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Worthy42
Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 19952
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 Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Drifts wrote: | | Worthy42 wrote: | | Drifts wrote: | | Worthy42 wrote: | | KG on this team would look the same as Lamar and would receive the same flack because he would avg. the same numbers, impacting the game the same way, while being paid more. Look at what he's doing now in MN. |
stop sinking in Lamar's name. Save yourself. KG would look the same as Lamar??  |
it doesn't have to be lamar. fill in the ____ 2nd option right here, with any other player after 40 games with this squad, and they will get the same treatment on this board from you guys. |
It's how Lamar plays. Part of it is how he is used the wrong way. So if X player is used the way Lamar is and shows up the way Lamar has, I bet he'll get the same treatment. |
I agree. What we really need along with Kobe/Lamar/Mihm is a legit outside shooter. Smush is streaky, but we need someone who will hit the open shots at a more consistent clip. Someone like Wally, Peja, or even Piatkowski, Hoiberg... would do the job. Cook, George, Walton, Sasha... nobody fears their shot or moves to the hole. |
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Worthy42
Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 19952
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Kwame helps us on the interior defense but he absolutely kills us on the other end. We would've been so much better on offense with Caron there... but we probably would've suffered in the long run without the int. defense. |
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Drifts
Retired Number
Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Posts: 28415
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Worthy42 wrote: | | Drifts wrote: | | Worthy42 wrote: | | Drifts wrote: | | Worthy42 wrote: | | Drifts wrote: | | Worthy42 wrote: | | lakerfin wrote: | I'm listening to the pros and cons of Lamar Odom from everyone. I can see points on both sides. Love him, get rid of him. But for me ,the real problem is , you can't have your second most integral player be so indecisive, so unsure of himself, so LOST sometimes. He's seven years in? While he and Kwame both have unbelievable physical abilities, it's the ones that are confident and have mental toughness that really make a difference. If we lose a game, let it be because the other team just willed themselves past us, head to head, not because we have starters that are either weak minded (mentally/emotionally) or just content with collecting their fat checks. Some of these guys don't appreciate what an honor it is to be a part of this historic franchise...... Or to be paid to play a game they supposedly love.
Sure is a different game today. |
not even a full year of experience under the triangle offense as initiator yet. that's the real time table you have to look at.
it took kobe about 2 years to master, about the same time as a ron harper and brian shaw |
2 years for Kobe to master? |
yes, ron harper was the initiator the first year, in 2000 under phil.
kobe eventually filled into the role along with brian shaw |
I'm sorry...Ron was playing Smush's role (or his role during the Bulls era). Kobe was playing Odom's role (or Pip's role). Don't re-write history. |
Right, because Kobe got the tri, right off the bat. |
but it didn't take him 2 years like you said... |
Right, 2000 to 2002 is 2 years unless the math is off. |
you kidding me?
2000-2002 the Lakers were winning titles...Kobe average 22, 29 and 25 those years, averaging 5 asts in those years. Lamar barely touches 20+ per. No comparison there.
Again, stop re-writing history. You're bad at it..
_________________
"Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it." |
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Worthy42
Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 19952
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 12:00 am Post subject: |
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| Drifts wrote: | | Worthy42 wrote: | | Drifts wrote: | | Worthy42 wrote: | | Drifts wrote: | | Worthy42 wrote: | | Drifts wrote: | | Worthy42 wrote: | | lakerfin wrote: | I'm listening to the pros and cons of Lamar Odom from everyone. I can see points on both sides. Love him, get rid of him. But for me ,the real problem is , you can't have your second most integral player be so indecisive, so unsure of himself, so LOST sometimes. He's seven years in? While he and Kwame both have unbelievable physical abilities, it's the ones that are confident and have mental toughness that really make a difference. If we lose a game, let it be because the other team just willed themselves past us, head to head, not because we have starters that are either weak minded (mentally/emotionally) or just content with collecting their fat checks. Some of these guys don't appreciate what an honor it is to be a part of this historic franchise...... Or to be paid to play a game they supposedly love.
Sure is a different game today. |
not even a full year of experience under the triangle offense as initiator yet. that's the real time table you have to look at.
it took kobe about 2 years to master, about the same time as a ron harper and brian shaw |
2 years for Kobe to master? |
yes, ron harper was the initiator the first year, in 2000 under phil.
kobe eventually filled into the role along with brian shaw |
I'm sorry...Ron was playing Smush's role (or his role during the Bulls era). Kobe was playing Odom's role (or Pip's role). Don't re-write history. |
Right, because Kobe got the tri, right off the bat. |
but it didn't take him 2 years like you said... |
Right, 2000 to 2002 is 2 years unless the math is off. |
you kidding me?
2000-2002 the Lakers were winning titles...Kobe average 22, 29 and 25 those years, averaging 5 asts in those years. Lamar barely touches 20+ per. No comparison there.
Again, stop re-writing history. You're bad at it.. |
Initiator bud.
Kobe was an anomly to the traditional initiator role. That's why Phil and Tex were always at battle with him to run the offense as opposed to taking over the offense.
Harper / Shaw / Odom
Put those guys in perspective. Kobe was tutored into the role of initiator by Harp along with Phil and Tex. It took him 2 years to get acclimated to the triangle. Kobe has even said so in past interviews. Why do you think he's saying it'll take the team now time to learn?
Nobody's rewriting history, but the cobwebs need to be cleared from your side of the room. |
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Drifts
Retired Number
Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Posts: 28415
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 12:13 am Post subject: |
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| Worthy42 wrote: | | Drifts wrote: | | Worthy42 wrote: | | Drifts wrote: | | Worthy42 wrote: | | Drifts wrote: | | Worthy42 wrote: | | Drifts wrote: | | Worthy42 wrote: | | lakerfin wrote: | I'm listening to the pros and cons of Lamar Odom from everyone. I can see points on both sides. Love him, get rid of him. But for me ,the real problem is , you can't have your second most integral player be so indecisive, so unsure of himself, so LOST sometimes. He's seven years in? While he and Kwame both have unbelievable physical abilities, it's the ones that are confident and have mental toughness that really make a difference. If we lose a game, let it be because the other team just willed themselves past us, head to head, not because we have starters that are either weak minded (mentally/emotionally) or just content with collecting their fat checks. Some of these guys don't appreciate what an honor it is to be a part of this historic franchise...... Or to be paid to play a game they supposedly love.
Sure is a different game today. |
not even a full year of experience under the triangle offense as initiator yet. that's the real time table you have to look at.
it took kobe about 2 years to master, about the same time as a ron harper and brian shaw |
2 years for Kobe to master? |
yes, ron harper was the initiator the first year, in 2000 under phil.
kobe eventually filled into the role along with brian shaw |
I'm sorry...Ron was playing Smush's role (or his role during the Bulls era). Kobe was playing Odom's role (or Pip's role). Don't re-write history. |
Right, because Kobe got the tri, right off the bat. |
but it didn't take him 2 years like you said... |
Right, 2000 to 2002 is 2 years unless the math is off. |
you kidding me?
2000-2002 the Lakers were winning titles...Kobe average 22, 29 and 25 those years, averaging 5 asts in those years. Lamar barely touches 20+ per. No comparison there.
Again, stop re-writing history. You're bad at it.. |
Initiator bud.
Kobe was an anomly to the traditional initiator role. That's why Phil and Tex were always at battle with him to run the offense as opposed to taking over the offense.
Harper / Shaw / Odom
Put those guys in perspective. Kobe was tutored into the role of initiator by Harp along with Phil and Tex. It took him 2 years to get acclimated to the triangle. Kobe has even said so in past interviews. Why do you think he's saying it'll take the team now time to learn?
Nobody's rewriting history, but the cobwebs need to be cleared from your side of the room. |
So in your opinion, Kobe was bad in those 2 years?? When he basically did more than what a traditional initiator does?? Nevermind, we know Kobe did great in those years... All these are just excuses for Odom, he hasn't even mastered the basics of the tri.
Odom is not an initiator, he has not shown he's capable of being one. He may never show he is capable. He is not a point, he doesn't fit that role. We need to put someone else in that role and move Lamar somewhere we can maximize his abilities. It would be nice if we can bring someone else while keeping Lamar. The sad thing is, Lamar is the only trade bait we have.
_________________
"Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it." |
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shnjb
Franchise Player
Joined: 08 Oct 2002
Posts: 13320
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 12:20 am Post subject: |
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| Worthy42 wrote: | | Drifts wrote: | | Worthy42 wrote: | | Drifts wrote: | | Worthy42 wrote: | | Drifts wrote: | | Worthy42 wrote: | | lakerfin wrote: | I'm listening to the pros and cons of Lamar Odom from everyone. I can see points on both sides. Love him, get rid of him. But for me ,the real problem is , you can't have your second most integral player be so indecisive, so unsure of himself, so LOST sometimes. He's seven years in? While he and Kwame both have unbelievable physical abilities, it's the ones that are confident and have mental toughness that really make a difference. If we lose a game, let it be because the other team just willed themselves past us, head to head, not because we have starters that are either weak minded (mentally/emotionally) or just content with collecting their fat checks. Some of these guys don't appreciate what an honor it is to be a part of this historic franchise...... Or to be paid to play a game they supposedly love.
Sure is a different game today. |
not even a full year of experience under the triangle offense as initiator yet. that's the real time table you have to look at.
it took kobe about 2 years to master, about the same time as a ron harper and brian shaw |
2 years for Kobe to master? |
yes, ron harper was the initiator the first year, in 2000 under phil.
kobe eventually filled into the role along with brian shaw |
I'm sorry...Ron was playing Smush's role (or his role during the Bulls era). Kobe was playing Odom's role (or Pip's role). Don't re-write history. |
Right, because Kobe got the tri, right off the bat. |
but it didn't take him 2 years like you said... |
Right, 2000 to 2002 is 2 years unless the math is off. |
Did you know that getting the triangle is not the point of basketball?
Triangle offense is just one of many offensive systems used by NBA coaches to win championships.
From 2000 to 2002, Kobe might have struggled to "get the triangle" as you said, which is preposterous to begin with, but most importantly we won championships during that span... three in a row, I might add.
So why are you bickering about Kobe's ostensible inability grasp the triangle offense?
Oh, that's right; you're just another one of many clueless ODUMB homers.
Funny how fans of certain players have similar character traits as their favorite players. |
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critical_beatdown
Star Player
Joined: 01 Jan 2006
Posts: 2072
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 12:24 am Post subject: |
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Some of you guys have no clue.
Lamar is initiating fine...it's after that he's not maximizing his role on offense. |
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Worthy42
Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 19952
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 12:26 am Post subject: |
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| Drifts wrote: | | Worthy42 wrote: | | Drifts wrote: | | Worthy42 wrote: | | Drifts wrote: | | Worthy42 wrote: | | Drifts wrote: | | Worthy42 wrote: | | Drifts wrote: | | Worthy42 wrote: | | lakerfin wrote: | I'm listening to the pros and cons of Lamar Odom from everyone. I can see points on both sides. Love him, get rid of him. But for me ,the real problem is , you can't have your second most integral player be so indecisive, so unsure of himself, so LOST sometimes. He's seven years in? While he and Kwame both have unbelievable physical abilities, it's the ones that are confident and have mental toughness that really make a difference. If we lose a game, let it be because the other team just willed themselves past us, head to head, not because we have starters that are either weak minded (mentally/emotionally) or just content with collecting their fat checks. Some of these guys don't appreciate what an honor it is to be a part of this historic franchise...... Or to be paid to play a game they supposedly love.
Sure is a different game today. |
not even a full year of experience under the triangle offense as initiator yet. that's the real time table you have to look at.
it took kobe about 2 years to master, about the same time as a ron harper and brian shaw |
2 years for Kobe to master? |
yes, ron harper was the initiator the first year, in 2000 under phil.
kobe eventually filled into the role along with brian shaw |
I'm sorry...Ron was playing Smush's role (or his role during the Bulls era). Kobe was playing Odom's role (or Pip's role). Don't re-write history. |
Right, because Kobe got the tri, right off the bat. |
but it didn't take him 2 years like you said... |
Right, 2000 to 2002 is 2 years unless the math is off. |
you kidding me?
2000-2002 the Lakers were winning titles...Kobe average 22, 29 and 25 those years, averaging 5 asts in those years. Lamar barely touches 20+ per. No comparison there.
Again, stop re-writing history. You're bad at it.. |
Initiator bud.
Kobe was an anomly to the traditional initiator role. That's why Phil and Tex were always at battle with him to run the offense as opposed to taking over the offense.
Harper / Shaw / Odom
Put those guys in perspective. Kobe was tutored into the role of initiator by Harp along with Phil and Tex. It took him 2 years to get acclimated to the triangle. Kobe has even said so in past interviews. Why do you think he's saying it'll take the team now time to learn?
Nobody's rewriting history, but the cobwebs need to be cleared from your side of the room. |
So in your opinion, Kobe was bad in those 2 years?? When he basically did more than what a traditional initiator does?? Nevermind, we know Kobe did great in those years... All these are just excuses for Odom, he hasn't even mastered the basics of the tri.
Odom is not an initiator, he has not shown he's capable of being one. He may never show he is capable. He is not a point, he doesn't fit that role. We need to put someone else in that role and move Lamar somewhere we can maximize his abilities. It would be nice if we can bring someone else while keeping Lamar. The sad thing is, Lamar is the only trade bait we have. |
when did i say he was bad? i said he was learning the role, such as LO now. |
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Worthy42
Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 19952
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 12:26 am Post subject: |
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| shnjb wrote: | | Worthy42 wrote: | | Drifts wrote: | | Worthy42 wrote: | | Drifts wrote: | | Worthy42 wrote: | | Drifts wrote: | | Worthy42 wrote: | | lakerfin wrote: | I'm listening to the pros and cons of Lamar Odom from everyone. I can see points on both sides. Love him, get rid of him. But for me ,the real problem is , you can't have your second most integral player be so indecisive, so unsure of himself, so LOST sometimes. He's seven years in? While he and Kwame both have unbelievable physical abilities, it's the ones that are confident and have mental toughness that really make a difference. If we lose a game, let it be because the other team just willed themselves past us, head to head, not because we have starters that are either weak minded (mentally/emotionally) or just content with collecting their fat checks. Some of these guys don't appreciate what an honor it is to be a part of this historic franchise...... Or to be paid to play a game they supposedly love.
Sure is a different game today. |
not even a full year of experience under the triangle offense as initiator yet. that's the real time table you have to look at.
it took kobe about 2 years to master, about the same time as a ron harper and brian shaw |
2 years for Kobe to master? |
yes, ron harper was the initiator the first year, in 2000 under phil.
kobe eventually filled into the role along with brian shaw |
I'm sorry...Ron was playing Smush's role (or his role during the Bulls era). Kobe was playing Odom's role (or Pip's role). Don't re-write history. |
Right, because Kobe got the tri, right off the bat. |
but it didn't take him 2 years like you said... |
Right, 2000 to 2002 is 2 years unless the math is off. |
Did you know that getting the triangle is not the point of basketball?
Triangle offense is just one of many offensive systems used by NBA coaches to win championships.
From 2000 to 2002, Kobe might have struggled to "get the triangle" as you said, which is preposterous to begin with, but most importantly we won championships during that span... three in a row, I might add.
So why are you bickering about Kobe's ostensible inability grasp the triangle offense?
Oh, that's right; you're just another one of many clueless ODUMB homers.
Funny how fans of certain players have similar character traits as their favorite players. |
Where in all this, was it ever stated that Kobe did a 'bad' job? Fickle fans. |
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Drifts
Retired Number
Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Posts: 28415
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| Worthy42 wrote: | | Drifts wrote: | | Worthy42 wrote: | | Drifts wrote: | | Worthy42 wrote: | | Drifts wrote: | | Worthy42 wrote: | | Drifts wrote: | | Worthy42 wrote: | | Drifts wrote: | | Worthy42 wrote: | | lakerfin wrote: | I'm listening to the pros and cons of Lamar Odom from everyone. I can see points on both sides. Love him, get rid of him. But for me ,the real problem is , you can't have your second most integral player be so indecisive, so unsure of himself, so LOST sometimes. He's seven years in? While he and Kwame both have unbelievable physical abilities, it's the ones that are confident and have mental toughness that really make a difference. If we lose a game, let it be because the other team just willed themselves past us, head to head, not because we have starters that are either weak minded (mentally/emotionally) or just content with collecting their fat checks. Some of these guys don't appreciate what an honor it is to be a part of this historic franchise...... Or to be paid to play a game they supposedly love.
Sure is a different game today. |
not even a full year of experience under the triangle offense as initiator yet. that's the real time table you have to look at.
it took kobe about 2 years to master, about the same time as a ron harper and brian shaw |
2 years for Kobe to master? |
yes, ron harper was the initiator the first year, in 2000 under phil.
kobe eventually filled into the role along with brian shaw |
I'm sorry...Ron was playing Smush's role (or his role during the Bulls era). Kobe was playing Odom's role (or Pip's role). Don't re-write history. |
Right, because Kobe got the tri, right off the bat. |
but it didn't take him 2 years like you said... |
Right, 2000 to 2002 is 2 years unless the math is off. |
you kidding me?
2000-2002 the Lakers were winning titles...Kobe average 22, 29 and 25 those years, averaging 5 asts in those years. Lamar barely touches 20+ per. No comparison there.
Again, stop re-writing history. You're bad at it.. |
Initiator bud.
Kobe was an anomly to the traditional initiator role. That's why Phil and Tex were always at battle with him to run the offense as opposed to taking over the offense.
Harper / Shaw / Odom
Put those guys in perspective. Kobe was tutored into the role of initiator by Harp along with Phil and Tex. It took him 2 years to get acclimated to the triangle. Kobe has even said so in past interviews. Why do you think he's saying it'll take the team now time to learn?
Nobody's rewriting history, but the cobwebs need to be cleared from your side of the room. |
So in your opinion, Kobe was bad in those 2 years?? When he basically did more than what a traditional initiator does?? Nevermind, we know Kobe did great in those years... All these are just excuses for Odom, he hasn't even mastered the basics of the tri.
Odom is not an initiator, he has not shown he's capable of being one. He may never show he is capable. He is not a point, he doesn't fit that role. We need to put someone else in that role and move Lamar somewhere we can maximize his abilities. It would be nice if we can bring someone else while keeping Lamar. The sad thing is, Lamar is the only trade bait we have. |
when did i say he was bad? i said he was learning the role, such as LO now. |
You defended Odom by comparing him to Kobe's 1st 2 years in the triangle. Again, 22 points, 1st team all-defense and good closer in the 1st year...Odom is playing bad right now. No comparisons. If Odom posts something close to those numbers and plays the way Kobe did, we can talk.
_________________
"Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it." |
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VonWafer&KobeBryantFa
Starting Rotation
Joined: 22 Jul 2005
Posts: 763
Location: Iowa
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 6:36 am Post subject: |
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| If he himself hasn't figured that out in 46 games then how are we? I mean seriously we have had 46 games to wait and watch and it hasn't happened yet so do you think it will happen? |
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bounty
Star Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 3946
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 6:50 am Post subject: |
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| vanexelent wrote: |
Rebounds can easily be compensated for and picked up by the collective team. Without Odom's average of 9 rebounds a game tonight, the team all stepped up grabbing some boards.
Kobe-9 rbs.
Mihm-9 rbs.
Walton-7 rbs.
George- 5 rbs
Brown-5 rbs.
Cook-4 rbs.
Using rebounds as a reason to keep Odom does not make sense. Odom is made out to be an initiator of the triangle, but again, Walton had 5 assists tonight, as did Kobe. So, initiators can be replaced as well. Odom creates mismatches for opposing SF. How so? His abnormal dribbling skills for his size is wasted when he doesn't shoot or just misses when he does.
I think Odom's absence shows how replacable his assests are and how in need of a scorer the team is. Trade him Mitch. |
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magic_bryant
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 18179
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| bounty wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: |
Rebounds can easily be compensated for and picked up by the collective team. Without Odom's average of 9 rebounds a game tonight, the team all stepped up grabbing some boards.
Kobe-9 rbs.
Mihm-9 rbs.
Walton-7 rbs.
George- 5 rbs
Brown-5 rbs.
Cook-4 rbs.
Using rebounds as a reason to keep Odom does not make sense. Odom is made out to be an initiator of the triangle, but again, Walton had 5 assists tonight, as did Kobe. So, initiators can be replaced as well. Odom creates mismatches for opposing SF. How so? His abnormal dribbling skills for his size is wasted when he doesn't shoot or just misses when he does.
I think Odom's absence shows how replacable his assests are and how in need of a scorer the team is. Trade him Mitch. |
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Funny, but I'm pretty sure we lost last night's game with our INABILITY to grab defensive rebounds. The fact is, EVERY NBA team will find a way to grab their way to 36-42 team rebounds, about where we were last night. HOWEVER, the KEY to rebounding is limiting OFFENSIVE rebounds. I haven't looked at that stat sheet, but I'd guess we GAVE UP roughly 15+ Offensive rebounds.
_________________
Stephon Marbury on Kobe: "He's the only person on 'dis earth that can do 'dat. He guards people, like shuts 'em down. Then, to do 'dat on 'da offensive end. It's like 'Damn, I can't score on him AND he about to bust my ass." |
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wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58374
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 8:21 am Post subject: |
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It wasn't just rebounding. That was a problem in the 2nd half, no doubt. But the main problem was overall defense. They weren't sticking to their man well at all. The rotations were slow and there was very little help defense played.
They need to start from scratch. Get back to where they were early in the season when they were stopping teams through team defense.
I'm still suprised that so many can't just admit that the Lakers are a weaker team without their 2nd best player. That should be obvious .... |
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vanexelent
Retired Number
Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 30081
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | Sure, Odom is important if we have to replace him with Devean George and Brian Cook. He's better than them.
That's the fallacy of this whole argument. Other than the hotheads, few people would say that the Lakers are better off without Odom. We think that the Lakers would be better off trading Odom for a player or players who are a better fit for our needs. |
That's fine.
And I haven't even said that once in either thread.
But the fact is, there's so much Odom hate - that guys won't even admit as much as you did in the first sentence.
Is it that hard to acknowledge that Odom makes Kobe's job easier on offense? Or that he facilitates the Lakers offense? The only player who has even close to quality talent on this team after Kobe is Odom. And he wasn't playing tonight.
Ofcourse they would be worse. |
It would be more benificial, then, to have a solid PG who can facilitate the offense, allowing Kobe to score, sine that is what a true PG is. Since Odom is not getting it done as a scorer, and his rebounds can be made up for, why not trade him for a scoring PG, that can also facilitate the offense, specifically allowing Kobe to concentrate on scoring?
It's obvious that Odom IS our 2nd best player and that it is even worse when he goes out because now the second option is Smush Parker, which is pathetic. My preference would be a scoring PG who can handle the role that Odom is inept to play. |
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wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58374
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:22 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | It would be more benificial, then, to have a solid PG who can facilitate the offense, allowing Kobe to score, sine that is what a true PG is. Since Odom is not getting it done as a scorer, and his rebounds can be made up for, why not trade him for a scoring PG, that can also facilitate the offense, specifically allowing Kobe to concentrate on scoring? |
Well it depends.
Who is this PG you speak of?
Because that PG better be Deron Williams, Kirk Hinrich, Andre Miller and other Triangle fitting guards.
While I don't disagree with that notion - finding a PG will be hard. It's not easy to get a guy that can play unselfishly when running the point in the NBA.
| Quote: | | It's obvious that Odom IS our 2nd best player and that it is even worse when he goes out because now the second option is Smush Parker, which is pathetic. My preference would be a scoring PG who can handle the role that Odom is inept to play |
How's Hinrich in 2007?
I think Kirk is a stud PG ready made for the Tri and to play with Kobe. |
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THE_SHOES
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 29556
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:34 am Post subject: |
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| bounty wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: |
Rebounds can easily be compensated for and picked up by the collective team. Without Odom's average of 9 rebounds a game tonight, the team all stepped up grabbing some boards.
Kobe-9 rbs.
Mihm-9 rbs.
Walton-7 rbs.
George- 5 rbs
Brown-5 rbs.
Cook-4 rbs.
Using rebounds as a reason to keep Odom does not make sense. Odom is made out to be an initiator of the triangle, but again, Walton had 5 assists tonight, as did Kobe. So, initiators can be replaced as well. Odom creates mismatches for opposing SF. How so? His abnormal dribbling skills for his size is wasted when he doesn't shoot or just misses when he does.
I think Odom's absence shows how replacable his assests are and how in need of a scorer the team is. Trade him Mitch. |
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Well unfortuanately for you bounty my man Mitch is a little smarter than you and nope. LO stays...
The Lakers don't have problems putting points up on the board so, why do you insist on going that route? This team is struggling defensively. LO has nothing to do with the way opposing teams guard corps are scoring at will on the Lakers. If you left LO alone for 5 minutes even with your strange agenda towards him should be able to see that...
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"According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.." |
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Pappy
Star Player
Joined: 02 May 2004
Posts: 3203
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:40 am Post subject: |
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I think Odom is proving that he's a very good role player that we desperatly need. we cant really afford to lose any production at this point, but as a second option, we dfinetly need someone else.
I thought last year when odom, Butler, and Kobe were on the floor togather, Odom was lost due to butlers presence!...In hindsight, little did I realize he was playing his perfect role!....we desperatly need another threat! |
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Sage_10
Star Player
Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 6668
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| critical_beatdown wrote: | Some of you guys have no clue.
Lamar is initiating fine...it's after that he's not maximizing his role on offense. |
That about sums it up. |
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wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58374
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 10:10 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Odom was lost due to butlers presence!...In hindsight, little did I realize he was playing his perfect role!....we desperatly need another threat! |
I argued this heavily.
Butler would have been a very solid 2nd option. Let LO bring the ball up and allow Bryant and Butler to attack from both wing spots or one in the post and the other on the wing.
No matter how much we needed a big, Butler's ability to put points in his sleep was ignored by soo many.
Even if Caron was a 6th man - he's good for 13-14 points easy. And in situations like now where LO is out - Butler steps in and scores 20+ easy.
But whatever, it's all moot now. I just hate that Caron was traded for a guy that's having trouble starting at PF .... |
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Aeneas Hunter
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Wolfpac -- Is it that hard to acknowledge that Odom makes Kobe's job easier on offense? |
I question whether that provides significant value to the team. Kobe needs a teammate, not a caddy.
| Quote: | | Wolfpac -- Or that he facilitates the Lakers offense? |
I question his value as the initiator of the offense. So does Tex. Watching the games, I just don't see him doing much to facilitate the offense.
| Quote: | | Wolfpac -- The only player who has even close to quality talent on this team after Kobe is Odom. And he wasn't playing tonight. |
This part I agree with. We lack depth on this team. For all of his flaws, Odom is better than George, Cook, and Walton. The short-run loss of Odom is a blow to the team because we have don't have much to replace him with.
Just as there are hotheads who claim that Odom is one of the best players in the league, there are hotheads who say he totally sucks. That's just message board static. The important question is whether Odom is a valuable part of the team in the long run, not whether we're better off with him injured. Of course the team is worse off in the short run with him injured. |
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angel
Franchise Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 14226
Location: city of angels
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 10:48 am Post subject: |
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Lamar is a poor man's KG. KG does just about everything a bit better.
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"Darkness cannot drive out darkness. Only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that." ~~Martin Luther King Jr.~~ |
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GameCock-MD
Star Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 4498
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:01 am Post subject: Re: Some people are going to soon realize how important Odom |
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| LTD wrote: | | is to this team. |
So what happened to the game where LAMAR played earlier this year and in CHARLOTTE last year???
Who saved the day? Did we blowout the Bobcats?
LO disappeared then and he will disappear on a regular basis...
People don't want to give up on his potential so they ignore current and past reality hoping for a better future...
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Build around team players, not ISO players. |
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wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58374
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I question whether that provides significant value to the team. Kobe needs a teammate, not a caddy. |
That's up to you.
I personally feel that Kobe does need someone that can do all the little things for him. Kobe needs to just focus on scoring and playing defense. Odom allows Kobe do that.
The scoring help can come through capspace and the interior help can come through Andrew Bynum.
| Quote: | | I question his value as the initiator of the offense. So does Tex. Watching the games, I just don't see him doing much to facilitate the offense |
He's up and down, no doubts there. He makes some bad decisions.
But the critical aspect that is ignored. He is better than Smush and he allows Kobe to not take on that responsibility.
If there were a quality PG on this roster, I would trade Odom for a better SF. Why? Because I know that the PG would more than take over Odom's job.
But our starting PG is Smush Parker. He had 8 TO's yesterday trying to do not even half of the responsibility that LO ussually has (and Kobe was doing the other half)
If we sign a quality PG - I am more than willing to deal LO for a better scoring SF - assuming that Kwame and Mihm will pick it up on the boards.
But Parker is no PG. He is solid SG. Put him in the PG Role - and that A/TO role that looks soo sexy now will look really bad very soon. There's a reason he never made it as a PG in the NBA.
So to sum it up - Trade Odom is not a problem with me. Just trade him for a quality bigman or sign a quality PG and then trade him for a better scoring SF. |
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eniq 0x00
Star Player
Joined: 06 Aug 2005
Posts: 2724
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: |
But our starting PG is Smush Parker. He had 8 TO's yesterday trying to do not even half of the responsibility that LO ussually has (and Kobe was doing the other half)
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Most of those turnovers weren't forced, so it's just a matter of the guy learning to be more cautious. He'll learn, there's no doubt about it. I doubt anyone else feels worse about those turnovers than him.
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"In essence, the trade was: Shaq, Rick Fox and Gary Payton for Odom, Kwame, Mihm, Profit, 2nd round picks, a 1st round pick and 30 million in luxury tax saviings." - LakerJam
^^ Farmar
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