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DLaker Star Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 1540
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:13 am Post subject: |
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I won't trade somebody that show HoF potential for an unknown.
Lonzo is getting 7 reb 7 ast which is a very short list most of which are HOF (Oscar 6x, Magic 7x, Kidd 6x, MJ 1x) & future HOF (Westbrook 4x and Harden 1x), the only non HOF that did it are Fat Lever 3x and Darrell Walker 1X.
for Lonzo & Simmon to do it so early in there career shows me how good they can be as they grow stronger and more season in the NBA.
Same goes for Ingram, as he grows stonger and more consistent with his shot, he have a shot to be a superstar in the NBA. Both Lonzo and Ingram are just 20 yrs of age. |
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Fortysixn2 Star Player
Joined: 22 Jun 2016 Posts: 2849
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:41 am Post subject: |
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Every lottery pick is a gamble with a few exceptions (like Lebron). For every Porzingis there are two or three Jabari Parker, Okafor, Wes Johnson types. With Lonzo and BI, they are both trending to be at least very good NBA players...I’d rather have that then two more gambles. Would not trade either unless there was a Lebron level, sure shot type of guy we were going to get at #1. |
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AFireInside619 Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Dec 2015 Posts: 11447
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:58 am Post subject: |
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Hypothetically - No
Actuality - No
Although I'll never be a Lakers GM so it's all hypothetical, but my answer is still No.
I'm not trading either of these guys for the European Medowlark Lemon who's playing against the European Washington Generals. |
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Luminous8 Star Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2017 Posts: 2192
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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GoldenThroat wrote: | No on Lonzo. I'd trade Ingram for any lottery pick if that was a possibility. |
🙄.....yeah and there's no agenda. |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
Skills: Yes, a Tatum is more skilled right now. But you can see Ingram developing his skills from month to month. He gives quite a few guys the business already one-on-on. His drives are hard to stop without fouling and his midrange didn't look bad at all the last games. He is a late bloomer and still is able to create his own shot and gets more and more efficient.
It will take time. But how will opponents stop him in the future in the high-or low-post when they cannot push him around that much anymore and he can simply shoot right over them?
There is of course no guarantee that he reaches his ceiling. But his measurements are hard to ignore. I think of young Tracy McGrady when i see Ingram. McGrady was a non-factor in the first 2 or 3 years. Then he took off. Might happen with Ingram as well .... might not.
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McGrady wasn't a non-factor for his 1st 2 or 3 years, and unlike Ingram had ball-handling and elite athleticism in spades. Why do you think Jerry West tried to trade for him?
And I can't buy the Tatum argument. Tatum is at a higher data point with 1 year less NBA experience. Dude is already a solid defender in the same line of Ball and Hart for pete's sake. Ingram right now, isn't. What makes you think Tatum can't learn month to month?
You see McGrady? Yeah, we just flat out see the game differently overall. McGrady on less wingspan had a more devastating steal/block rate than Ingram. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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mookielala Star Player
Joined: 29 Jul 2012 Posts: 3026
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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I wouldn't trade either one, but I also think no teams will want the trade. There's more allure in the potential of a draft pick, but it usually doesn't match the hype. Both BI and Zo are developing nicely. No reason to throw that away for a lottery -- literally a gamble. |
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SocalDevin Star Player
Joined: 26 May 2016 Posts: 7825 Location: Long Beach
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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No.. smh. |
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Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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Mike@LG wrote: | Quote: |
Skills: Yes, a Tatum is more skilled right now. But you can see Ingram developing his skills from month to month. He gives quite a few guys the business already one-on-on. His drives are hard to stop without fouling and his midrange didn't look bad at all the last games. He is a late bloomer and still is able to create his own shot and gets more and more efficient.
It will take time. But how will opponents stop him in the future in the high-or low-post when they cannot push him around that much anymore and he can simply shoot right over them?
There is of course no guarantee that he reaches his ceiling. But his measurements are hard to ignore. I think of young Tracy McGrady when i see Ingram. McGrady was a non-factor in the first 2 or 3 years. Then he took off. Might happen with Ingram as well .... might not.
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McGrady wasn't a non-factor for his 1st 2 or 3 years, and unlike Ingram had ball-handling and elite athleticism in spades. Why do you think Jerry West tried to trade for him?
And I can't buy the Tatum argument. Tatum is at a higher data point with 1 year less NBA experience. Dude is already a solid defender in the same line of Ball and Hart for pete's sake. Ingram right now, isn't. What makes you think Tatum can't learn month to month?
You see McGrady? Yeah, we just flat out see the game differently overall. McGrady on less wingspan had a more devastating steal/block rate than Ingram. |
McGrady was an insane +4 BPM player at age 19 and proceeded to post over +6 BPM on average over the next eight seasons before injuries prematurely ended his career. Pre-injury Paul George, for comparison, peaked around 4.5 BPM. I think George's career is a pretty optimistic projection for Ingram - peak McGrady is pure fantasy.
As an aside, Mike, we were so spoiled with Kobe and McGrady. When I was growing up watching those two guys I took em for granted, and I haven't seen any skilled NBA wing with the kind of Gumby-like body control McGrady and Kobe had. Lavine is the closest, but he doesn't use it to attack the rim in the half-court and lacks the court awareness those two had to really maximize his athletic gifts. It's a damn shame. |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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^Yeah we were. It was stupid easy to pick those guys out in the draft. Kobe, McGrady, Gerald Wallace, etc.
I mean, if your approach is still 6'6"+ dude, elite athlete, stud ball-handler, that STILL goes a long way. Everything else gets fixed later. I guess what people don't realize was how McGrady was more Pippen/Odom in his game early on, before the scoring bonanza kicked in. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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tox Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015 Posts: 18083
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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Baron Von Humongous wrote: | Mike@LG wrote: | Quote: |
Skills: Yes, a Tatum is more skilled right now. But you can see Ingram developing his skills from month to month. He gives quite a few guys the business already one-on-on. His drives are hard to stop without fouling and his midrange didn't look bad at all the last games. He is a late bloomer and still is able to create his own shot and gets more and more efficient.
It will take time. But how will opponents stop him in the future in the high-or low-post when they cannot push him around that much anymore and he can simply shoot right over them?
There is of course no guarantee that he reaches his ceiling. But his measurements are hard to ignore. I think of young Tracy McGrady when i see Ingram. McGrady was a non-factor in the first 2 or 3 years. Then he took off. Might happen with Ingram as well .... might not.
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McGrady wasn't a non-factor for his 1st 2 or 3 years, and unlike Ingram had ball-handling and elite athleticism in spades. Why do you think Jerry West tried to trade for him?
And I can't buy the Tatum argument. Tatum is at a higher data point with 1 year less NBA experience. Dude is already a solid defender in the same line of Ball and Hart for pete's sake. Ingram right now, isn't. What makes you think Tatum can't learn month to month?
You see McGrady? Yeah, we just flat out see the game differently overall. McGrady on less wingspan had a more devastating steal/block rate than Ingram. |
McGrady was an insane +4 BPM player at age 19 and proceeded to post over +6 BPM on average over the next eight seasons before injuries prematurely ended his career. Pre-injury Paul George, for comparison, peaked around 4.5 BPM. I think George's career is a pretty optimistic projection for Ingram - peak McGrady is pure fantasy.
As an aside, Mike, we were so spoiled with Kobe and McGrady. When I was growing up watching those two guys I took em for granted, and I haven't seen any skilled NBA wing with the kind of Gumby-like body control McGrady and Kobe had. Lavine is the closest, but he doesn't use it to attack the rim in the half-court and lacks the court awareness those two had to really maximize his athletic gifts. It's a damn shame. |
I'm looking at T-Mac's +1.8 OBPM as a sophomore with his 50.4% TS%/ 15.0% TO% couldn't figure out how it was so high... Then I look at his ORBD%... 12.4%
3 guards/ wings ever accomplished that.
http://bkref.com/tiny/LiLxr |
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davidse Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Jul 2005 Posts: 14302
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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I'd trade anyone for Doncic.
Heck, I'd probably trade both Ball and Ingram for Doncic.
Ingram for Ayton or Bagley. maybe Bamba too because roster balance is part of the consideration.
That's about it.
(as of today anyway) |
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4stargeneralbulldog Starting Rotation
Joined: 26 Aug 2012 Posts: 739
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Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:26 am Post subject: |
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davidse wrote: | I'd trade anyone for Doncic.
Heck, I'd probably trade both Ball and Ingram for Doncic.
Ingram for Ayton or Bagley. maybe Bamba too because roster balance is part of the consideration.
That's about it.
(as of today anyway) |
Seems like quite a few people were right about Doncic, about half the people in this thread were right on Ingram's potential and wanted to give him some time, and a lot of people were wrong on Ball.
For once LG members were mostly right on Doncic, but boy were they wrong about Wiggins a few years back calling him a surefire superstar. |
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drae Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Nov 2018 Posts: 16190
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Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:38 am Post subject: |
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4stargeneralbulldog wrote: | but boy were they wrong about Wiggins a few years back calling him a surefire superstar. |
0.0
What aspects of Wiggins game made people think he's a surefire superstar? |
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danzag Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2013 Posts: 22443 Location: Brazil
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Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:42 am Post subject: |
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I would trade Lonzo AND Ingram for Anthony Davis |
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ChickenStu Retired Number
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 32330 Location: Anaheim, CA
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Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:11 am Post subject: |
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drae wrote: | 4stargeneralbulldog wrote: | but boy were they wrong about Wiggins a few years back calling him a surefire superstar. |
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What aspects of Wiggins game made people think he's a surefire superstar? |
From what I can recall, the thought among many (including myself) was that he could be a multi-faceted scorer who would be a plus defensively due to his length and athleticism. And it's turned out that he's been a negative defensively, of course. And this says nothing of the inefficient scoring. I recall some questioning his motor in college but I think many thought that he was just kind of sleepwalking through college, a la Ben Simmons, knowing he would be the presumptive #1 pick. |
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4stargeneralbulldog Starting Rotation
Joined: 26 Aug 2012 Posts: 739
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Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:25 am Post subject: |
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drae wrote: | 4stargeneralbulldog wrote: | but boy were they wrong about Wiggins a few years back calling him a surefire superstar. |
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What aspects of Wiggins game made people think he's a surefire superstar? |
I don't know you have to ask those LG members, that thread ran for a lot of pages, I think 100+, where most were proclaiming Wiggins as the next Kobe or Lebron, also he was also projected to be a surefire Hall of Famer. |
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