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dont_be_a_wuss
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 Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2023 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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The PGA hasn’t said anything about punishment. All they have said is that after the 2023 season they will figure out a path for LIV players to get their tour card.
The only person I have heard ask for punishment is Rory and maybe some of the other players…well we know the PGA leadership does whatever they want without taking the opinion of the players in to account. |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2023 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | The PGA hasn’t said anything about punishment. All they have said is that after the 2023 season they will figure out a path for LIV players to get their tour card.
The only person I have heard ask for punishment is Rory and maybe some of the other players…well we know the PGA leadership does whatever they want without taking the opinion of the players in to account. |
Jimmy Dunne talked about punishments:
| Quote: | If the LIV Golf League folds, Dunne said a committee that includes current PGA Tour members and administrators would determine potential punishment for players who left for it but want to apply for reinstatement to the PGA Tour.
"I think we would form a panel, including tour players, that would evaluate what the terms would be," Dunne said. "Remember, they're coming back to compete on the tour, so they have to be confident that they would be good enough to continue to play, and they have to be willing to incur the penalty for having gone." |
He also outlined the equity plans for NewCo. Only loyal players will get equity shares. LIV players won't. |
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dont_be_a_wuss
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| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2023 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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^thanks for pulling that! We will have to see what happens. He says they have to be confident they are good enough to compete so hopefully that means only the lesser known guys would have trouble getting their card back because they aren’t top 125 or whatever the tour card cutoff is.
As far as the equity, I don’t think the loyalist will get anything that significant. If there is an employee stock option that all players have access to, the LIV players should have enough money to buy options if they so choose.
I think. Rooks, Bryson, Cam Smith etc will face a different path that the fringe pga players who went to LIV. Hopefully nobody with a fan base will be punished. |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2023 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | ^thanks for pulling that! We will have to see what happens. He says they have to be confident they are good enough to compete so hopefully that means only the lesser known guys would have trouble getting their card back because they aren’t top 125 or whatever the tour card cutoff is.
As far as the equity, I don’t think the loyalist will get anything that significant. If there is an employee stock option that all players have access to, the LIV players should have enough money to buy options if they so choose.
I think. Rooks, Bryson, Cam Smith etc will face a different path that the fringe pga players who went to LIV. Hopefully nobody with a fan base will be punished. |
Yeah it'd be interesting what kind of equity shares players get. It could be a windfall if they hold onto these shares long enough. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2023 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | OK. The PGA is coming off as hypocritical.
Enjoy your evening.  |
Putting our dispute as to who the bigger hypocrite is in regards to PGA/LIV aside. I should correct your analogy to better reflect what brougt me to the discussion in the first place:
Wife: Cheats on husband with murderous mob boss. Accuses the husband of abuse and thus encourages his brothers wives to also cheat on their husbands while threatening to ruin the husbands career unless his brothers let them.
Husband: Gets pissed off, starts divorce proceedings and encourages his brothers to divorce their wives if they cheat.
Wife: Wife threatens to tie husband up in divorce court for years while draining him of his savings unless he agrees to be her cuckold.
Husband: Reluctantly reconciles with wife, but obviously angry, imposes stiff conditions on how such a reconciliation will take place.
ChickenStu: Why is the husband being such a dick? All the wife wanted was a different bed to sleep in.
  
(Note to CS: This isn't to make you the butt of the joke, just making a point)
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2023 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | Putting our dispute as to who the bigger hypocrite is in regards to PGA/LIV aside. I should correct your analogy to better reflect what brougt me to the discussion in the first place:
Wife: Cheats on husband with murderous mob boss. Accuses the husband of abuse and thus encourages his brothers wives to also cheat on their husbands while threatening to ruin the husbands career unless his brothers let them.
Husband: Gets pissed off, starts divorce proceedings and encourages his brothers to divorce their wives if they cheat.
Wife: Wife threatens to tie husband up in divorce court for years while draining him of his savings unless he agrees to be her cuckold.
Husband: Reluctantly reconciles with wife, but obviously angry, imposes stiff conditions on how such a reconciliation will take place.
ChickenStu: Why is the husband being such a dick? All the wife wanted was a different bed to sleep in.
(Note to CS: This isn't to make you the butt of the joke, just making a point) |
Final Thoughts?
Or were the previous posts the final thoughts?
| DaMuleRules wrote: | | I see no point in repeating the discussion further because I have been very clear in explaining my point, and to redundantly go back forth is not in the best interest of either of our time (and I don't say that with any antagonism at all, I just think the horse should be allowed to RIP at this point). |
| DaMuleRules wrote: | | I will answer the bolded before moving on though: |
| DaMuleRules wrote: | | But at this point, we have deviated well away from what brought me to this discussion in the first place, which was CS's comment...... |
| DaMuleRules wrote: | And at this point I will leave the pro-LIVers to theirs and sincerely hope they continue to enjoy professional golf in its current form.
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | OK. The PGA is coming off as hypocritical.
Enjoy your evening. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2023 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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Call it An amendment based on new info. 😛
(Lighten up and have some fun. Life is more fun that way. 🤙🏻✌️)
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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dont_be_a_wuss
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| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2023 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | ^thanks for pulling that! We will have to see what happens. He says they have to be confident they are good enough to compete so hopefully that means only the lesser known guys would have trouble getting their card back because they aren’t top 125 or whatever the tour card cutoff is.
As far as the equity, I don’t think the loyalist will get anything that significant. If there is an employee stock option that all players have access to, the LIV players should have enough money to buy options if they so choose.
I think. Rooks, Bryson, Cam Smith etc will face a different path that the fringe pga players who went to LIV. Hopefully nobody with a fan base will be punished. |
Yeah it'd be interesting what kind of equity shares players get. It could be a windfall if they hold onto these shares long enough. |
Yeah should be a huge windfall if they hold on long enough, so I think LIV players should get employee stock options to buy in with their own money as well. |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2023 12:24 am Post subject: |
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F*@k the PGA Tour!
(That was for DMR. All in good fun, just to be clear!)
In all seriousness, I'm offended more by the Tour because I despise bullsh*t. Just don't bullsh*t me. They tried to take the moral high ground and it was just utter crap. Look, this was about money and protecting their financial interests, nothing more, and it was as clear as day to me that this was the case from the very beginning. And sure, taking shots at an entity funded by the Saudis was quite easier than, say, the notion of a rival league being funded by a well-liked person like Jack Nicklaus or something. But still, they acted all high and mighty, only to literally partner with these very people. It's a joke.
I understand anyone being offended at the Saudis' attempts at sportswashing. I get that part. However, I never quite understood vitriol at players choosing to go to LIV and actually taking the money. When Tour events and when corporations and sponsors take the Saudi money, crickets. Top pros used to play in European Tour (now the DP World Tour) events held in Saudi Arabia for enormous appearance fees, and nobody said a word. When the LIV guys took the money, they are the ones that get villified now? Have to deal with protestors, even? Again, just don't bullsh*t me, so that's why I always had a problem with it.
One final thing: I suspect that the majority of American workers would do what the LIV defectors did. Say you're working a 40-hour a week job and you make $100K a year. If a Saudi-owned company offered you the same gig, with the ability to still work locally, but for only 20 hours a week instead of 40, and with the same pay, do you think you would take it? Now imagine if they offered you $5MM as a signing bonus upfront. Do you think you would take it? Now imagine that, in addition to the $5MM signing bonus and the 20-hour work week, they will pay you a salary of $200K a year instead of $100K. Do you think you would take it? I'm sure some wouldn't, but I suspect that most would. |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2023 4:46 am Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | | In all seriousness, I'm offended more by the Tour because I despise bullsh*t. Just don't bullsh*t me. They tried to take the moral high ground and it was just utter crap. Look, this was about money and protecting their financial interests, nothing more, and it was as clear as day to me that this was the case from the very beginning. And sure, taking shots at an entity funded by the Saudis was quite easier than, say, the notion of a rival league being funded by a well-liked person like Jack Nicklaus or something. But still, they acted all high and mighty, only to literally partner with these very people. It's a joke. |
Exactly.
And this is what I said all along. Take out all the morality/ethical rhetoric and what do you have?
A contract dispute over money.
And you’re right. Take out the Saudis and replace them with Elon Musk and it plays out the same way.
Just minus the morality condemnations. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2023 7:12 am Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | F*@k the PGA Tour!
(That was for DMR. All in good fun, just to be clear!)
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Definitely! F*@k them (and that DMR guy too! - glad to see someone in this discussion has a sense of humor)
But seriously, the very first thing I said here after the merger was that I was done with pro golf . . . all of it. I have no respect for LIV or the PGA. I don't think I could have more clear on that.
The only place I see you and I disagreeing is on the issue of how LIV and the players handled it all and conducted themselves. It very clearly wasn't simply guys going to take big money for an easier schedule and leaving it at that. There was serious acrimony coming from Norman, Mickelson et al from the from the outset. And it's no coincidence that most of the biggest d-bags in the game where the first and most vocal ones to bail.
You and I will obviously never agree that the PGA is the true bad entity here and that's fine. But since you brought up builshi††ing, I think it is important to be honest about all the aspects of this mess.
And as for the sportswashing aspect is not some inconsequential issue lurking on the side. It's a big deal when you get down int what it all really means.
But I'll just reiterate . . . yeah, F$!K the the PGA too.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2023 8:13 am Post subject: |
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| Eh, seeing how the PGA players are now with their hands out for Saudi money (they are literally demanding a loyalty fee from their new Saudi investors for their loyalty to the PGA), the blood money was a talking point instructed by their CEO to try to get rid of their competition before it gained a foothold. |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2023 10:11 am Post subject: |
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Yup, and don't forget that this is is also a legal issue as far as violating antitrust laws. It's always been that and that hasn't gone away either:
| Quote: | Report: U.S. DOJ opens review of PGA Tour-Saudi alliance
The U.S. Department of Justice has opened a review of the PGA Tour's planned alliance with the DP World Tour and Saudi Arabia's Public Investment Fund, according to a report Thursday by The Wall Street Journal.
The news comes one day after U.S. Sens. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) and Ron Wyden of (D-Ore.) urged U.S. Attorney General Merrick Garland and Assistant Attorney General Jonathan Kanter to scrutinize the deal and take action if it violates federal antitrust laws.
The Wall Street Journal reported that a senior PGA Tour official notified employees this week that the outcome of the deal "likely won't be known for at least a year," and that a regulatory review could take longer than that.
A PGA Tour spokesman declined comment when asked about the report.
Wyden, chairman of the U.S. Senate Finance Committee, also notified PGA Tour executives Thursday that his committee is opening a wide-ranging investigation.
| Quote: | Wyden is seeking clarification of the framework of the deal, including:
- financial and leadership structure;
- evidence of the PGA Tour's compliance as a 501(c)(6) tax-exempt organization;
- an explanation of Ed Herlihy's "simultaneous roles as chairman of the PGA Tour Board of Directors and a partner/co-chair of Wachtell Lipton, the law firm reportedly representing the PGA Tour in the deal; and
- an assessment of the deal's implications for "national security, data privacy and censorship of individuals involved in the Tour." |
In a letter to PGA Tour commissioner Jay Monahan and other executives, Wyden wrote he had "serious questions about any compensation arrangements, formal or informal, proposed as part of this merger framework intended to personally and financially benefit the already lavishly compensated officers and employees of the PGA Tour."
Wyden noted the PGA Tour's most recent tax forms reported that Monahan earned nearly $14 million in 2021. The tour and affiliated organizations paid 19 officers and employees more than $1 million annually and spent more than $63 million in salaries for "top staff," according to Wyden.
| Quote: | | "In addition, IRS filings and public reporting indicate that Commissioner Monahan and other Tour officials make extensive personal use of the PGA [Tour]-owned jet for trips in the United States and abroad," Wyden's letter said. "It is difficult to rationalize how any further increases in compensation to Tour executives would be in the best interest of the PGA Tour or further the Tour's tax-exempt purpose." |
Justice Department officials were already scrutinizing the PGA Tour's alleged monopolistic practices, which were outlined in a federal antitrust lawsuit filed by 11 LIV Golf League players in August. They accused the PGA Tour of using its monopoly powers to quash competition and discourage vendors, media companies and others from working with the new circuit being financed by Saudi Arabia's sovereign wealth fund.
| Quote: | | In a letter to Garland and Kanter, Warren and Wyden wrote that the "PGA-LIV deal would make a U.S. organization complicit -- and force American golfers and their fans to join this complicity -- in the Saudi regime's latest attempt to sanitize its abuses by pouring funds into major sports leagues." |
Sen. Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.), chairman of the U.S. Senate's Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations, notified Monahan and LIV Golf CEO and commissioner Greg Norman on Monday that his subcommittee had opened an inquiry into the planned alliance.
| Quote: | "I am a former U.S. attorney, a federal prosecutor, and state attorney general who has enforced antitrust law, and I think there's a clear case to be investigated -- and very likely made -- here about antitrust violation," Blumenthal told ESPN on Wednesday.
"Remember, we're having two major entities, comparable to Ford and GM becoming one? An end to competition? That's a classic violation of the competitive protection laws in this country, so I think an investigation is well warranted." |
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https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/37858427/report-us-doj-opens-review-pga-tour-saudi-alliance |
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LakerLanny
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| Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2023 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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OK, back to actual golf.
How about Fowler and Schauffele both shooting 8 under today in a US Open?
That is insanely low scoring for a US Open, I don't care how easy the course may be playing.
Long way to go obviously, but it would be amazing if local kid Ricky Fowler could win the US Open after his last few years of declining status.
And of course Schauffele carries the hope of Aztec Nation with him, certainly he is due to win a major at some point.
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dont_be_a_wuss
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| Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2023 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Let’s see how the USGA reacts. At one point in the day the average score was around 71.5 which is really low for a US Open. |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2023 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | Let’s see how the USGA reacts. At one point in the day the average score was around 71.5 which is really low for a US Open. |
I'd say the low scoring was a combination of three factors, with #3 being by far the most important:
1) The marine layer and overcast conditions softened the course, and that combined with little to no wind is always helpful for scoring conditions
2) The greens look perfect, and the putts are rolling true
3) The fairways are unusually wide for a US Open setup. The rough is gnarly and typical of what you'd see, but the fairways are much more accessible. I heard them say near the end of the day that about 66% of the drives off the tee were hitting the fairway, and the PGA Tour average is 58%. Obviously, it's usually much more difficult at a US Open to do so than in a PGA Tour event.
I'm expecting some tough pin placements tomorrow. They will try to course correct. |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2023 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Paul Azinger just said on the broadcast that these are some of the finest greens and bunkers he's seen. It matches my post from last night about the greens, so that makes me feel good. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2023 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | | Paul Azinger just said on the broadcast that these are some of the finest greens and bunkers he's seen. It matches my post from last night about the greens, so that makes me feel good. |
New career in the booth for you maybe?
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2023 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | Paul Azinger just said on the broadcast that these are some of the finest greens and bunkers he's seen. It matches my post from last night about the greens, so that makes me feel good. |
New career in the booth for you maybe? |
I don't even think that my Sports Jeopardy championship will be enough to sway the execs at NBC Sports when it's time for Azinger to retire. |
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LakerLanny
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| Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2023 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | Paul Azinger just said on the broadcast that these are some of the finest greens and bunkers he's seen. It matches my post from last night about the greens, so that makes me feel good. |
New career in the booth for you maybe? |
I don't even think that my Sports Jeopardy championship will be enough to sway the execs at NBC Sports when it's time for Azinger to retire. |
You called the course fighting back today Stu. Whether it was tougher pins, less watering, whatever...the scores are definitely no where near as low today and it is playing more towards traditional US Open scoring today.
Love to see Fowler hanging in there, I am rooting for him as a local guy who has paid his dues and seen the highs and lows. A win for him would be tremendous, but of course a ton of golf still to play.
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2023 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | Paul Azinger just said on the broadcast that these are some of the finest greens and bunkers he's seen. It matches my post from last night about the greens, so that makes me feel good. |
New career in the booth for you maybe? |
I don't even think that my Sports Jeopardy championship will be enough to sway the execs at NBC Sports when it's time for Azinger to retire. |
You called the course fighting back today Stu. Whether it was tougher pins, less watering, whatever...the scores are definitely no where near as low today and it is playing more towards traditional US Open scoring today.
Love to see Fowler hanging in there, I am rooting for him as a local guy who has paid his dues and seen the highs and lows. A win for him would be tremendous, but of course a ton of golf still to play. |
He's made 18 birdies in the first 36 holes, a new US Open record. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 6:07 am Post subject: |
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Meanwhile, Brooks is a bit salty about the course: 😂
Brooks Koepka struggling to find form at LACC: 'It's not my favorite'
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| The course appears to be continuing to fight back. Fowler is still -10 through 12 holes and he's leading by 1. The scores are still lower than you'd see at a typical US Open, but it's stabilized after Round 1 for sure. |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| No one in the Top 10 shot better than 68 today. Fowler had a brutal 18th to fall into a tie for the lead at -10 with Clark; his 40-footer for birdie lipped out, and then his 4-footer for par also lipped out, his first miss all week from inside of 5 feet. McIlroy is just 1 back. Scheffler had an eagle-birdie finish (both on par 4's, so he holed out on his approach on 17) and is only 3 back. |
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dont_be_a_wuss
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| Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| 4 players in the top 7 shot even par or worse |
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