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Kobe_Is_King13
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Joined: 16 Jul 2018
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 Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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Kuzma is 25, has averaged 16 ppg for his short career, is coming off an NBA Championship, accepted a bench role after being a productive starter since he came in the league and has sacrificed his personal numbers for the sake of the team.
Not only does he deserve a decent pay day, if I'm him I wouldn't settle for less. He's done just about everything asked of him. He didn't have a great year, but between a new role, injuries to start the year, new teammates to incorporate and the COVID break, he didn't have a fair shot.
He's going to want around 9-10 annually and he's going to get it from someone. Why not pay him and use him as a trade chip? With LeBron set to sit out the start of the season, I'd wager Kuz get plenty of opportunities to shine which will boost his stock. If he plays well enough, then using him and a few other pieces for a 3rd star becomes that much more feasible. |
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Lakerwayne
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Joined: 14 Sep 2020
Posts: 68
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| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Kobe_Is_King13 wrote: | Kuzma is 25, has averaged 16 ppg for his short career, is coming off an NBA Championship, accepted a bench role after being a productive starter since he came in the league and has sacrificed his personal numbers for the sake of the team.
Not only does he deserve a decent pay day, if I'm him I wouldn't settle for less. He's done just about everything asked of him. He didn't have a great year, but between a new role, injuries to start the year, new teammates to incorporate and the COVID break, he didn't have a fair shot.
He's going to want around 9-10 annually and he's going to get it from someone. Why not pay him and use him as a trade chip? With LeBron set to sit out the start of the season, I'd wager Kuz get plenty of opportunities to shine which will boost his stock. If he plays well enough, then using him and a few other pieces for a 3rd star becomes that much more feasible. |
This! |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144496
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:14 am Post subject: |
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| Kobe_Is_King13 wrote: | Kuzma is 25, has averaged 16 ppg for his short career, is coming off an NBA Championship, accepted a bench role after being a productive starter since he came in the league and has sacrificed his personal numbers for the sake of the team.
Not only does he deserve a decent pay day, if I'm him I wouldn't settle for less. He's done just about everything asked of him. He didn't have a great year, but between a new role, injuries to start the year, new teammates to incorporate and the COVID break, he didn't have a fair shot.
He's going to want around 9-10 annually and he's going to get it from someone. Why not pay him and use him as a trade chip? With LeBron set to sit out the start of the season, I'd wager Kuz get plenty of opportunities to shine which will boost his stock. If he plays well enough, then using him and a few other pieces for a 3rd star becomes that much more feasible. |
Wait, Lebron is going to sit out the start of the season? News to me. And I think that we have a huge difference about the meaning of the term “productive”.
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waterman40
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:40 am Post subject: |
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^^ Well I'd imagine 'sitting out" is Lebron missing some back to back games and more managed minutes the first month of the season. "Productive" defined as a guy not afraid to shoot, and in rhythm, gets us 15-20 points a night when playing significant minutes and green-lighted to score more often.
Not saying those are great definitions when you are talking about someone replacing Lebron, but being that Green shoots at a ten foot basket like a third grader, Kuzma is much more "productive."
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hype
Star Player
Joined: 19 Nov 2007
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Location: Lake Nacimiento
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| waterman40 wrote: | ^^ Well I'd imagine 'sitting out" is Lebron missing some back to back games and more managed minutes the first month of the season. "Productive" defined as a guy not afraid to shoot, and in rhythm, gets us 15-20 points a night when playing significant minutes and green-lighted to score more often.
Not saying those are great definitions when you are talking about someone replacing Lebron, but being that Green shoots at a ten foot basket like a third grader, Kuzma is much more "productive." |
To be fair I have no idea the exact numbers but I recall Kuz having good/great games whenever he was put in the starting lineup with Bron or AD out during the regular season. When he is given that green light and has a chance to get into rhythm he usually hits that 20+ point mark pretty consistently. Obviously he still needs to learn how to fully take advantage when both guys are playing and he's not starting but he's a great guy to have to fill in on those missing nights this season which i'm sure will be a decent amount between Bron/AD throughout the season.
There's no doubt it will raise his stock imo. Not to any crazy heights obviously but I think the potential of getting a better fitting role player sometime during the season could happen if Kuz continues to struggle offensively with both guys playing like he has thus far.
On the other hand, I also wouldn't be shocked to see him look much more effective this season which would pretty much kill any trade talk but i'm not counting on that until I actually see it for a decent stretch but he shut me tf up last season with his massively improved defense (for the most part) so i'm curious to see both him and THT this upcoming season. |
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Lakerwayne
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Joined: 14 Sep 2020
Posts: 68
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya I’m not against trading players to improve but if the team stands spat for the most part I would like to see Kuz and Caruso as well as THT with expanded roles next season as the teams homegrown young guys that are still improving, especially as the vets including lebron will need regular season rest and those younger guys probably want to play more and do more |
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CRoost
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Joined: 21 Mar 2017
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| hype wrote: | | waterman40 wrote: | ^^ Well I'd imagine 'sitting out" is Lebron missing some back to back games and more managed minutes the first month of the season. "Productive" defined as a guy not afraid to shoot, and in rhythm, gets us 15-20 points a night when playing significant minutes and green-lighted to score more often.
Not saying those are great definitions when you are talking about someone replacing Lebron, but being that Green shoots at a ten foot basket like a third grader, Kuzma is much more "productive." |
To be fair I have no idea the exact numbers but I recall Kuz having good/great games whenever he was put in the starting lineup with Bron or AD out during the regular season. When he is given that green light and has a chance to get into rhythm he usually hits that 20+ point mark pretty consistently. Obviously he still needs to learn how to fully take advantage when both guys are playing and he's not starting but he's a great guy to have to fill in on those missing nights this season which i'm sure will be a decent amount between Bron/AD throughout the season.
There's no doubt it will raise his stock imo. Not to any crazy heights obviously but I think the potential of getting a better fitting role player sometime during the season could happen if Kuz continues to struggle offensively with both guys playing like he has thus far.
On the other hand, I also wouldn't be shocked to see him look much more effective this season which would pretty much kill any trade talk but i'm not counting on that until I actually see it for a decent stretch but he shut me tf up last season with his massively improved defense (for the most part) so i'm curious to see both him and THT this upcoming season. |
Kuz average like 21 ppg on good efficiency to boot when he was starting and our record was 7-2. He’s certainly capable of playing that 3rd option. Vogel should start him at 2 and intermittently move him to 3 and 4 whenever Lebron or AD sits. The most encouraging progress though was that defensive leap he made during the bubble.
If we want to inflate his value, get him to start and give himself a better chance to get into rhythm as he is more of a volume scorer. Then time to sell him high. This is his 4th season where most players hit their stride so I expect Kuz to put it together. |
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CRoost
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Joined: 21 Mar 2017
Posts: 4818
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakerwayne wrote: | | Ya I’m not against trading players to improve but if the team stands spat for the most part I would like to see Kuz and Caruso as well as THT with expanded roles next season as the teams homegrown young guys that are still improving, especially as the vets including lebron will need regular season rest and those younger guys probably want to play more and do more |
I would rather have our team does it that way quite honestly. We already found that formula and we are clearly head and shoulders above everyone. I understand if it’s a no brainer but for us to need to make change is just not pragmatic. |
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Lakerwayne
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Joined: 14 Sep 2020
Posts: 68
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| CRoost wrote: | | Lakerwayne wrote: | | Ya I’m not against trading players to improve but if the team stands spat for the most part I would like to see Kuz and Caruso as well as THT with expanded roles next season as the teams homegrown young guys that are still improving, especially as the vets including lebron will need regular season rest and those younger guys probably want to play more and do more |
I would rather have our team does it that way quite honestly. We already found that formula and we are clearly head and shoulders above everyone. I understand if it’s a no brainer but for us to need to make change is just not pragmatic. |
Ya it’s also good from a cultural standpoint and a long term view. So that the team is not just signing vet free agents and trading all their picks and younger guys for win now players just to go all out for a short championship window. But instead they are keeping a mix of older vets, guys in their primes, and developing young players that can step into larger roles as they grow into themselves and the older players step back. Plus the team grows together builds on chemistry etc. It’s more sustainable over the long term being consistently competitive when u are building through trades and free agency but also developing young talent through the draft or g league or whatever rather than having boom and bust periods like some past laker teams have done where they just make win now moves or draft for specific fit instead of bpa until it all collapses and we suck again.
Plus the young guys will be dedicated knowing that their time is coming instead of just assuming they are trade fodder if they play well. Basically how can we win now without sacrificing the future the culture of the team and the winning invested environment that has been cultivated with this group. The vet mercernary route is an option especially in the short term but I’m not sure it’s the best option especially with some younger talent still on this team including Anthony Davis himself, so this championship window is longer than lebrons window as a superstar. Let’s win a some ships with ad still here and lebron as a 40 something year old sixth man or something and some younger guys gradually taking the reigns you know? It’s possible! Sort of like a Spurs model in laker land which should scare the whole league. Our scouting drafting and developing is top notch already and has been for some time actually |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144496
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| CRoost wrote: | | Lakerwayne wrote: | | Ya I’m not against trading players to improve but if the team stands spat for the most part I would like to see Kuz and Caruso as well as THT with expanded roles next season as the teams homegrown young guys that are still improving, especially as the vets including lebron will need regular season rest and those younger guys probably want to play more and do more |
I would rather have our team does it that way quite honestly. We already found that formula and we are clearly head and shoulders above everyone. I understand if it’s a no brainer but for us to need to make change is just not pragmatic. |
They were clearly better in a bubble, not so much when there was a regular season. When teams voted about staying in the bubble many wanted out. I think that the upcoming season will be more like last November through April than like the bubble. Only with the reintroduction of the Warriors to the top teams. We missed perimeter defense and had no secondary initiator last season, those are still holes. That doesn’t mean you blow up the team but you still make those deals that help improvement. We were relatively healthy last season and hopefully that continues but 72 games in a little over 4 months with travel and 14 back to backs can be hard on an older team.
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hype
Star Player
Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 4386
Location: Lake Nacimiento
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | CRoost wrote: | | Lakerwayne wrote: | | Ya I’m not against trading players to improve but if the team stands spat for the most part I would like to see Kuz and Caruso as well as THT with expanded roles next season as the teams homegrown young guys that are still improving, especially as the vets including lebron will need regular season rest and those younger guys probably want to play more and do more |
I would rather have our team does it that way quite honestly. We already found that formula and we are clearly head and shoulders above everyone. I understand if it’s a no brainer but for us to need to make change is just not pragmatic. |
They were clearly better in a bubble, not so much when there was a regular season. When teams voted about staying in the bubble many wanted out. I think that the upcoming season will be more like last November through April than like the bubble. Only with the reintroduction of the Warriors to the top teams. We missed perimeter defense and had no secondary initiator last season, those are still holes. That doesn’t mean you blow up the team but you still make those deals that help improvement. We were relatively healthy last season and hopefully that continues but 72 games in a little over 4 months with travel and 14 back to backs can be hard on an older team. |
IDK, that final stretch of games before the stoppage was a pretty huge statement and made it clear the Lakers were the best team in that moment imo.
Not sure about the perimeter defense remark as we faced elite perimeter players every round and did a pretty incredible job throughout the entire Playoffs. If we get Avery back i'm not overly concerned about perimeter defense. I do agree there's still room for improvement and you take the chance to do so if it presents itself obviously.
The secondary initiator is a big concern though as Playoff Rondo outside of some games here and there def. isn't it during the long regular season especially when Lebron sits games out.
I have a feeling this off season is going to make things real interesting so i'm trying not to judge the current roster too much because there's going to be some changes that alter most current thoughts quite a bit I think. |
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CRoost
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Joined: 21 Mar 2017
Posts: 4818
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | CRoost wrote: | | Lakerwayne wrote: | | Ya I’m not against trading players to improve but if the team stands spat for the most part I would like to see Kuz and Caruso as well as THT with expanded roles next season as the teams homegrown young guys that are still improving, especially as the vets including lebron will need regular season rest and those younger guys probably want to play more and do more |
I would rather have our team does it that way quite honestly. We already found that formula and we are clearly head and shoulders above everyone. I understand if it’s a no brainer but for us to need to make change is just not pragmatic. |
They were clearly better in a bubble, not so much when there was a regular season. When teams voted about staying in the bubble many wanted out. I think that the upcoming season will be more like last November through April than like the bubble. Only with the reintroduction of the Warriors to the top teams. We missed perimeter defense and had no secondary initiator last season, those are still holes. That doesn’t mean you blow up the team but you still make those deals that help improvement. We were relatively healthy last season and hopefully that continues but 72 games in a little over 4 months with travel and 14 back to backs can be hard on an older team. |
Making deals for regular season is not prudent either. I have a feeling that both Caruso and Kuz will outplay whoever we thought an upgrade via MLE or BAE. Kuz already proved that in the bubble as that wing defender that we are longing for. Caruso is already showing his vision despite his inexperience . He understand how play develop, he just misread player tendencies. THT might get into rotation too. |
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where24happens
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Joined: 08 May 2009
Posts: 3410
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:02 am Post subject: |
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| I don’t care if we trade him this season or let him walk after the season, as long as we don’t waste cap space on him. He’s a terrible fit on his team and he is basically a replacement level player. He’s definitely not worth what he’ll be asking |
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pjiddy
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Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 29124
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:09 am Post subject: |
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If Staples isn't allowing fans, why is it so important Lebron not miss games?
Have him miss home games. No paying fan is screwed out of money. Easy. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:33 am Post subject: |
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There is no urgency to extend Kuzma.
The Lakers have his bird rights, and a team that traded for Kuz, would also have his bird rights via trade. So if Kuz went to another team, his bird rights go with him, and that team retains the right to match offers in FA 2021.
Now an argument is if you can get Kuz on a bargain, why not then get him locked up. That is something different.
All I am saying is that the Lakers have no urgency to make a decision on Kuzma. The can even let him know their intention is most likely to pursue a FA in 2021, then re-sign Kuz after signing a FA using Kuz's bird rights. There's a lot of bigger fish to fry than giving Kuz an extension.
The other thing, it would also motivate Kuz to go out there and earn more future $$$ by having a better 4th season than he did 3rd season in the league. |
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Nash Vegas
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GrimjowwLA
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Joined: 06 Dec 2012
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Wow he almost got traded with DG for Jrue Holiday but they declined 😆 |
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AD23
Star Player
Joined: 15 Jul 2019
Posts: 3069
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | There is no urgency to extend Kuzma.
The Lakers have his bird rights, and a team that traded for Kuz, would also have his bird rights via trade. So if Kuz went to another team, his bird rights go with him, and that team retains the right to match offers in FA 2021.
Now an argument is if you can get Kuz on a bargain, why not then get him locked up. That is something different.
All I am saying is that the Lakers have no urgency to make a decision on Kuzma. The can even let him know their intention is most likely to pursue a FA in 2021, then re-sign Kuz after signing a FA using Kuz's bird rights. There's a lot of bigger fish to fry than giving Kuz an extension.
The other thing, it would also motivate Kuz to go out there and earn more future $$$ by having a better 4th season than he did 3rd season in the league. |
All correct. If the Lakers keep Kuz then the difficult decision is to extend him at the end of his contract and out pay an interested party. |
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LakerSanity
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Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 33474
Location: Long Beach, California
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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I really wonder if he was just told he is being traded.
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governator
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: |
I really wonder if he was just told he is being traded. |
Wonder who’s the ‘significant upgrade’ |
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LastStand 2.0
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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Doubtful he was traded
Sounds more like fans were giving him offseason hell while all these trades were happening |
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epic_
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2020
Posts: 11310
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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Hang in there Kuz.
I think he deactivated because he just realized he had 5 ps4s to give away and not ps5s.
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BandwagonLBJhopper
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Joined: 07 Feb 2020
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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Kuzma is important - his length and athleticism is really vital for us defensively given our lack of wings with size. He also works hard and has heart, that's valuable to me.
I hope we keep him and he comes out balling in camp. We aren't going to get equal value for him anyways with his contract and teams will low ball based off his playoff performance. |
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dont_be_a_wuss
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Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Posts: 21560
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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| I was listening to some podcasts from earlier in the day and Kuzma was being criticized for tweeting too much and not being in the gym enough, so it could be related to that. |
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hype
Star Player
Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 4386
Location: Lake Nacimiento
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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| BandwagonLBJhopper wrote: | Kuzma is important - his length and athleticism is really vital for us defensively given our lack of wings with size. He also works hard and has heart, that's valuable to me.
I hope we keep him and he comes out balling in camp. We aren't going to get equal value for him anyways with his contract and teams will low ball based off his playoff performance. |
He's also a great fill in for when AD/Lebron take some games off and he has the green light to shoot like a higher option.
I have no doubt Kuz is currently putting in major work to improve on both ends so I wouldn't mind at all if we just keep him and figure out his future when the time comes. If a legit trade comes then i'm all for it but no reason to sell him low at all.
The twitter thing i'm sure is more based around the fact it's now "the cool thing to do" to talk about him on there. Kuz brings a bit of it on no doubt but it gets toxic and old i'm sure after awhile especially when you just won a Championship and you're trying to just enjoy life for a bit before the quick turnaround. |
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