Lebron is the leader of the Lakers. If he plays hard, the Lakers play hard. If he is in "coast-mode", then guess what...
You know what we really need, and I can't believe I'm actually saying this...We need Russell Westbrook, of all people, to take over leadership of this Lakers team. I know that sounds absurd, but think about it.
RW is younger, and still in his prime. He works hard every game. And he's hungry to win his first Finals. Forget about the flaws in his game; it's his attitude that this Lakers team needs, not Lebron's. And that's not a knock on Lebron. Lebron is old, broken down, and has won before. He can afford to coast if he wants. The problem is, he has undue influence on this entire Lakers franchise, especially the players. And when Lebron plays half-assed and disengaged, the entire team follows suit.
RW, for all his flaws, never plays half-assed.
So, my question is this, will Lebron be willing to let RW take over leadership of this team, or will he continue to lead the Lakers with mediocre regular season mindset?
you expect a 19th year player to play hard in a meaningless regular season? that expectation should be put on the 28 year old AD who is just flat out a lazy bum
the goal was for AD to take over but ...he never did
AD isn't a leader, but this has always been known. Also, as Magic once said, it's hard to lead from the Center position, unless you are flamboyant (Shaq), or purely dominant (Akeem the Dream).
RW is in the perfect position to take over leadership of this Lakers team. It's just a matter of whether or not LeEgo will allow that.
Where are all these coaching and new player ideas coming from?
There will be no new offensive system or coach added. They run the James system.
There will be no trades unless the new players know their role. In the James system.
Westbrook and/or Davis are not taking over leadership from James.
Kind of cute that some of you think there is any option but to continue down this “ all in for James” path they happily took when they signed him. We can only hope he finds a fountain of youth for another playoff run.
If not , the Retirement Tour begins early. With the focus being establishing James as the Career Pts leader instead of another Championship.
There’s a lot more nuance to the James system then just drive and kick out for 3 or sit in the post back your opponent down and fade away.
You saw Lebron just complement Tyrone Lue. This is because their offense had a lot of movement to create the opening for 3 point shooters. Back door cuts, horn motion, we don’t consistently practice these. Too often our offense denigrates into isolation basketball against a packed paint. This results in low quality shots with difficulty and very low likelihood of offensive rebounds.
When we have shooters, they don’t know very well how to position to get the rebound. It’s all about creating easy offensive shots by keeping the defense guessing. The more the defense guesses the easier it will be for us. The second half of Sacramento was a prime example of this. Defense started covering for RW drives - then he started kicking out and shooters were hitting - after that the defense didn’t no who to guard and sac’s defense ended up in no mans zone where they’re not able to get the board and their giving up space for shooting. That’s what we need. That’s what RW needs that’s what Lebron needs that’s what AD needs.
It stems from us having no two way good 3PT shooters who can both defend and hit from 3. It also stems from the fact that even if we had those guys are offense wouldn’t be as good as it should be because there is strong offensive mind guiding it. _________________ Author of James Harden and the Strip Club
"The key to good decision making is not knowledge. It is understanding. We are swimming in the former. We are desperately lacking in the latter." - Malcom Gladwell
you expect a 19th year player to play hard in a meaningless regular season? that expectation should be put on the 28 year old AD who is just flat out a lazy bum
the goal was for AD to take over but ...he never did
I know that a lot of you thought this. It was a good thought, but it was never going to happen. _________________ Internet Argument Resolved
We gave Klutch/Lebron too much power and you know they’re going to shift the blame to us. Rob as an agent has always capitulated to his clients and here he’s preparing to throw Vogel under the bus like Magic to cover the fact that he made poor decisions completing the roster. Funny thing is I didn’t mention Westbrook because he’s actually upward trending but the coaching staff needs augmentation not a firing. They need an outside voice because they really are hitting a wall now.
That's a fair assessment. It's likely to blow up in the face of Pelinka and Team Lebron, though. It isn't likely that any coach is going to be able to do much with this roster in mid-season. The people who trash Vogel will just be trashing the next coach in a month. If things turn out badly, Vogel and Team Lebron will have already burned their scapegoat. _________________ Internet Argument Resolved
you expect a 19th year player to play hard in a meaningless regular season? that expectation should be put on the 28 year old AD who is just flat out a lazy bum
the goal was for AD to take over but ...he never did
I know that a lot of you thought this. It was a good thought, but it was never going to happen.
u had no clue either, lets not act like you knew it all the way
you expect a 19th year player to play hard in a meaningless regular season? that expectation should be put on the 28 year old AD who is just flat out a lazy bum
the goal was for AD to take over but ...he never did
I know that a lot of you thought this. It was a good thought, but it was never going to happen.
u had no clue either, lets not act like you knew it all the way
Nope. I watched him in New Orleans and didn't wear rose-colored glasses when he was traded here. He wasn't a team leader in New Orleans, and he wasn't going to be a team leader here. He is not an alpha. I know that some of you wanted to believe otherwise. I'm not blaming you, but it was never realistic. _________________ Internet Argument Resolved
We gave Klutch/Lebron too much power and you know they’re going to shift the blame to us. Rob as an agent has always capitulated to his clients and here he’s preparing to throw Vogel under the bus like Magic to cover the fact that he made poor decisions completing the roster. Funny thing is I didn’t mention Westbrook because he’s actually upward trending but the coaching staff needs augmentation not a firing. They need an outside voice because they really are hitting a wall now.
That's a fair assessment. It's likely to blow up in the face of Pelinka and Team Lebron, though. It isn't likely that any coach is going to be able to do much with this roster in mid-season. The people who trash Vogel will just be trashing the next coach in a month. If things turn out badly, Vogel and Team Lebron will have already burned their scapegoat.
I don’t think Team Klutch wants to fire Vogel. I’m hoping they’d be open to hiring Terry Stotts as a consultant because they lack an offensive mind. I think that could help all parties while allowing each to save face.
Vogel is a strong defensive mind but he’s rigid in his approach as he keeps trying to fit square pegs in round holes to get the defense right. Why else would you start THT with Dwight when you know that would lead to any spacing? If there’s a common theme this year it’s that our big 3 do better with spacing. Even if there’s only 1, 2 or 3 of them there. It comes at a cost of defense which I imagine drives Vogel crazy but he can’t use the 2020 Lakers championship as his blueprint for this team. You have to have more than one way to win.
Just a lot of stubbornness by all parties. Hoping that calmer more self aware heads will prevail. _________________ Author of James Harden and the Strip Club
"The key to good decision making is not knowledge. It is understanding. We are swimming in the former. We are desperately lacking in the latter." - Malcom Gladwell
Last edited by ahaider on Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
you expect a 19th year player to play hard in a meaningless regular season? that expectation should be put on the 28 year old AD who is just flat out a lazy bum
the goal was for AD to take over but ...he never did
I know that a lot of you thought this. It was a good thought, but it was never going to happen.
u had no clue either, lets not act like you knew it all the way
Nope. I watched him in New Orleans and didn't wear rose-colored glasses when he was traded here. He wasn't a team leader in New Orleans, and he wasn't going to be a team leader here. He is not an alpha. I know that some of you wanted to believe otherwise. I'm not blaming you, but it was never realistic.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144475 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 7:19 pm Post subject:
hydrohead wrote:
If folks are thinking that any part of 360 is going to get fired up about games in Dec, then they are going to be disappointed. Given their age and/or fragility they are not going to lay out this early. even I call games before Christmas the unofficial preseason.
Getting fired up about games when you are 8 or more games behind in your division isn’t a winning formula. Golden State and Phoenix aren’t going to have prolonged losing streaks. The Lakers would also have to pass the Clippers. If that is the Laker mindset, they will need to pack their bags for the playoffs. If they make the playoffs. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144475 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 7:24 pm Post subject:
LGFan wrote:
troy wrote:
Lebron is the leader of the Lakers. If he plays hard, the Lakers play hard. If he is in "coast-mode", then guess what...
You know what we really need, and I can't believe I'm actually saying this...We need Russell Westbrook, of all people, to take over leadership of this Lakers team. I know that sounds absurd, but think about it.
RW is younger, and still in his prime. He works hard every game. And he's hungry to win his first Finals. Forget about the flaws in his game; it's his attitude that this Lakers team needs, not Lebron's. And that's not a knock on Lebron. Lebron is old, broken down, and has won before. He can afford to coast if he wants. The problem is, he has undue influence on this entire Lakers franchise, especially the players. And when Lebron plays half-assed and disengaged, the entire team follows suit.
RW, for all his flaws, never plays half-assed.
So, my question is this, will Lebron be willing to let RW take over leadership of this team, or will he continue to lead the Lakers with mediocre regular season mindset?
you expect a 19th year player to play hard in a meaningless regular season? that expectation should be put on the 28 year old AD who is just flat out a lazy bum
the goal was for AD to take over but ...he never did
If AD taking over was someone’s plan, then that person obviously never watched AD’s career. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
We gave Klutch/Lebron too much power and you know they’re going to shift the blame to us. Rob as an agent has always capitulated to his clients and here he’s preparing to throw Vogel under the bus like Magic to cover the fact that he made poor decisions completing the roster. Funny thing is I didn’t mention Westbrook because he’s actually upward trending but the coaching staff needs augmentation not a firing. They need an outside voice because they really are hitting a wall now.
That's a fair assessment. It's likely to blow up in the face of Pelinka and Team Lebron, though. It isn't likely that any coach is going to be able to do much with this roster in mid-season. The people who trash Vogel will just be trashing the next coach in a month. If things turn out badly, Vogel and Team Lebron will have already burned their scapegoat.
I don’t think Team Klutch wants to fire Vogel. I’m hoping they’d be open to hiring Terry Stotts as a consultant because they lack an offensive mind. I think that could help all parties while allowing each to save face.
Vogel is a strong defensive mind but he’s rigid in his approach as he keeps trying to fit square pegs in round holes to get the defense right. Why else would you start THT with Dwight when you know that would lead to any spacing? If there’s a common theme this year it’s that our big 3 do better with spacing. Even if there’s only 1, 2 or 3 of them there. It comes at a cost of defense which I imagine drives Vogel crazy but he can’t use the 2020 Lakers championship as his blueprint for this team. You have to have more than one way to win.
Just a lot of stubbornness by all parties. Hoping that calmer more self aware heads will prevail.
If we don't get this turned around by Christmas, I expect that Vogel will be the first person under the bus.
As for square pegs and round holes, Vogel is struggling to find any combination that will work consistently. You may be right about spacing on offense, but our big three haven't been good enough together to overcome a lack of defense.
In fact, that's the core problem: Unless and until Lebron, Davis, and Westbrook figure out how to play together effectively, they will not generate enough offense to balance out all of the defense that we lost last off-season. During the off-season, there were people who dreamed of us becoming an offensive juggernaut. It just hasn't happened. We're 23rd in ORtg. Some people will blame that on Vogel, and there's a decent chance that it will get him fired. Yet there is also a good chance that we'll look back on this and decide that the pieces just didn't fit and that no coach was ever going to make it work.
I'm not throwing in the towel on the season. The big three may find a way to make it work. But last night illustrated the problems we're experiencing. Lebron took a lot of shots and Westbrook didn't shoot or score much at all. 1 + 1 = 1.5. That won't cut it. _________________ Internet Argument Resolved
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29375 Location: La La Land
Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 4:39 pm Post subject:
Lebron believes he's yet to get a rhythm this season. He's our best player, and its true he hasn't played more than 3 games in a row yet.
So all we can do is take him by his word. And see what happens when we get our core together for a stretch. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
James, who said he didn't pick up a basketball from the time L.A.'s game against the Detroit Pistons ended on Sunday until shootaround on Friday, admitted his rhythm has been affected by the stop-and-go nature of his season. He played in the Lakers' first three games, then missed two games because of an ankle injury. Then he played in the Lakers' next three games after that, then missed the next eight games because of an abdominal strain. Then he played two games before missing a game because of the first suspension of his 19-year career. Then he played three games before he missed the Kings game.
"Going into Sacramento, I was getting into the rhythm -- a really, really good rhythm -- like offensively, defensively," James said. "It's just been very frustrating either dealing with the groin or the abdomen, and then having to deal with the false positive that knocked me out a game, then knocked me off the floor and not being able to keep my rhythm. It's just ... it's been a very challenging year to start a fourth of the season for myself. But, only good things ahead."
not putting too much weight on this.. being affected by stop and go situation is something that affects mediocre players, not someone of Lebron's caliber. _________________ "Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it."
James, who said he didn't pick up a basketball from the time L.A.'s game against the Detroit Pistons ended on Sunday until shootaround on Friday, admitted his rhythm has been affected by the stop-and-go nature of his season. He played in the Lakers' first three games, then missed two games because of an ankle injury. Then he played in the Lakers' next three games after that, then missed the next eight games because of an abdominal strain. Then he played two games before missing a game because of the first suspension of his 19-year career. Then he played three games before he missed the Kings game.
"Going into Sacramento, I was getting into the rhythm -- a really, really good rhythm -- like offensively, defensively," James said. "It's just been very frustrating either dealing with the groin or the abdomen, and then having to deal with the false positive that knocked me out a game, then knocked me off the floor and not being able to keep my rhythm. It's just ... it's been a very challenging year to start a fourth of the season for myself. But, only good things ahead."
not putting too much weight on this.. being affected by stop and go situation is something that affects mediocre players, not someone of Lebron's caliber.
Yea maybe if Lebron was in his prime... But with his age and mileage it will start affecting you. Lebron is also known to be a slow starter and usually takes a couple weeks to get in game shape and rhythm. He has barely played since preseason.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144475 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 8:57 pm Post subject:
kikanga wrote:
Lebron believes he's yet to get a rhythm this season. He's our best player, and its true he hasn't played more than 3 games in a row yet.
So all we can do is take him by his word. And see what happens when we get our core together for a stretch.
That is all we can do, we have been through the winding down of a star’s career before. Lebron is going nowhere and we need to hope that he can stay relatively healthy the rest of the season. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Lebron is the leader of the Lakers. If he plays hard, the Lakers play hard. If he is in "coast-mode", then guess what...
You know what we really need, and I can't believe I'm actually saying this...We need Russell Westbrook, of all people, to take over leadership of this Lakers team. I know that sounds absurd, but think about it.
RW is younger, and still in his prime. He works hard every game. And he's hungry to win his first Finals. Forget about the flaws in his game; it's his attitude that this Lakers team needs, not Lebron's. And that's not a knock on Lebron. Lebron is old, broken down, and has won before. He can afford to coast if he wants. The problem is, he has undue influence on this entire Lakers franchise, especially the players. And when Lebron plays half-assed and disengaged, the entire team follows suit.
RW, for all his flaws, never plays half-assed.
So, my question is this, will Lebron be willing to let RW take over leadership of this team, or will he continue to lead the Lakers with mediocre regular season mindset?
you expect a 19th year player to play hard in a meaningless regular season? that expectation should be put on the 28 year old AD who is just flat out a lazy bum
the goal was for AD to take over but ...he never did
If AD taking over was someone’s plan, then that person obviously never watched AD’s career.
AD was sabotaged by lebron in the finals, after he & Rondo played on a higher level to get to the finals, while lebron still seemed to be "coasting". He doesn't like him very much, especially with how lebron handled last year's playoff series in the first round.
Lakers looked happier on the court and much more entertaining without him.
I don't understand why we can't have a system that allows Lebron to play 30ish minutes/game like Giannis has done his whole career.
Lebron could come out in spaced lineups, giving 100% over short stretches.
Lebron is the leader of the Lakers. If he plays hard, the Lakers play hard. If he is in "coast-mode", then guess what...
You know what we really need, and I can't believe I'm actually saying this...We need Russell Westbrook, of all people, to take over leadership of this Lakers team. I know that sounds absurd, but think about it.
RW is younger, and still in his prime. He works hard every game. And he's hungry to win his first Finals. Forget about the flaws in his game; it's his attitude that this Lakers team needs, not Lebron's. And that's not a knock on Lebron. Lebron is old, broken down, and has won before. He can afford to coast if he wants. The problem is, he has undue influence on this entire Lakers franchise, especially the players. And when Lebron plays half-assed and disengaged, the entire team follows suit.
RW, for all his flaws, never plays half-assed.
So, my question is this, will Lebron be willing to let RW take over leadership of this team, or will he continue to lead the Lakers with mediocre regular season mindset?
you expect a 19th year player to play hard in a meaningless regular season? that expectation should be put on the 28 year old AD who is just flat out a lazy bum
the goal was for AD to take over but ...he never did
If AD taking over was someone’s plan, then that person obviously never watched AD’s career.
AD was sabotaged by lebron in the finals, after he & Rondo played on a higher level to get to the finals, while lebron still seemed to be "coasting". He doesn't like him very much, especially with how lebron handled last year's playoff series in the first round.
Lakers looked happier on the court and much more entertaining without him.
As Lebron's battle with age continues, cue the Lebron hating performance art by people who hilariously all seem to have Kobe profile pictures.
Joined: 27 May 2010 Posts: 49282 Location: LA to the Bay
Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:56 am Post subject:
dries wrote:
AD was sabotaged by lebron in the finals, after he & Rondo played on a higher level to get to the finals, while lebron still seemed to be "coasting". He doesn't like him very much, especially with how lebron handled last year's playoff series in the first round.
Lakers looked happier on the court and much more entertaining without him.
AD was sabotaged by lebron in the finals, after he & Rondo played on a higher level to get to the finals, while lebron still seemed to be "coasting". He doesn't like him very much, especially with how lebron handled last year's playoff series in the first round.
Lakers looked happier on the court and much more entertaining without him.
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