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Hector the Pup Retired Number
Joined: 25 Jul 2002 Posts: 35946 Location: L.A.
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Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:37 am Post subject: |
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golakersgo121 wrote: | Hector the Pup wrote: | It all likely becomes moot in 9 days, at least from the POV of what Phil and Kobe can or can't do about it.
After that, it really will strictly be up to management. |
Well - for all we know it might be moot already
But not "strictly up to management", Hector. Both Phil and Kobe (I hope) will be able to say "hey, if we have that much money left we go after player XXX" (and thinking "no way I leave MY money on the table" but not saying it ) |
Actually, yes, strictly up to management. If Kobe doesn't opt out by the 30th, he can't opt out at all. 'Kobe can take less' is completely removed from the table. It no longer exists and cannot become an option until summer 2010.
Phil, while never a realistic factor in taking less because nobody would dare bring it up, will also be out of that area by then. Once those last couple of tests show he's healthy enough to continue, he's on board under his current contract.
What is left is management and 3 unrestricted free agents. Phil and Kobe make calls and whisper in their ears about how much they are loved, fans in LA make them feel loved wherever they go, but in the end it comes down to the dollars - how much the Lakers are willing to offer and how much the FA's are willing to accept. The alternatives are the MLE, LLE and maybe a sign and trade with Odom, provided everyone likes the numbers, location, players, etc. |
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golakersgo121 Franchise Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2006 Posts: 11717 Location: 8 miles from Staples Center
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Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:42 am Post subject: |
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Hector - no offense - but it doesn't matter how many times you spin it: the management team (Dr. Buss in particular) will determine the budget limits (yeah - that's up to him). The managing officer (Mitch) will execute the strategy developed by him, Phil and Kobe (as whisperer, if you'd like) on the years, contract structure, how to fit it into the budget limits, etc...
But the strategy (who is a "must", who is "nice to have") with this cast of players (including Phil, Kobe) will not be Mitch's decision only...
Oh, and Dr. Buss will be a player in strategy talks if the player in the free agency would have been Kobe's caliber (even if the strategy is "whatever it takes")... _________________ Major bullets dodged: DH12 - twice, LMA, Melo - twice, PG-13, DeMar DeRozan. Hit jackpot with DH-12 at the right time |
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BornAndBredLakersFan Starting Rotation
Joined: 11 Mar 2009 Posts: 344
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Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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Kobe will only leave the Lakers when he retires, or if he goes to Europe to finish his career for a gazillion bucks a year. _________________ "These young guys are playing checkers. I'm out there playing chess." -- Kobe Bryant |
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LakerJosh Starting Rotation
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 995
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Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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82410 wrote: | Sounds like logical thinking...Now here's what I want you to do Monday. Go to your boss and take a pay cut so the secretary that takes the long lunches and misses a day a week for carpel tunnel can keep her job with your company (call it a sacrifice). An NBA team is not a co-op it is a freaking business. Buss is the owner, Kobe is the employee. If Buss would rather not pay max money to Kobe, perhaps someone else will. It's not up to Kobe to keep the team together, it's up to the owner. This might finally drive me away from these (bleep) boards. The (bleep) guy just busted a gut for his 4th title, won the MVP, didn't miss a game, played hurt sick, won gold for his country and some Laker fans think he should take a paycut...you know to show SACRIFICE and all |
Yeah but isn't' there a way he can restructure his contract. He won't be making less money, but they can pay him less this coming season and increase it each year. Is this possible in the NBA? I know Tom Brady restructured his contract for the team to keep it together. He didn't make less in the long run but because of the way it was structured they were able to keep certain pieces. Hell, I'd do that in a heartbeat if I was Kobe and I wanted to be considered the best ever. If he truly wants that, he's gonna need the team. |
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kentu_tiro Star Player
Joined: 30 Sep 2007 Posts: 2798
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Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:51 am Post subject: |
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How about asking Kobe to take a paycut now but promising 1% ownership once he hangs it up?
Dr. Buss did give Magic that stake in the team. I dunno if it was negotiated back then as part of Magic the pay cut. Maybe Dr. Buss can do the same for Kobe. _________________ The road back to the top... |
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hoopschick29 Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jul 2004 Posts: 12898 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:08 am Post subject: |
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kentu_tiro wrote: | How about asking Kobe to take a paycut now but promising 1% ownership once he hangs it up?
Dr. Buss did give Magic that stake in the team. I dunno if it was negotiated back then as part of Magic the pay cut. Maybe Dr. Buss can do the same for Kobe. |
Wouldn't it make more sense just to take the hit for a year rather than giving up more stake in your team.
Why make things more complicated than they need to be? Take the LT hit for a year and then the salaries start coming off the books. _________________ So glad we gave you your flowers while you were here, Kobe. |
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dmlakerfan01 Star Player
Joined: 31 May 2008 Posts: 3737
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Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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That's just a win for Kobe. Easy money for life. Would Buss do that for Kobe? Kobe would easily take a paycut in a new deal if Buss offered him that. |
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heheh1 Star Player
Joined: 02 Jun 2009 Posts: 4240
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Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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kentu_tiro wrote: | How about asking Kobe to take a paycut now but promising 1% ownership once he hangs it up?
Dr. Buss did give Magic that stake in the team. I dunno if it was negotiated back then as part of Magic the pay cut. Maybe Dr. Buss can do the same for Kobe. |
Depends how well this team does the next season or two, if Buss is willing to give a few % of the Lakers to kobe in exchange for playing for 15 million per year or so.
What you have to understand from Kobe's perspective is that 3% of the Lakers estimated total value is only 15-20 million dollars. From ANY investors pov it's not worth giving up 10 million per year for 5-6 years for 3% ownership of the Lakers. It's pretty much bragging rights of being part owner than investment for oneself. |
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Hector the Pup Retired Number
Joined: 25 Jul 2002 Posts: 35946 Location: L.A.
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Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:25 am Post subject: |
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kentu_tiro wrote: | How about asking Kobe to take a paycut now but promising 1% ownership once he hangs it up?
Dr. Buss did give Magic that stake in the team. I dunno if it was negotiated back then as part of Magic the pay cut. Maybe Dr. Buss can do the same for Kobe. |
Illegal and extremely unlikely.
First off, Buss offered Magic the opportunity to BUY a piece of the Lakers at market value after his playing days were over. Nothing was given.
Second, Buss was sole owner of the team at the time and could make those decisions on his own. Both Fox and AEG are now part owners and would need to be consulted on any sale of any piece of the team and AEG also has first right of refusal.
Third, the league would kill that deal as it is a blatant attempt at circumventing the CBA. They don't like it when teams try and circumvent the CBA. It makes them mad. Really really really mad. |
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eLem3nt Star Player
Joined: 07 Jun 2009 Posts: 1424 Location: the 408
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Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:02 am Post subject: |
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you know what would absolutely crack me up? if kobe opts out to flirt with all the other teams and let them (bleep) up their rosters to pick him up. once thats done, he just signs back with the lakers for a cheaper contract, allowing the lakers to keep LO, ariza, and brown, and add a valuable PG to the rotation. |
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Moses Star Player
Joined: 23 Aug 2008 Posts: 8262 Location: London
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Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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I have an opinion for both sides of the argument:
He should because: This is his team, that means the responsibility to win is on him as much as anything, he's made as much money in endorsements as he has in salary, he doesn't actually need it, and it shows a tremendous commitment to the team and his team-mates.
He shouldn't because: He's earned all the money he gets, he's endured the blood, sweat and tears to get where he is now, and it should be the management (who are reaping the earnings of a championship) that pay to keep this team in tact. |
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Addicus Star Player
Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 9642 Location: Dave's Pimp Palace
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Runway8 Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 22734 Location: La Jolla, San Diego
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Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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So Larry Coon believes Kobe will join the Lebron/Wade/Bosh summer of free agents? That's very interesting. Kobe is 32 in '10 and Lebron is 25 in '10. Any chance the Lakers decide to woo Lebron instead? I think that's very possible if the Lakers are no longer champions at that time. |
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Hector the Pup Retired Number
Joined: 25 Jul 2002 Posts: 35946 Location: L.A.
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Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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Unless Lebron can be wooed with the MLE, it ain't happening. |
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Ank Star Player
Joined: 17 May 2005 Posts: 1043 Location: New York, NY
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Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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I think there's a mistake in the article in terms of the size of contract Kobe is able to sign if he goes with an extension. When he calculates
the max salary payable to Kobe in the first year of his
extension, he uses 105% of his 2009-2010 instead of
2010-2011 salary. My numbers give the third option differently.
Option 1: Become a free agent in 2009: $135,070,031
Option 2: Become a free agent in 2010: $135,015,989
Option 3: Sign an extension with the Lakers: $134,472,143.
Doesn't cost him much to just sign the extension. I think he probably signs a 3 year max extension later this summer if we bring back all the free agents.
Last edited by Ank on Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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LarryCoon Site Staff
Joined: 11 Aug 2002 Posts: 11264
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Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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I'll go back & re-run my numbers. Always possible I got something wrong. |
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eLem3nt Star Player
Joined: 07 Jun 2009 Posts: 1424 Location: the 408
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Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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Runway8 wrote: | So Larry Coon believes Kobe will join the Lebron/Wade/Bosh summer of free agents? That's very interesting. Kobe is 32 in '10 and Lebron is 25 in '10. Any chance the Lakers decide to woo Lebron instead? I think that's very possible if the Lakers are no longer champions at that time. |
i highly doubt it'll be lebron. if anyone, i think it'll be wade just because if kobe does decide to leave or not sign or w/e, it'll be the 2 spot needing filling more than anything. unless you're suggesting picking up lebron and having him play at 2. |
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LarryCoon Site Staff
Joined: 11 Aug 2002 Posts: 11264
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Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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While I think Kobe will enjoy being courted by half the teams in the league, that's just an ancillary benefit, and I don't think there's a big risk that the Lakers would lose him. The reason to opt out (either this year or next) is to re-sign for more years, and to do it under the current CBA.
I think one reason he waits another year is because if he opts out this year and DOESN'T take a pay cut for Odom's and Ariza's sake, half the media will be calling him selfish. and he wants to avoid the controversy -- whether it's deserved or not, it's going to happen. By waiting another year, he avoids the situation altogether.
Of course, it's always nice to have a fallback -- just in case. In the unlikely event Kobe & the Lakers have another falling out, it's better to do so when he has more options -- which also makes next year a better year to opt out than this year. Next year there will be more teams with more money to spend on him.
As for LBJ, keep in mind that the Lakers won't have cap room, even if Kobe leaves. They have Bird rights to Kobe, and can pay him any amount, but they won't be able to give any other player any more than the Mid-Level exception. Good luck convincing LBJ to sign for that.... |
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eLem3nt Star Player
Joined: 07 Jun 2009 Posts: 1424 Location: the 408
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Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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LarryCoon wrote: | While I think Kobe will enjoy being courted by half the teams in the league, that's just an ancillary benefit, and I don't think there's a big risk that the Lakers would lose him. The reason to opt out (either this year or next) is to re-sign for more years, and to do it under the current CBA.
I think one reason he waits another year is because if he opts out this year and DOESN'T take a pay cut for Odom's and Ariza's sake, half the media will be calling him selfish. and he wants to avoid the controversy -- whether it's deserved or not, it's going to happen. By waiting another year, he avoids the situation altogether.
Of course, it's always nice to have a fallback -- just in case. In the unlikely event Kobe & the Lakers have another falling out, it's better to do so when he has more options -- which also makes next year a better year to opt out than this year. Next year there will be more teams with more money to spend on him.
As for LBJ, keep in mind that the Lakers won't have cap room, even if Kobe leaves. They have Bird rights to Kobe, and can pay him any amount, but they won't be able to give any other player any more than the Mid-Level exception. Good luck convincing LBJ to sign for that.... |
maybe we can woo LBJ with one of those delicious chocolate chip cookies that each represent a different championship ring? |
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raffi LG Contributor
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 9987
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Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | Lakers guard Kobe Bryant will not become an unrestricted free agent after choosing not to terminate his contract, a source close to Bryant said Tuesday.
Instead, Bryant is expected to sign a three-year extension on top of his existing two-year contract at some point in July.
Bryant will make a guaranteed $47.8 million over the next two years and earn an estimated $80 million to $85 million with his three-year extension.
Today was the last possible day for Bryant to become a free agent, but the 13-year veteran did not do so because he wanted to "let Lamar [Odom] and Trevor [Ariza] have their day," according to the source, who wasn't authorized by Bryant to speak publicly about the decision. |
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eLem3nt Star Player
Joined: 07 Jun 2009 Posts: 1424 Location: the 408
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Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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raffi wrote: | Quote: | Lakers guard Kobe Bryant will not become an unrestricted free agent after choosing not to terminate his contract, a source close to Bryant said Tuesday.
Instead, Bryant is expected to sign a three-year extension on top of his existing two-year contract at some point in July.
Bryant will make a guaranteed $47.8 million over the next two years and earn an estimated $80 million to $85 million with his three-year extension.
Today was the last possible day for Bryant to become a free agent, but the 13-year veteran did not do so because he wanted to "let Lamar [Odom] and Trevor [Ariza] have their day," according to the source, who wasn't authorized by Bryant to speak publicly about the decision. |
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what's that supposed to mean?? |
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trmiv Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Nov 2001 Posts: 17654 Location: Orlando
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Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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eLem3nt wrote: | raffi wrote: | Quote: | Lakers guard Kobe Bryant will not become an unrestricted free agent after choosing not to terminate his contract, a source close to Bryant said Tuesday.
Instead, Bryant is expected to sign a three-year extension on top of his existing two-year contract at some point in July.
Bryant will make a guaranteed $47.8 million over the next two years and earn an estimated $80 million to $85 million with his three-year extension.
Today was the last possible day for Bryant to become a free agent, but the 13-year veteran did not do so because he wanted to "let Lamar [Odom] and Trevor [Ariza] have their day," according to the source, who wasn't authorized by Bryant to speak publicly about the decision. |
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what's that supposed to mean?? |
He's saying he'd rather them be the focus of the Lakers front office efforts rather than having to negotiate with him too. |
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LarryCoon Site Staff
Joined: 11 Aug 2002 Posts: 11264
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Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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Ank wrote: | I think there's a mistake in the article in terms of the size of contract Kobe is able to sign if he goes with an extension. When he calculates
the max salary payable to Kobe in the first year of his
extension, he uses 105% of his 2009-2010 instead of
2010-2011 salary. My numbers give the third option differently.
Option 1: Become a free agent in 2009: $135,070,031
Option 2: Become a free agent in 2010: $135,015,989
Option 3: Sign an extension with the Lakers: $134,472,143.
Doesn't cost him much to just sign the extension. I think he probably signs a 3 year max extension later this summer if we bring back all the free agents. |
You're right -- I flubbed the numbers. Total extension would be written for $90,967,153, making total income (including current deal) $138,707,778. Most likely amended downward due to max salary to $86,344,353, total $134,184,978, (Mine don't match yours -- I'll have to run through mine one more time. Right now I'm using an iPod as a calculator, and it's easy to make mistakes.)
BTW, there's a catch to signing an extension, which I didn't mention in my article. As I said, they amend the extension downward, if necessary, if the salary in the first year turns out to be above the max. Right now the player's maximum is 105% of his previous salary. But his extension would start in 2011-12, which will likely be the first year under the next CBA. How do we know what the max salary will be in the next CBA? If they do something radical, like eliminate the 105% allowance, Kobe's in big trouble.
Anyway, I'll ask RealGM to fix the numbers in the article tomorrow. Thanks for catching the error. |
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eLem3nt Star Player
Joined: 07 Jun 2009 Posts: 1424 Location: the 408
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Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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trmiv wrote: | eLem3nt wrote: | raffi wrote: | Quote: | Lakers guard Kobe Bryant will not become an unrestricted free agent after choosing not to terminate his contract, a source close to Bryant said Tuesday.
Instead, Bryant is expected to sign a three-year extension on top of his existing two-year contract at some point in July.
Bryant will make a guaranteed $47.8 million over the next two years and earn an estimated $80 million to $85 million with his three-year extension.
Today was the last possible day for Bryant to become a free agent, but the 13-year veteran did not do so because he wanted to "let Lamar [Odom] and Trevor [Ariza] have their day," according to the source, who wasn't authorized by Bryant to speak publicly about the decision. |
LINK |
what's that supposed to mean?? |
He's saying he'd rather them be the focus of the Lakers front office efforts rather than having to negotiate with him too. |
ohh ok i thought he was trying to suggest some kinda media attention or something so i was like
thanks for the clarification |
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Ank Star Player
Joined: 17 May 2005 Posts: 1043 Location: New York, NY
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Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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LarryCoon wrote: | Ank wrote: | I think there's a mistake in the article in terms of the size of contract Kobe is able to sign if he goes with an extension. When he calculates
the max salary payable to Kobe in the first year of his
extension, he uses 105% of his 2009-2010 instead of
2010-2011 salary. My numbers give the third option differently.
Option 1: Become a free agent in 2009: $135,070,031
Option 2: Become a free agent in 2010: $135,015,989
Option 3: Sign an extension with the Lakers: $134,472,143.
Doesn't cost him much to just sign the extension. I think he probably signs a 3 year max extension later this summer if we bring back all the free agents. |
You're right -- I flubbed the numbers. Total extension would be written for $90,967,153, making total income (including current deal) $138,707,778. Most likely amended downward due to max salary to $86,344,353, total $134,184,978, (Mine don't match yours -- I'll have to run through mine one more time. Right now I'm using an iPod as a calculator, and it's easy to make mistakes.)
BTW, there's a catch to signing an extension, which I didn't mention in my article. As I said, they amend the extension downward, if necessary, if the salary in the first year turns out to be above the max. Right now the player's maximum is 105% of his previous salary. But his extension would start in 2011-12, which will likely be the first year under the next CBA. How do we know what the max salary will be in the next CBA? If they do something radical, like eliminate the 105% allowance, Kobe's in big trouble.
Anyway, I'll ask RealGM to fix the numbers in the article tomorrow. Thanks for catching the error. |
Glad to be of service. I just put them into Excel real quick, so my numbers might be a bit rough. |
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