Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2025 1:03 am Post subject: Re: Reaves & Caruso
PinoyLBJFan wrote:
both are great with the lakers. will they have a chance in the future to play together?
Probably not. He still has 4 years and $80m left on his OKC contract after this season. He'd be a 35 year old, possibly looking at retirement. And it probably doesn't make sense to trade for him, he seems to be on the downside of his career and maybe overpaid given his injury history.
Maybe we could get him back on a minimum in the twilight of his career.
Caruso is the most overhyped player in Lakers history, outside of Lonzo Ball.
No thanks.
I disagree. I don't think most view him as an all-star. The thing you have to take into account is balance, on defense and also even on offense when your stars have the ball in their hands.
What did Caruso do so well? He took the toughest defensive assignment, he was a POA defender, he was able to scrap and claw his way through nearly most tough screens. He's by no means Scottie Pippen, but he had a lot of defensive impact. Max Christie was actually developing nicely in that regard (but Max strikes me more as a KCP level defender than Caruso).
Then on offense, the ability to move off the ball and run on the break. You always could count on him to move when Lebron had the ball in his hands.
When you look at our small ball tactics even, Caruso would fit in exactly where Max left off, only better. Don't tell me that Luka/Lebron/Reaves/Caruso wouldn't be awesome. They'd be crazy good. Get a defender at the 5 who can set great screens for Luka, rim protect, I guarantee you Luka's gonna lead that team to a title. Balanced lineup. Just throwing it out there - but if we say had Lively level guy at the 5 (since he has experience with Luka in Dallas) + Caruso next to Lebron/Luka/Reaves, I'd bet money that Luka's first title as a Laker comes shortly. All great teams have those great side role players. That's what Caruso was.
To credit our current team, guys like Hayes, Rui and DFS are doing real solid jobs in their own right. Our top 6 with Hayes/Rui/DFS + big 3 of Luka/Lebron/Reaves is real good, but lets see what Hayes/DFS/Rui do as role guys in playoff series.
Caruso is the most overhyped player in Lakers history, outside of Lonzo Ball.
No thanks.
I disagree. I don't think most view him as an all-star. The thing you have to take into account is balance, on defense and also even on offense when your stars have the ball in their hands.
What did Caruso do so well? He took the toughest defensive assignment, he was a POA defender, he was able to scrap and claw his way through nearly most tough screens. He's by no means Scottie Pippen, but he had a lot of defensive impact. Max Christie was actually developing nicely in that regard (but Max strikes me more as a KCP level defender than Caruso).
Then on offense, the ability to move off the ball and run on the break. You always could count on him to move when Lebron had the ball in his hands.
When you look at our small ball tactics even, Caruso would fit in exactly where Max left off, only better. Don't tell me that Luka/Lebron/Reaves/Caruso wouldn't be awesome. They'd be crazy good. Get a defender at the 5 who can set great screens for Luka, rim protect, I guarantee you Luka's gonna lead that team to a title. Balanced lineup. Just throwing it out there - but if we say had Lively level guy at the 5 (since he has experience with Luka in Dallas) + Caruso next to Lebron/Luka/Reaves, I'd bet money that Luka's first title as a Laker comes shortly. All great teams have those great side role players. That's what Caruso was.
To credit our current team, guys like Hayes, Rui and DFS are doing real solid jobs in their own right. Our top 6 with Hayes/Rui/DFS + big 3 of Luka/Lebron/Reaves is real good, but lets see what Hayes/DFS/Rui do as role guys in playoff series.
Still pissed with Caruso for letting Cameron Payne light him on fire in the 2021 playoffs. I think that's ultimately why he isn't in a Lakers uni today. Good player but not worth 80 mil to me. Rather have Vando who has the size and a slightly lesser version of Caruso in Goodwin
Last edited by Kobe_Is_King13 on Tue Apr 15, 2025 3:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
Caruso is the most overhyped player in Lakers history, outside of Lonzo Ball.
No thanks.
I disagree. I don't think most view him as an all-star. The thing you have to take into account is balance, on defense and also even on offense when your stars have the ball in their hands.
What did Caruso do so well? He took the toughest defensive assignment, he was a POA defender, he was able to scrap and claw his way through nearly most tough screens. He's by no means Scottie Pippen, but he had a lot of defensive impact. Max Christie was actually developing nicely in that regard (but Max strikes me more as a KCP level defender than Caruso).
Then on offense, the ability to move off the ball and run on the break. You always could count on him to move when Lebron had the ball in his hands.
When you look at our small ball tactics even, Caruso would fit in exactly where Max left off, only better. Don't tell me that Luka/Lebron/Reaves/Caruso wouldn't be awesome. They'd be crazy good. Get a defender at the 5 who can set great screens for Luka, rim protect, I guarantee you Luka's gonna lead that team to a title. Balanced lineup. Just throwing it out there - but if we say had Lively level guy at the 5 (since he has experience with Luka in Dallas) + Caruso next to Lebron/Luka/Reaves, I'd bet money that Luka's first title as a Laker comes shortly. All great teams have those great side role players. That's what Caruso was.
To credit our current team, guys like Hayes, Rui and DFS are doing real solid jobs in their own right. Our top 6 with Hayes/Rui/DFS + big 3 of Luka/Lebron/Reaves is real good, but lets see what Hayes/DFS/Rui do as role guys in playoff series.
Caruso would have the Jordan Goodwin role on the Lakers. A much better Goodwin but still limited impact. We again saw Caruso's limitations first-hand playing OKC. He is pretty close to useless against bigger attackers who can easily bully him - both Lebron and Luka treated him like a turnstile. This was KCP's weakness as well. At his price and the value he would provide with the punitive CBA, Im not sure Caruso is the guy we would want even if we could take him back for free at his expensive contract. I might stick with dirt cheap Goodwin and pray he develops and look to fill other holes - say a Hayes upgrade for example.
Well I said he ain’t Pippen. Everyone has an off series. But have a look at his defensive metrics and his 2 man dual rating on offense with LeBron. The same chemistry he had with LBj easily translates to Luka and Caruso. Caruso with OKC is a different fit than Caruso with us. We have elite guards who handle the ball who are low impact/motor on D. OKc is mostly youth and young legs and Caruso is a bench guy who brings some vet leadership and D.
The discussion is about 80M is another one all together. I’m talking about when we actually let him go. I’m not saying I agree with what OKC have given him, but they traded Giddy for him so they needed to secure him long term and over pay him.
Unlike our GM who trades assets for Dennis and then lets him walk, OKC is well run. If their GM was in LA we’d have more titles easily. Anyways, don’t wanna make this a GM vs GM thing. Reason OKC gave him that big deal is they didn’t want to lose him to FA after giving up a big time asset in Giddy. We should have done the same with Dennis immediately after we traded 2 assets for him.
Last edited by wolfpaclaker on Tue Apr 15, 2025 7:01 am; edited 3 times in total
The question is: would there have been space for AR to develop if Caruso was on the Lakers?
AR got space to grow only because THT flamed out so badly. Had we kept AC over Talen, AR might have been a trade throw in like Svi or Wagner. _________________ On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns".
What’s not being hyped enough is how he played off of and perfectly complimented Bron (and AD), yet was let go due to finances, when we had all the more reason to go for broke during our title years with that Bron/AD duo. We didn’t go all-in and now we know that it possibly costed us titleS as a result.
You moved mountains and MozDengs to finally get a piece of that manna and then you decide to pinch pennies instead of go for broke with the Kang. That $hit never made any cents to me….
That being said, Reavus is up for an extension this summer, which actually would pay him less if he instead rode out this next season and opted out as 25% max candidate for the ‘26 summer instead. Hopefully we show him his worth and pay him accordingly or flip him while we still can…please don’t leave us, Reavus 🙏🏼 _________________ Not familiar with the salary cap/CBA rules & how it impacts our Lakers?
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Joined: 15 Jul 2002 Posts: 7197 Location: searching for the mojo of Dr. Buss
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2025 10:26 am Post subject:
Perfectly happy developing Goodwin and Knecht... no need for Caruso and I do not think he's overhyped. But the Lakers are suddenly pretty good with guard and wing players.
Need big bodies. That's where all the money should go. _________________ "He may say it's not you, it's him.... but it's really you."
The question is: would there have been space for AR to develop if Caruso was on the Lakers?
AR got space to grow only because THT flamed out so badly. Had we kept AC over Talen, AR might have been a trade throw in like Svi or Wagner.
Would AR have even signed with LA if AC was on the team? He wanted minutes and space to develop, which is why he asked Detroit not to draft him in the second round so he could come here instead where we had basically an open roster for him to compete for and he saw an opportunity. If AC was still here, good chance he would have locked in that starting two guard role and AR might have signed a two way somewhere else, especially if we has kept THT as well.
Joined: 19 Nov 2007 Posts: 4839 Location: Lake Nacimiento
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2025 3:39 pm Post subject:
mhan00 wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:
The question is: would there have been space for AR to develop if Caruso was on the Lakers?
AR got space to grow only because THT flamed out so badly. Had we kept AC over Talen, AR might have been a trade throw in like Svi or Wagner.
Would AR have even signed with LA if AC was on the team? He wanted minutes and space to develop, which is why he asked Detroit not to draft him in the second round so he could come here instead where we had basically an open roster for him to compete for and he saw an opportunity. If AC was still here, good chance he would have locked in that starting two guard role and AR might have signed a two way somewhere else.
I remember listening to a Lakers podcast last Year I believe.. They were saying the same thing and that AR's camp was trying to direct him to a place he had a good opportunity to get playing time. It honestly worked out best for the Lakers imo. In retrospect they should have kept Caruso over THT but it's MUCH easier to say that now that we know THT didn't continue to develop into much at all and Caruso clearly rebounded well after the big highs and lows of that final Season with the Lakers.
In the end we had a great situation for AR on top of him also wanting to be a Laker. He's become a significantly better overall player then Caruso at this point so much like the crying about Zu, I don't get this either. None of us know for sure at all if AR and his "team" would have still had us as the top destination for him if Caruso was still here. Rob has plenty to criticize about like every other GM in the NBA but this and Zu aint it to me at least.
Overrated or not Caruso's was well worth the 10 million that the Lakers could have signed him for. The decision to sign Talen and pass on Caruso was awful. It would be huge to have him to guard Ant right now.
Last edited by ducasse on Tue Apr 15, 2025 4:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
No one loved the Bald Eagle more than your boy LakerLanny, but Reaves is a far better NBA player...he is a stone cold killer. _________________ Love, Laker Lanny
Joined: 03 Oct 2003 Posts: 8927 Location: Santa Monica
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2025 3:59 am Post subject:
vasashi17+ wrote:
Caruso is overhyped??? Really?
What’s not being hyped enough is how he played off of and perfectly complimented Bron (and AD), yet was let go due to finances, when we had all the more reason to go for broke during our title years with that Bron/AD duo. We didn’t go all-in and now we know that it possibly costed us titleS as a result.
You moved mountains and MozDengs to finally get a piece of that manna and then you decide to pinch pennies instead of go for broke with the Kang. That $hit never made any cents to me….
That being said, Reavus is up for an extension this summer, which actually would pay him less if he instead rode out this next season and opted out as 25% max candidate for the ‘26 summer instead. Hopefully we show him his worth and pay him accordingly or flip him while we still can…please don’t leave us, Reavus 🙏🏼
Caruso is a very good or great defender and a decent but inconsistent 3-point shooter who has no other real skills. Wolfpac mentioned how he runs on the break, but how often did we really see him get out on the wing and finish? His dunks were exciting, but they didn't happen that often, and he couldn't run the break as a ball-handler either.
When he was here, there were people on this board who stubbornly insisted that he deserved to be on the All-Star team. In fact, one year, he was one of the leading vote-getters for the West All-Star team, and the coaches who vote for the reserves had to set things straight so that Caruso wouldn't actually make the team.
Arguing that a 3-and-D role player who almost always came off the bench for us and often wasn't a real 3-point threat should've been an All-Star is massively overhyping that player. That's the truth, full stop.
Having said that, it would've been nice to keep him at a reasonable price in 2021. That was one of the moves that sent us into purgatory and left us bereft of trade capital. _________________ Lakers 49ers Chargers Dodgers
Caruso or DFS? Similar money _________________ “The main goal for the Lakers is to win a championship. All I care about, all we care about, is to raise another banner in the rafters.“
When he was here, there were people on this board who stubbornly insisted that he deserved to be on the All-Star team. In fact, one year, he was one of the leading vote-getters for the West All-Star team, and the coaches who vote for the reserves had to set things straight so that Caruso wouldn't actually make the team.
Arguing that a 3-and-D role player who almost always came off the bench for us and often wasn't a real 3-point threat should've been an All-Star is massively overhyping that player. That's the truth, full stop.
No one said every fan is rationale. We had fans here including a moderator whose posts were seen as expert analysis and the gospel who compared DLO to the next Harden, borderline Curry. This is at a time when Harden was at his peak. Dropping insane numbers. If you told anyone back then that DLO wasn't going to be a star, the majority of the fanbase hated on you. It got so bad here with overhyping and people being zealots of the youth program that I became a lurker. The Ingram wars? Another example. You'd have a lot of fans who were so sure he's the next KD.
So yeah, it is part of what happens. Fans can overhype players. Those are some extreme takes. Doesn't mean the player himself isn't really damn good and valuable.
For example, we heard a lot of crap about what the team gave up on Randle, DLO, Ingram. However the player I felt we gave up on that we shouldn't have is Hart. He was the one really valuable player in that lot who didn't even resemble an all-star but could play a star in his role next to a legit superstar. By that same token, I've come to appreciate Caruso, KCP. In hindsight I would have much preferred to deal Kuz in the Pelicans deal and keep Hart. Hart is a much more valuable player than Kuz. And the Pels didn't do squat with Hart.
Reaves is not that kind of player, he is more of a legit offensive talent that you can give the ball to and let him create. This is a wonderful story. With Reaves, saying that he may be an all-star caliber player is not so much a stretch IMO. Not anymore. That said, it remains to be seen if you ignore the Caruso, KCP, Hart type of players, and only invest in the more obvious talents, if that leads to more winning.
The Knicks even last year, to me, they went on that run not because of Randle, or even OG. It was the contributions of Hartenstein, Donte, Hart etc that helped Brunson get a few rounds deep. These role guys play a big part in winning. Caruso to me was one of those types.
On our end the great news is we do have some of those kinds of "star in their role" types. DFS, Rui are both those kind of players it seems. Before we traded him, Max was a guy emerging like that, too. I don't think JJ likes to play big, but I feel we underrate Hayes. He has elite length and above average athleticism. We should try to develop him into that 25 min a night big. He has potential. Longterm since we have his early bird rights, we should try to lock him in on a solid deal.
At this stage, DFS. Expiring contract/1 year left. Has proven chemistry with Luka. I wouldn't have given Caruso the contract OKC did. To me that was too much, but then again, their GM values assets. He traded a significant asset for Caruso and wanted to not lose him immediately to FA. Our GM did the exact opposite with Dennis and a host of other situations.
We're also needing size at the moment, so there's that too. DFS can give you minutes in small at 4/3.
At this stage, DFS. Expiring contract/1 year left. Has proven chemistry with Luka. I wouldn't have given Caruso the contract OKC did. To me that was too much, but then again, their GM values assets. He traded a significant asset for Caruso and wanted to not lose him immediately to FA. Our GM did the exact opposite with Dennis and a host of other situations.
We're also needing size at the moment, so there's that too. DFS can give you minutes in small at 4/3.
DFS of course, age and size and a better three point shooter are the reasons. Caruso keeps getting reputation of being a great defender, does he still getting those from his Laker days? lately he's been pretty injury prone, and hasn't done nothing noteworthy in the playoffs.
At this stage, DFS. Expiring contract/1 year left. Has proven chemistry with Luka. I wouldn't have given Caruso the contract OKC did. To me that was too much, but then again, their GM values assets. He traded a significant asset for Caruso and wanted to not lose him immediately to FA. Our GM did the exact opposite with Dennis and a host of other situations.
We're also needing size at the moment, so there's that too. DFS can give you minutes in small at 4/3.
DFS of course, age and size and a better three point shooter are the reasons. Caruso keeps getting reputation of being a great defender, does he still getting those from his Laker days? lately he's been pretty injury prone, and hasn't done nothing noteworthy in the playoffs.
Caruso has great defensive metrics, but I wouldn't feel comfortable having him guard 4s and 5s like DFS does. Also, DFS is far superior from 3. _________________ On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns".
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