Love > Oden
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Buddha
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:26 am    Post subject: Love > Oden

I know that the people who love to equate freakish athleticism with "greatness" will try to fight me to the death on this one, but I'm sorry, this kid is younger and probably already has a more polished post game than Oden ever will.

The only thing Oden will do significantly better is block shots, but even then he still needs a 10 foul cushion to get them.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:29 am    Post subject:

wow man. at least watch both of them play a few regular season games 1st
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:35 am    Post subject:

Adamas wrote:
wow man. at least watch both of them play a few regular season games 1st


No one followed that mantra when this entire site declared Oden > Bynum just one year ago.

Anyways, I've seen them both play in college and in summer league. It's clear that Love > Oden. The only reason people might not want to admit it is because they have a tendency to fall in love with "athletic potential". The more athletic a player is, the more fans are willing to put on blinders about the poor skill set of that player. See Kwame Brown and Gerald Green.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:37 am    Post subject:

Buddha wrote:
Adamas wrote:
wow man. at least watch both of them play a few regular season games 1st


No one followed that mantra when this entire site declared Oden > Bynum just one year ago.

Anyways, I've seen them both play in college and in summer league. It's clear that Love > Oden. The only reason people might not want to admit it is because they have a tendency to fall in love with "athletic potential". The more athletic a player is, the more fans are willing to put on blinders about the poor skill set of that player. See Kwame Brown and Gerald Green.

to tell you the truth, i haven't really paid much attention to either of them.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:17 am    Post subject:

So we're comparing summer league performances? Because they are two rookies so it's not like we've seen them against real NBA competition.

Next year Love may put up better stats because he's playing on a crappy MN team and Oden is playing on a stacked Blazers team.

Maybe Love is the 2nd coming of his new (jackass) GM, but he hasn't done anything to prove that yet. And Oden hasn't done anything to prove that he has a chance of being better than Bynum, yet.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:46 am    Post subject:

Being good in Summer League only means that a player is good in Summer League. It means virtually nothing about how well they will do when the season actually starts.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:16 am    Post subject:

Oden is still coming off micro-fracture. He might never be the same.

The Oden you saw dominate Noah, and Horford is the real Oden. Oden had to play with 1 hand in college. I'm an OSU fan, but there is a BIG part of me that doesn't want him to do well because Portland in 2-3 years scares the **** out of me.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:32 am    Post subject:

kevin love is better than oden thread? lol. whats next? pukes better than ariza?
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:57 am    Post subject:

Buddha wrote:
Adamas wrote:
wow man. at least watch both of them play a few regular season games 1st


No one followed that mantra when this entire site declared Oden > Bynum just one year ago.

Anyways, I've seen them both play in college and in summer league. It's clear that Love > Oden. The only reason people might not want to admit it is because they have a tendency to fall in love with "athletic potential". The more athletic a player is, the more fans are willing to put on blinders about the poor skill set of that player. See Kwame Brown and Gerald Green.


Being that we haven't seen Oden at full strength (including college), I'm not sure how you can make that statement.
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Buddha
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:23 am    Post subject:

TACH wrote:
Buddha wrote:
Adamas wrote:
wow man. at least watch both of them play a few regular season games 1st


No one followed that mantra when this entire site declared Oden > Bynum just one year ago.

Anyways, I've seen them both play in college and in summer league. It's clear that Love > Oden. The only reason people might not want to admit it is because they have a tendency to fall in love with "athletic potential". The more athletic a player is, the more fans are willing to put on blinders about the poor skill set of that player. See Kwame Brown and Gerald Green.


Being that we haven't seen Oden at full strength (including college), I'm not sure how you can make that statement.


Easy: one has solid fundamental skill, the other doesn't have any. And Oden's injury (his wrist) shouldn't have prevented him from bullying his way around the paint.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:53 am    Post subject:

Buddha wrote:
TACH wrote:
Buddha wrote:
Adamas wrote:
wow man. at least watch both of them play a few regular season games 1st


No one followed that mantra when this entire site declared Oden > Bynum just one year ago.

Anyways, I've seen them both play in college and in summer league. It's clear that Love > Oden. The only reason people might not want to admit it is because they have a tendency to fall in love with "athletic potential". The more athletic a player is, the more fans are willing to put on blinders about the poor skill set of that player. See Kwame Brown and Gerald Green.


Being that we haven't seen Oden at full strength (including college), I'm not sure how you can make that statement.


Easy: one has solid fundamental skill, the other doesn't have any. And Oden's injury (his wrist) shouldn't have prevented him from bullying his way around the paint.


It didn't, and he's the reason OSU made it to the NCAA Championship game.

Again, being that you have not seen Oden at full strength, I'm not sure what you are basing your claim on.

If Love was one year older, and was in the same freshman class as Oden, do you think Love would of been the overall number 1 pick? Hell, he wouldn't even gone higher than Durant.

As for 'athletic potential', I give you, Kobe, Wade, Durant, KG, etc..... Sometimes 'athletic potential is warranted, and accurate....

You are dismissing Oden, and we haven't seen him play yet... Hell, we haven't even seen Love play in the L yet (Summer League, as much as you may want it too does not count).


Last edited by TACH on Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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Buddha
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:59 am    Post subject:

TACH wrote:
Buddha wrote:
TACH wrote:
Buddha wrote:
Adamas wrote:
wow man. at least watch both of them play a few regular season games 1st


No one followed that mantra when this entire site declared Oden > Bynum just one year ago.

Anyways, I've seen them both play in college and in summer league. It's clear that Love > Oden. The only reason people might not want to admit it is because they have a tendency to fall in love with "athletic potential". The more athletic a player is, the more fans are willing to put on blinders about the poor skill set of that player. See Kwame Brown and Gerald Green.


Being that we haven't seen Oden at full strength (including college), I'm not sure how you can make that statement.


Easy: one has solid fundamental skill, the other doesn't have any. And Oden's injury (his wrist) shouldn't have prevented him from bullying his way around the paint.


It didn't


It apparently did every time he played anyone over 6'8.

Quote:
and he's the reason OSU made it to the NCAA Championship game.


Actually, their collegiate star studded lineup was the reason.

Quote:
Again, being that you have not seen Oden at full strength, I'm not sure what you are basing your claim on.


Again, being that he had little skills to begin with and his injury didn't prevent him from using his athleticism, my argument stands.

Quote:
If Love was one year older, and was in the same freshman class as Oden, do you think Love would of been the overall number 1 pick? Hell, he wouldn't even gone higher than Durant.


Fallacious argument. See my "sucker for athleticism" explanation. Now see Kwame Brown at the #1 pick and Pau Gasol at the #3 pick.
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TACH
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:17 am    Post subject:

Buddha wrote:
TACH wrote:
Buddha wrote:
TACH wrote:
Buddha wrote:
Adamas wrote:
wow man. at least watch both of them play a few regular season games 1st


No one followed that mantra when this entire site declared Oden > Bynum just one year ago.

Anyways, I've seen them both play in college and in summer league. It's clear that Love > Oden. The only reason people might not want to admit it is because they have a tendency to fall in love with "athletic potential". The more athletic a player is, the more fans are willing to put on blinders about the poor skill set of that player. See Kwame Brown and Gerald Green.


Being that we haven't seen Oden at full strength (including college), I'm not sure how you can make that statement.


Easy: one has solid fundamental skill, the other doesn't have any. And Oden's injury (his wrist) shouldn't have prevented him from bullying his way around the paint.


It didn't


It apparently did every time he played anyone over 6'8.

Quote:
and he's the reason OSU made it to the NCAA Championship game.


Actually, their collegiate star studded lineup was the reason.

Quote:
Again, being that you have not seen Oden at full strength, I'm not sure what you are basing your claim on.


Again, being that he had little skills to begin with and his injury didn't prevent him from using his athleticism, my argument stands.

Quote:
If Love was one year older, and was in the same freshman class as Oden, do you think Love would of been the overall number 1 pick? Hell, he wouldn't even gone higher than Durant.


Fallacious argument. See my "sucker for athleticism" explanation. Now see Kwame Brown at the #1 pick and Pau Gasol at the #3 pick.


Fallacious to you.... but again, would he have gone 1 or 2 in that draft class? I read your 'sucker for athleticism'. Your argument stand only if it can stand on water.... You keep throw up Kwame Brown as an example, and I can throw up dozens that have lived up to and surpassed their 'athletic potential', so you are not really proven anything except some live up to it, some don't.

The fact is, Oden was not a full strength... in fact he had a wrist and knee problem and still carried his team to the Championship Game... without Oden, OSU doesn't get there... And this is what you are basing you argument on... a guy who got HIS team to the Champions Game with a bust wrist and knee...

I'm not even sure why you are even making the comparison..... I'm out....
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Buddha
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:35 am    Post subject:

TACH wrote:
Buddha wrote:
TACH wrote:
Buddha wrote:
TACH wrote:
Buddha wrote:
Adamas wrote:
wow man. at least watch both of them play a few regular season games 1st


No one followed that mantra when this entire site declared Oden > Bynum just one year ago.

Anyways, I've seen them both play in college and in summer league. It's clear that Love > Oden. The only reason people might not want to admit it is because they have a tendency to fall in love with "athletic potential". The more athletic a player is, the more fans are willing to put on blinders about the poor skill set of that player. See Kwame Brown and Gerald Green.


Being that we haven't seen Oden at full strength (including college), I'm not sure how you can make that statement.


Easy: one has solid fundamental skill, the other doesn't have any. And Oden's injury (his wrist) shouldn't have prevented him from bullying his way around the paint.


It didn't


It apparently did every time he played anyone over 6'8.

Quote:
and he's the reason OSU made it to the NCAA Championship game.


Actually, their collegiate star studded lineup was the reason.

Quote:
Again, being that you have not seen Oden at full strength, I'm not sure what you are basing your claim on.


Again, being that he had little skills to begin with and his injury didn't prevent him from using his athleticism, my argument stands.

Quote:
If Love was one year older, and was in the same freshman class as Oden, do you think Love would of been the overall number 1 pick? Hell, he wouldn't even gone higher than Durant.


Fallacious argument. See my "sucker for athleticism" explanation. Now see Kwame Brown at the #1 pick and Pau Gasol at the #3 pick.


Fallacious to you.... but again, would he have gone 1 or 2 in that draft class?


No, it's fallacious because you're using draft position to measure actual productivity.

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I read your 'sucker for athleticism'. Your argument stand only if it can stand on water....


It stands with history behind it.

Quote:
You keep throw up Kwame Brown as an example, and I can throw up dozens that have lived up to and surpassed their 'athletic potential'


The difference being that those players had incredible skill to go along with their athleticism. Oden does not (as of yet).

Quote:
o you are not really proven anything except some live up to it, some don't.


No, I'm proving that people indeed are blinded by athletic potential, regardless of other factors. While some athletic prospects may indeed possess great skill, other don't, yet most fans don't care one or another as long as that prospect has athleticism.

Quote:
The fact is, Oden was not a full strength... in fact he had a wrist and knee problem


The fact is that he didn't have a knee problem then, and his wrist wasn't the reason he was shut down some games.

Quote:
and still carried his team to the Championship Game... without Oden, OSU doesn't get there...


Sorry, but no Conley, no championship game either. Oden was 15/10, not 25/15 like Shaq.

Quote:
And this is what you are basing you argument on... a guy who got HIS team to the Champions Game with a bust wrist and knee...


Simplistic logic. In that case: UCLA got there all because of Kevin Love. No one else. All because of one player.

Quote:
I'm not even sure why you are even making the comparison..... I'm out....


They're both low post bigmen of the future. I thought this was obvious.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:28 pm    Post subject:

Tach dont even bother its like arguing with a tree stump. According to people like Buddha everyone with out a polished offensive game wont make it in this league. You cant play based on just athleticism (Amare?) You can make it on Great D and Just a limited Offensive Game (Alonzo Mourning?) Yet either on of those players would be GREAT if they wore a Lakers uni. I have a feeling that He will change his tune.. along with many others When Oden plays. And he always seems to look past the Draft argument too that you make.. which is a legitimate one. Sure Love is more fundamental yet he would NEVER be taken over Oden in a draft. Yet Oden cant live up to his potential when he hasnt even played yet.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:40 pm    Post subject:

Love is a outstanding highly skilled player, but you would be fired and ran out of town for choosing Oden over Love. Oden style guys only come around once a decade. He has a chance to literally rebuild the position of center. (Bynum is very good, but what Oden can do defensively will be Mutomboish, and he's a better offensive player then Mutombo)
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:54 pm    Post subject:

C-BUS LAKERFAN wrote:
Oden is still coming off micro-fracture. He might never be the same.

The Oden you saw dominate Noah, and Horford is the real Oden. Oden had to play with 1 hand in college. I'm an OSU fan, but there is a BIG part of me that doesn't want him to do well because Portland in 2-3 years scares the **** out of me.
Me too man...Me too
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:02 pm    Post subject:

Loves a more complete player right now, but he doesn't have the size, reach, and physical tools of Oden. If Oden is right physically, he will be the better player, easily.

That being said, in the right situation, Love should be a very nice pro.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:40 am    Post subject:

Are you kidding me?

Love will average 10 points and 7 boards per game, and be a good role player. Oden will average around 15/10 per game, along with 2-3 blocks while filling the role of a defensive anchor.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:07 am    Post subject:

Funny that someone even bigger than Kevin Love with similar skill level across the board isn't exactly the most dominating player...

... Andrew Bogut.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:09 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Funny that someone even bigger than Kevin Love with similar skill level across the board isn't exactly the most dominating player...

... Andrew Bogut.


+1

I just don't think that Love will produce like a Top 5 pick is expected to produce
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:40 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Funny that someone even bigger than Kevin Love with similar skill level across the board isn't exactly the most dominating player...

... Andrew Bogut.


Yet he was more "dominating" than the "athletic freak" in college.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:00 pm    Post subject:

I get it Buddha, you are a Kevin Love fan. Look at the comparison statistically, Oden did everything but shoot 3's as well as Love but Love didn't block shots like Oden, while Oden led a freshman full team, and UCLA had some veterans.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:22 pm    Post subject:

Buddha wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Funny that someone even bigger than Kevin Love with similar skill level across the board isn't exactly the most dominating player...

... Andrew Bogut.


Yet he was more "dominating" than the "athletic freak" in college.


So, that tells me you prefer guys like Sean May, Emeka Okafor, Spencer Hawes, and Andrew Bogut over Dwight Howard, Kobe Bryant, and Kevin Garnett.

Is that true? Because the above listed guys had a far larger offensive repetoire than the HS kids..
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:34 pm    Post subject:

I think athleticism is a case by case situation though. Depends on if you control whatever limited athleticism to the maximum. Guys like Magic and Bird, didn't have a TON of athleticism but everything they did defensively and offensively was in control. But no one can compare Oden to Love. Love in his own right will be nice.
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