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TACH
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Location: Chillin on the Delaware.. from the Jersey Side
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 Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:30 am Post subject: Best or Top 5 QBs of all time.... |
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Peter King put a list of the Top QBs of all time, and surprise surprise, I disagree. Here's his list:
| Quote: | 1. Otto Graham. Easy. Ten seasons, seven championships, seven passing titles.
2. Sammy Baugh. Had the best season of any player ever in 1943. Led the NFL in passing, punting and, as one of the best safeties in football, in interceptions.
3. Joe Montana. Made everyone copy Walsh's high-tech offense, and won four titles in a decade.
4. Johnny Unitas. First great modern quarterback, and great in the clutch. He'd be higher if he won more than one title in his last 14 seasons.
5. Brett Favre. Most durable, most productive quarterback of all time. Marred by only one title.
6. Peyton Manning. Could break every record if Favre ever retires. Needs another championship or two to climb the list.
7. John Elway. Two titles, though they came late, capped the career of a Unitas-type with legs.
8. Dan Marino. Prototype dropback quarterback who, arguably, was the model for the pocket quarterback of the last 40 years.
9. Roger Staubach. Might be the best player/athlete/leader of a quarterback ever, and he edges Steve Young in my book with a second title and three more title-game appearances.
10. Tom Brady. Three Super Bowl wins by age 27, and a fourth appearance at 30.
11. Bart Starr. All he did was win -- five NFL titles, including the first two Super Bowl titles, both ending with him being MVP.
12. Terry Bradshaw. Rebounded from a horrible start to his career to lead the Steelers to four Super Bowls in six years.
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First, I don't see how you have Favre ahead of Peyton, Elway, or Marino. Hell, I think I take Steve Young ahead of Favre, and he isn't even listed.
Because I'm only go by the QBs I've seen, here's my Top 5:
1. Montana
2. Elway (it pains me to put Elway 2nd as a Raider fan, but game recognize game)
3. Marino (probably my all time favorite QB)
4. Manning
5. Young
Thoughts... |
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LuxuryBrown
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:47 am Post subject: |
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Otto Graham? Baugh? Obviously he's not taking eras into consideration, which is ridiculous.
My top 5:
1 - Elway
2 - Marino
3 - Favre
4 - Manning
5 - Montana
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| Quote: | Smooth, but I move like an army / Bulletproof down in case brothas try to bomb me / Puttin' brothas to rest like Elliot Ness / Cuz I don't like stress
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TACH
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Location: Chillin on the Delaware.. from the Jersey Side
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:55 am Post subject: |
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| LuxuryBrown wrote: | Otto Graham? Baugh? Obviously he's not taking eras into consideration, which is ridiculous.
My top 5:
1 - Elway
2 - Marino
3 - Favre
4 - Manning
5 - Montana |
Favre ahead of Montana? Really???? Not to mention Manning??? |
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Vishnu
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:23 am Post subject: |
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Troy Aikman
Tommy Maddox
Steve Bono
Cade McNown
Gary Beban |
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TACH
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Location: Chillin on the Delaware.. from the Jersey Side
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:25 am Post subject: |
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| Vishnu wrote: | Troy Aikman
Tommy Maddox
Steve Bono
Cade McNown
Gary Beban |
Do I detect a theme here  |
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Vishnu
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 16561
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:30 am Post subject: |
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| TACH wrote: | | Vishnu wrote: | Troy Aikman
Tommy Maddox
Steve Bono
Cade McNown
Gary Beban |
Do I detect a theme here |
3 of those QBs have rings  |
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LuxuryBrown
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Joined: 09 Jun 2006
Posts: 17429
Location: Mackadocious, Ca.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:47 am Post subject: |
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| TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | Otto Graham? Baugh? Obviously he's not taking eras into consideration, which is ridiculous.
My top 5:
1 - Elway
2 - Marino
3 - Favre
4 - Manning
5 - Montana |
Favre ahead of Montana? Really???? Not to mention Manning??? |
I go with who's done more with less. Favre had Sterling for a short time, and he's never really had any great receivers. Manning's had Marv and now Reg, and Montana had the GOATWR.
_________________
| Quote: | Smooth, but I move like an army / Bulletproof down in case brothas try to bomb me / Puttin' brothas to rest like Elliot Ness / Cuz I don't like stress
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TACH
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Location: Chillin on the Delaware.. from the Jersey Side
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:49 am Post subject: |
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| LuxuryBrown wrote: | | TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | Otto Graham? Baugh? Obviously he's not taking eras into consideration, which is ridiculous.
My top 5:
1 - Elway
2 - Marino
3 - Favre
4 - Manning
5 - Montana |
Favre ahead of Montana? Really???? Not to mention Manning??? |
I go with who's done more with less. Favre had Sterling for a short time, and he's never really had any great receivers. Manning's had Marv and now Reg, and Montana had the GOATWR. |
YEa, he's thrown MORE inception then anybody that has played the game   |
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LuxuryBrown
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Joined: 09 Jun 2006
Posts: 17429
Location: Mackadocious, Ca.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | | TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | Otto Graham? Baugh? Obviously he's not taking eras into consideration, which is ridiculous.
My top 5:
1 - Elway
2 - Marino
3 - Favre
4 - Manning
5 - Montana |
Favre ahead of Montana? Really???? Not to mention Manning??? |
I go with who's done more with less. Favre had Sterling for a short time, and he's never really had any great receivers. Manning's had Marv and now Reg, and Montana had the GOATWR. |
YEa, he's thrown MORE inception then anybody that has played the game |
Dude's a gunslinger...but that's also because he's played the most.
_________________
| Quote: | Smooth, but I move like an army / Bulletproof down in case brothas try to bomb me / Puttin' brothas to rest like Elliot Ness / Cuz I don't like stress
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Exick
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Posts: 15880
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:41 am Post subject: |
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He has Favre ahead of Marino AND Elway? What the crap?
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TACH
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Location: Chillin on the Delaware.. from the Jersey Side
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| Exick wrote: | | He has Favre ahead of Marino AND Elway? What the crap? |
Seriously... |
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TACH
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Posts: 28461
Location: Chillin on the Delaware.. from the Jersey Side
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:44 am Post subject: |
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| LuxuryBrown wrote: | | TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | | TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | Otto Graham? Baugh? Obviously he's not taking eras into consideration, which is ridiculous.
My top 5:
1 - Elway
2 - Marino
3 - Favre
4 - Manning
5 - Montana |
Favre ahead of Montana? Really???? Not to mention Manning??? |
I go with who's done more with less. Favre had Sterling for a short time, and he's never really had any great receivers. Manning's had Marv and now Reg, and Montana had the GOATWR. |
YEa, he's thrown MORE inception then anybody that has played the game |
Dude's a gunslinger...but that's also because he's played the most. |
Same can be said about the number of TDs he's toss... he has the record simply because he played the longest.... |
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Socks
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Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 10761
Location: Bay Area, CA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| I like Tach's list...much as it pains me to put Elway as #2 (as a Broncos fan). |
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Vishnu
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 16561
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| Vishnu wrote: | | TACH wrote: | | Vishnu wrote: | Troy Aikman
Tommy Maddox
Steve Bono
Cade McNown
Gary Beban |
Do I detect a theme here |
3 of those QBs have rings |
my top 10 would be:
6. Montana
7. Elway
8. Unitas
9. Manning
10. Otto Graham
(I've never seen Graham or Unitas play (obviously), but I guess they were pretty good) |
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LuxuryBrown
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Joined: 09 Jun 2006
Posts: 17429
Location: Mackadocious, Ca.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | | TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | | TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | Otto Graham? Baugh? Obviously he's not taking eras into consideration, which is ridiculous.
My top 5:
1 - Elway
2 - Marino
3 - Favre
4 - Manning
5 - Montana |
Favre ahead of Montana? Really???? Not to mention Manning??? |
I go with who's done more with less. Favre had Sterling for a short time, and he's never really had any great receivers. Manning's had Marv and now Reg, and Montana had the GOATWR. |
YEa, he's thrown MORE inception then anybody that has played the game |
Dude's a gunslinger...but that's also because he's played the most. |
Same can be said about the number of TDs he's toss... he has the record simply because he played the longest.... |
And that - longevity - in itself is a feat, ESPECIALLY at such a violent sport and ESPECIALLY at being a sitting duck due to the position he plays.
_________________
| Quote: | Smooth, but I move like an army / Bulletproof down in case brothas try to bomb me / Puttin' brothas to rest like Elliot Ness / Cuz I don't like stress
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Omar Little
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Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90551
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:13 am Post subject: Re: Best or Top 5 QBs of all time.... |
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| TACH wrote: | Peter King put a list of the Top QBs of all time, and surprise surprise, I disagree. Here's his list:
| Quote: | 1. Otto Graham. Easy. Ten seasons, seven championships, seven passing titles.
2. Sammy Baugh. Had the best season of any player ever in 1943. Led the NFL in passing, punting and, as one of the best safeties in football, in interceptions.
3. Joe Montana. Made everyone copy Walsh's high-tech offense, and won four titles in a decade.
4. Johnny Unitas. First great modern quarterback, and great in the clutch. He'd be higher if he won more than one title in his last 14 seasons.
5. Brett Favre. Most durable, most productive quarterback of all time. Marred by only one title.
6. Peyton Manning. Could break every record if Favre ever retires. Needs another championship or two to climb the list.
7. John Elway. Two titles, though they came late, capped the career of a Unitas-type with legs.
8. Dan Marino. Prototype dropback quarterback who, arguably, was the model for the pocket quarterback of the last 40 years.
9. Roger Staubach. Might be the best player/athlete/leader of a quarterback ever, and he edges Steve Young in my book with a second title and three more title-game appearances.
10. Tom Brady. Three Super Bowl wins by age 27, and a fourth appearance at 30.
11. Bart Starr. All he did was win -- five NFL titles, including the first two Super Bowl titles, both ending with him being MVP.
12. Terry Bradshaw. Rebounded from a horrible start to his career to lead the Steelers to four Super Bowls in six years.
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First, I don't see how you have Favre ahead of Peyton, Elway, or Marino. Hell, I think I take Steve Young ahead of Favre, and he isn't even listed.
Because I'm only go by the QBs I've seen, here's my Top 5:
1. Montana
2. Elway (it pains me to put Elway 2nd as a Raider fan, but game recognize game)
3. Marino (probably my all time favorite QB)
4. Manning
5. Young
Thoughts... |
I agree on the top 3, in that order, but I think Manning, Young, Favre, Unitis, Aikman, Brady, and company are all in a race for the other slots in the top 10. As a Bear fan, I hate Favre, but I gotta think he's at least a strong contender for top 5, if not outright in.
I think I'll just follow his lead and put him in there, then take him out, then put him back in, then discuss not putting him in...
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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TACH
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Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 28461
Location: Chillin on the Delaware.. from the Jersey Side
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| LuxuryBrown wrote: | | TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | | TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | | TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | Otto Graham? Baugh? Obviously he's not taking eras into consideration, which is ridiculous.
My top 5:
1 - Elway
2 - Marino
3 - Favre
4 - Manning
5 - Montana |
Favre ahead of Montana? Really???? Not to mention Manning??? |
I go with who's done more with less. Favre had Sterling for a short time, and he's never really had any great receivers. Manning's had Marv and now Reg, and Montana had the GOATWR. |
YEa, he's thrown MORE inception then anybody that has played the game |
Dude's a gunslinger...but that's also because he's played the most. |
Same can be said about the number of TDs he's toss... he has the record simply because he played the longest.... |
And that - longevity - in itself is a feat, ESPECIALLY at such a violent sport and ESPECIALLY at being a sitting duck due to the position he plays. |
All QB's are sitting ducks... he gets no points for that... but you can deduct points for abusing pain killers for two season (his own admission), which allowed him to make all his starts.
As for his receivers, Sterling Sharpe, Antonio Freeman, Donald Driver, and Robert Brooks were All Pro/ProBowl WRs when they played with Favre, so the WRs argue doesn't hold.... |
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LuxuryBrown
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Joined: 09 Jun 2006
Posts: 17429
Location: Mackadocious, Ca.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | | TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | | TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | | TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | Otto Graham? Baugh? Obviously he's not taking eras into consideration, which is ridiculous.
My top 5:
1 - Elway
2 - Marino
3 - Favre
4 - Manning
5 - Montana |
Favre ahead of Montana? Really???? Not to mention Manning??? |
I go with who's done more with less. Favre had Sterling for a short time, and he's never really had any great receivers. Manning's had Marv and now Reg, and Montana had the GOATWR. |
YEa, he's thrown MORE inception then anybody that has played the game |
Dude's a gunslinger...but that's also because he's played the most. |
Same can be said about the number of TDs he's toss... he has the record simply because he played the longest.... |
And that - longevity - in itself is a feat, ESPECIALLY at such a violent sport and ESPECIALLY at being a sitting duck due to the position he plays. |
All QB's are sitting ducks... he gets no points for that... but you can deduct points for abusing pain killers for two season (his own admission), which allowed him to make all his starts.
As for his receivers, Sterling Sharpe, Antonio Freeman, Donald Driver, and Robert Brooks were All Pro/ProBowl WRs when they played with Favre, so the WRs argue doesn't hold.... |
No, you missed my point...I'm not giving him points for being a sitting duck...I'm giving him points for HOLDING UP this long WHILE being a sitting duck. And dude, what does his offseason troubles have to do with ranking him as a QB  ?
Freeman ain't makin' the Hall. Driver PROBABLY won't. Brooks won't. Montana had Rice = HOF. Manning had Marv = HOF. Elway had Shannon = HOF. Marino had the Mark Brothers but none of those cats will sniff the Hall either. So my argument holds up that he didn't have a HOF WR to throw to.
Wait...before I go on...Is it that you just don't like Favre for whatever reason(s)? I asked that because you mentioned the pain killers, and I can't see how that holds any bearing on the dude as a QB.
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| Quote: | Smooth, but I move like an army / Bulletproof down in case brothas try to bomb me / Puttin' brothas to rest like Elliot Ness / Cuz I don't like stress
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Omar Little
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Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90551
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| LuxuryBrown wrote: | | TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | | TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | | TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | | TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | Otto Graham? Baugh? Obviously he's not taking eras into consideration, which is ridiculous.
My top 5:
1 - Elway
2 - Marino
3 - Favre
4 - Manning
5 - Montana |
Favre ahead of Montana? Really???? Not to mention Manning??? |
I go with who's done more with less. Favre had Sterling for a short time, and he's never really had any great receivers. Manning's had Marv and now Reg, and Montana had the GOATWR. |
YEa, he's thrown MORE inception then anybody that has played the game |
Dude's a gunslinger...but that's also because he's played the most. |
Same can be said about the number of TDs he's toss... he has the record simply because he played the longest.... |
And that - longevity - in itself is a feat, ESPECIALLY at such a violent sport and ESPECIALLY at being a sitting duck due to the position he plays. |
All QB's are sitting ducks... he gets no points for that... but you can deduct points for abusing pain killers for two season (his own admission), which allowed him to make all his starts.
As for his receivers, Sterling Sharpe, Antonio Freeman, Donald Driver, and Robert Brooks were All Pro/ProBowl WRs when they played with Favre, so the WRs argue doesn't hold.... |
No, you missed my point...I'm not giving him points for being a sitting duck...I'm giving him points for HOLDING UP this long WHILE being a sitting duck. And dude, what does his offseason troubles have to do with ranking him as a QB ?
Freeman ain't makin' the Hall. Driver PROBABLY won't. Brooks won't. Montana had Rice = HOF. Manning had Marv = HOF. Elway had Shannon = HOF. Marino had the Mark Brothers but none of those cats will sniff the Hall either. So my argument holds up that he didn't have a HOF WR to throw to.
Wait...before I go on...Is it that you just don't like Favre for whatever reason(s)? I asked that because you mentioned the pain killers, and I can't see how that holds any bearing on the dude as a QB. |
Did you forget that Sterling Sharpe guy Lux?
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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LuxuryBrown
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Joined: 09 Jun 2006
Posts: 17429
Location: Mackadocious, Ca.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | | TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | | TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | | TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | | TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | Otto Graham? Baugh? Obviously he's not taking eras into consideration, which is ridiculous.
My top 5:
1 - Elway
2 - Marino
3 - Favre
4 - Manning
5 - Montana |
Favre ahead of Montana? Really???? Not to mention Manning??? |
I go with who's done more with less. Favre had Sterling for a short time, and he's never really had any great receivers. Manning's had Marv and now Reg, and Montana had the GOATWR. |
YEa, he's thrown MORE inception then anybody that has played the game |
Dude's a gunslinger...but that's also because he's played the most. |
Same can be said about the number of TDs he's toss... he has the record simply because he played the longest.... |
And that - longevity - in itself is a feat, ESPECIALLY at such a violent sport and ESPECIALLY at being a sitting duck due to the position he plays. |
All QB's are sitting ducks... he gets no points for that... but you can deduct points for abusing pain killers for two season (his own admission), which allowed him to make all his starts.
As for his receivers, Sterling Sharpe, Antonio Freeman, Donald Driver, and Robert Brooks were All Pro/ProBowl WRs when they played with Favre, so the WRs argue doesn't hold.... |
No, you missed my point...I'm not giving him points for being a sitting duck...I'm giving him points for HOLDING UP this long WHILE being a sitting duck. And dude, what does his offseason troubles have to do with ranking him as a QB ?
Freeman ain't makin' the Hall. Driver PROBABLY won't. Brooks won't. Montana had Rice = HOF. Manning had Marv = HOF. Elway had Shannon = HOF. Marino had the Mark Brothers but none of those cats will sniff the Hall either. So my argument holds up that he didn't have a HOF WR to throw to.
Wait...before I go on...Is it that you just don't like Favre for whatever reason(s)? I asked that because you mentioned the pain killers, and I can't see how that holds any bearing on the dude as a QB. |
Did you forget that Sterling Sharpe guy Lux? |
Naw, I named him when I first responded to Tach.
_________________
| Quote: | Smooth, but I move like an army / Bulletproof down in case brothas try to bomb me / Puttin' brothas to rest like Elliot Ness / Cuz I don't like stress
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TACH
Retired Number
Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 28461
Location: Chillin on the Delaware.. from the Jersey Side
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| LuxuryBrown wrote: | | TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | | TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | | TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | | TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | Otto Graham? Baugh? Obviously he's not taking eras into consideration, which is ridiculous.
My top 5:
1 - Elway
2 - Marino
3 - Favre
4 - Manning
5 - Montana |
Favre ahead of Montana? Really???? Not to mention Manning??? |
I go with who's done more with less. Favre had Sterling for a short time, and he's never really had any great receivers. Manning's had Marv and now Reg, and Montana had the GOATWR. |
YEa, he's thrown MORE inception then anybody that has played the game |
Dude's a gunslinger...but that's also because he's played the most. |
Same can be said about the number of TDs he's toss... he has the record simply because he played the longest.... |
And that - longevity - in itself is a feat, ESPECIALLY at such a violent sport and ESPECIALLY at being a sitting duck due to the position he plays. |
All QB's are sitting ducks... he gets no points for that... but you can deduct points for abusing pain killers for two season (his own admission), which allowed him to make all his starts.
As for his receivers, Sterling Sharpe, Antonio Freeman, Donald Driver, and Robert Brooks were All Pro/ProBowl WRs when they played with Favre, so the WRs argue doesn't hold.... |
No, you missed my point...I'm not giving him points for being a sitting duck...I'm giving him points for HOLDING UP this long WHILE being a sitting duck. And dude, what does his offseason troubles have to do with ranking him as a QB ?
Freeman ain't makin' the Hall. Driver PROBABLY won't. Brooks won't. Montana had Rice = HOF. Manning had Marv = HOF. Elway had Shannon = HOF. Marino had the Mark Brothers but none of those cats will sniff the Hall either. So my argument holds up that he didn't have a HOF WR to throw to.
Wait...before I go on...Is it that you just don't like Favre for whatever reason(s)? I asked that because you mentioned the pain killers, and I can't see how that holds any bearing on the dude as a QB. |
Because by his own admission he was taking 10 times the recommend dosage for pain killers while playing. 10 to 13 percs/vicodin on game day. You can't tell me that didn't help him suit.
As for Harris, Harris is going into the HOF because of Manning, not the other way around... if it weren't for Manning, Harris wouldn't be a household name. But so I understand, a having pro bowl WRs means you don't have WRs good enough to throw too? Please, the guy had WRs, TEs, and RBs to work with.
My feelings for Favre is that he is one of the most overrated athletes PERIOD. The fact that Peter King put him 5th All Time is ludicrous, just down ridiculous...
Favre better than Montana, yea right, not on this planet. Manning, keep smoking... Favre has over 300 INTs (and counting)... the next closet guy has 30 less him. Manning has almost half as many as Favre (166), Montana 139. Not too mention both Montana and Manning have a higher career passer rating. |
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Omar Little
Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90551
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| LuxuryBrown wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | | TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | | TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | | TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | | TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | Otto Graham? Baugh? Obviously he's not taking eras into consideration, which is ridiculous.
My top 5:
1 - Elway
2 - Marino
3 - Favre
4 - Manning
5 - Montana |
Favre ahead of Montana? Really???? Not to mention Manning??? |
I go with who's done more with less. Favre had Sterling for a short time, and he's never really had any great receivers. Manning's had Marv and now Reg, and Montana had the GOATWR. |
YEa, he's thrown MORE inception then anybody that has played the game |
Dude's a gunslinger...but that's also because he's played the most. |
Same can be said about the number of TDs he's toss... he has the record simply because he played the longest.... |
And that - longevity - in itself is a feat, ESPECIALLY at such a violent sport and ESPECIALLY at being a sitting duck due to the position he plays. |
All QB's are sitting ducks... he gets no points for that... but you can deduct points for abusing pain killers for two season (his own admission), which allowed him to make all his starts.
As for his receivers, Sterling Sharpe, Antonio Freeman, Donald Driver, and Robert Brooks were All Pro/ProBowl WRs when they played with Favre, so the WRs argue doesn't hold.... |
No, you missed my point...I'm not giving him points for being a sitting duck...I'm giving him points for HOLDING UP this long WHILE being a sitting duck. And dude, what does his offseason troubles have to do with ranking him as a QB ?
Freeman ain't makin' the Hall. Driver PROBABLY won't. Brooks won't. Montana had Rice = HOF. Manning had Marv = HOF. Elway had Shannon = HOF. Marino had the Mark Brothers but none of those cats will sniff the Hall either. So my argument holds up that he didn't have a HOF WR to throw to.
Wait...before I go on...Is it that you just don't like Favre for whatever reason(s)? I asked that because you mentioned the pain killers, and I can't see how that holds any bearing on the dude as a QB. |
Did you forget that Sterling Sharpe guy Lux? |
Naw, I named him when I first responded to Tach. |
But you forget him when discussing HOF caliber WR's that a QB had? He was pretty dang good.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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LuxuryBrown
Franchise Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2006
Posts: 17429
Location: Mackadocious, Ca.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | | TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | | TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | | TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | | TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | Otto Graham? Baugh? Obviously he's not taking eras into consideration, which is ridiculous.
My top 5:
1 - Elway
2 - Marino
3 - Favre
4 - Manning
5 - Montana |
Favre ahead of Montana? Really???? Not to mention Manning??? |
I go with who's done more with less. Favre had Sterling for a short time, and he's never really had any great receivers. Manning's had Marv and now Reg, and Montana had the GOATWR. |
YEa, he's thrown MORE inception then anybody that has played the game |
Dude's a gunslinger...but that's also because he's played the most. |
Same can be said about the number of TDs he's toss... he has the record simply because he played the longest.... |
And that - longevity - in itself is a feat, ESPECIALLY at such a violent sport and ESPECIALLY at being a sitting duck due to the position he plays. |
All QB's are sitting ducks... he gets no points for that... but you can deduct points for abusing pain killers for two season (his own admission), which allowed him to make all his starts.
As for his receivers, Sterling Sharpe, Antonio Freeman, Donald Driver, and Robert Brooks were All Pro/ProBowl WRs when they played with Favre, so the WRs argue doesn't hold.... |
No, you missed my point...I'm not giving him points for being a sitting duck...I'm giving him points for HOLDING UP this long WHILE being a sitting duck. And dude, what does his offseason troubles have to do with ranking him as a QB ?
Freeman ain't makin' the Hall. Driver PROBABLY won't. Brooks won't. Montana had Rice = HOF. Manning had Marv = HOF. Elway had Shannon = HOF. Marino had the Mark Brothers but none of those cats will sniff the Hall either. So my argument holds up that he didn't have a HOF WR to throw to.
Wait...before I go on...Is it that you just don't like Favre for whatever reason(s)? I asked that because you mentioned the pain killers, and I can't see how that holds any bearing on the dude as a QB. |
Because by his own admission he was taking 10 times the recommend dosage for pain killers while playing. 10 to 13 percs/vicodin on game day. You can't tell me that didn't help him suit.
As for Harris, Harris is going into the HOF because of Manning, not the other way around... if it weren't for Manning, Harris wouldn't be a household name. But so I understand, a having pro bowl WRs means you don't have WRs good enough to throw too? Please, the guy had WRs, TEs, and RBs to work with.
My feelings for Favre is that he is one of the most overrated athletes PERIOD. The fact that Peter King put him 5th All Time is ludicrous, just down ridiculous...
Favre better than Montana, yea right, not on this planet. Manning, keep smoking... Favre has over 300 INTs (and counting)... the next closet guy has 30 less him. Manning has almost half as many as Favre (166), Montana 139. Not too mention both Montana and Manning have a higher career passer rating. |
But taking that many painers can work against him as well with side effects. Either way, pain killers only do so much as far as masking pain. 271 straight starts CAN'T be summed up from using painers.
Marv is going in because of his own skills, Manning helps, just like Marv helps Manning. To say Marv gets in because of Peyton is slighting the hell outta Marv, and I can't ever cut for that. And again, you use Pro Bowl, I use the HOF. That's pretty much it.
But why are you gettin' so heated and hyped-up over this? ...Dude, it's MY opinion. Deal with it. Get over it. Move on. It ain't that deep. No one's winning a new Camry for the best QB list .
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| Quote: | Smooth, but I move like an army / Bulletproof down in case brothas try to bomb me / Puttin' brothas to rest like Elliot Ness / Cuz I don't like stress
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TACH
Retired Number
Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 28461
Location: Chillin on the Delaware.. from the Jersey Side
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | | TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | | TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | | TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | | TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | Otto Graham? Baugh? Obviously he's not taking eras into consideration, which is ridiculous.
My top 5:
1 - Elway
2 - Marino
3 - Favre
4 - Manning
5 - Montana |
Favre ahead of Montana? Really???? Not to mention Manning??? |
I go with who's done more with less. Favre had Sterling for a short time, and he's never really had any great receivers. Manning's had Marv and now Reg, and Montana had the GOATWR. |
YEa, he's thrown MORE inception then anybody that has played the game |
Dude's a gunslinger...but that's also because he's played the most. |
Same can be said about the number of TDs he's toss... he has the record simply because he played the longest.... |
And that - longevity - in itself is a feat, ESPECIALLY at such a violent sport and ESPECIALLY at being a sitting duck due to the position he plays. |
All QB's are sitting ducks... he gets no points for that... but you can deduct points for abusing pain killers for two season (his own admission), which allowed him to make all his starts.
As for his receivers, Sterling Sharpe, Antonio Freeman, Donald Driver, and Robert Brooks were All Pro/ProBowl WRs when they played with Favre, so the WRs argue doesn't hold.... |
No, you missed my point...I'm not giving him points for being a sitting duck...I'm giving him points for HOLDING UP this long WHILE being a sitting duck. And dude, what does his offseason troubles have to do with ranking him as a QB ?
Freeman ain't makin' the Hall. Driver PROBABLY won't. Brooks won't. Montana had Rice = HOF. Manning had Marv = HOF. Elway had Shannon = HOF. Marino had the Mark Brothers but none of those cats will sniff the Hall either. So my argument holds up that he didn't have a HOF WR to throw to.
Wait...before I go on...Is it that you just don't like Favre for whatever reason(s)? I asked that because you mentioned the pain killers, and I can't see how that holds any bearing on the dude as a QB. |
Did you forget that Sterling Sharpe guy Lux? |
Naw, I named him when I first responded to Tach. |
But you forget him when discussing HOF caliber WR's that a QB had? He was pretty dang good. |
Actually LB changed it up a little bit...
it went from great receiver to HOF WR:
| Quote: | | he's never really had any great receivers. |
Although they are not 'great' WRs, Sterling Sharpe, Antonio Freeman, Donald Driver, and Robert Brooks were All Pro/ProBowl WRs.., they were definitely better than average. He also had a nice running game in Levens, Bennett and Green. |
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LuxuryBrown
Franchise Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2006
Posts: 17429
Location: Mackadocious, Ca.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | | TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | | TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | | TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | | TACH wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | Otto Graham? Baugh? Obviously he's not taking eras into consideration, which is ridiculous.
My top 5:
1 - Elway
2 - Marino
3 - Favre
4 - Manning
5 - Montana |
Favre ahead of Montana? Really???? Not to mention Manning??? |
I go with who's done more with less. Favre had Sterling for a short time, and he's never really had any great receivers. Manning's had Marv and now Reg, and Montana had the GOATWR. |
YEa, he's thrown MORE inception then anybody that has played the game |
Dude's a gunslinger...but that's also because he's played the most. |
Same can be said about the number of TDs he's toss... he has the record simply because he played the longest.... |
And that - longevity - in itself is a feat, ESPECIALLY at such a violent sport and ESPECIALLY at being a sitting duck due to the position he plays. |
All QB's are sitting ducks... he gets no points for that... but you can deduct points for abusing pain killers for two season (his own admission), which allowed him to make all his starts.
As for his receivers, Sterling Sharpe, Antonio Freeman, Donald Driver, and Robert Brooks were All Pro/ProBowl WRs when they played with Favre, so the WRs argue doesn't hold.... |
No, you missed my point...I'm not giving him points for being a sitting duck...I'm giving him points for HOLDING UP this long WHILE being a sitting duck. And dude, what does his offseason troubles have to do with ranking him as a QB ?
Freeman ain't makin' the Hall. Driver PROBABLY won't. Brooks won't. Montana had Rice = HOF. Manning had Marv = HOF. Elway had Shannon = HOF. Marino had the Mark Brothers but none of those cats will sniff the Hall either. So my argument holds up that he didn't have a HOF WR to throw to.
Wait...before I go on...Is it that you just don't like Favre for whatever reason(s)? I asked that because you mentioned the pain killers, and I can't see how that holds any bearing on the dude as a QB. |
Did you forget that Sterling Sharpe guy Lux? |
Naw, I named him when I first responded to Tach. |
But you forget him when discussing HOF caliber WR's that a QB had? He was pretty dang good. |
But I stated his career was short, especially with Brett.
_________________
| Quote: | Smooth, but I move like an army / Bulletproof down in case brothas try to bomb me / Puttin' brothas to rest like Elliot Ness / Cuz I don't like stress
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