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Inspector Gadget
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 Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| We drafted Ingram a year before Lonzo came out of the draft, in theory we could have traded Ingram + Kuz and picks for AD and kept Tatum, we would have had a ridiculous trio of AD/LeBron/Tatum, just bad management by the FO. |
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LakerSD
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Joined: 10 Nov 2016
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | PayasoLoco wrote: | | Am I the only one bitter the year doncic and Trae available at 3 is the year we didn’t have a draft pick and couldn’t truly tank |
I’m more bitter that Magic first thought about getting Lonzo because of his LA roots as opposed to drafting a stud like Tatum or Mitchell, we missed out on a lot of nice prospects because of our FO. |
I had Tatum #3. He just exploded.
Even Magic preferred Fox. He wasn't wrong. |
Tatum and Fox were the 2 I preferred. I wonder why Magic changed his mind, I guess the LaVar hype.
Not working out Tatum was a bad look. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSD wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | PayasoLoco wrote: | | Am I the only one bitter the year doncic and Trae available at 3 is the year we didn’t have a draft pick and couldn’t truly tank |
I’m more bitter that Magic first thought about getting Lonzo because of his LA roots as opposed to drafting a stud like Tatum or Mitchell, we missed out on a lot of nice prospects because of our FO. |
I had Tatum #3. He just exploded.
Even Magic preferred Fox. He wasn't wrong. |
Tatum and Fox were the 2 I preferred. I wonder why Magic changed his mind, I guess the LaVar hype.
Not working out Tatum was a bad look. |
Not working out Tatum didn't even make sense to me because he's such a Kobe fan and worked with a trainer since HS.
I knew he'd be better. I didn't think he'd be this good until several years from now.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | We drafted Ingram a year before Lonzo came out of the draft, in theory we could have traded Ingram + Kuz and picks for AD and kept Tatum, we would have had a ridiculous trio of AD/LeBron/Tatum, just bad management by the FO. |
NOH have made that trade without the new GM.
Why do you think they kept holding out?
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Inspector Gadget
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | PayasoLoco wrote: | | Am I the only one bitter the year doncic and Trae available at 3 is the year we didn’t have a draft pick and couldn’t truly tank |
I’m more bitter that Magic first thought about getting Lonzo because of his LA roots as opposed to drafting a stud like Tatum or Mitchell, we missed out on a lot of nice prospects because of our FO. |
I had Tatum #3. He just exploded.
Even Magic preferred Fox. He wasn't wrong. |
Tatum and Fox were the 2 I preferred. I wonder why Magic changed his mind, I guess the LaVar hype.
Not working out Tatum was a bad look. |
Not working out Tatum didn't even make sense to me because he's such a Kobe fan and worked with a trainer since HS.
I knew he'd be better. I didn't think he'd be this good until several years from now. |
Thank goodness Magic is no longer the POBO, he messed up big time and we are gonna look back and say how bad the 2017 draft was for this franchise, I know Lonzo had all the potential in the world but we also knew he had bust written all over him. |
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Mike@LG
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Joined: 10 Apr 2001
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Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | PayasoLoco wrote: | | Am I the only one bitter the year doncic and Trae available at 3 is the year we didn’t have a draft pick and couldn’t truly tank |
I’m more bitter that Magic first thought about getting Lonzo because of his LA roots as opposed to drafting a stud like Tatum or Mitchell, we missed out on a lot of nice prospects because of our FO. |
I had Tatum #3. He just exploded.
Even Magic preferred Fox. He wasn't wrong. |
Tatum and Fox were the 2 I preferred. I wonder why Magic changed his mind, I guess the LaVar hype.
Not working out Tatum was a bad look. |
Not working out Tatum didn't even make sense to me because he's such a Kobe fan and worked with a trainer since HS.
I knew he'd be better. I didn't think he'd be this good until several years from now. |
Thank goodness Magic is no longer the POBO, he messed up big time and we are gonna look back and say how bad the 2017 draft was for this franchise, I know Lonzo had all the potential in the world but we also knew he had bust written all over him. |
No we didn't.
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Jesusdelonla
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Joined: 24 Jan 2018
Posts: 15430
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | PayasoLoco wrote: | | Am I the only one bitter the year doncic and Trae available at 3 is the year we didn’t have a draft pick and couldn’t truly tank |
I’m more bitter that Magic first thought about getting Lonzo because of his LA roots as opposed to drafting a stud like Tatum or Mitchell, we missed out on a lot of nice prospects because of our FO. |
I had Tatum #3. He just exploded.
Even Magic preferred Fox. He wasn't wrong. |
Tatum and Fox were the 2 I preferred. I wonder why Magic changed his mind, I guess the LaVar hype.
Not working out Tatum was a bad look. |
Not working out Tatum didn't even make sense to me because he's such a Kobe fan and worked with a trainer since HS.
I knew he'd be better. I didn't think he'd be this good until several years from now. |
so many draft prospets, we didnt even bring in |
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Aeneas Hunter
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Thank goodness Magic is no longer the POBO, he messed up big time and we are gonna look back and say how bad the 2017 draft was for this franchise, I know Lonzo had all the potential in the world but we also knew he had bust written all over him. |
No we didn't. |
IG is exaggerating. Just the same, there were some red flags, in particular the shooting motion. He got better this year, but he is still a below average shooter after three seasons in the league.
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Mike@LG
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Joined: 10 Apr 2001
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Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Thank goodness Magic is no longer the POBO, he messed up big time and we are gonna look back and say how bad the 2017 draft was for this franchise, I know Lonzo had all the potential in the world but we also knew he had bust written all over him. |
No we didn't. |
IG is exaggerating. Just the same, there were some red flags, in particular the shooting motion. He got better this year, but he is still a below average shooter after three seasons in the league. |
Red flags with shooting motion?
No. Especially when he's been a SG for most of HS alongside a trainer the entire time. FT% is an indicator of 3pt range and Tatum was well ahead of the curve.
41% on very tight contest
45% on tight contest
43% of total 2point attempts shots assisted
54% of 3pt attempts shots assisted.
Given the context of his creation ability, he's not a below average shooter.
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Aeneas Hunter
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Thank goodness Magic is no longer the POBO, he messed up big time and we are gonna look back and say how bad the 2017 draft was for this franchise, I know Lonzo had all the potential in the world but we also knew he had bust written all over him. |
No we didn't. |
IG is exaggerating. Just the same, there were some red flags, in particular the shooting motion. He got better this year, but he is still a below average shooter after three seasons in the league. |
Red flags with shooting motion?
No. Especially when he's been a SG for most of HS alongside a trainer the entire time. FT% is an indicator of 3pt range and Tatum was well ahead of the curve.
41% on very tight contest
45% on tight contest
43% of total 2point attempts shots assisted
54% of 3pt attempts shots assisted.
Given the context of his creation ability, he's not a below average shooter. |
Why are you talking about Tatum?
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pjiddy
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Posts: 29077
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Jesusdelonla wrote: | | Laker's Fan wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | People complain about Kuzma at $1.9M. I’d love to see the same people’s reaction when we have Buddy making the same money as Anthony Davis. |
Kuz' rookie deal runs out next season. I don't see him getting Hield money in this market, but the difference won't be so pronounced. Buddy is on the expensive side. But his elite skill is shooting, and that comes at a premium in this league. He shot 39% on 9.6 3FGA per game this season, and has a career rate of 41% at volume. He also averaged 3 APG this year which tells you he isn't a black hole. |
Bogdan Bogan would be much cheaper if we can pull off a S&T with Kings.
2.7-7.3 36.9 from 3 pt line |
Why are the Kings going to trade Bogdan, who is starting for them? |
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | We drafted Ingram a year before Lonzo came out of the draft, in theory we could have traded Ingram + Kuz and picks for AD and kept Tatum, we would have had a ridiculous trio of AD/LeBron/Tatum, just bad management by the FO. |
Dude you were ejaculating over every Magic move in real time. Stop acting like you saw any of this coming. Go back to being in disbelief that people thought Melo was washed when he was shooting 28% from 3 and getting run off the court on D. |
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Laker's Fan
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Joined: 27 Jun 2002
Posts: 12865
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | I’m not trying to say he can’t shoot, but as an exercise let’s list all the elite teams paying $26M annually to a 1-dimensional shooter. |
IMO it's too rigid to say contenders only. Roster building starts with your stars and teams have to contort things to get that role filled. But the market for guards that can handle a bit and provide great spacing is strong (and for good reason). The elite guys are obvious (Curry, Lillard, Harden, Beal, maybe Booker). None of them are 2-way. Next layer gets paid around max too (McCollum, Russell, Murray). Even the next tier gets paid (Hield, Brogdon, LaVine). Elite shooting is a premium skill. Hield is overpaid but with a declining deal, isn't a liability. His impact spacing for two stars would be a nightly problem for teams.
I liked what I've seen from Kuz so far. Two-way wings are also really valuable. But he has a lot to prove yet. |
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | I’m not trying to say he can’t shoot, but as an exercise let’s list all the elite teams paying $26M annually to a 1-dimensional shooter. |
I'm confused. Are you talking about Hield or someone else? Hield makes 24 million next year, and then it decreases by 2 million every year after that. He makes 18 in the final year of the deal.
If he's fallen out of favor in Sac and they need to cut salary, you might be able to get him for Danny Green + Javale + a 2nd. You might hate his salary, but that's the kind of player we need to be looking for--a depressed asset, most likely overpaid. We don't have assets to trade for fairly paid players. Rob traded them all for Anthony Davis. |
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Mike@LG
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Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | I’m not trying to say he can’t shoot, but as an exercise let’s list all the elite teams paying $26M annually to a 1-dimensional shooter. |
I'm confused. Are you talking about Hield or someone else? Hield makes 24 million next year, and then it decreases by 2 million every year after that. He makes 18 in the final year of the deal.
If he's fallen out of favor in Sac and they need to cut salary, you might be able to get him for Danny Green + Javale + a 2nd. You might hate his salary, but that's the kind of player we need to be looking for--a depressed asset, most likely overpaid. We don't have assets to trade for fairly paid players. Rob traded them all for Anthony Davis. |
I would disagree with "1-dimensional". I would say that of guys who run to corners waiting for the ball.
He does it off the dribble and off screens. Critical.
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | I’m not trying to say he can’t shoot, but as an exercise let’s list all the elite teams paying $26M annually to a 1-dimensional shooter. |
I'm confused. Are you talking about Hield or someone else? Hield makes 24 million next year, and then it decreases by 2 million every year after that. He makes 18 in the final year of the deal.
If he's fallen out of favor in Sac and they need to cut salary, you might be able to get him for Danny Green + Javale + a 2nd. You might hate his salary, but that's the kind of player we need to be looking for--a depressed asset, most likely overpaid. We don't have assets to trade for fairly paid players. Rob traded them all for Anthony Davis. |
I would disagree with "1-dimensional". I would say that of guys who run to corners waiting for the ball.
He does it off the dribble and off screens. Critical. |
Something no one on this team does. The guys we signed were all stand-in-the-corner shooters. This was identified on this board by many, before a single preseason game was played, as a recipe for a gunky offense (and lo and behold our Bubble Offense). Lebron & AD create so much gravity to free up our shooters, but none of our shooters do this for our stars. Buddy does. His presence alone would really open up the offense. |
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Mike@LG
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Joined: 10 Apr 2001
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Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | I’m not trying to say he can’t shoot, but as an exercise let’s list all the elite teams paying $26M annually to a 1-dimensional shooter. |
I'm confused. Are you talking about Hield or someone else? Hield makes 24 million next year, and then it decreases by 2 million every year after that. He makes 18 in the final year of the deal.
If he's fallen out of favor in Sac and they need to cut salary, you might be able to get him for Danny Green + Javale + a 2nd. You might hate his salary, but that's the kind of player we need to be looking for--a depressed asset, most likely overpaid. We don't have assets to trade for fairly paid players. Rob traded them all for Anthony Davis. |
I would disagree with "1-dimensional". I would say that of guys who run to corners waiting for the ball.
He does it off the dribble and off screens. Critical. |
Something no one on this team does. The guys we signed were all stand-in-the-corner shooters. This was identified on this board by many, before a single preseason game was played, as a recipe for a gunky offense (and lo and behold our Bubble Offense). Lebron & AD create so much gravity to free up our shooters, but none of our shooters do this for our stars. Buddy does. His presence alone would really open up the offense. |
More like, the Lakers were stuck with "corner shooters" because that's what they could hypothetically afford. It was Kawhi, DLO (who got picked up), and then everyone else.
And, fwiw, I'm not sure DLO, LeBron, AD get LAL the same number of wins. People crap on Green's inconsistent shooting, but the defense is worth it. I can't even recall too many 2-way players remaining in FA outside of Beverley (Thank goodness he wasn't picked up) and Delon Wright.
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ocho
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Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 53839
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Laker's Fan wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | I’m not trying to say he can’t shoot, but as an exercise let’s list all the elite teams paying $26M annually to a 1-dimensional shooter. |
IMO it's too rigid to say contenders only. Roster building starts with your stars and teams have to contort things to get that role filled. But the market for guards that can handle a bit and provide great spacing is strong (and for good reason). The elite guys are obvious (Curry, Lillard, Harden, Beal, maybe Booker). None of them are 2-way. Next layer gets paid around max too (McCollum, Russell, Murray). Even the next tier gets paid (Hield, Brogdon, LaVine). Elite shooting is a premium skill. Hield is overpaid but with a declining deal, isn't a liability. His impact spacing for two stars would be a nightly problem for teams.
I liked what I've seen from Kuz so far. Two-way wings are also really valuable. But he has a lot to prove yet. |
Why too rigid? Who else would we compare ourselves to? The point was that elite teams don’t pay guys like Hield big money. Teams like the Kings do.
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Laker's Fan wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | I’m not trying to say he can’t shoot, but as an exercise let’s list all the elite teams paying $26M annually to a 1-dimensional shooter. |
IMO it's too rigid to say contenders only. Roster building starts with your stars and teams have to contort things to get that role filled. But the market for guards that can handle a bit and provide great spacing is strong (and for good reason). The elite guys are obvious (Curry, Lillard, Harden, Beal, maybe Booker). None of them are 2-way. Next layer gets paid around max too (McCollum, Russell, Murray). Even the next tier gets paid (Hield, Brogdon, LaVine). Elite shooting is a premium skill. Hield is overpaid but with a declining deal, isn't a liability. His impact spacing for two stars would be a nightly problem for teams.
I liked what I've seen from Kuz so far. Two-way wings are also really valuable. But he has a lot to prove yet. |
Why too rigid? Who else would we compare ourselves to? The point was that elite teams don’t pay guys like Hield big money. Teams like the Kings do. |
How many teams are going to be paying two guys 40 million dollars each and have no draft picks to trade? What is the point of comparing our roster construction to that of other teams? We have no cap space and no assets to acquire fairly paid good players. These are the moves you are left with when you bid against yourself in a trade for one player. |
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ocho
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Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 53839
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Laker's Fan wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | I’m not trying to say he can’t shoot, but as an exercise let’s list all the elite teams paying $26M annually to a 1-dimensional shooter. |
IMO it's too rigid to say contenders only. Roster building starts with your stars and teams have to contort things to get that role filled. But the market for guards that can handle a bit and provide great spacing is strong (and for good reason). The elite guys are obvious (Curry, Lillard, Harden, Beal, maybe Booker). None of them are 2-way. Next layer gets paid around max too (McCollum, Russell, Murray). Even the next tier gets paid (Hield, Brogdon, LaVine). Elite shooting is a premium skill. Hield is overpaid but with a declining deal, isn't a liability. His impact spacing for two stars would be a nightly problem for teams.
I liked what I've seen from Kuz so far. Two-way wings are also really valuable. But he has a lot to prove yet. |
Why too rigid? Who else would we compare ourselves to? The point was that elite teams don’t pay guys like Hield big money. Teams like the Kings do. |
How many teams are going to be paying two guys 40 million dollars each and have no draft picks to trade? What is the point of comparing our roster construction to that of other teams? We have no cap space and no assets to acquire fairly paid good players. These are the moves you are left with when you bid against yourself in a trade for one player. |
So.....I take it you can’t name any? 
Much like Hield’s bloated contract, your package for him keeps decreasing over time. It started at Kuzma and now it’s Danny Green and junk. Once you convince yourself to commit such a big chunk of cap to a single shooter, the reality of acquiring him becomes more difficult.
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Cutheon
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Joined: 10 Jul 2009
Posts: 12186
Location: Bay Area
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Before LBJ leaves, we need to leverage his relationship with James Jones and steal Booker. Won't happen, but it's nice to think about |
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Jesusdelonla
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Joined: 24 Jan 2018
Posts: 15430
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | Jesusdelonla wrote: | | Laker's Fan wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | People complain about Kuzma at $1.9M. I’d love to see the same people’s reaction when we have Buddy making the same money as Anthony Davis. |
Kuz' rookie deal runs out next season. I don't see him getting Hield money in this market, but the difference won't be so pronounced. Buddy is on the expensive side. But his elite skill is shooting, and that comes at a premium in this league. He shot 39% on 9.6 3FGA per game this season, and has a career rate of 41% at volume. He also averaged 3 APG this year which tells you he isn't a black hole. |
Bogdan Bogan would be much cheaper if we can pull off a S&T with Kings.
2.7-7.3 36.9 from 3 pt line |
Why are the Kings going to trade Bogdan, who is starting for them? |
so you think they will trade for Kuzma when they drafted Marvin Begley over trae/Luka and then pay Kuzma over the summer? lol |
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LakerMindLA
Star Player
Joined: 26 Dec 2008
Posts: 5344
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | PayasoLoco wrote: | | Am I the only one bitter the year doncic and Trae available at 3 is the year we didn’t have a draft pick and couldn’t truly tank |
I’m more bitter that Magic first thought about getting Lonzo because of his LA roots as opposed to drafting a stud like Tatum or Mitchell, we missed out on a lot of nice prospects because of our FO. |
I had Tatum #3. He just exploded.
Even Magic preferred Fox. He wasn't wrong. |
Tatum and Fox were the 2 I preferred. I wonder why Magic changed his mind, I guess the LaVar hype.
Not working out Tatum was a bad look. |
Not working out Tatum didn't even make sense to me because he's such a Kobe fan and worked with a trainer since HS.
I knew he'd be better. I didn't think he'd be this good until several years from now. |
Thank goodness Magic is no longer the POBO, he messed up big time and we are gonna look back and say how bad the 2017 draft was for this franchise, I know Lonzo had all the potential in the world but we also knew he had bust written all over him. |
No we didn't. |
We should have never drafted Lonzo because you don't build championship team around a pass-first PG. You build championship teams around elite scorers and the Lakers didn't have one and should have been using the draft to find one. |
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scout0_0
Starting Rotation
Joined: 06 Jul 2019
Posts: 918
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | PayasoLoco wrote: | | Am I the only one bitter the year doncic and Trae available at 3 is the year we didn’t have a draft pick and couldn’t truly tank |
I’m more bitter that Magic first thought about getting Lonzo because of his LA roots as opposed to drafting a stud like Tatum or Mitchell, we missed out on a lot of nice prospects because of our FO. |
I had Tatum #3. He just exploded.
Even Magic preferred Fox. He wasn't wrong. |
Tatum and Fox were the 2 I preferred. I wonder why Magic changed his mind, I guess the LaVar hype.
Not working out Tatum was a bad look. |
Not working out Tatum didn't even make sense to me because he's such a Kobe fan and worked with a trainer since HS.
I knew he'd be better. I didn't think he'd be this good until several years from now. |
Thank goodness Magic is no longer the POBO, he messed up big time and we are gonna look back and say how bad the 2017 draft was for this franchise, I know Lonzo had all the potential in the world but we also knew he had bust written all over him. |
No we didn't. |
Everyone knew the guy was a bust. Everyone except some Laker fans. |
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Jesusdelonla
Franchise Player
Joined: 24 Jan 2018
Posts: 15430
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuzma ain't going anywhere |
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