| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
ocho
Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 53854
|
 Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | I haven’t seen it (and won’t) but this Richard Jewel movie has to be one of the most insidious releases of 2019, right? |
I am going to watch it in a theater and will report back. The second half of 15:17 to Paris and The Mule has me warming back up to old Clint. |
I’m lukewarm on his catalog and I don’t begrudge a conservative filmmaker (I’m a fan of a slew of conservative actors) but from a distance it appears his intention is to tee off on the two biggest villains in the eyes of conservatives: journalists and the government. I think we’ve got more than enough of that demonization in the water supply at the moment but even if you can set that aside, the fact that Eastwood is evidently so eager to smear journalists that he’s willing to invent a seriously ugly lie that the real life AJC reporter was willing to sleep with people for info is a bridge too far. It’s not enough to portray her as sensationalist or irresponsible. She has to be a whore. Hard pass on that (bleep).
_________________
14-5-3-12 |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
loslakersss
Franchise Player
Joined: 31 Dec 2008
Posts: 11853
Location: LA
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
| The Mule was good, haven't seen too many others by him and I was on the fence about this one. It seemed like a narrative on how nasty the media can be and how they will influence the public with no regard to what that influence will do to an individual. Interesting that he wanted to tell a true story about Richard Jewel yet in doing so he tells lies about the journalist. I think I'll have to pass on this too. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Baron Von Humongous
Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
How in the (bleep) do you not nominate John Wick 3 for best stunt ensemble?! It should win every stunt award for the next five years let alone get a single damn nomination over The Joker.
_________________
Under New Management |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ocho
Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 53854
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | How in the (bleep) do you not nominate John Wick 3 for best stunt ensemble?! It should win every stunt award for the next five years let alone get a single damn nomination over The Joker. |
The Wick movies are great and the stunt work and fight choreography are top notch.
It’s important to remember when Joker gets 7 Oscar nominations that it is a bad movie and all the people involved in it are bad.
_________________
14-5-3-12 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Baron Von Humongous
Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ocho wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | I haven’t seen it (and won’t) but this Richard Jewel movie has to be one of the most insidious releases of 2019, right? |
I am going to watch it in a theater and will report back. The second half of 15:17 to Paris and The Mule has me warming back up to old Clint. |
I’m lukewarm on his catalog and I don’t begrudge a conservative filmmaker (I’m a fan of a slew of conservative actors) but from a distance it appears his intention is to tee off on the two biggest villains in the eyes of conservatives: journalists and the government. I think we’ve got more than enough of that demonization in the water supply at the moment but even if you can set that aside, the fact that Eastwood is evidently so eager to smear journalists that he’s willing to invent a seriously ugly lie that the real life AJC reporter was willing to sleep with people for info is a bridge too far. It’s not enough to portray her as sensationalist or irresponsible. She has to be a whore. Hard pass on that (bleep). |
I don't know how much an 89-year-old guy making a movie about an event in 1996 is tapped into the current discourse, but having now waded this year through the dumb online debates about the insensitive portrayal of Sharon Tate's murderers, how Todd Phillips latest misanthrope-fest would lead to copycat crimes, and counting the number of Anna Paquin's lines, I've settled in on seeing the thing that offends critics in context before coming to a conclusion if the film seems interesting enough. If this movie had come out after American Sniper, it would've been a no, but The Mule bought some of my interest and good will.
I do expect it will be terrible even in context, though.
_________________
Under New Management |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Baron Von Humongous
Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ocho wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | How in the (bleep) do you not nominate John Wick 3 for best stunt ensemble?! It should win every stunt award for the next five years let alone get a single damn nomination over The Joker. |
The Wick movies are great and the stunt work and fight choreography are top notch.
It’s important to remember when Joker gets 7 Oscar nominations that it is a bad movie and all the people involved in it are bad. |
Little did anyone expect, but Joker is this year's Green Book.
_________________
Under New Management |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Baron Von Humongous
Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
If you have time, ocho, I'd love to read your take on the editing in Marriage Story.
_________________
Under New Management |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ocho
Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 53854
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | If you have time, ocho, I'd love to read your take on the editing in Marriage Story. |
It was cut very well. Baumbach’s films are always talky and ripe for the stage but I think he’s made visible strides as a director. I think it’s his most mature film visually.
_________________
14-5-3-12 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ocho
Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 53854
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | I haven’t seen it (and won’t) but this Richard Jewel movie has to be one of the most insidious releases of 2019, right? |
I am going to watch it in a theater and will report back. The second half of 15:17 to Paris and The Mule has me warming back up to old Clint. |
I’m lukewarm on his catalog and I don’t begrudge a conservative filmmaker (I’m a fan of a slew of conservative actors) but from a distance it appears his intention is to tee off on the two biggest villains in the eyes of conservatives: journalists and the government. I think we’ve got more than enough of that demonization in the water supply at the moment but even if you can set that aside, the fact that Eastwood is evidently so eager to smear journalists that he’s willing to invent a seriously ugly lie that the real life AJC reporter was willing to sleep with people for info is a bridge too far. It’s not enough to portray her as sensationalist or irresponsible. She has to be a whore. Hard pass on that (bleep). |
I don't know how much an 89-year-old guy making a movie about an event in 1996 is tapped into the current discourse, but having now waded this year through the dumb online debates about the insensitive portrayal of Sharon Tate's murderers, how Todd Phillips latest misanthrope-fest would lead to copycat crimes, and counting the number of Anna Paquin's lines, I've settled in on seeing the thing that offends critics in context before coming to a conclusion if the film seems interesting enough. If this movie had come out after American Sniper, it would've been a no, but The Mule bought some of my interest and good will.
I do expect it will be terrible even in context, though. |
I’d normally be willing to give Clint the benefit of the doubt if he hadn’t had a character list the film’s villains (the media and the government) in the trailer. It’s not like he’s trying to hide what he’s doing. The invented story about Kathy Scruggs prostituting herself for scoops reveals just how badly he wants to smear a journalist, not to mention being a gigantic hypocrite in the process. The other ‘controversies’ you named were bogus and lame from the jump. I don’t think this qualifies to be in that group. This is ugly stuff.
_________________
14-5-3-12 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ocho
Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 53854
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | How in the (bleep) do you not nominate John Wick 3 for best stunt ensemble?! It should win every stunt award for the next five years let alone get a single damn nomination over The Joker. |
The Wick movies are great and the stunt work and fight choreography are top notch.
It’s important to remember when Joker gets 7 Oscar nominations that it is a bad movie and all the people involved in it are bad. |
Little did anyone expect, but Joker is this year's Green Book. |
It’s especially funny to reward Scorsese for Dummies in a year where we have an actual Scorsese movie in contention.
_________________
14-5-3-12 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
adkindo
Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 40345
Location: Dirty South
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
| loslakersss wrote: | | The Mule was good, haven't seen too many others by him and I was on the fence about this one. It seemed like a narrative on how nasty the media can be and how they will influence the public with no regard to what that influence will do to an individual. Interesting that he wanted to tell a true story about Richard Jewel yet in doing so he tells lies about the journalist. I think I'll have to pass on this too. |
I am not sure what lies were told about a journalist.....I have not followed any reviews/news of the movie. That said, forget the politics, it is a story that does not need to be forgotten. We continue to make the same mistakes and destroy lives of undeserving regular people to this day. The journalist irresponsibility is often just a symptom of larger forces in modern news/media and issues in society itself. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
adkindo
Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 40345
Location: Dirty South
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Was the entire point of Once Upon a Time in Hollywood to provide a preferred outcome on the night Sharon Tate was murdered? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ocho
Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 53854
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | I am not sure what lies were told about a journalist |
| Quote: | At issue is the film’s portrayal of the late reporter Kathy Scruggs. She broke the story that security guard Jewell — at that point a hero for saving countless lives in the Centennial Olympic Park bombing at the 1996 Olympic Games in Atlanta — was in fact the FBI’s lead suspect in the case.
Scruggs, played by Olivia Wilde, is depicted as a wildly unethical journalist who offers to trade sex for information from an FBI agent portrayed by Jon Hamm.
“The AJC’s reporter is reduced to a sex-trading object in the film,” says the letter, which according to the AJC was sent to Warner Bros., Eastwood, screenwriter Billy Ray and others. “Such a portrayal makes it appear that the AJC sexually exploited its staff and/or that it facilitated or condoned offering sexual gratification to sources in exchange for stories. That is entirely false and malicious, and it is extremely defamatory and damaging.” |
If he wanted to make a movie about journalistic malpractice he could have done so without inventing sexist smears of real life people. He’s doing the exact thing he’s critiquing in the film.
_________________
14-5-3-12 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
loslakersss
Franchise Player
Joined: 31 Dec 2008
Posts: 11853
Location: LA
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| adkindo wrote: | | Was the entire point of Once Upon a Time in Hollywood to provide a preferred outcome on the night Sharon Tate was murdered? |
I don't think it was the entire point but I think it was a point. I've said before that it felt like a sort of eulogy to Tate in the form of a QT movie. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
loslakersss
Franchise Player
Joined: 31 Dec 2008
Posts: 11853
Location: LA
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
| adkindo wrote: | | loslakersss wrote: | | The Mule was good, haven't seen too many others by him and I was on the fence about this one. It seemed like a narrative on how nasty the media can be and how they will influence the public with no regard to what that influence will do to an individual. Interesting that he wanted to tell a true story about Richard Jewel yet in doing so he tells lies about the journalist. I think I'll have to pass on this too. |
I am not sure what lies were told about a journalist.....I have not followed any reviews/news of the movie. That said, forget the politics, it is a story that does not need to be forgotten. We continue to make the same mistakes and destroy lives of undeserving regular people to this day. The journalist irresponsibility is often just a symptom of larger forces in modern news/media and issues in society itself. |
I agree that there is plenty of blame to go around when it comes to the court of public opinion vilifying people and ruining their lives because of what is believed about them - even if what they believe has no actual evidence to support it. We often make up our minds about something when presented with only a fraction of the information - and typically that information is shared with the intent to sway people to feel a certain way/take a certain stance.
(the irony is not lost on me that I sort of did this in regards to the movie - feeling a certain way about it without actually having seen it/gotten all the information for a proper, well-informed opinion.) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
panamaniac
Franchise Player
Joined: 28 May 2011
Posts: 11240
Location: PTY
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| loslakersss wrote: | | The Mule was good, haven't seen too many others by him and I was on the fence about this one. It seemed like a narrative on how nasty the media can be and how they will influence the public with no regard to what that influence will do to an individual. Interesting that he wanted to tell a true story about Richard Jewel yet in doing so he tells lies about the journalist. I think I'll have to pass on this too. |
I really enjoyed The Mule, it even made my top 10 last year. Eastwood's filmography behind the camera is uneven but I appreciate most of his work. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Baron Von Humongous
Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| adkindo wrote: | | Was the entire point of Once Upon a Time in Hollywood to provide a preferred outcome on the night Sharon Tate was murdered? |
That's the primary theme - it's trying to give Tate a "second life" by recognizing her as a person, a presence, and a talent rather than just as a murder victim. It's paradoxically a condemnation of the modern true crime fetishization of murderers through comedic hyper-violence. Themes of nostalgia, regret, and acceptance as we age tie directly into the film's effort to "save" Tate.
_________________
Under New Management |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Baron Von Humongous
Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ocho wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | How in the (bleep) do you not nominate John Wick 3 for best stunt ensemble?! It should win every stunt award for the next five years let alone get a single damn nomination over The Joker. |
The Wick movies are great and the stunt work and fight choreography are top notch.
It’s important to remember when Joker gets 7 Oscar nominations that it is a bad movie and all the people involved in it are bad. |
Little did anyone expect, but Joker is this year's Green Book. |
It’s especially funny to reward Scorsese for Dummies in a year where we have an actual Scorsese movie in contention. |
"That'll show that old Marty for not kissing the ass of my beloved superhero movies."
_________________
Under New Management |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Baron Von Humongous
Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ocho wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | If you have time, ocho, I'd love to read your take on the editing in Marriage Story. |
It was cut very well. Baumbach’s films are always talky and ripe for the stage but I think he’s made visible strides as a director. I think it’s his most mature film visually. |
Agreed. I need to rewatch to remember the specific scenes, but there were some transitions that were really lovely and I could feel the fluidity of the pacing/cuts. And the framing in often smaller spaces - offices, hotel rooms, etc. - with two actors with very different physical dimensions was impressive.
_________________
Under New Management |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Baron Von Humongous
Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| adkindo wrote: | | loslakersss wrote: | | The Mule was good, haven't seen too many others by him and I was on the fence about this one. It seemed like a narrative on how nasty the media can be and how they will influence the public with no regard to what that influence will do to an individual. Interesting that he wanted to tell a true story about Richard Jewel yet in doing so he tells lies about the journalist. I think I'll have to pass on this too. |
I am not sure what lies were told about a journalist.....I have not followed any reviews/news of the movie. That said, forget the politics, it is a story that does not need to be forgotten. We continue to make the same mistakes and destroy lives of undeserving regular people to this day. The journalist irresponsibility is often just a symptom of larger forces in modern news/media and issues in society itself. |
Agreed, and I hope Clint lives long enough to direct a film about poor Peter Strzok and Lisa Page one day.
_________________
Under New Management |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
panamaniac
Franchise Player
Joined: 28 May 2011
Posts: 11240
Location: PTY
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| adkindo wrote: | | Was the entire point of Once Upon a Time in Hollywood to provide a preferred outcome on the night Sharon Tate was murdered? |
The ending sequence was your classic Tarantino revenge/course-correction fantasy. to reverse the events, and punish the people that robbed Hollywood of it's golden age and innocence. The rest of the movie was Leo and Brad traversing through the film industry, feeling like outsiders and somewhat being victims of a changing of guards. Tate surviving the Manson attacks plays into that, as her acquaintance with Leo will lead to him eventually working with Polanski and hopefully extend his "expiry date". Bring on the the sequel! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Baron Von Humongous
Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ocho wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | I haven’t seen it (and won’t) but this Richard Jewel movie has to be one of the most insidious releases of 2019, right? |
I am going to watch it in a theater and will report back. The second half of 15:17 to Paris and The Mule has me warming back up to old Clint. |
I’m lukewarm on his catalog and I don’t begrudge a conservative filmmaker (I’m a fan of a slew of conservative actors) but from a distance it appears his intention is to tee off on the two biggest villains in the eyes of conservatives: journalists and the government. I think we’ve got more than enough of that demonization in the water supply at the moment but even if you can set that aside, the fact that Eastwood is evidently so eager to smear journalists that he’s willing to invent a seriously ugly lie that the real life AJC reporter was willing to sleep with people for info is a bridge too far. It’s not enough to portray her as sensationalist or irresponsible. She has to be a whore. Hard pass on that (bleep). |
I don't know how much an 89-year-old guy making a movie about an event in 1996 is tapped into the current discourse, but having now waded this year through the dumb online debates about the insensitive portrayal of Sharon Tate's murderers, how Todd Phillips latest misanthrope-fest would lead to copycat crimes, and counting the number of Anna Paquin's lines, I've settled in on seeing the thing that offends critics in context before coming to a conclusion if the film seems interesting enough. If this movie had come out after American Sniper, it would've been a no, but The Mule bought some of my interest and good will.
I do expect it will be terrible even in context, though. |
I’d normally be willing to give Clint the benefit of the doubt if he hadn’t had a character list the film’s villains (the media and the government) in the trailer. It’s not like he’s trying to hide what he’s doing. The invented story about Kathy Scruggs prostituting herself for scoops reveals just how badly he wants to smear a journalist, not to mention being a gigantic hypocrite in the process. The other ‘controversies’ you named were bogus and lame from the jump. I don’t think this qualifies to be in that group. This is ugly stuff. |
I mean...Feds leaking info to the press about Clinton's e-mails helped kneecap her campaign. It's not an unproblematic dynamic that can cut across the political divide. Do I expect Clint to engage the issue with nuance? No...not when he has Olivia Wilde as Kathy Scruggs boning Jon Hamm's FBI agent.
Idk. Clint's late career exploration of the American everyman as reluctant, lucky, or dumb hero is kind of interesting to me.
_________________
Under New Management |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Omar Little
Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90307
Location: Formerly Known As 24
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | Was the entire point of Once Upon a Time in Hollywood to provide a preferred outcome on the night Sharon Tate was murdered? |
That's the primary theme - it's trying to give Tate a "second life" by recognizing her as a person, a presence, and a talent rather than just as a murder victim. It's paradoxically a condemnation of the modern true crime fetishization of murderers through comedic hyper-violence. Themes of nostalgia, regret, and acceptance as we age tie directly into the film's effort to "save" Tate. |
I'd bet you a thousand bucks QT had nary a one of those thoughts or aims. Like johnny Depp, he just keeps chasing how much peurile nonsense he can serve up and have the critics backfill it with blurbs like ^^^
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Baron Von Humongous
Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Omar Little wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | Was the entire point of Once Upon a Time in Hollywood to provide a preferred outcome on the night Sharon Tate was murdered? |
That's the primary theme - it's trying to give Tate a "second life" by recognizing her as a person, a presence, and a talent rather than just as a murder victim. It's paradoxically a condemnation of the modern true crime fetishization of murderers through comedic hyper-violence. Themes of nostalgia, regret, and acceptance as we age tie directly into the film's effort to "save" Tate. |
I'd bet you a thousand bucks QT had nary a one of those thoughts or aims. Like johnny Depp, he just keeps chasing how much peurile nonsense he can serve up and have the critics backfill it with blurbs like ^^^ |
I didn't get a B+ on an undergrad Roland Barthes essay to care about an artist's intention.
_________________
Under New Management |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
adkindo
Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 40345
Location: Dirty South
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | loslakersss wrote: | | The Mule was good, haven't seen too many others by him and I was on the fence about this one. It seemed like a narrative on how nasty the media can be and how they will influence the public with no regard to what that influence will do to an individual. Interesting that he wanted to tell a true story about Richard Jewel yet in doing so he tells lies about the journalist. I think I'll have to pass on this too. |
I am not sure what lies were told about a journalist.....I have not followed any reviews/news of the movie. That said, forget the politics, it is a story that does not need to be forgotten. We continue to make the same mistakes and destroy lives of undeserving regular people to this day. The journalist irresponsibility is often just a symptom of larger forces in modern news/media and issues in society itself. |
Agreed, and I hope Clint lives long enough to direct a film about poor Peter Strzok and Lisa Page one day. |
honestly was not even talking about political related people....I mean regular Joe's like Jewel. It happens all the time to different degrees. Something happens...wrong names and/or pictures are published because we demand information right now....then later corrections are made, but damage is done. Jewell was a fairly extreme case....but not isolated. Sometimes it is just local or regional....but that is just as bad for some people. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
