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Jesusdelonla
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Joined: 24 Jan 2018
Posts: 15430
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 Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Jesusdelonla wrote: | Trade McGee and have a rotation of
Cousins
Dwight
Pick up a young center at vet minimum |
Eh, rather have McGee and not rely on Cousins' deteriorating body. |
rather not have mcgee, cousins, dwight on same team.
because of politics we will sign cousins. i dont want him either |
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LakerMindLA
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Joined: 26 Dec 2008
Posts: 5344
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Jesusdelonla wrote: | Trade McGee and have a rotation of
Cousins
Dwight
Pick up a young center at vet minimum |
Eh, rather have McGee and not rely on Cousins' deteriorating body. |
I'd rather have Cousins on the team. It is about risk / reward. Low risk and high reward and another go-to scoring option. We need that scoring option because AD is not that player - AD is a finisher.
Cousins should be healthy next year. There is no reason to think that he won't - even with his ACL injury, 2 years removed from the achilles is huge. |
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SPO200
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Joined: 28 Jun 2018
Posts: 1458
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:20 am Post subject: |
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| If we sign Cousins it should be without it having any impact to the cap. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:50 am Post subject: |
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| LakerMindLA wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Jesusdelonla wrote: | Trade McGee and have a rotation of
Cousins
Dwight
Pick up a young center at vet minimum |
Eh, rather have McGee and not rely on Cousins' deteriorating body. |
I'd rather have Cousins on the team. It is about risk / reward. Low risk and high reward and another go-to scoring option. We need that scoring option because AD is not that player - AD is a finisher.
Cousins should be healthy next year. There is no reason to think that he won't - even with his ACL injury, 2 years removed from the achilles is huge. |
Should he be? Anyway, fingers crossed.
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epic_
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Joined: 23 Jan 2020
Posts: 11310
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:53 am Post subject: |
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I dont want to look ahead, because there's so much fun to be had in the 2nd half of the season and the playoffs. But this summer is going to be a fun/anxious time for the Lakers and the fans.
Pretty much every single signed player can be traded as the "no-trade" stipulation will have expired.
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LakerMindLA
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Joined: 26 Dec 2008
Posts: 5344
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | LakerMindLA wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Jesusdelonla wrote: | Trade McGee and have a rotation of
Cousins
Dwight
Pick up a young center at vet minimum |
Eh, rather have McGee and not rely on Cousins' deteriorating body. |
I'd rather have Cousins on the team. It is about risk / reward. Low risk and high reward and another go-to scoring option. We need that scoring option because AD is not that player - AD is a finisher.
Cousins should be healthy next year. There is no reason to think that he won't - even with his ACL injury, 2 years removed from the achilles is huge. |
Should he be? Anyway, fingers crossed. |
Will KD be healthy? Will Klay?
It isn't like has some degenerative knee issue. This doesn't seem to be an Amar'e, Blake, Rose type of issue. There is no reason to think that he will be injured again when both would considered fluke issues. Achilles are tough to come back from, but 2 years removed is usually the timeline to get back close to 100%. |
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PASTOR RILEY
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Joined: 26 Dec 2019
Posts: 3403
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| epic_ wrote: | I dont want to look ahead, because there's so much fun to be had in the 2nd half of the season and the playoffs. But this summer is going to be a fun/anxious time for the Lakers and the fans.
Pretty much every single signed player can be traded as the "no-trade" stipulation will have expired. |
but who want them? This FO is not too smart to make good moves |
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SPO200
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Joined: 28 Jun 2018
Posts: 1458
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| epic_ wrote: | I dont want to look ahead, because there's so much fun to be had in the 2nd half of the season and the playoffs. But this summer is going to be a fun/anxious time for the Lakers and the fans.
Pretty much every single signed player can be traded as the "no-trade" stipulation will have expired. |
Let's see what players opt-in. |
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vasashi17+
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Joined: 13 Dec 2019
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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| SPO200 wrote: | | If we sign Cousins it should be without it having any impact to the cap. |
For this summer or the following summer (ie 2021)?
We're projected to be capped out this summer, so it won't matter if Boog is on a 1 year deal (which essentially builds in a NTC into his contract). Now if that contract leaks into 2021, then I understand your concern, but again there is more to it.
I hope the following clears up stuff for some folks.
If some of you are really interested in 2021 and the likes of Giannis or another 30%max player that summer, then our current books will get in the way.
The projected salary cap this year alone went from 117m to 115m and could be lower in the upcoming April projections...and its all due to the Chinese freeze out of the NBA.
But lets assume it doesn't impact 2021 as well, then we're at a projected 125m salary cap. AD signing a 30%max this summer, means year 2 of that contract that will be on our 2021 books will have a cap hit of 37.3m.
Lets say Bron opts into his 41m player option for 2021 and we deal away Kuz and our 2020 1st round pick for future draft compensation so that both deals won't impact our 2021 books...with just Bron/AD alone will yield around 94m in team salary (including Deng cap hit and incomplete roster charges), leaving roughly 31m in cap space.
A 2021 30%max contract has a 37.5m payout in year 1 of the deal. So we're almost 7m short of paying Giannis his true max that summer.
Ways to get around that is Bron has to sacrifice some of his bag by opting out that 41m deal, or we conduct a tricky S&t deal with RFA Kuz in that he either heads to the Bucks or elsewhere to bring back Giannis on a 30%max deal that the Bucks ink him to.
Needless to say, alot has to go right for a 2021 plan to be even viable for us. |
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epic_
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Joined: 23 Jan 2020
Posts: 11310
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| PASTOR RILEY wrote: | | epic_ wrote: | I dont want to look ahead, because there's so much fun to be had in the 2nd half of the season and the playoffs. But this summer is going to be a fun/anxious time for the Lakers and the fans.
Pretty much every single signed player can be traded as the "no-trade" stipulation will have expired. |
but who want them? This FO is not too smart to make good moves |
The only potential trade piece guys signed are Green, Alex, Kuz and THT.
I think Kuz has value. Low cost plus there is still some potential.
I think Green has value. Vet with playoff experience. Who can hit shots and still defend at a high quality. Who doesn't need the ball and won't complain about it.
I think Alex has value. No explanation needed.
I think THT has value. Potential.
The following have a player option. If they opt in..
I think KCP has value. Remember how you valued him coming out of Detroit? I actually think he's improved his shot since then.
I think AB has value. He's point of attack defender. And if his shooting continues to trend up, that's a huge plus for his game.
I think McGee has value. He's a backup center though.
I think Rondo won't have much value.
I say fun, because even edge moves are fun for me.
I say anxious, because who knows what AD will do.
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144539
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerMindLA wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | LakerMindLA wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Jesusdelonla wrote: | Trade McGee and have a rotation of
Cousins
Dwight
Pick up a young center at vet minimum |
Eh, rather have McGee and not rely on Cousins' deteriorating body. |
I'd rather have Cousins on the team. It is about risk / reward. Low risk and high reward and another go-to scoring option. We need that scoring option because AD is not that player - AD is a finisher.
Cousins should be healthy next year. There is no reason to think that he won't - even with his ACL injury, 2 years removed from the achilles is huge. |
Should he be? Anyway, fingers crossed. |
Will KD be healthy? Will Klay?
It isn't like has some degenerative knee issue. This doesn't seem to be an Amar'e, Blake, Rose type of issue. There is no reason to think that he will be injured again when both would considered fluke issues. Achilles are tough to come back from, but 2 years removed is usually the timeline to get back close to 100%. |
KD likely won’t be close to the KD we knew before. And Cousins will likely never be the player he was pre-injury. 100% will be reset from his previous 100%. Three serious leg injuries in 3 years aren’t easy to rebound from, especially with the wear and tear of those legs pounding on a hard floor.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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drae
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Joined: 13 Nov 2018
Posts: 16145
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| And also Klay will never be the same guy defensively when he returns from his ACL, just like Rondo was never the same defensively after his ACL |
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Great One
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 3174
Location: Girl I'm Back in Spanish Town
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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Will reserve judgment of Cousins untill the playoffs.
Feel like the lakers are banking on him to putting them over the top, and if thats the case......
EXTEND HIM.
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eddiejonze
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Joined: 19 Dec 2013
Posts: 7328
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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Jimmy buckets should have been our plan B and maybe he was, but Kahwi dragging his feet screwed us and THAT'S why people are so mad, not that he shunned us, but many believe he was never gonna come and just led us on to create leverage.
Butler wanted to come here according to reports, and is doing well this year, and could spell lebron and we wouldn't lose much punch.
We have the best record in the west however, and if it aint broke, don't fix it.
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AFireInside619
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Joined: 11 Dec 2015
Posts: 11447
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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| eddiejonze wrote: | Jimmy buckets should have been our plan B and maybe he was, but Kahwi dragging his feet screwed us and THAT'S why people are so mad, not that he shunned us, but many believe he was never gonna come and just led us on to create leverage.
Butler wanted to come here according to reports, and is doing well this year, and could spell lebron and we wouldn't lose much punch.
We have the best record in the west however, and if it aint broke, don't fix it. |
I agree with you 100%. We can’t discount the fact that Jimmy and his agent used us before. He wanted to be a Laker and then they gave him a huge extension and he signed that (bleep) so quick.
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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| I guess the first Stage of making no trades and missing out on the good buyout guys is convincing yourself that Cousins will be an impact playoff guy. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| epic_ wrote: | I think Kuz has value. Low cost plus there is still some potential.
I think Green has value. Vet with playoff experience. Who can hit shots and still defend at a high quality. Who doesn't need the ball and won't complain about it.
I think Alex has value. No explanation needed.
I think THT has value. Potential. |
I don't think any of those guys have significant trade value. I'm not saying zero trade value, but not a lot. Kuzma is an average player who would probably be unknown if he wasn't a Laker. Green is overpaid and just past his sell-by date. Caruso is a backup PG, the kind of guy you want in the 8-10 slots on your bench. THT is nothing, as of now. |
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Hector the Pup
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Location: L.A.
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerMindLA wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | LakerMindLA wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Jesusdelonla wrote: | Trade McGee and have a rotation of
Cousins
Dwight
Pick up a young center at vet minimum |
Eh, rather have McGee and not rely on Cousins' deteriorating body. |
I'd rather have Cousins on the team. It is about risk / reward. Low risk and high reward and another go-to scoring option. We need that scoring option because AD is not that player - AD is a finisher.
Cousins should be healthy next year. There is no reason to think that he won't - even with his ACL injury, 2 years removed from the achilles is huge. |
Should he be? Anyway, fingers crossed. |
Will KD be healthy? Will Klay?
It isn't like has some degenerative knee issue. This doesn't seem to be an Amar'e, Blake, Rose type of issue. There is no reason to think that he will be injured again when both would considered fluke issues. Achilles are tough to come back from, but 2 years removed is usually the timeline to get back close to 100%. |
That would be 2 years without an injury.
Cousins, however, injured his quads and tore an ACL during that period of time.
Bigs do not go from a history of major lower body injuries to healthy as they get older. Note that I did not say 'rarely'. They just don't. |
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PHILosophize
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Joined: 05 Nov 2012
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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yeah cousins is basically done as an impact player and likely done as even a rotation player IMO
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vasashi17+
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Joined: 13 Dec 2019
Posts: 5662
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | epic_ wrote: | I think Kuz has value. Low cost plus there is still some potential.
I think Green has value. Vet with playoff experience. Who can hit shots and still defend at a high quality. Who doesn't need the ball and won't complain about it.
I think Alex has value. No explanation needed.
I think THT has value. Potential. |
I don't think any of those guys have significant trade value. I'm not saying zero trade value, but not a lot. Kuzma is an average player who would probably be unknown if he wasn't a Laker. Green is overpaid and just past his sell-by date. Caruso is a backup PG, the kind of guy you want in the 8-10 slots on your bench. THT is nothing, as of now. |
Again, I completely agree with AH.
If our guys all opt in to their player options, we got 40m+ in expirings and aren’t restricted by NTCs.
The thing is, those contracts are only valuable to teams looking to get off longterm deals. So it would be for guys like AGordon, Beal, Hield, LaVine, etc.
But that means we scrap the 2021 plan unless we flip those deals to the Bucks for Giannis. Is that realistic? Only way it becomes even remotely plausible is if Giannis forced his way here a la AD. Nothing about Giannis’s mode suggests that.
So all our potential expirings wont really have value in a market where most teams have already set-up for 2021 free agency and won’t need those expirings or potential disgruntled stars (who can be difference makers) haven’t shown they want out yet.
I still aim for either a young stretch 5 like Turner or a playmaking guard type like DeJounte or Simmons (using that Klutch konnection). Imo chasing Giannis will lead to another kawhiet free agency for us in 2021. Unless we bring in legit closets into our FO ranks, we should abandon that plan ASAP. |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | epic_ wrote: | I think Kuz has value. Low cost plus there is still some potential.
I think Green has value. Vet with playoff experience. Who can hit shots and still defend at a high quality. Who doesn't need the ball and won't complain about it.
I think Alex has value. No explanation needed.
I think THT has value. Potential. |
I don't think any of those guys have significant trade value. I'm not saying zero trade value, but not a lot. Kuzma is an average player who would probably be unknown if he wasn't a Laker. Green is overpaid and just past his sell-by date. Caruso is a backup PG, the kind of guy you want in the 8-10 slots on your bench. THT is nothing, as of now. |
If those four guys were were on another team and we were trading for them, I doubt anyone here would think they were worth giving up much for.
It's the typical case of thinking your guys are worth more simply because they're your guys. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerMindLA wrote: | | Cousins should be healthy next year. There is no reason to think that he won't - even with his ACL injury, 2 years removed from the achilles is huge. |
Cousins is 30 and he's had significant injuries each of the past three years -- achilles, torn quad, ACL. Injuries like that damage the structure of the leg, and increase the chance of future injury.
Even if he starts the season healthy, he's always going to be at higher risk of not being able to finish the season |
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danzag
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Joined: 28 Apr 2013
Posts: 22426
Location: Brazil
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know why people are keep such high hopes re: Cousins
3 major injuries... Don't think he'll ever be 50% of the player he once was |
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vasashi17+
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Joined: 13 Dec 2019
Posts: 5662
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | LakerMindLA wrote: | | Cousins should be healthy next year. There is no reason to think that he won't - even with his ACL injury, 2 years removed from the achilles is huge. |
Cousins is 30 and he's had significant injuries each of the past three years -- achilles, torn quad, ACL. Injuries like that damage the structure of the leg, and increase the chance of future injury.
Even if he starts the season healthy, he's always going to be at higher risk of not being able to finish the season |
His injury history is highly suggestive of a maligned kinetic chain. And that only leads to a slippery slope towards compensatory injuries bilaterally (ie affecting the healthy limb to place less stress on the injured one).
If Boog re-ups with us or any team, I feel he's going to be managed accordingly and should be seen as a dude who rehabs in season before any decision is made to rev him up (like during the playoffs).
I have hopes he can come back in the WCF/Finals this year, but at a low mpg number. His mobility will be akin to the Joker, which I can live with since he's a highly skilled offensive player that doesn't heavily rely on his athleticism. |
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epic_
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Joined: 23 Jan 2020
Posts: 11310
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | epic_ wrote: | I think Kuz has value. Low cost plus there is still some potential.
I think Green has value. Vet with playoff experience. Who can hit shots and still defend at a high quality. Who doesn't need the ball and won't complain about it.
I think Alex has value. No explanation needed.
I think THT has value. Potential. |
I don't think any of those guys have significant trade value. I'm not saying zero trade value, but not a lot. Kuzma is an average player who would probably be unknown if he wasn't a Laker. Green is overpaid and just past his sell-by date. Caruso is a backup PG, the kind of guy you want in the 8-10 slots on your bench. THT is nothing, as of now. |
Right.
Value, even small enough to make trades.
I don't think anyone is expecting a superstar in return. Or not sure if saying a player has values even means that.
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