| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Mark10 45
Starting Rotation
Joined: 27 Feb 2020
Posts: 575
|
 Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| JUST-MING wrote: | Had a glance at Westbrook’s matchups from last season, the only one that stood out is Kendrick Nunn scoring 25 points, but that was in a blowout loss. Most of the guys that went off did so behind the three point line, Lillard 7-17, Bogs 7-12, Curry 5-12, Brogdon 5-10, Young 5-9, Lowry 5-8. Those were outliners for Westbrook. I looked at Schroder’s matchups from last season, that happened every nearly every game! Tyrese Haliburton gave him 30 points
The people with agendas talking out the side of their mouth, Westbrook is a SIGNIFICANTLY better defender than Schroder. |
na..Most of his matchups eclipsed their regular season average, for instance 18 for Dort, 24 for Oubre, 19 for Frank Jackson, 29 for Wall, 14 for Campazzo, 21 for Fultz, 14 for Forbes, 42 for Mitchell.. etc etc etc
he was decent defensively last year, but like other posters have said, that was his only okay defensive season in years |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
epic_
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2020
Posts: 11310
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
| 32 wrote: | 7/11
7 days to the draft.
11 days to free agency. |
Isn't it 10 days till FA?
_________________
💜💛 🏆 👀 🍖 #18!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
32
Retired Number
Joined: 04 Nov 2009
Posts: 73144
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
| epic_ wrote: | | 32 wrote: | 7/11
7 days to the draft.
11 days to free agency. |
Isn't it 10 days till FA? |
August 2, 6:00 p.m. ET
_________________
Nobody in the NBA can touch the Laker brand, which, like the uniform color, is pure gold. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
epic_
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2020
Posts: 11310
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
| 32 wrote: | | epic_ wrote: | | 32 wrote: | 7/11
7 days to the draft.
11 days to free agency. |
Isn't it 10 days till FA? |
August 2, 6:00 p.m. ET |
Sweet thanks.
I guess I was mixing it up with the 1st which is the day that most player and team options expire.
_________________
💜💛 🏆 👀 🍖 #18!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
32
Retired Number
Joined: 04 Nov 2009
Posts: 73144
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
Sounds like the consensus is Russ is a bad fit for the Lakers. Some folks online think this trade rumor was a leak from Washington to get THT in the deal.
_________________
Nobody in the NBA can touch the Laker brand, which, like the uniform color, is pure gold. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
J.C. Smith
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 12699
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
| pjiddy wrote: | | The trade being suggested for Russ I would sooner do for Lowry. Toronto appeared to be down if it brought back THT. People say we balked at trading THT for Lowry, but i think that could be more reflective of Lowry's UFA status. Trading him for 2 months of Lowry would have sucked. But if he's willing to sign a deal? Then we're probably talking. |
I honestly wouldn't give up THT for Lowry, at least not along with other assets. I think with Lowry being a free agent, the Raptors have less leverage. They still have leverage as many other teams don't have cap space, but he can also just walk and they get nothing. So I would think he could be had cheaper.
I'd definitely rather have Lowry than Westbrook though. His shooting trump's Westbrooks intensity and rebounding. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LakerSD
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 23829
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
| 32 wrote: | | Sounds like the consensus is Russ is a bad fit for the Lakers. Some folks online think this trade rumor was a leak from Washington to get THT in the deal. |
I have no doubts that’s what the Wizards are trying to do.
If they want THT, then we can start talking about swapping FRPs or expanding the deal to include one of their young players… |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LGFan
Star Player
Joined: 07 Jun 2021
Posts: 1860
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
2nd tier PGs i prefer over 20m Dennis:
Kendrick Nunn
Cam Payne |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
alleyoop
Star Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2018
Posts: 3882
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
| LakerSD wrote: | | 32 wrote: | | Sounds like the consensus is Russ is a bad fit for the Lakers. Some folks online think this trade rumor was a leak from Washington to get THT in the deal. |
I have no doubts that’s what the Wizards are trying to do.
If they want THT, then we can start talking about swapping FRPs or expanding the deal to include one of their young players… |
This is my thoughts
I personally think WB can help us (quite a bit actually), but his value is not as high as people think it is. Getting 15 from the Wizards as well should be the goal
That said, whether a WB deal is likely to happen in the first place is very much unknown
_________________
#18 next... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
alleyoop
Star Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2018
Posts: 3882
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
| LGFan wrote: | 2nd tier PGs i prefer over 20m Dennis:
Kendrick Nunn
Cam Payne |
Oh god no
_________________
#18 next... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LGFan
Star Player
Joined: 07 Jun 2021
Posts: 1860
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
Shams: Hornets to pursue Richaun Holmes
he is actually a better fit then montrez. this guy might actually opt in |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
epic_
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2020
Posts: 11310
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
| LGFan wrote: | Shams: Hornets to pursue Richaun Holmes
he is actually a better fit then montrez. this guy might actually opt in |
Makes sense for the hornets.
Makes Trez trade to the Kings look good. Trez for Delon Wright.
_________________
💜💛 🏆 👀 🍖 #18!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LakerSD
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 23829
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
| epic_ wrote: | | LGFan wrote: | Shams: Hornets to pursue Richaun Holmes
he is actually a better fit then montrez. this guy might actually opt in |
Makes sense for the hornets.
Makes Trez trade to the Kings look good. Trez for Delon Wright. |
Done and done. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
roger_federer
Star Player
Joined: 01 Mar 2020
Posts: 3146
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
| WB would be a perfect Regular season player. He will give AD and LBJ lot of rest in regular season and will take the team to playoffs too. once playoffs come, we better play him as little as possible. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Inspector Gadget
Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46975
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Delon Wright will essentially be the guy that replaces Caruso as the back up PG, If the trade goes down then we will know that Caruso is likely leaving the Lakers. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Halflife
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 17237
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
| we have to be careful with rating guys like Cam Payne too high. he definitely had moments but our system is drastically different than theirs. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Inspector Gadget
Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46975
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Halflife wrote: | | we have to be careful with rating guys like Cam Payne too high. he definitely had moments but our system is drastically different than theirs. |
Payne was also in a contract year and probably wanted to show off to get a nice contract, I’m very dubious giving guys who have been mediocre through out there career to all of a sudden investing in them. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AD23
Star Player
Joined: 15 Jul 2019
Posts: 3069
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
| kikanga wrote: | | AD23 wrote: | I’m sick of the Laker front office trading away our young studs.
Kuz will be a 25-30ppg scorer any season now. THT is the next Scottie Pippen. I see him averaging 20/8/8 in the next yr and peaking at 30-15-15.
Trust the process. Seriously if we kept the young core and LeBron we would have repeated. You guys need to trust the young studs!! |
It's all about home grown talent.
If a player didn't come out of the soil of my mom's garden wearing a Lakers jersey. And it has to be the side of the garden closest to the back door. I don't want them on our squad. It's the only way I'll be satisfied with another championship. |
Exactly, just relax and let them blossom even if it takes 10 yrs. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kikanga
Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29726
Location: La La Land
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | He was playing hurt in the 2020 playoffs. I don't know where this Westbrook is a bad defender narrative comes from? |
It's because he's a mediocre defender at best. You cite DRPM and note that he was actually positive this year (+0.05). The previous year, he was -0.69, just behind Jordan Clarkson. The year before that, he was -2.00. The year before that, he was -2.32. So I guess you could say that he's gone from terrible to mediocre as he's aged.
You talk about his rebounding, but you should stop and think about that. If your point guard is chasing rebounds under the basket, who is guarding the opposing point guard? You talk about his steals, but steals are often a hallmark of bad defenders. This is because they gamble and flounder around a lot. Westbrook is always going to chase stats, so it's no surprise that he's prone to doing this.
Overall, Westbrook's defense is not really what concerns me. He would be a downgrade compared to Schroder, but he wouldn't be Isaiah Thomas bad. If I had to list his flaws, his defense would be low on the list. |
Ya'll really hate this man. More steals, deflections, loose balls chased down, defensive rebounding, DBPM and DWS than Schroder. Actually has the size and strength to guard both guard positions unlike Schroder. But he's still a "downgrade compared to Schroder" defensively. Just say you don't like him. 
People out here trying to convince me advanced defensive stats are meaningless. And traditional defensive stats are meaningless. And the eyeball test is meaningless. And hustle stats are meaningless. And MVP's are meaningless. And his wins don't count cause after he beat those teams, they lost in the playins. And, and, and. He could rescue some people's moms from a burning building. And they'd be like, "but he didn't get the family pictures! Would've been better off without him."
_________________
"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Last edited by kikanga on Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:13 am; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
| LGFan wrote: | 2nd tier PGs i prefer over 20m Dennis:
Kendrick Nunn
Cam Payne |
The right way in that scenario would be to seek a S&T of Dennis, and if these guys accept the MMLE (doubtful for Payne, maybe for Nunn, though his defense and shot selection are questionable, ergo why he is not a starter), then go ahead. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144592
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Lakerz113 wrote: | | AD23 wrote: | I’m sick of the Laker front office trading away our young studs.
Kuz will be a 25-30ppg scorer any season now. THT is the next Scottie Pippen. I see him averaging 20/8/8 in the next yr and peaking at 30-15-15.
Trust the process. Seriously if we kept the young core and LeBron we would have repeated. You guys need to trust the young studs!! |
Oh god. I’m a fan of THT, but those numbers are just plain silly. |
That is the point
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LGFan
Star Player
Joined: 07 Jun 2021
Posts: 1860
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | LGFan wrote: | 2nd tier PGs i prefer over 20m Dennis:
Kendrick Nunn
Cam Payne |
The right way in that scenario would be to seek a S&T of Dennis, and if these guys accept the MMLE (doubtful for Payne, maybe for Nunn, though his defense and shot selection are questionable, ergo why he is not a starter), then go ahead. |
sounds correct |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AD23
Star Player
Joined: 15 Jul 2019
Posts: 3069
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Lakerz113 wrote: | | AD23 wrote: | I’m sick of the Laker front office trading away our young studs.
Kuz will be a 25-30ppg scorer any season now. THT is the next Scottie Pippen. I see him averaging 20/8/8 in the next yr and peaking at 30-15-15.
Trust the process. Seriously if we kept the young core and LeBron we would have repeated. You guys need to trust the young studs!! |
Oh god. I’m a fan of THT, but those numbers are just plain silly. |
That is the point |
DING DING |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
| kikanga wrote: | Ya'll really hate this man. More steals, deflections, loose balls chased down, defensive rebounding, DBPM and DWS than Schroder. Actually has the size and strength to guard both guard positions unlike Schroder. But he's still a "downgrade compared to Schroder" defensively. Just say you don't like him.
People out here trying to convince me advanced defensive stats are meaningless. And traditional defensive stats are meaningless. And the eyeball test is meaningless. And hustle stats are meaningless. And MVP's are meaningless. And his wins don't count cause after he beat those teams, they lost in the playins. And, and, and. He could rescue some people's moms from a burning building. And they'd be like, "but he didn't get the family pictures! Would've been better off without him." |
At this point, you’re just building the Godzilla of straw men. Defense isn’t about running around the court and accumulating stats. Sometimes, defense is all about just being in the right place, doing nothing that generates a stat. Westbrook is going to look better on the box score based stats like DBPM and DWS because he chases rebounds and gambles for steals. He is going to look worse on advanced metrics for exactly the same reason. He’s a low IQ player who is often a detriment on defense. He’s been getting a little better as he ages, though.
Some of you are intoxicated by the *idea* of Westbrook. I sort of get it. As I keep pointing out, however, he just averaged a triple double for the season yet again, but he wasn’t an all-star (even as a reserve) and he wasn’t all-NBA (even third team). You may still be intoxicated, but the NBA community as a whole has sobered up.
_________________
Internet Argument Resolved |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LakerSD
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 23829
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| kikanga wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | He was playing hurt in the 2020 playoffs. I don't know where this Westbrook is a bad defender narrative comes from? |
It's because he's a mediocre defender at best. You cite DRPM and note that he was actually positive this year (+0.05). The previous year, he was -0.69, just behind Jordan Clarkson. The year before that, he was -2.00. The year before that, he was -2.32. So I guess you could say that he's gone from terrible to mediocre as he's aged.
You talk about his rebounding, but you should stop and think about that. If your point guard is chasing rebounds under the basket, who is guarding the opposing point guard? You talk about his steals, but steals are often a hallmark of bad defenders. This is because they gamble and flounder around a lot. Westbrook is always going to chase stats, so it's no surprise that he's prone to doing this.
Overall, Westbrook's defense is not really what concerns me. He would be a downgrade compared to Schroder, but he wouldn't be Isaiah Thomas bad. If I had to list his flaws, his defense would be low on the list. |
Ya'll really hate this man. More steals, deflections, loose balls chased down, defensive rebounding, DBPM and DWS than Schroder. Actually has the size and strength to guard both guard positions unlike Schroder. But he's still a "downgrade compared to Schroder" defensively. Just say you don't like him.
People out here trying to convince me advanced defensive stats are meaningless. And traditional defensive stats are meaningless. And the eyeball test is meaningless. And hustle stats are meaningless. And MVP's are meaningless. And his wins don't count cause after he beat those teams, they lost in the playins. And, and, and. He could rescue some people's moms from a burning building. And they'd be like, "but he didn't get the family pictures! Would've been better off without him." |
It’s Rondo 2.0
The heavy favor towards #analytics crowd hates him, while #eyetest heavy crowd sees his value.
The truth is somewhere in between lol.
It is pretty amazing though that there are arguments being made for a guy who has peaked as a 6th man (a la Lou Williams) over multiple time all-star Russell Westbrook.
Last edited by LakerSD on Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:52 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
