Joined: 20 Jul 2006 Posts: 8787 Location: Left coast
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2025 10:04 pm Post subject:
lakersfan8 wrote:
Even if they needed to trade Zubac for the max slot, they should have tried to obtain draft pick with the trade.
100% agreed.
The irritating part i recall is Earvin's smug response "you need stars to win." He had no clue (or patience) about what Zubac would develop into, but since he wasn't a 22 year old superstar, there was no need to try to get fair market value for him.
Were fans supposed be stupid and just accept that logic? Not long afterward, Earvin wrecked the car, so to speak, and for the 3rd time, quit on the team...once as a returning player, and once as a coach. Good riddance.
Doesn’t resigning Zu’s timeline fit in before the AD trade?
No way the Pelicans aren’t asking for Ivica coming back.
We all cope together.
If the Pels ask for Zubac it still means we keep an additional asset/young player. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 24687 Location: La Jolla, San Diego
Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2025 11:31 am Post subject:
MJST wrote:
KingKobe20 wrote:
Doesn’t resigning Zu’s timeline fit in before the AD trade?
No way the Pelicans aren’t asking for Ivica coming back.
We all cope together.
If the Pels ask for Zubac it still means we keep an additional asset/young player.
OMFG... this trade gets worse with time. LOL! For some reason, my foggy memory thought Zu was traded when AD was on the team already. Lakers needed a stretch 5 to put them over the top. LOL! The correct memory is that we were nowhere near a chip, since AD wasn't here yet, but we decided to trade a perfectly good young prospect for a nothing burger. _________________ "The game is MORE than just one player. Without Luka, DFS would have been more than enough to replace him based on what we've seen," LakersFever714, the greatest casual of all time.
No AD, No clue Luka was on the way.
JJ's zone and high motion offense destroyed ZU and his clips.
That’s just cherry picking. Lakers strategic defense focused on KAT before that and shut him down. They also made the possible mvp, Jokic, look mortal against them.
You failed to mention how Zubac destroyed the Lakers before AD left.
Without digging deeper, another post(er?) said Zubac is a 10/8 player. Conveniently forgot to mention that includes seasons when he was raw upon arrival, and those numbers have steadily increased in the last several years.
It’s delusional to consider him an average center (I don’t recall which poster said it, so I’m including it here). If he was a f/a, he’d be in high demand right now.
Caruso is still the worst guy the Lakers let walk for nothing. He already proved his valuable contributions to a championship team, and he's done nothing but prove valuable to winning on his 2 other teams.
Randle and Zubac might be more talented, but I think they're ultimately difficult fits if you truly want to contend.
It was still really bad that they were given away for nothing though.
So there's two reports both saying different things. Why is all the blame being put on Lebron exactly when we've got conflicting reports??
Also the report mentions both AD and Lebron encouraging Rob. why are we omitting AD from this?
.
Truth is always somewhere in the middle
Also you kept mentioning Rob wanted Buddy/Turner yet in the quote it only states Rob wanted Buddy who played in Sacraento during that time. So Turner wasn't even in the picture.
As we all know Buddy sucks. I doubt he's even better than Westbrook right now.
So there's two reports both saying different things. Why is all the blame being put on Lebron exactly when we've got conflicting reports??
Also the report mentions both AD and Lebron encouraging Rob. why are we omitting AD from this?
.
Truth is always somewhere in the middle
Also you kept mentioning Rob wanted Buddy/Turner yet in the quote it only states Rob wanted Buddy who played in Sacraento during that time. So Turner wasn't even in the picture.
As we all know Buddy sucks. I doubt he's even better than Westbrook right now.
Well, one report is from Bill Reiter who isn’t a credible NBA source and has never broken a story in his life. The other source is the players themselves, who detailed their off season meeting that didn’t include Pelinka.
Quote:
About two weeks ago, Russell Westbrook went to LeBron James' home and together they and Anthony Davis had a conversation about the All-Star guard joining James and Davis on the Lakers.
They talked about putting their egos aside and playing as one in their quest to bring the Lakers another NBA championship. Westbrook talked about how his only intention was winning and coming back home to Los Angeles to become a champion.
James and Davis talked about the two of them changing positions if that was best for the team — James moving from small forward to power forward and Davis from power forward to center.
Westbrook let James and Davis know he doesn't mind playing off the ball when James initiates the offense, something he did while playing alongside James Harden with the Houston Rockets.
Additionally, Kuzma reiterated that the deal to Sacramento was “done.”
Quote:
“I was kind of shocked, because I thought I was going to Sac,” Kuzma said on “No Chill With Gilbert Arenas.” “Like the Sacramento deal with Buddy Hield, that s--t was done. So I’m thinking in my head, like, ‘OK, Sac, 45-minute flight. That’s not bad. I can go to Napa.’
“But then out of nowhere, you’re going to Washington.”
I don’t see this as a blame game thing. It started and was spearheaded by LeBron, Davis, and Westbrook but so what? The Westbrook trade was an organizational failure. Just because the players pushed for it doesn’t mean Rob and Jeanie had to do it. They’re all to blame for it. They all made it happen. _________________ 14-5-3-12
So there's two reports both saying different things. Why is all the blame being put on Lebron exactly when we've got conflicting reports??
Also the report mentions both AD and Lebron encouraging Rob. why are we omitting AD from this?
.
Truth is always somewhere in the middle
Also you kept mentioning Rob wanted Buddy/Turner yet in the quote it only states Rob wanted Buddy who played in Sacraento during that time. So Turner wasn't even in the picture.
As we all know Buddy sucks. I doubt he's even better than Westbrook right now.
Well, one report is from Bill Reiter who isn’t a credible NBA source and has never broken a story in his life. The other source is the players themselves, who detailed their off season meeting that didn’t include Pelinka.
Quote:
About two weeks ago, Russell Westbrook went to LeBron James' home and together they and Anthony Davis had a conversation about the All-Star guard joining James and Davis on the Lakers.
They talked about putting their egos aside and playing as one in their quest to bring the Lakers another NBA championship. Westbrook talked about how his only intention was winning and coming back home to Los Angeles to become a champion.
James and Davis talked about the two of them changing positions if that was best for the team — James moving from small forward to power forward and Davis from power forward to center.
Westbrook let James and Davis know he doesn't mind playing off the ball when James initiates the offense, something he did while playing alongside James Harden with the Houston Rockets.
Additionally, Kuzma reiterated that the deal to Sacramento was “done.”
Quote:
“I was kind of shocked, because I thought I was going to Sac,” Kuzma said on “No Chill With Gilbert Arenas.” “Like the Sacramento deal with Buddy Hield, that s--t was done. So I’m thinking in my head, like, ‘OK, Sac, 45-minute flight. That’s not bad. I can go to Napa.’
“But then out of nowhere, you’re going to Washington.”
I don’t see this as a blame game thing. It started and was spearheaded by LeBron, Davis, and Westbrook but so what? The Westbrook trade was an organizational failure. Just because the players pushed for it doesn’t mean Rob and Jeanie had to do it. They’re all to blame for it. They all made it happen.
Ah well that does change things. Lebron and AD does get blame and rightfully so but as you said Jeanie and Rob shouldn't be absolved they are as much to blame for the trade happening.
Kobe trashed the owner and asked them to trade Bynum for an old Jason Kidd. Even the greats make bad GM decisions at times. Kobe would have traded BOTH Lamar Odom in his prime and Bynum for Jermaine O'Neal who 2 years after broke down as an athlete. Mitch talked to both teams, and wanted both Kidd/JO, but had the understanding that the trades were bad negotiations for the Lakers.
It's the FO who makes the final calls on those things. The negotiation is not done by the franchise players.
Even if Bron wanted Westbrook, it doesn't mean he's a good GM you listen to. Then even if you trade for WB, doesn't mean it HAD to be bad a deal/situation post trade. If what we gave up, was more in line with us staying deep post trade, re-signing Caruso etc. we could have been a playoff team the following year.
What killed it was what we gave up. 2 FRPs, Kuzma, KCP and letting Caruso walk. Lebron and AD and KLUTCH did not negotiate that ridiculous trade. Rob Pelinka did.
Easily if the team was able to keep KCP out of the deal, re-sign Caruso. The situation isn't nearly as bad. By not re-signing/extending Dennis (who they gave a pick up for) Pelinka HAD to throw in KCP to make the deal work for salaries. Easily the deal could have been done with Dennis instead had the extension/deal been worked out. In which case post trade you have WB/KCP/Caruso/Reaves as your guard core. Sure WB was never going to win a title here but the deal didn't need to be that bad/1 sided. That was 100% on Pelinka. By simply extending Dennis when we traded a pick for him, we would have had salary to use in the WB deal. Then we'd mantain a solid guard core in Reaves/Caruso/KCP post-Westbrook trade. Probably could have seen out the 2 years of WB without needing to throw in the 2027 FRP to get rid of him.
Of course hindsight is always 20-20, it's just that since it's being brought up that Lebron is the one that wanted WB, it's fair to also have a look at what a GM should/could have been doing in that situation. Easily as I said, the deal could have been done without KCP had Dennis been given an extension (which was another mistake, you don't trade a FRP for a player you don't know will extend).
No AD, No clue Luka was on the way.
JJ's zone and high motion offense destroyed ZU and his clips.
That’s just cherry picking. Lakers strategic defense focused on KAT before that and shut him down. They also made the possible mvp, Jokic, look mortal against them.
You failed to mention how Zubac destroyed the Lakers before AD left.
Without digging deeper, another post(er?) said Zubac is a 10/8 player. Conveniently forgot to mention that includes seasons when he was raw upon arrival, and those numbers have steadily increased in the last several years.
It’s delusional to consider him an average center (I don’t recall which poster said it, so I’m including it here). If he was a f/a, he’d be in high demand right now.
Just cherry picking? That’s false.
The Lakers shot 18/37 from three with 50 points in the paint.
Once again high motion offense.
You failed to post my entire post. Instead of just cropping out the part that doesn’t fit your argument lol
No AD, No clue Luka was on the way.
JJ's zone and high motion offense destroyed ZU and his clips.
Jaxson and Rui interchanging at center.
If you are not trying to overplay lumbering center ball with too many iso post ups, Zu becomes a gigantic road block.
Would I love Zu on our current roster, of course I would. But tbh don't know how effective he would be in JJ's system. Which has proved already can neutralize bigs like Jokic and Zubac from being a deciding factor with their cheap ass flat footed layups
Kobe trashed the owner and asked them to trade Bynum for an old Jason Kidd. Even the greats make bad GM decisions at times. Kobe would have traded BOTH Lamar Odom in his prime and Bynum for Jermaine O'Neal who 2 years after broke down as an athlete. Mitch talked to both teams, and wanted both Kidd/JO, but had the understanding that the trades were bad negotiations for the Lakers.
It's the FO who makes the final calls on those things. The negotiation is not done by the franchise players.
Even if Bron wanted Westbrook, it doesn't mean he's a good GM you listen to. Then even if you trade for WB, doesn't mean it HAD to be bad a deal/situation post trade. If what we gave up, was more in line with us staying deep post trade, re-signing Caruso etc. we could have been a playoff team the following year.
What killed it was what we gave up. 2 FRPs, Kuzma, KCP and letting Caruso walk. Lebron and AD and KLUTCH did not negotiate that ridiculous trade. Rob Pelinka did.
Easily if the team was able to keep KCP out of the deal, re-sign Caruso. The situation isn't nearly as bad. By not re-signing/extending Dennis (who they gave a pick up for) Pelinka HAD to throw in KCP to make the deal work for salaries. Easily the deal could have been done with Dennis instead had the extension/deal been worked out. In which case post trade you have WB/KCP/Caruso/Reaves as your guard core. Sure WB was never going to win a title here but the deal didn't need to be that bad/1 sided. That was 100% on Pelinka. By simply extending Dennis when we traded a pick for him, we would have had salary to use in the WB deal. Then we'd mantain a solid guard core in Reaves/Caruso/KCP post-Westbrook trade. Probably could have seen out the 2 years of WB without needing to throw in the 2027 FRP to get rid of him.
Of course hindsight is always 20-20, it's just that since it's being brought up that Lebron is the one that wanted WB, it's fair to also have a look at what a GM should/could have been doing in that situation. Easily as I said, the deal could have been done without KCP had Dennis been given an extension (which was another mistake, you don't trade a FRP for a player you don't know will extend).
Can't argue the bolded. I think it just needs to be consistent both ways. He lucked into Luka but he also negotiated a lopsided deal in our favor just as he also negotiated a bad deal for Westbrook. I don't think it means any of us have amnesia; you assess on a rolling basis, especially when it comes to someone that had no prior experience.
I think the argument otherwise is that even if he wasn't forced to make the deal, there might have been a tendency to defer to Lebron/Klutch. So it's reasonable to believe we should judge him more for recent and future deals than ones that might have been deferential. The book is not closed on him for sure. The team has had some exciting stretches but we obviously need to see what happens when it really matters. He constructed a championship roster but he also had a very large role in deconstructing it. But like it or not, he's Jeannie's guy for the foreseeable future. I don't think there's anything wrong with perceiving his most recent activities in their entirety as part of a positive trend. _________________ Luxury Tax/FA Spreadsheet (Save to your Google Drive to edit)
^
As I've stated with the AD/Luka moves, he's great at getting Lebron (who decided years in advance before Pelinka that he was coming to retire in LA) a co-star in his prime/peak ahead of him. He deserves credit for that.
However the amount of bad deals greatly outweighs the 2 great deals he made. You cannot hide behind that you traded for elite players. The Suns also traded for an elite player, and it's been awful for them. The Nets traded/signed elite players. You have to roster construct and win titles, that is the Laker standard. We don't celebrate having elite player/HOF's in their prime. Lakers standards are title or bust.
In the end though with this Luka move he has earned a clean slate probably for a few years. He has a number assets to use to get at least a very good core, and he has Lebron still playing at an all-star near MVP level. So he can construct a title here and prove himself and doubters wrong. Plus, to give him some credit, maybe even this year's team can make a title run. Then an argument can be made, they already had enough to win now and he constructed it.
One of my biggest concerns when Rob was named GM is that he didn't have the experience. Negotiating deals for Kobe isn't the same as building a team within the confines of the CBA. Thankfully is less punitive back then.
I don't think he hired an experienced assistant GM or brought in a consultant, so he was learning on the job, and IMO that was a big factor in some of the dumb moves he made or allowed Magic to make.
BUT, just like Zubac or Reaves (hopefully Bronny), he's gained experience and gotten better. I have no doubt he put in the effort, and over the past couple of years I think the moves he's made make more sense either in terms fit within a more modern NBA team or to give him flexibility to make deals in the future.
So there's two reports both saying different things. Why is all the blame being put on Lebron exactly when we've got conflicting reports??
Also the report mentions both AD and Lebron encouraging Rob. why are we omitting AD from this?
.
Truth is always somewhere in the middle
Also you kept mentioning Rob wanted Buddy/Turner yet in the quote it only states Rob wanted Buddy who played in Sacraento during that time. So Turner wasn't even in the picture.
As we all know Buddy sucks. I doubt he's even better than Westbrook right now.
The reports are not saying two different things, they are saying the same things differently. LOL! Westbrook, Bron and AD had a meeting of the minds in Lebron's kitchen, this was reported. Rob aligns with Bron and AD... so the first report saying there were disagreements within the organization, the disagreement wasn't between Rob and Bron/AD, it was most likely between Rob and the Buss boys, even Rambis perhaps? If it's not a disagreement between Rob and Bron/AD, then it's really not news. This is at the height of Klutch's power. So this trade still falls on Bron and AD, and of course... Bron will take the brunt of it, cause he's Bron. _________________ "The game is MORE than just one player. Without Luka, DFS would have been more than enough to replace him based on what we've seen," LakersFever714, the greatest casual of all time.
To be honest, the Sac deal wasn't much better in terms of a talent swap except for the fact that it maintained some flexibility. Hield also sucks despite Rob's infatuation with him.
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