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BigGameHames
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 Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| 44TheLogo wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | 44TheLogo wrote: | | Wright is a system coach (4 out 1 in motion). You don't want a college coach who has a system in the NBA. That's recipe for disaster. Personally, I think that to be successful, NBA coaches have to have adaptability and a mastery of all styles of play rather than just one system that they try to fit pieces into. Coach K would be successful with pros because he can adapt the style of play to fit the strengths of his personnel. Same thing with a guy like Izzo whose teams focus on defense and rebounding, which would translate to the pros. Pitino was not because he tried to bring his system of full court press to the NBA. College system guys like Boeheim (2-3), Roy Williams (secondary break), Jay Wright would struggle in the NBA without GM powers to get personnel that fit their systems, and that's without even considering whether their system would work in the NBA. |
A 4 out 1 in motion isn't a super strict system. It's fairly adaptable in itself. More of a structure to build off of than a strict system IMO. |
every "system" is a structure to build off of. they all need the right personnel to succeed. my point, again, is that to have a system coach succeed in the NBA, that system coach needs to have GM powers to find the right personnel. are you ready to give a college coach carte blanche to be coach AND make personnel decisions?
the first question is, can this system work in the NBA? if you think yes, it can, then the second question is, do we have a GM who understands this system as well as the coach we want does? if not, then are we ready to hand over the reigns of personnel and salary and all the things that come with being a GM to this coach? |
Yes in a sense all systems are a structure to build off of but some are much stricter than others and aren't very adaptable. Boeheims 2-3 zone for instance needs long athletic players and without them it is pretty much impossible to use. A 4 out 1 in is much more flexible than that and can be adapted to the kind of talent you have. Mitch Kupcheck is a very good GM and I am confident that he will be able to work with whatever coach they get to form a team that fits what the coach is trying to do. I don't believe you would have to give jay wright full control to have success. |
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CamReddish
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Joined: 23 Jun 2015
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | 44TheLogo wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | 44TheLogo wrote: | | Wright is a system coach (4 out 1 in motion). You don't want a college coach who has a system in the NBA. That's recipe for disaster. Personally, I think that to be successful, NBA coaches have to have adaptability and a mastery of all styles of play rather than just one system that they try to fit pieces into. Coach K would be successful with pros because he can adapt the style of play to fit the strengths of his personnel. Same thing with a guy like Izzo whose teams focus on defense and rebounding, which would translate to the pros. Pitino was not because he tried to bring his system of full court press to the NBA. College system guys like Boeheim (2-3), Roy Williams (secondary break), Jay Wright would struggle in the NBA without GM powers to get personnel that fit their systems, and that's without even considering whether their system would work in the NBA. |
A 4 out 1 in motion isn't a super strict system. It's fairly adaptable in itself. More of a structure to build off of than a strict system IMO. |
every "system" is a structure to build off of. they all need the right personnel to succeed. my point, again, is that to have a system coach succeed in the NBA, that system coach needs to have GM powers to find the right personnel. are you ready to give a college coach carte blanche to be coach AND make personnel decisions?
the first question is, can this system work in the NBA? if you think yes, it can, then the second question is, do we have a GM who understands this system as well as the coach we want does? if not, then are we ready to hand over the reigns of personnel and salary and all the things that come with being a GM to this coach? |
Yes in a sense all systems are a structure to build off of but some are much stricter than others and aren't very adaptable. Boeheims 2-3 zone for instance needs long athletic players and without them it is pretty much impossible to use. A 4 out 1 in is much more flexible than that and can be adapted to the kind of talent you have. Mitch Kupcheck is a very good GM and I am confident that he will be able to work with whatever coach they get to form a team that fits what the coach is trying to do. I don't believe you would have to give jay wright full control to have success. |
Exactly, it is also hard to add layers in the college game because you only have these players so long and you might have a few freshmen that are really good and you need to get them on the court asap. |
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BigGameHames
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Joined: 24 May 2015
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Russell1 wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | 44TheLogo wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | 44TheLogo wrote: | | Wright is a system coach (4 out 1 in motion). You don't want a college coach who has a system in the NBA. That's recipe for disaster. Personally, I think that to be successful, NBA coaches have to have adaptability and a mastery of all styles of play rather than just one system that they try to fit pieces into. Coach K would be successful with pros because he can adapt the style of play to fit the strengths of his personnel. Same thing with a guy like Izzo whose teams focus on defense and rebounding, which would translate to the pros. Pitino was not because he tried to bring his system of full court press to the NBA. College system guys like Boeheim (2-3), Roy Williams (secondary break), Jay Wright would struggle in the NBA without GM powers to get personnel that fit their systems, and that's without even considering whether their system would work in the NBA. |
A 4 out 1 in motion isn't a super strict system. It's fairly adaptable in itself. More of a structure to build off of than a strict system IMO. |
every "system" is a structure to build off of. they all need the right personnel to succeed. my point, again, is that to have a system coach succeed in the NBA, that system coach needs to have GM powers to find the right personnel. are you ready to give a college coach carte blanche to be coach AND make personnel decisions?
the first question is, can this system work in the NBA? if you think yes, it can, then the second question is, do we have a GM who understands this system as well as the coach we want does? if not, then are we ready to hand over the reigns of personnel and salary and all the things that come with being a GM to this coach? |
Yes in a sense all systems are a structure to build off of but some are much stricter than others and aren't very adaptable. Boeheims 2-3 zone for instance needs long athletic players and without them it is pretty much impossible to use. A 4 out 1 in is much more flexible than that and can be adapted to the kind of talent you have. Mitch Kupcheck is a very good GM and I am confident that he will be able to work with whatever coach they get to form a team that fits what the coach is trying to do. I don't believe you would have to give jay wright full control to have success. |
Exactly, it is also hard to add layers in the college game because you only have these players so long and you might have a few freshmen that are really good and you need to get them on the court asap. |
Yep having a second coach/high IQ player at PG (archidiacono/Russell) helps being able to add those layers as well. I'm not sure Jay Wright would have immediate success which is why he's not my top choice, but I do think he can build something if given a young NBA team. |
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KobeRe-Loaded
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| 22 wrote: | I think Hoiberg should have gone to a younger team w/o and identity yet i.e. us.
Hard to change the culture with all those vets in Chi |
Exactly! This is why I think Wright might consider the Lakers if they came and offered him $4-5M a year.
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44TheLogo
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: |
Yes in a sense all systems are a structure to build off of but some are much stricter than others and aren't very adaptable. Boeheims 2-3 zone for instance needs long athletic players and without them it is pretty much impossible to use. A 4 out 1 in is much more flexible than that and can be adapted to the kind of talent you have. Mitch Kupcheck is a very good GM and I am confident that he will be able to work with whatever coach they get to form a team that fits what the coach is trying to do. I don't believe you would have to give jay wright full control to have success. |
4 out 1 in means you have to have an elite "1" in the middle. drummond, dwight. Do you believe we can get an elite center in the span of Jay Wright's first coaching contract, which would likely be at most 4-5 years? If we miss on Whiteside this offseason (who is a question mark in and of himself), who else do we go after to be that anchor in the middle? Do we then trade our whole team for Cousins? If we don't get an anchor in the middle within 4-5 years, and the system fails to materialize, does that mean Jay Wright was a failure in the NBA or does that mean that we just weren't able to pull off the required moves in order to make his system work?
Acquiring elite talent in the NBA is so hard as it is that no GM in their right mind wants the extra burden of having to fit that talent to a coach's system. I think it's far more important to find a coach who can fit their system to the talent than to find a player who can fit a system. |
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| 44TheLogo wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: |
Yes in a sense all systems are a structure to build off of but some are much stricter than others and aren't very adaptable. Boeheims 2-3 zone for instance needs long athletic players and without them it is pretty much impossible to use. A 4 out 1 in is much more flexible than that and can be adapted to the kind of talent you have. Mitch Kupcheck is a very good GM and I am confident that he will be able to work with whatever coach they get to form a team that fits what the coach is trying to do. I don't believe you would have to give jay wright full control to have success. |
4 out 1 in means you have to have an elite "1" in the middle. drummond, dwight. Do you believe we can get an elite center in the span of Jay Wright's first coaching contract, which would likely be at most 4-5 years? If we miss on Whiteside this offseason (who is a question mark in and of himself), who else do we go after to be that anchor in the middle? Do we then trade our whole team for Cousins? If we don't get an anchor in the middle within 4-5 years, and the system fails to materialize, does that mean Jay Wright was a failure in the NBA or does that mean that we just weren't able to pull off the required moves in order to make his system work?
Acquiring elite talent in the NBA is so hard as it is that no GM in their right mind wants the extra burden of having to fit that talent to a coach's system. I think it's far more important to find a coach who can fit their system to the talent than to find a player who can fit a system. |
No it doesn't mean that at all. You're completely jumping to conclusions about this system thing. You need a big who can rim run and roll hard off of on balls but they don't have to be elite at all. We need a big who can be a defensive anchor more than anything but we already knew that despite who the coach is. Wright has always been guard orientated so idk why you are assuming all these things about the big in his motion offense. A 4 out 1 in motion offense is one of the easiest offenses to adapt to talent. |
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44TheLogo
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | 44TheLogo wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: |
Yes in a sense all systems are a structure to build off of but some are much stricter than others and aren't very adaptable. Boeheims 2-3 zone for instance needs long athletic players and without them it is pretty much impossible to use. A 4 out 1 in is much more flexible than that and can be adapted to the kind of talent you have. Mitch Kupcheck is a very good GM and I am confident that he will be able to work with whatever coach they get to form a team that fits what the coach is trying to do. I don't believe you would have to give jay wright full control to have success. |
4 out 1 in means you have to have an elite "1" in the middle. drummond, dwight. Do you believe we can get an elite center in the span of Jay Wright's first coaching contract, which would likely be at most 4-5 years? If we miss on Whiteside this offseason (who is a question mark in and of himself), who else do we go after to be that anchor in the middle? Do we then trade our whole team for Cousins? If we don't get an anchor in the middle within 4-5 years, and the system fails to materialize, does that mean Jay Wright was a failure in the NBA or does that mean that we just weren't able to pull off the required moves in order to make his system work?
Acquiring elite talent in the NBA is so hard as it is that no GM in their right mind wants the extra burden of having to fit that talent to a coach's system. I think it's far more important to find a coach who can fit their system to the talent than to find a player who can fit a system. |
No it doesn't mean that at all. You're completely jumping to conclusions about this system thing. You need a big who can rim run and roll hard off of on balls but they don't have to be elite at all. We need a big who can be a defensive anchor more than anything but we already knew that despite who the coach is. Wright has always been guard orientated so idk why you are assuming all these things about the big in his motion offense. A 4 out 1 in motion offense is one of the easiest offenses to adapt to talent. |
a big who rim runs and rolls hard off picks and finish, and can defend, and rebound would be elite in today's NBA. |
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CamReddish
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Joined: 23 Jun 2015
Posts: 8036
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| 44TheLogo wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | 44TheLogo wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: |
Yes in a sense all systems are a structure to build off of but some are much stricter than others and aren't very adaptable. Boeheims 2-3 zone for instance needs long athletic players and without them it is pretty much impossible to use. A 4 out 1 in is much more flexible than that and can be adapted to the kind of talent you have. Mitch Kupcheck is a very good GM and I am confident that he will be able to work with whatever coach they get to form a team that fits what the coach is trying to do. I don't believe you would have to give jay wright full control to have success. |
4 out 1 in means you have to have an elite "1" in the middle. drummond, dwight. Do you believe we can get an elite center in the span of Jay Wright's first coaching contract, which would likely be at most 4-5 years? If we miss on Whiteside this offseason (who is a question mark in and of himself), who else do we go after to be that anchor in the middle? Do we then trade our whole team for Cousins? If we don't get an anchor in the middle within 4-5 years, and the system fails to materialize, does that mean Jay Wright was a failure in the NBA or does that mean that we just weren't able to pull off the required moves in order to make his system work?
Acquiring elite talent in the NBA is so hard as it is that no GM in their right mind wants the extra burden of having to fit that talent to a coach's system. I think it's far more important to find a coach who can fit their system to the talent than to find a player who can fit a system. |
No it doesn't mean that at all. You're completely jumping to conclusions about this system thing. You need a big who can rim run and roll hard off of on balls but they don't have to be elite at all. We need a big who can be a defensive anchor more than anything but we already knew that despite who the coach is. Wright has always been guard orientated so idk why you are assuming all these things about the big in his motion offense. A 4 out 1 in motion offense is one of the easiest offenses to adapt to talent. |
a big who rim runs and rolls hard off picks and finish, and can defend, and rebound would be elite in today's NBA. |
Not really unless he is elite at those things. Ed Davis is good at all those things but isn't elite |
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2019
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Joined: 03 Dec 2014
Posts: 10883
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Russell1 wrote: | | 44TheLogo wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | 44TheLogo wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: |
Yes in a sense all systems are a structure to build off of but some are much stricter than others and aren't very adaptable. Boeheims 2-3 zone for instance needs long athletic players and without them it is pretty much impossible to use. A 4 out 1 in is much more flexible than that and can be adapted to the kind of talent you have. Mitch Kupcheck is a very good GM and I am confident that he will be able to work with whatever coach they get to form a team that fits what the coach is trying to do. I don't believe you would have to give jay wright full control to have success. |
4 out 1 in means you have to have an elite "1" in the middle. drummond, dwight. Do you believe we can get an elite center in the span of Jay Wright's first coaching contract, which would likely be at most 4-5 years? If we miss on Whiteside this offseason (who is a question mark in and of himself), who else do we go after to be that anchor in the middle? Do we then trade our whole team for Cousins? If we don't get an anchor in the middle within 4-5 years, and the system fails to materialize, does that mean Jay Wright was a failure in the NBA or does that mean that we just weren't able to pull off the required moves in order to make his system work?
Acquiring elite talent in the NBA is so hard as it is that no GM in their right mind wants the extra burden of having to fit that talent to a coach's system. I think it's far more important to find a coach who can fit their system to the talent than to find a player who can fit a system. |
No it doesn't mean that at all. You're completely jumping to conclusions about this system thing. You need a big who can rim run and roll hard off of on balls but they don't have to be elite at all. We need a big who can be a defensive anchor more than anything but we already knew that despite who the coach is. Wright has always been guard orientated so idk why you are assuming all these things about the big in his motion offense. A 4 out 1 in motion offense is one of the easiest offenses to adapt to talent. |
a big who rim runs and rolls hard off picks and finish, and can defend, and rebound would be elite in today's NBA. |
Not really unless he is elite at those things. Ed Davis is good at all those things but isn't elite |
*cough cough* Whiteside *cough* |
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MJST
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Posts: 26722
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| 22 wrote: | I think Hoiberg should have gone to a younger team w/o an identity yet i.e. us.
Hard to change the culture with all those vets in Chi |
yeah except Chicago was a top 4 defensive team and the number 2 team in the east.
INJURIES took this Bulls team out, it wasn't a "hoiberg disaster" like the media keeps trying to spin it. Bulls were sitting pretty till Noah got hurt and then subsequently they really were hurt when Butler went down.
Till the injuries hit the Bulls were the number 2 team in the East and a top 5 defensive team.
But the media would have you forget that Hoiberg had that team playing grat basketball and try to make you think they'd been bad all year and not that injuries have cost the team mor than anything Hoiberg has done.
Selective memory of the media at best, cause they want to sell a different story.
| 2019 wrote: |
*cough cough* Whiteside *cough* |
Overrated like Deandre Jordan was. |
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ahaider
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Joined: 21 Feb 2012
Posts: 3501
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | 22 wrote: | I think Hoiberg should have gone to a younger team w/o an identity yet i.e. us.
Hard to change the culture with all those vets in Chi |
yeah except Chicago was a top 4 defensive team and the number 2 team in the east.
INJURIES took this Bulls team out, it wasn't a "hoiberg disaster" like the media keeps trying to spin it. Bulls were sitting pretty till Noah got hurt and then subsequently they really were hurt when Butler went down.
Till the injuries hit the Bulls were the number 2 team in the East and a top 5 defensive team.
But the media would have you forget that Hoiberg had that team playing grat basketball and try to make you think they'd been bad all year and not that injuries have cost the team mor than anything Hoiberg has done.
Selective memory of the media at best, cause they want to sell a different story.
| 2019 wrote: |
*cough cough* Whiteside *cough* |
Overrated like Deandre Jordan was. |
Miami is 4th in opponent's PPG. They have no defenders in either guard spot & luol deng is oft on injured. Whiteside anchors that defense.
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"The key to good decision making is not knowledge. It is understanding. We are swimming in the former. We are desperately lacking in the latter." - Malcom Gladwell |
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BigGameHames
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Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Russell1 wrote: | | 44TheLogo wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | 44TheLogo wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: |
Yes in a sense all systems are a structure to build off of but some are much stricter than others and aren't very adaptable. Boeheims 2-3 zone for instance needs long athletic players and without them it is pretty much impossible to use. A 4 out 1 in is much more flexible than that and can be adapted to the kind of talent you have. Mitch Kupcheck is a very good GM and I am confident that he will be able to work with whatever coach they get to form a team that fits what the coach is trying to do. I don't believe you would have to give jay wright full control to have success. |
4 out 1 in means you have to have an elite "1" in the middle. drummond, dwight. Do you believe we can get an elite center in the span of Jay Wright's first coaching contract, which would likely be at most 4-5 years? If we miss on Whiteside this offseason (who is a question mark in and of himself), who else do we go after to be that anchor in the middle? Do we then trade our whole team for Cousins? If we don't get an anchor in the middle within 4-5 years, and the system fails to materialize, does that mean Jay Wright was a failure in the NBA or does that mean that we just weren't able to pull off the required moves in order to make his system work?
Acquiring elite talent in the NBA is so hard as it is that no GM in their right mind wants the extra burden of having to fit that talent to a coach's system. I think it's far more important to find a coach who can fit their system to the talent than to find a player who can fit a system. |
No it doesn't mean that at all. You're completely jumping to conclusions about this system thing. You need a big who can rim run and roll hard off of on balls but they don't have to be elite at all. We need a big who can be a defensive anchor more than anything but we already knew that despite who the coach is. Wright has always been guard orientated so idk why you are assuming all these things about the big in his motion offense. A 4 out 1 in motion offense is one of the easiest offenses to adapt to talent. |
a big who rim runs and rolls hard off picks and finish, and can defend, and rebound would be elite in today's NBA. |
Not really unless he is elite at those things. Ed Davis is good at all those things but isn't elite |
Tarik Black isn't even that good and can do those things |
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MJST
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Posts: 26722
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| ahaider wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | 22 wrote: | I think Hoiberg should have gone to a younger team w/o an identity yet i.e. us.
Hard to change the culture with all those vets in Chi |
yeah except Chicago was a top 4 defensive team and the number 2 team in the east.
INJURIES took this Bulls team out, it wasn't a "hoiberg disaster" like the media keeps trying to spin it. Bulls were sitting pretty till Noah got hurt and then subsequently they really were hurt when Butler went down.
Till the injuries hit the Bulls were the number 2 team in the East and a top 5 defensive team.
But the media would have you forget that Hoiberg had that team playing grat basketball and try to make you think they'd been bad all year and not that injuries have cost the team mor than anything Hoiberg has done.
Selective memory of the media at best, cause they want to sell a different story.
| 2019 wrote: |
*cough cough* Whiteside *cough* |
Overrated like Deandre Jordan was. |
Miami is 4th in opponent's PPG. They have no defenders in either guard spot & luol deng is oft on injured. Whiteside anchors that defense. |
And Hibbert anchored Indiana's defense without hill and George and Stephenson. but we see how he looks away vogels scheme. Spo Is a brilliant and underrated defensive coach and whiteside benefits from his scheme as well.
Saw enough of whiteside including his game vs us to givNEme some pause as to just how much is him. And how much is the scheme. He wouldn't single handedly be the answer like some people think. He'd need the proper scheme and setup and improved discipline.
I wouldn't NOT be excited to land him. But im falling back on just how much credit I'd heap on him for Miami
That's why I said it's similar to the Deandre Jordan situation. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | ahaider wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | 22 wrote: | I think Hoiberg should have gone to a younger team w/o an identity yet i.e. us.
Hard to change the culture with all those vets in Chi |
yeah except Chicago was a top 4 defensive team and the number 2 team in the east.
INJURIES took this Bulls team out, it wasn't a "hoiberg disaster" like the media keeps trying to spin it. Bulls were sitting pretty till Noah got hurt and then subsequently they really were hurt when Butler went down.
Till the injuries hit the Bulls were the number 2 team in the East and a top 5 defensive team.
But the media would have you forget that Hoiberg had that team playing grat basketball and try to make you think they'd been bad all year and not that injuries have cost the team mor than anything Hoiberg has done.
Selective memory of the media at best, cause they want to sell a different story.
| 2019 wrote: |
*cough cough* Whiteside *cough* |
Overrated like Deandre Jordan was. |
Miami is 4th in opponent's PPG. They have no defenders in either guard spot & luol deng is oft on injured. Whiteside anchors that defense. |
And Hibbert anchored Indiana's defense without hill and George and Stephenson. but we see how he looks away vogels scheme. Spo Is a brilliant and underrated defensive coach and whiteside benefits from his scheme as well.
Saw enough of whiteside including his game vs us to givNEme some pause as to just how much is him. And how much is the scheme. He wouldn't single handedly be the answer like some people think. He'd need the proper scheme and setup and improved discipline.
I wouldn't NOT be excited to land him. But im falling back on just how much credit I'd heap on him for Miami
That's why I said it's similar to the Deandre Jordan situation. |
"Pause"? He was incredible in that game.
And unlike Jordan, Whiteside's rim protection numbers are great. |
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Worthy42
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Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 19952
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | ahaider wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | 22 wrote: | I think Hoiberg should have gone to a younger team w/o an identity yet i.e. us.
Hard to change the culture with all those vets in Chi |
yeah except Chicago was a top 4 defensive team and the number 2 team in the east.
INJURIES took this Bulls team out, it wasn't a "hoiberg disaster" like the media keeps trying to spin it. Bulls were sitting pretty till Noah got hurt and then subsequently they really were hurt when Butler went down.
Till the injuries hit the Bulls were the number 2 team in the East and a top 5 defensive team.
But the media would have you forget that Hoiberg had that team playing grat basketball and try to make you think they'd been bad all year and not that injuries have cost the team mor than anything Hoiberg has done.
Selective memory of the media at best, cause they want to sell a different story.
| 2019 wrote: |
*cough cough* Whiteside *cough* |
Overrated like Deandre Jordan was. |
Miami is 4th in opponent's PPG. They have no defenders in either guard spot & luol deng is oft on injured. Whiteside anchors that defense. |
And Hibbert anchored Indiana's defense without hill and George and Stephenson. but we see how he looks away vogels scheme. Spo Is a brilliant and underrated defensive coach and whiteside benefits from his scheme as well.
Saw enough of whiteside including his game vs us to givNEme some pause as to just how much is him. And how much is the scheme. He wouldn't single handedly be the answer like some people think. He'd need the proper scheme and setup and improved discipline.
I wouldn't NOT be excited to land him. But im falling back on just how much credit I'd heap on him for Miami
That's why I said it's similar to the Deandre Jordan situation. |
"Pause"? He was incredible in that game.
And unlike Jordan, Whiteside's rim protection numbers are great. |
Those were the most empty 'dominating' stats I've seen from a so-called potential elite player... |
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CamReddish
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2015
Posts: 8036
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | ahaider wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | 22 wrote: | I think Hoiberg should have gone to a younger team w/o an identity yet i.e. us.
Hard to change the culture with all those vets in Chi |
yeah except Chicago was a top 4 defensive team and the number 2 team in the east.
INJURIES took this Bulls team out, it wasn't a "hoiberg disaster" like the media keeps trying to spin it. Bulls were sitting pretty till Noah got hurt and then subsequently they really were hurt when Butler went down.
Till the injuries hit the Bulls were the number 2 team in the East and a top 5 defensive team.
But the media would have you forget that Hoiberg had that team playing grat basketball and try to make you think they'd been bad all year and not that injuries have cost the team mor than anything Hoiberg has done.
Selective memory of the media at best, cause they want to sell a different story.
| 2019 wrote: |
*cough cough* Whiteside *cough* |
Overrated like Deandre Jordan was. |
Miami is 4th in opponent's PPG. They have no defenders in either guard spot & luol deng is oft on injured. Whiteside anchors that defense. |
And Hibbert anchored Indiana's defense without hill and George and Stephenson. but we see how he looks away vogels scheme. Spo Is a brilliant and underrated defensive coach and whiteside benefits from his scheme as well.
Saw enough of whiteside including his game vs us to givNEme some pause as to just how much is him. And how much is the scheme. He wouldn't single handedly be the answer like some people think. He'd need the proper scheme and setup and improved discipline.
I wouldn't NOT be excited to land him. But im falling back on just how much credit I'd heap on him for Miami
That's why I said it's similar to the Deandre Jordan situation. |
Umm.... Hibbert has been washed up for a while, even when he was in Vogals system the last year and a half in Indiana |
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MJST
Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26722
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Russell1 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | ahaider wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | 22 wrote: | I think Hoiberg should have gone to a younger team w/o an identity yet i.e. us.
Hard to change the culture with all those vets in Chi |
yeah except Chicago was a top 4 defensive team and the number 2 team in the east.
INJURIES took this Bulls team out, it wasn't a "hoiberg disaster" like the media keeps trying to spin it. Bulls were sitting pretty till Noah got hurt and then subsequently they really were hurt when Butler went down.
Till the injuries hit the Bulls were the number 2 team in the East and a top 5 defensive team.
But the media would have you forget that Hoiberg had that team playing grat basketball and try to make you think they'd been bad all year and not that injuries have cost the team mor than anything Hoiberg has done.
Selective memory of the media at best, cause they want to sell a different story.
| 2019 wrote: |
*cough cough* Whiteside *cough* |
Overrated like Deandre Jordan was. |
Miami is 4th in opponent's PPG. They have no defenders in either guard spot & luol deng is oft on injured. Whiteside anchors that defense. |
And Hibbert anchored Indiana's defense without hill and George and Stephenson. but we see how he looks away vogels scheme. Spo Is a brilliant and underrated defensive coach and whiteside benefits from his scheme as well.
Saw enough of whiteside including his game vs us to givNEme some pause as to just how much is him. And how much is the scheme. He wouldn't single handedly be the answer like some people think. He'd need the proper scheme and setup and improved discipline.
I wouldn't NOT be excited to land him. But im falling back on just how much credit I'd heap on him for Miami
That's why I said it's similar to the Deandre Jordan situation. |
Umm.... Hibbert has been washed up for a while, even when he was in Vogals system the last year and a half in Indiana |
And yet they were a top 7 defensive team with Hibbert anchoring their defense and no George, Hill or Stephenson.
But put Hibbert in this scheme with a coach that has no clue how to scheme defensively and use a big like Hibbert's skills or strengths and how to lead/trap/ice properly and you wind up still a 29th in defense team. |
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CamReddish
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2015
Posts: 8036
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| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:42 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | Russell1 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | ahaider wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | 22 wrote: | I think Hoiberg should have gone to a younger team w/o an identity yet i.e. us.
Hard to change the culture with all those vets in Chi |
yeah except Chicago was a top 4 defensive team and the number 2 team in the east.
INJURIES took this Bulls team out, it wasn't a "hoiberg disaster" like the media keeps trying to spin it. Bulls were sitting pretty till Noah got hurt and then subsequently they really were hurt when Butler went down.
Till the injuries hit the Bulls were the number 2 team in the East and a top 5 defensive team.
But the media would have you forget that Hoiberg had that team playing grat basketball and try to make you think they'd been bad all year and not that injuries have cost the team mor than anything Hoiberg has done.
Selective memory of the media at best, cause they want to sell a different story.
| 2019 wrote: |
*cough cough* Whiteside *cough* |
Overrated like Deandre Jordan was. |
Miami is 4th in opponent's PPG. They have no defenders in either guard spot & luol deng is oft on injured. Whiteside anchors that defense. |
And Hibbert anchored Indiana's defense without hill and George and Stephenson. but we see how he looks away vogels scheme. Spo Is a brilliant and underrated defensive coach and whiteside benefits from his scheme as well.
Saw enough of whiteside including his game vs us to givNEme some pause as to just how much is him. And how much is the scheme. He wouldn't single handedly be the answer like some people think. He'd need the proper scheme and setup and improved discipline.
I wouldn't NOT be excited to land him. But im falling back on just how much credit I'd heap on him for Miami
That's why I said it's similar to the Deandre Jordan situation. |
Umm.... Hibbert has been washed up for a while, even when he was in Vogals system the last year and a half in Indiana |
And yet they were a top 7 defensive team with Hibbert anchoring their defense and no George, Hill or Stephenson.
But put Hibbert in this scheme with a coach that has no clue how to scheme defensively and use a big like Hibbert's skills or strengths and how to lead/trap/ice properly and you wind up still a 29th in defense team. |
But even Indiana wasn't all about Hibbert, they had better defenders all around, Hibbert had a back up that was also a rim protector in Mahinmi and was playing better defense than Hibbert.
Hibbert is ok in the right system but he isn't a DJ oe Whiteside in terms of mobility and being able to switch onto other guys at times. Hibbert also doesn't provide the weak side help those guys can provide, Hibbert also doesn't provide the rebounding those guys can provide, so no Hibbert isn't comparable. |
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44TheLogo
Star Player
Joined: 21 Feb 2009
Posts: 6364
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| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:08 am Post subject: |
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| lmao if you truly believe that 4 out 1 in with Ed Davis or Tarik Black as the anchor would succeed in the NBA all I can do is laugh |
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CamReddish
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2015
Posts: 8036
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| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:29 am Post subject: |
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| 44TheLogo wrote: | | lmao if you truly believe that 4 out 1 in with Ed Davis or Tarik Black as the anchor would succeed in the NBA all I can do is laugh |
Depends who the other 4 players. Would is suceed with a lineup of Curry, Klay, Barnes, Dray Green, and Ed Davis?
Yes it would
Would it succeed with Parker, Green, Lenord, Aldridge, and Ed Davis?
Yes it would
Would it succeed with Westbrook, Robertson, Durant, Ibaka, and Ed Davis?
Yes it would
Would it succeed with Kyrie, JR Smith, Lebron, Love, and Ed Davis?
Yes it would |
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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| 44TheLogo wrote: | | lmao if you truly believe that 4 out 1 in with Ed Davis or Tarik Black as the anchor would succeed in the NBA all I can do is laugh |
Don't start twisting my words. You said a player who can do all of those things is elite. I mentioned a player who can and isn't elite at all. Obviously, if Tarik Black is our starting center than we are in big trouble. There are tons of bigs who can fit in the system.
Mozgov
Drummond
Whiteside
Zeller
Plumlee
Ezeli
After looking up a list of FA bigs, these are 6 of varying talent levels that can all fit the role that we would be looking for in that system. |
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yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| Russell1 wrote: | | 44TheLogo wrote: | | lmao if you truly believe that 4 out 1 in with Ed Davis or Tarik Black as the anchor would succeed in the NBA all I can do is laugh |
Depends who the other 4 players. Would is suceed with a lineup of Curry, Klay, Barnes, Dray Green, and Ed Davis?
Yes it would
Would it succeed with Parker, Green, Lenord, Aldridge, and Ed Davis?
Yes it would
Would it succeed with Westbrook, Robertson, Durant, Ibaka, and Ed Davis?
Yes it would
Would it succeed with Kyrie, JR Smith, Lebron, Love, and Ed Davis?
Yes it would |
But we have DLO/JC/Randle...
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144547
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| 44TheLogo wrote: | | lmao if you truly believe that 4 out 1 in with Ed Davis or Tarik Black as the anchor would succeed in the NBA all I can do is laugh |
4 out 1 in is an offensive system, so I have no idea what anchoring would have to do with it. It can be run with a guard as the 1 in, or a SF, or PF.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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CamReddish
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2015
Posts: 8036
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| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Russell1 wrote: | | 44TheLogo wrote: | | lmao if you truly believe that 4 out 1 in with Ed Davis or Tarik Black as the anchor would succeed in the NBA all I can do is laugh |
Depends who the other 4 players. Would is suceed with a lineup of Curry, Klay, Barnes, Dray Green, and Ed Davis?
Yes it would
Would it succeed with Parker, Green, Lenord, Aldridge, and Ed Davis?
Yes it would
Would it succeed with Westbrook, Robertson, Durant, Ibaka, and Ed Davis?
Yes it would
Would it succeed with Kyrie, JR Smith, Lebron, Love, and Ed Davis?
Yes it would |
But we have DLO/JC/Randle... |
I know, but the statement wasn't about who the Lakers have, he said it couldn't have success in the NBA. |
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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:37 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | 44TheLogo wrote: | | lmao if you truly believe that 4 out 1 in with Ed Davis or Tarik Black as the anchor would succeed in the NBA all I can do is laugh |
4 out 1 in is an offensive system, so I have no idea what anchoring would have to do with it. It can be run with a guard as the 1 in, or a SF, or PF. |
That is incorrect. Maybe a big athletic PF but that's it. |
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