if) but if Murray plays like playoff Murray instead of the one that showed up last post-season all bets are off. No team in the league wants that smoke with Jokic and playoff Murray in a 7 game series.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2025 1:07 pm    Post subject:

moreover the problem with AD- he is a Robin who needs a robin. great player, laker legend... but he's not an alpha and required another player to really unlock him.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2025 1:19 pm    Post subject:

Yes, the Lakers have quietly had one of the best records in the league and they just beat two of the top east teams very easily.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2025 1:20 pm    Post subject:

Theseus wrote:
We could have foreman'd our way to the finals if we got the right matchups. I think our seeding takes a hit with the trade for this season, but for future seasons we're better. Our odds for championship weren't 0, but they weren't even 10% though either.


I would agree with this. We were a good team and JJ was showing why Ham was a bad head coach (Max, Rui, AR, and DLo were all benched behind Cam freaking Reddish at various times last season). But our chances of actually winning the ring were low. We had a punchers' chance if we happened on the right teams and if we stayed healthy somehow while other teams had key players get hurt. Our chances were better than they are now (we are a much worse team right now, imo), but we have a much longer horizon in the future now, assuming we can sign Luka to an extension.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2025 2:33 am    Post subject:

Told you guys we're championship contenders. Or people gonna say the Flippers are trash as well? lol. The Lakers have just become a different team as of late. JJ is a genius. Man, I would hate to tear this team up in order to build around Luka but if JJ is smart, then he should be able to adjust and adapt to any situation so we'll see.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2025 4:47 am    Post subject:

We needed some luck and some trades, but we had a chance.
Now we are in a better position!

Big AD games were great to watch, but quite inconsistent. Luka has a lesser D impact but having Luka, LBJ and AR will mean they will have energy for the 4th Q and we'll be able to contend vs anyone!
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2025 5:16 am    Post subject:

lakersfever714 wrote:
Told you guys we're championship contenders. Or people gonna say the Flippers are trash as well? lol. The Lakers have just become a different team as of late. JJ is a genius. Man, I would hate to tear this team up in order to build around Luka but if JJ is smart, then he should be able to adjust and adapt to any situation so we'll see.


U think the clips is a championship contender?
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2025 5:22 am    Post subject:

Who is the 1? Show yourself!
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2025 6:43 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
lakersfever714 wrote:
Told you guys we're championship contenders. Or people gonna say the Flippers are trash as well? lol. The Lakers have just become a different team as of late. JJ is a genius. Man, I would hate to tear this team up in order to build around Luka but if JJ is smart, then he should be able to adjust and adapt to any situation so we'll see.


U think the clips is a championship contender?


With a healthy Kawhi, yes. I thought Lue is a HOF headcoach? They're a contender. So the Lakers beat the Flippers because the Flippers are trash?

Harden made the all-star. Powell almost made it. Kawhi would have made it if he was healthy. You're telling me a team with three possible all-stars, a solid center and a HOF hc isn't a championship contender? Then what is?
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2025 7:09 am    Post subject:

lakersfever714 wrote:
governator wrote:
lakersfever714 wrote:
Told you guys we're championship contenders. Or people gonna say the Flippers are trash as well? lol. The Lakers have just become a different team as of late. JJ is a genius. Man, I would hate to tear this team up in order to build around Luka but if JJ is smart, then he should be able to adjust and adapt to any situation so we'll see.


U think the clips is a championship contender?


With a healthy Kawhi, yes. I thought Lue is a HOF headcoach? They're a contender. So the Lakers beat the Flippers because the Flippers are trash?

Harden made the all-star. Powell almost made it. Kawhi would have made it if he was healthy. You're telling me a team with three possible all-stars, a solid center and a HOF hc isn't a championship contender? Then what is?


Kawhi looks like a shell of himself. He can no longer do it every night. He looks so skinny now also
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2025 7:15 am    Post subject:

Knecht4 wrote:
lakersfever714 wrote:
governator wrote:
lakersfever714 wrote:
Told you guys we're championship contenders. Or people gonna say the Flippers are trash as well? lol. The Lakers have just become a different team as of late. JJ is a genius. Man, I would hate to tear this team up in order to build around Luka but if JJ is smart, then he should be able to adjust and adapt to any situation so we'll see.


U think the clips is a championship contender?


With a healthy Kawhi, yes. I thought Lue is a HOF headcoach? They're a contender. So the Lakers beat the Flippers because the Flippers are trash?

Harden made the all-star. Powell almost made it. Kawhi would have made it if he was healthy. You're telling me a team with three possible all-stars, a solid center and a HOF hc isn't a championship contender? Then what is?


Kawhi looks like a shell of himself. He can no longer do it every night. He looks so skinny now also


Last time he played us, he was almost perfect going 9/13. They didn't even need him to beat us.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2025 7:18 am    Post subject:

As these games are showing. when Lebron plays at this level, he and AD would be a factor. However the team we had still isn't on the level to be able to get through the West and win in the Finals against Boston or CLE.

So we'd need more moves. Of course one can argue what would that team have looked like with using the 2029 pick + Max level player (maybe add in a Rui) and perhaps you have enough post-trade to be a legit top 4 contender in the league.

Here's the problem with that though. The 2027 pick is already gone. The 2029 pick would also be gone. By the time 2027 and 2029 come, the Lakers may not have been a good enough team. So they're losing lottery picks.

With Luka, they probably feel they can be a good team well beyond 2029, so they don't feel bad about giving up those picks now. And they may move even more longterm assets.

Basically what I'm saying is both could be true. We could have maybe built one last run/contender around AD/Bron using the 2029 pick + other asset and we could be right for trading the 2029+Max+ AD for Luka. I think if given the opportunity, 29/30 GMs not named Nico would do exactly what we did if given these options.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2025 7:32 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
As these games are showing. when Lebron plays at this level, he and AD would be a factor. However the team we had still isn't on the level to be able to get through the West and win in the Finals against Boston or CLE.

So we'd need more moves. Of course one can argue what would that team have looked like with using the 2029 pick + Max level player (maybe add in a Rui) and perhaps you have enough post-trade to be a legit top 4 contender in the league.

Here's the problem with that though. The 2027 pick is already gone. The 2029 pick would also be gone. By the time 2027 and 2029 come, the Lakers may not have been a good enough team. So they're losing lottery picks.

With Luka, they probably feel they can be a good team well beyond 2029, so they don't feel bad about giving up those picks now. And they may move even more longterm assets.

Basically what I'm saying is both could be true. We could have maybe built one last run/contender around AD/Bron using the 2029 pick + other asset and we could be right for trading the 2029+Max+ AD for Luka. I think if given the opportunity, 29/30 GMs not named Nico would do exactly what we did if given these options.


Didn't we just beat Foston though? I think we actually have a very good record against Foston the past couple of seasons. Maybe we just match up well against them. We would have beaten them in the NBA Finals last year had we made it there.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2025 7:41 am    Post subject:

Boston has been losing to a lot of teams. They're coasting. Most title teams in year 2 have that issue. I don't think the Boston you're seeing now is the same level you'd see in the Finals.

I tend to look at the match ups, even pre-Mavs trade, we had some moves that needed to be made. I've always agreed that a healthy AD and Lebron at a high level alone puts you in the picture. It's just that regular season and postseason are 2 different animals. We hadn't been able to beat Denver and there's no way we were going to beat Denver and even OKC (IMO) without moving AD to the starting 4 and getting a major upgrade at the 5. All I'm saying I don't think it was a given we could go to the Finals.

As well even if there was a chance, I think you make this deal. You know to me people have been comparing it to the wrong deal. I don't think this a Pau like deal at all. I feel the deal it's more similar to is the one that got veto'd. We got an elite PG in his prime who was a franchise level PG and Stern veto the deal. We lost major core pieces to the title team (or so we thought). The argument was whether that group had another run left or not, and the same argument is here today.

Like back then with CP3, I think this deal with Luka 29/30 GMs make each time. Gasol/Odom was a LOT to give up IMO, and so is AD (plus the other pieces). But you are getting a franchise level PG in his prime. So every GM not named Nico makes this deal. Even though I'll miss AD, I feel we got the best possible value we could out of AD/2029 pick. The only way this move backfires is if Luka doesn't sign a longterm extension and leaves within 2-3 years via FA.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2025 8:06 am    Post subject:

I think the clips with healthy Kawhi is about where we were with healthy AD, behind OKC, Denver and Houston… prob also behind Mavs with a healthy Luka. I think Luka is better than AD and I think our ceiling is higher too now.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2025 1:06 pm    Post subject:

No. But I don't think the team after trade is a contender either. We still need a big - but there are not many good options available, especially not without giving up too much talent.
Lakers trade chances might not be as good after this crazy trade anymore.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2025 1:35 pm    Post subject:

I think they were in the same situation as we're in now. It would have been a miraculous run to make the Finals and win the chip, but it could have happened.

As it stands now it would be a miracle run to make the Finals and win the chip this year...

but it also would be/is going to be a helluva lot more exciting.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2025 8:46 am    Post subject:

I guess the questions now is if we didn't make the Luka trade but still make the Williams trade, is our chance of winning the championship higher?

Williams, AD, LBJ, Christie, Reaves
Rui, DFS, Gabe, Vanderbailt
still have one FRP to make a trade
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2025 8:51 am    Post subject:

With AD I feel far more confident about crushing OKC in the playoffs. I also think with Mark Williams + AD we have a good shot against Denver as we can run a functional twin tower lineup.

However, with AD it's far more likely the Lakers lose to a random team like Minnesota because the Lakers lack the offensive firepower.

Both teams would be very good! Which makes the Luka configuration a no brainer given it gives us another 5-8 years to compete
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2025 8:55 am    Post subject:

lakersfan8 wrote:
I guess the questions now is if we didn't make the Luka trade but still make the Williams trade, is our chance of winning the championship higher?

Williams, AD, LBJ, Christie, Reaves
Rui, DFS, Gabe, Vanderbailt
still have one FRP to make a trade


Probably not, the paint would be clogged, AD doesn't stretch the floor. He would have needed a Myles Turner type
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