Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2025 10:50 pm Post subject: Center archetype we should pursue?
None of the obtainable (via the ntMLE) free agent options really stand out but just curious how the board is leaning.
Players I don't think we have a shot at without a trade:
Turner (will make more than the ntMLE)
Reid (Minny will probably again offer him slightly more than the MLE to keep I'm off the market) _________________ Luxury Tax/FA Spreadsheet (Save to your Google Drive to edit)
Did you look up his stats before you said he was cooked?
His scoring efficiency is as high as it was seven years ago.
He averages 2 blocks per game.
He never rebounds much because he's always blocking out for other players.
It's crazy how people think LBJ will last five more years when he relies on his athleticism yet Brook who is three years younger is somehow unplayable.
Depends what style we want to play. If we continue to play slower tempo ball, we need more of a low post anchor on both ends. Someone that can fit into a physical hard screen setting, post play, etc. style of game. We probably need a "star" more than a role player.
If we instead choose to push the pace more, then re-signing Hayes and adding talent like Gafford should be a priority. Players who are able to be athletic, get QUICKLY up and down the floor. Coaching is key they have to tell the bigs to post sprint.
Think back to McGee/Howard 19-20 all they did was post sprint. Bron catches the board and they were off. Actually anyone caught the board aside from the big, and the big took off. That's the sort of role big we need, someone that will anchor on D but also get up and down the floor, set hard screens, finish plays created by Luka/Lebron.
IMO we need more of an athletic guard next to Luka/Lebron (Reaves off the bench) and a quality athletic big (and keeping Hayes using bird) than we need a "big star" move. The star move could work as well depending on the player but it won't be easy to get that player.
Most important thing to me is that we need to push the pace and find players that are able to play in a way that enables us to push pace. I'm not saying I know more than JJ, but I don't agree with slow ball when you have Luka/Lebron. You have to push the pace and get as many easy early offense chances as you can get. With JJ we've gotten better halfcourt execution than with Ham, but we push pace less. Now that we have maybe the best PG in the league and maybe the 2 of the top 3 PG's in the game, we need to push the ball more than we do. Of course there's big advantages of having those elite passers in a halfcourt setting, that doesn't mean you can't have the same advantages in the full court.
Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 4252 Location: Space City
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2025 3:23 am Post subject:
Great question. I always fall back on athletic rim runner like we have now and like we had in spades in 19-20 with Javale and Dwight (and AD of course). Certainly a key need for Luka in the offense.
But I’m not certain if we can get that. They will likely be left with the tax payer mid level and I’m thinking Adams, who they showed interest in before will be there get. Kleber+others ( Gabe, Vando, Dalton) plus the first may not get you much.
Jonas Valenciunas _________________ It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points."
A floor-spacing C isn't as needed anymore without AD. You can't have both your C and PF as non-shooters anymore in today's NBA.
It's nice because most of those guys can't play defense.
So, the Lakers should get a rim-running, clean-up, paint protecting big. He should also be able to reasonably survive switches.
Paolo Banchero type _________________ “The main goal for the Lakers is to win a championship. All I care about, all we care about, is to raise another banner in the rafters.“
Since you're keeping it specific to realistic ntmle types it's easily Capela. He's still got plenty left in the tank for a season and may not push for a 2nd year PO due to showcasing in a great situation and chasing a ring. He's a walking double double and could put up 14ppg easily with those lobs.
Now if they can keep Hayes, I get the temptation to get Lopez for gravity and still some blocking ability, or Portis is probably a better fit due to switchability.
Capela makes the most sense. Having a platoon of Capela/Hayes/Maxi with Rui/LeBron/Vando getting spot mins when needed, it'd be more than adequate.
Enter next deadline with the salaries of Capela, Vando, Maxi, Gabe, and Shake to bolster the lineup if we need
Personally, I think the issue we're running into is there's just not enough mins for everyone to go around... especially if you add a starting C and bering Jaxx off the bench. Perhaps a trade for that big (Claxton) helps balance out mins better.
I chose other.
Rim running, Rim protecting, Rebounder 30ish +/- years old or less.
(Think Jaxon as a better rebounder/shot blocker)
Capela came close but is he really a rim runner? An option athletic enough to be a rim runner (I interpret rim runner as credible consistent lob threat?) may be reasonably switchable which is desired, but defensively being able to alter shots at the rim, excellent rebounder, and be an impactful lob threat, would be the skills targeted.
It made it more difficult to choose from the options by putting examples by each choice even tho the archetype was the actual focus. I wouldn’t target any of the players listed. They’re too far outside of the timetable or archetype for Luka.
Rebounding has been the biggest problem…along with 3pt volume and back court defense…the Lakers have had for the last few years. The archetype I would target preferably would include a younger double digit rebounding rim protector capable of rim running like NickRichards/MarkWilliams.
I’d substitute one of the above (not 2) for
Floorspacer(35%ish 3pt,15ish ppg)
Just before I hit enter I talked myself into maybe Capela, I don’t think I’ve considered him before because the lack of floor spacing and overall lack of offense makes his price ~$20m too high. Take him as a trade of Kleber/2ndRd pick? _________________ When reasonably possible, I expect the Lakers to go after a ship like it can’t be denied. I haven’t seen a completely committed effort by the GM for the last 2 off seasons nor the last 2 trade deadlines. What is going on?
@G how you gonna make a thread like this knowing just how much our FO hates Cs. You’re a glutton for punishment expecting this FO to do something about it, my friend.
Anyways, here’s some tidbits to hopefully help drive discussion for your thread, even tho it’s all for naught 😜
Quote:
After being benched in favor of Onyeka Okongwu and dangled in trade talks before the deadline, the early expectation is Hawks center Clint Capela will sign elsewhere in unrestricted free agency this summer, league sources told HoopsHype. – via HoopsHype
Quote:
Bontemps: The general belief from sources around the league on both Reid and Randle is that they'll be back in Minnesota next season, though what form that takes is unclear. Both could potentially opt into their contracts and extend (Reid has a $15 million player option, while Randle's is $29 million) or opt out and sign new deals.
Between Naz Reid, Brook Lopez and Myles Turner, the most interesting position in free agency this summer -- excluding players like Irving, Harden and James that no one expects to change teams -- is at center. We got into Reid's situation above, but both Milwaukee and Indiana find themselves in cash crunches that will complicate the Lopez and Turner situations.
For the Bucks, if Bobby Portis, Pat Connaughton and Kevin Porter Jr. all opt into their player options for next season, Milwaukee will have over $155 million committed to six players -- putting the Bucks just $32 million below the luxury tax with the rest of the roster to fill out. That doesn't leave a lot of room to retain Lopez if the team hopes to stay under the tax. Indiana finds itself in a similar situation with Turner.
Windhorst: Team sources told me the Pacers absolutely want to keep Turner, who is closing in on his 700th game for the franchise. But Indiana has to manage a cash crunch. They are currently projected to be about $22 million below next season's luxury tax without Turner, and he'll probably be looking for a significant raise on his current $19.9 million salary. The Pacers haven't paid the luxury tax since 2005, and there are no plans to go into it next season, sources said. Keeping Turner is going to require some negotiating and some maneuvering.
Bontemps: On the flip side of the negotiations for Lopez and Turner, however, is the depressed center market around the league. There are only a couple of teams with significant cap space this summer, and none of them is going to be targeting a big-money, veteran center.
So for both Lopez and Turner, their only real leverage in negotiations could be to take the full midlevel with another team. But that would be a pay cut for both players. As a result, how hard of a bargain will Indiana and Milwaukee drive for their big men? As the salary structure around the league gets more restrictive as the new collective bargaining agreement fully comes online, these are the types of negotiations that could be a lot thornier than they have been in the past.
As for my vote…it’s Mr. Turner by a myle. Dude has proven to be a capable starter with his minutes and won’t likely be played off the floor in the postseason, cause his stretch capability makes him not matchup averse. Dude woulda already been here had we traded our ‘27/‘29 picks for him in 2022 when he was likely available by Indy in their RFA Ayton pursuit. And yes, you coulda teamed Luka up with dude if AD & Myles didn’t end up working out, cause Nico was obviously targeting AD more than that ‘29 pick and with our ‘31 pick unlocked to trade this year, that coulda just been bundled with AD instead.
Anyways, shouldawouldacoulda and probably still won’t, cause our FO doesn’t cee it that way. 🥸 _________________ Not familiar with the salary cap/CBA rules & how it impacts our Lakers?
#GetFamiliar by CLICKING HERE!
Last edited by vasashi17+ on Fri Mar 28, 2025 6:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
A floor-spacing C isn't as needed anymore without AD. You can't have both your C and PF as non-shooters anymore in today's NBA.
It's nice because most of those guys can't play defense.
So, the Lakers should get a rim-running, clean-up, paint protecting big. He should also be able to reasonably survive switches.
Good point. It'll be interesting how/if the team views the center position differently moving forward, especially to the point V and others have made about the apparent de-prioritization of the center position over the years.
We're obviously not going to find a center who checks all the boxes with the ntMLE. Nor do we have the assets or payroll structure to trade for one. Off the top of my head, Mobley probably checks more boxes than anyone not named Wemby. But short of a Koby Altman going Nico on his team, I think I'd settle on the rim runner too. Of course, whether or not we retain Hayes is a large factor. I know neither are sexy options to start but I'd be intrigued with a Hayes/Portis platoon which would be even more amazing with Koloko/Kleber respectively as their lite options. _________________ Luxury Tax/FA Spreadsheet (Save to your Google Drive to edit)
From the team construction point of view, we can have two types of center on the team to make lineup changes more flexible. We should keep Hayes, so that's your athletic rim runner which means a stretch 5 would be very useful. JJ likes switching defense, and this makes Portis a better fit for this team.
From the team construction point of view, we can have two types of center on the team to make lineup changes more flexible. We should keep Hayes, so that's your athletic rim runner which means a stretch 5 would be very useful. JJ likes switching defense, and this makes Portis a better fit for this team.
Yes, this is a great point. But if you can somehow get Turner, you get him and call it a day - yes this is a pipe-dream.
If not Turner, your scenario makes good sense (different look) plus try getting a Hayes-type as your 3rd center - maybe develop from the draft or perhaps convince Capela to come for cheap, or hope Koloko develops.
Joined: 14 Jan 2003 Posts: 4024 Location: The official trout slapper of LG.net
Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2025 7:11 am Post subject:
It's surprisingly obvious that a number of people here are not seeing why this team has been so successful on defense lately. Targeting a more traditional big that patrols the paint (like Brook) would actually disrupt what Redick is doing. Look at why Hayes has been so successful. He is an athletic big that can step out, switch and defend 1-5. If that is what we plan on continuing to do, then that is the type of big we should be attempting to acquire.
An extreme example of that would be someone like Giannis. Ignore what he would do for us on the offense. It is defensively what we would love to have. Plus, he roles to the basket for the lobs. Athleticism is what should be the focus. If he has any range on offense, that would certainly help.
If I were to construct an ideal player, we need another Jaxson Hayes, but at a starting caliber level. Basically, clone Hayes, and in video game terms, move his slider in rebounding several clicks to the right and maybe his shot blocking a click or two as well. A player like that would not break the bank, but would thrive on this team. A couple of players that appear to meet that criteria would be Onyeka Okongwu (Hawks) and Daniel Gafford (Mavs). _________________ Don't make me give you a trout slap!
It's surprisingly obvious that a number of people here are not seeing why this team has been so successful on defense lately. Targeting a more traditional big that patrols the paint (like Brook) would actually disrupt what Redick is doing. Look at why Hayes has been so successful. He is an athletic big that can step out, switch and defend 1-5. If that is what we plan on continuing to do, then that is the type of big we should be attempting to acquire.
An extreme example of that would be someone like Giannis. Ignore what he would do for us on the offense. It is defensively what we would love to have. Plus, he roles to the basket for the lobs. Athleticism is what should be the focus. If he has any range on offense, that would certainly help.
If I were to construct an ideal player, we need another Jaxson Hayes, but at a starting caliber level. Basically, clone Hayes, and in video game terms, move his slider in rebounding several clicks to the right and maybe his shot blocking a click or two as well. A player like that would not break the bank, but would thrive on this team. A couple of players that appear to meet that criteria would be Onyeka Okongwu (Hawks) and Daniel Gafford (Mavs).
Good take, same ^^^…rebounding, shot blocking, and athletically skilled enough to be a significant consistent potent lob threat with decent switchabilty. I’d take a Myles Turner without question…sacrificing rebounding for floor spacing…but ultimately prefer a cheaper C as described like Richards/Kessler/Williams so that other assets can be used on a dual threat (offensive/defense) guard.
My dream off season is adding Turner/Grimes to Hayes/LBJ/Rui/DFS/AR/Luka for a potent 8-man rotation but I haven’t mapped out a way to get them both. Maybe if LBJ signs for $20m then space could be used for Grimes with a follow up sign and trade for Turner but not sure if even that will work under the CBA.
I would be satisfied with Gafford or Okon for sure tho!!! _________________ When reasonably possible, I expect the Lakers to go after a ship like it can’t be denied. I haven’t seen a completely committed effort by the GM for the last 2 off seasons nor the last 2 trade deadlines. What is going on?
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 31122 Location: La La Land
Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2025 9:07 am Post subject:
kikanga wrote:
We should draft a Center.
I would take a look at Amari Williams coming out of Kentucky.
The best teams have bigs that:
(1) protect the paint on D,
(2) space the floor on O.
Extra special bigs can do those things and can:
(3) lob threat in the pick and roll on O,
(4) playmake and throw passes operating at the top of the key/3pt line on O,
(5) switch and guard players decently on the perimeter on D.
Instead of paying Myles Turner $20M a year to do only (1) and (2).
I'd rather use the only pick I think we have (late 2nd round) on a guy like Amari Williams for 1/10 to 1/5 the price.
We really need to try and hit in the draft and find our own Dereck Lively II. I admit it is a risk. You may end up with a Willie Caulie Stein-like bust.
But Amari does (1), (3), and (4). With the potential to do (5) as well. He may go undrafted. So you could use your pick on someone else and still get him for camp.
It's worth mentioning, (3) is important for a P&R partner for Luka. I think Luka will make the game really simple for him on Offense. Same way he did with Lively. _________________ When the world grows. Grow with it.
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