OFFICIAL GENERAL FREE AGENCY/TRADE THREAD (Shams: Lakers to sign Sekou Doumbouya)
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:15 am    Post subject:

Staccatos wrote:
I disagree on Monk. I think it's worth taking a risk on him. Yeah there's not much long term benefit due to the high likelihood that he'll move on next season.

But he has higher upside (with ability to contribute) than any undrafted and most all unsigned free agents right now. He's not currently a good NBA player but he is a legitimate average level NBA player. He had a pretty decent shooting year this last season (will he keep it up, who knows?). But he does at this point deserve to be in the league. So for a minimum contract I'd take him over almost everything else available on a minimum contract.


I look at the development of Talen Horton Tucker. Do you think Malik could develop point skills? He could become our future point guard. Nikola Jokic has Jamal Murray. Anthony Davis would have Malik Monk.

I am eager to see him in preseason

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Layup https://youtu.be/ybY9LAMOqTU?t=4m12s
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:21 am    Post subject:

pjiddy wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:
Charlotte cut bait on Monk after his drug suspension. It's understandable that they wouldn't extend him, but he did improve (PER wise) every season. I'm surprised that they didn't trade him. Then again, trading for a druggie is always risky and the NBA hallway is littered with the bodies of guys who drank, injected, smoked and snorted their way out of the league.

I hope Monk can be the feel good story of the year. Even if he balls out, I wouldn't expect (smart) GMs to go beyond the MLE. Many will be of the mindset that Monk held it together on a team filled with strong veteran leaders (Bron, Rondo, DJ, Melo, WB) and will wonder if he will revert to past behavior on a different team that doesn't have the same culture/chemistry.


Just bear in mind that he has been a terrible defensive player. Last year, he ranked 115th out of 116 SGs in DRPM, right behind Lou Williams. The previous year, he was 133rd out of 138, just ahead of RJ Barrett and Buddy Hield. The year before that he was 115th out of 123, just ahead of Grayson Allen and Buddy Hield. There's more to his story than just the drugs.

Maybe he'll get it together and become a real player. I have nothing against him. But if you don't play defense, I don't see how you get a lot of minutes from Vogel. That's where he needs to improve.


It's going to be interesting to see who wins SG minutes between Monk, Ellington, Bazemore, and THT.

Monk is probably under the most pressure.


Guessing Bazemore when the dust settles, since the 1-2 extra 3s Monk/Ellington might hit won't offset what they give up on D.


Bazemore is the closest thing we have to a 3-and-d. He'll probably spend some time at the 3 and 2 spots.

We're going to need someone to take some long shots, so Ellington, Monk or whoever shows some success with 3s will get some run even if their defense is bad.

We have a lot of guys who are a little short for their position, so it will be interesting how the Lakers juggle lineups.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:40 am    Post subject:

I thought last year's Laker return to prominence heightened anxiety for the season to start. It's nothing compared to the anxiety I feel for the coming season. I really chomping at the bit for it to start. Rob has built a Championship Or Bust roster. We play the Nets on Oct 1st preseason. Oct 18th can't come quick enough.

Lakers are over the cap $-51,856,560. Jeanie's spend to win may do it. I hope it does.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:50 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
I thought last year's Laker return to prominence heightened anxiety for the season to start. It's nothing compared to the anxiety I feel for the coming season. I really chomping at the bit for it to start. We play the Nets on Oct 1st preseason. Oct 18th can't come quick enough.


Season opener for the Lakers is on October 19
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:56 am    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
jodeke wrote:
I thought last year's Laker return to prominence heightened anxiety for the season to start. It's nothing compared to the anxiety I feel for the coming season. I really chomping at the bit for it to start. We play the Nets on Oct 1st preseason. Oct 18th can't come quick enough.


Season opener for the Lakers is on October 19

I know. I'm just ready for some basketball. 10/1 starts the balls bouncing and whistles blowing.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:46 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
pjiddy wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:
Charlotte cut bait on Monk after his drug suspension. It's understandable that they wouldn't extend him, but he did improve (PER wise) every season. I'm surprised that they didn't trade him. Then again, trading for a druggie is always risky and the NBA hallway is littered with the bodies of guys who drank, injected, smoked and snorted their way out of the league.

I hope Monk can be the feel good story of the year. Even if he balls out, I wouldn't expect (smart) GMs to go beyond the MLE. Many will be of the mindset that Monk held it together on a team filled with strong veteran leaders (Bron, Rondo, DJ, Melo, WB) and will wonder if he will revert to past behavior on a different team that doesn't have the same culture/chemistry.


Just bear in mind that he has been a terrible defensive player. Last year, he ranked 115th out of 116 SGs in DRPM, right behind Lou Williams. The previous year, he was 133rd out of 138, just ahead of RJ Barrett and Buddy Hield. The year before that he was 115th out of 123, just ahead of Grayson Allen and Buddy Hield. There's more to his story than just the drugs.

Maybe he'll get it together and become a real player. I have nothing against him. But if you don't play defense, I don't see how you get a lot of minutes from Vogel. That's where he needs to improve.


It's going to be interesting to see who wins SG minutes between Monk, Ellington, Bazemore, and THT.

Monk is probably under the most pressure.


Guessing Bazemore when the dust settles, since the 1-2 extra 3s Monk/Ellington might hit won't offset what they give up on D.


Bazemore is the closest thing we have to a 3-and-d. He'll probably spend some time at the 3 and 2 spots.

We're going to need someone to take some long shots, so Ellington, Monk or whoever shows some success with 3s will get some run even if their defense is bad.

We have a lot of guys who are a little short for their position, so it will be interesting how the Lakers juggle lineups.


I think Bazemore is going to get more minutes than most people expect. He can do a lot of things that this team is going to need.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:46 pm    Post subject:

Other than THT, our young players are all on de facto 1 yr expiring deals.

Some of those deep roster spots from 12-15, should be used on young reclamation projects.

Quote:
@espn_macmahon
Sources: Rockets and PG Dante Exum are close to agreeing to creatively structured deal that would be three years, nonguaranteed and heavy on incentives that fall under "likely bonuses" definition. Deal would be worth up to about $15M, roughly half of which would be incentives.


So essentially it’s a 3yr 7.5m nonguaranteed deal ie vet min base salary w/incentives.

When it comes to the way we would write out these type if deals, we would make them “unlikely incentives” that would convert to “likely” on a rebuilding team that could use these type of players at heavy minutes. These type of deals would be great trade fodder since it’s not much of a cap/tax hit on our books, but would count as outgoing salary to a team where their unlikely bonuses become likely (for example, mins per game).
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:51 pm    Post subject:

RI Laker wrote:


I think Bazemore is going to get more minutes than most people expect. He can do a lot of things that this team is going to need.


I think most of our roster has a pretty wide range of performance possibilities, from eh to solid enough. Because of that, I have no expectations of who will get minutes besides Lebron, AD, and Westbrook. Bazemore is as much in the running as anyone.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:06 pm    Post subject:

Russ
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Bron
Ad
Dh
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:10 pm    Post subject:

I’m guessing James Ennis is a no go? Being that a week past since Gasol was dealt…
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:19 pm    Post subject:

LAKERMIKE2 wrote:
I’m guessing James Ennis is a no go? Being that a week past since Gasol was dealt…


Not necessarily. But it's probably safe to say the Lakers aren't so impressed with him that they feel they need to rush to make a decision or be worried about another team signing him.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:23 am    Post subject:

On one hand, it is the mandatory 14th spot we have open, we have to fill it, likely leaving #15 for a midseason buyout opportunity.

So #14 on the roster, so what, that was likely Dudley, Cacock, or Kostas last year, playing wise, basically deadwood. Hopefully, all things being equal, its some guy likely to play 100-200 minutes the entire season, and not sniff the court come playoffs.

But we do have an older roster, and somebody is likely going to be on the DL at some point, you hope that #14 can actually give you serviceable minutes, should you need them. And I would say serviceable minutes means the capability to knock down open jumpers and make more than a token effort defensively.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:20 am    Post subject:

RI Laker wrote:
activeverb wrote:
pjiddy wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:
Charlotte cut bait on Monk after his drug suspension. It's understandable that they wouldn't extend him, but he did improve (PER wise) every season. I'm surprised that they didn't trade him. Then again, trading for a druggie is always risky and the NBA hallway is littered with the bodies of guys who drank, injected, smoked and snorted their way out of the league.

I hope Monk can be the feel good story of the year. Even if he balls out, I wouldn't expect (smart) GMs to go beyond the MLE. Many will be of the mindset that Monk held it together on a team filled with strong veteran leaders (Bron, Rondo, DJ, Melo, WB) and will wonder if he will revert to past behavior on a different team that doesn't have the same culture/chemistry.


Just bear in mind that he has been a terrible defensive player. Last year, he ranked 115th out of 116 SGs in DRPM, right behind Lou Williams. The previous year, he was 133rd out of 138, just ahead of RJ Barrett and Buddy Hield. The year before that he was 115th out of 123, just ahead of Grayson Allen and Buddy Hield. There's more to his story than just the drugs.

Maybe he'll get it together and become a real player. I have nothing against him. But if you don't play defense, I don't see how you get a lot of minutes from Vogel. That's where he needs to improve.


It's going to be interesting to see who wins SG minutes between Monk, Ellington, Bazemore, and THT.

Monk is probably under the most pressure.


Guessing Bazemore when the dust settles, since the 1-2 extra 3s Monk/Ellington might hit won't offset what they give up on D.


Bazemore is the closest thing we have to a 3-and-d. He'll probably spend some time at the 3 and 2 spots.

We're going to need someone to take some long shots, so Ellington, Monk or whoever shows some success with 3s will get some run even if their defense is bad.

We have a lot of guys who are a little short for their position, so it will be interesting how the Lakers juggle lineups.


I think Bazemore is going to get more minutes than most people expect. He can do a lot of things that this team is going to need.

He will, but it'll be out of necessity due to his wing defense

IMO he plays roughly 20mins per game (I actually think he starts), with us hoping that he can be serviceable from deep + not make too many bone-headed mistakes
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:07 am    Post subject:

Does anyone else feel like the Cavs will not buyout Klove, as long as the Lakers have that open roster spot? It would not surprise me if teams around the league have advised Cleveland to not buyout Klove, because the Lakers are waiting to scoop him up and him going there is not a good look. No need to help them out.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:58 am    Post subject:

Harlemlakerfan wrote:
Does anyone else feel like the Cavs will not buyout Klove, as long as the Lakers have that open roster spot? It would not surprise me if teams around the league have advised Cleveland to not buyout Klove, because the Lakers are waiting to scoop him up and him going there is not a good look. No need to help them out.


money talks, if KLove gave enough back, Cavs won't say no
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:35 am    Post subject:

Harlemlakerfan wrote:
Does anyone else feel like the Cavs will not buyout Klove, as long as the Lakers have that open roster spot? It would not surprise me if teams around the league have advised Cleveland to not buyout Klove, because the Lakers are waiting to scoop him up and him going there is not a good look. No need to help them out.


I think the cavaliers would prefer to trade Love, but they would be open to buying him out if he gave back enough money. From reports, it doesn't seem love is willing to give up any money. That's why I think there won't be a buyout, not because of other teams or because of the Lakers.

I don't see why they'd give a sh*t what other teams "advised" them to do. They're going to do what's best for them.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:48 am    Post subject:

vasashi17+ wrote:
Other than THT, our young players are all on de facto 1 yr expiring deals.

Some of those deep roster spots from 12-15, should be used on young reclamation projects.

Quote:
@espn_macmahon
Sources: Rockets and PG Dante Exum are close to agreeing to creatively structured deal that would be three years, nonguaranteed and heavy on incentives that fall under "likely bonuses" definition. Deal would be worth up to about $15M, roughly half of which would be incentives.


So essentially it’s a 3yr 7.5m nonguaranteed deal ie vet min base salary w/incentives.

When it comes to the way we would write out these type if deals, we would make them “unlikely incentives” that would convert to “likely” on a rebuilding team that could use these type of players at heavy minutes. These type of deals would be great trade fodder since it’s not much of a cap/tax hit on our books, but would count as outgoing salary to a team where their unlikely bonuses become likely (for example, mins per game).


I doubt there's any "reclamation projects" out there we have any interest in.

I'm also not sure that they have the trade value you imagine they do. I mean, would you want to pay someone like Exum a big guaranteed salary based on something like minutes played? If so, you would just sign him yourself.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:21 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
vasashi17+ wrote:
Other than THT, our young players are all on de facto 1 yr expiring deals.

Some of those deep roster spots from 12-15, should be used on young reclamation projects.

Quote:
@espn_macmahon
Sources: Rockets and PG Dante Exum are close to agreeing to creatively structured deal that would be three years, nonguaranteed and heavy on incentives that fall under "likely bonuses" definition. Deal would be worth up to about $15M, roughly half of which would be incentives.


So essentially it’s a 3yr 7.5m nonguaranteed deal ie vet min base salary w/incentives.

When it comes to the way we would write out these type if deals, we would make them “unlikely incentives” that would convert to “likely” on a rebuilding team that could use these type of players at heavy minutes. These type of deals would be great trade fodder since it’s not much of a cap/tax hit on our books, but would count as outgoing salary to a team where their unlikely bonuses become likely (for example, mins per game).


I doubt there's any "reclamation projects" out there we have any interest in.

I'm also not sure that they have the trade value you imagine they do. I mean, would you want to pay someone like Exum a big guaranteed salary based on something like minutes played? If so, you would just sign him yourself.


Not really disputing your take, but the bright lights of LA could help re-establish the size of their future potential bags. I’m sure that’s what Nunn and Monk are hoping for. And in the case of Nunn, we could have used the mMLE to construct a similar type of deal with him, but of course he hasn’t had the complications or even the previous deals Exum had to fall back on...so I guess the best we did was talk him out if not using the entire mMLE on him. We spared some taxes by limiting his annual to 5m instead of 5.9m and with the mMLE we could have offered up to 3 yrs in length with 5% escalators, so instead of the 2yr/10.25m deal he got, we could have offered a partially guaranteed 3yr/18.6m deal that was laced with incentives.

But in this particular case it is a moot point. It was a perfect storm for HTown to even be in position to offer Exum a creative deal like this. First, they have his bird rights and even if they didn’t, we get had exceptions (MLE or BAE) to use. The vet min exception can have no bonuses/incentives of any kind written up into it, and that’s all we had to offer at the moment.

I would just like the FO to start constructing some future potential assets, cause nearly every year, other our stars, it has been almost entire roster overhauls on shortterm stopgap deals (which just encourage future roster overhauls the following year). We got to start developing some assets in house to add to just THT. I doubt Nunn/Monk come back next year unless we heavily incentivize them...and as is, we most likely only have the mMLE to utilize next summer.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:29 am    Post subject:

Harlemlakerfan wrote:
Does anyone else feel like the Cavs will not buyout Klove, as long as the Lakers have that open roster spot? It would not surprise me if teams around the league have advised Cleveland to not buyout Klove, because the Lakers are waiting to scoop him up and him going there is not a good look. No need to help them out.


In addition to what the other posters said, you need to understand that Love has $60M remaining on his contract. I'm sure Love would take a buyout for $55M, because he could make it up with vet min contracts over the next two years. But why would the Cavs have any incentive to do that? The Love situation is not quite as bad as the John Wall situation, because the contract amount is smaller. The Cavs might actually be able to trade him without adding draft picks and taking back bad contracts.

In fact, you've got it sort of backwards. You're imagining a scenario in which the Cavs would do something for the sole purpose of helping the Lakers, then assuming that the rest of the league is trying to save them from themselves.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:32 am    Post subject:

vasashi17+ wrote:

I would just like the FO to start constructing some future potential assets, cause nearly every year, other our stars, it has been almost entire roster overhauls on shortterm stopgap deals (which just encourage future roster overhauls the following year).


I see what you're saying. I think that's easier said than done, since we gave against virtually all our assets to construct the team and then have to fill in the rest with whoever we can get to take the minimum.

There is also the pesky luxury tax, which caused us to let Caruso go.

As long as we have Lebron, Westbrook and AD, we will be a team of the stars and the merry minimums

I don't see the Exum model as one we can realistically use to build assets. It's more of an interesting quirk in the CBA than a viable strategy, to me.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:41 am    Post subject:

vasashi17+ wrote:
Not really disputing your take, but the bright lights of LA could help re-establish the size of their future potential bags. I’m sure that’s what Nunn and Monk are hoping for.


You may be right, but I'm not sure why players and agents would think that this is true. It might have been true 20+ years ago, but we now live in the age of analytics. Can you think of a player who benefited financially from playing in the glamour of Hollywood (in the sense of significantly enhancing his value in free agency)? Nobody jumps to mind for me, at least not in recent years. But again, you may very well be right. They may be hoping that the Lakers will win a ring and that the halo effect will turn into dollars.

Anyway, Monk is the sort of young reclamation project that you were talking about. He hasn't been as much of a bust as Exum, but he has still been a bust. If we can get something out of him this year, it would be great. If we don't, he's probably on his way to Europe or China.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:01 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
vasashi17+ wrote:

I would just like the FO to start constructing some future potential assets, cause nearly every year, other our stars, it has been almost entire roster overhauls on shortterm stopgap deals (which just encourage future roster overhauls the following year).


There is also the pesky luxury tax, which caused us to let Caruso go.

As long as we have Lebron, Westbrook and AD, we will be a team of the stars and the merry minimums


Yeah, it’s not my money, but if the rumors are true and the Lakers were okay at retaining AC at 7m per instead, they could have further laced up that baseline deal to get AC as much as 8.1m per (max of 15% of base salary in unlikely incentives). Maybe that encourages him to stay and we hold into an asset as well. Give him a multi year deal that only holds partial guarantees to where it’s only a guaranteed 3yr/30m deal where a good chunk of the guaranteed money is tacked on in the latter years. There were so many ways we could have written up his deal since we had his full bird rights.

Quote:
He was willing to go back there at three years and $30 million, he actually gave them that option, even at the end — it’s less than what he signed for in Chicago — but even that was more than they were willing to pay… That was as far as they were willing to go. They looked at Caruso and said ‘we can go to $7 million a year, but above that it gets too cost-prohibitive.’”


We had avenues to get it where it wasn’t just Bron/Russ/AD & the merry minimums. The FO just chose it wasn’t worth fumbling over their checkbook for.

Anyways, here’s to hoping we win a title so that Nunn/Monk decide to re-up with us to stay on and maybe in gaining their early bird rights, we can convince them to take longer deals to retain them as assets.

Moving on, here’s some Ennis, Av, Wes & Love talk by the dudes at hoopshype...
Quote:
Assuming they leave one open spot for the buyout market, who should the Lakers sign for the remaining roster spot? What names have you heard linked to the Lakers?

Scotto: As I previously reported on the HoopsHype podcast, James Ennis has drawn interest from the Lakers. For Ennis, I think it comes down to whether the team will give him some guaranteed money at this point on the open market or not.

Gozlan: I’d get one more wing. Ennis, Wes Matthews, or Avery Bradley… I could see them potentially holding out for Kevin Love or John Wall to get a buyout, so I’m sure whoever they sign gets a non-guaranteed contract just in case.

Scotto: Kevin Love hasn’t garnered much trade interest on the market, and he’s owed a lot of money. With Lauri Markkanen in the fold, along with Jarrett Allen and Evan Mobley, it’s clear the Cavaliers are heading towards a younger frontcourt. I don’t think Love will be happy in Cleveland with a reduced role. He’ll have to decide if he wants to sacrifice money for a better opportunity to play elsewhere, similar to what Blake Griffin did with Detroit before reviving his career in Brooklyn. If Love agrees to a buyout, I can see the Lakers making a run at him given his relationship with Russell Westbrook and connection to UCLA.

https://hoopshype.com/lists/podcast-lakers-celtics-kevin-love-tj-warren-eric-gordon-robert-convington/

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:10 am    Post subject:

Harlemlakerfan wrote:
Does anyone else feel like the Cavs will not buyout Klove, as long as the Lakers have that open roster spot? It would not surprise me if teams around the league have advised Cleveland to not buyout Klove, because the Lakers are waiting to scoop him up and him going there is not a good look. No need to help them out.


I don’t think that the Lakers factor into Cleveland’s decision making. They likely won’t buy out Love because it makes no sense to do so.
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vasashi17+
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:13 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
vasashi17+ wrote:
Not really disputing your take, but the bright lights of LA could help re-establish the size of their future potential bags. I’m sure that’s what Nunn and Monk are hoping for.


You may be right, but I'm not sure why players and agents would think that this is true. It might have been true 20+ years ago, but we now live in the age of analytics. Can you think of a player who benefited financially from playing in the glamour of Hollywood (in the sense of significantly enhancing his value in free agency)? Nobody jumps to mind for me, at least not in recent years. But again, you may very well be right. They may be hoping that the Lakers will win a ring and that the halo effect will turn into dollars.

Anyway, Monk is the sort of young reclamation project that you were talking about. He hasn't been as much of a bust as Exum, but he has still been a bust. If we can get something out of him this year, it would be great. If we don't, he's probably on his way to Europe or China.


I think you’re right when it comes to the opposite effect of the bright lights actually burning our ex players.... especially recently. See Schro, Drummond, Wes, Waiters, AvBrad, Cook, McLemore, McKinnie, etc. But our young boys like AC, BI, Zo, Jules, JC, Nance, Hart, Zu, DLo have all gotten that bag too.

In terms of Monk, we didn’t really have the resources/leverage, but I would have liked to see if we could have gotten him on a multi-year deal sans a PO. Same with Nunn.

Either way, it is what it is, but I been beating this drum...we need to be better with asset management. Some fans are obviously keeping their purple-tinted shades on, but they need to see that our handling of assets is a valid concern/criticism of our FO, rather than some opportunity to shade them.

Btw, Okafor to ATL...

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Shams: Free agent center Jahlil Okafor is signing a non-guaranteed deal with the Atlanta Hawks, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:49 am    Post subject:

Gozlan: I’d get one more wing. Ennis, Wes Matthews, or Avery Bradley… I could see them potentially holding out for Kevin Love or John Wall to get a buyout, so I’m sure whoever they sign gets a non-guaranteed contract just in case.

Scotto: Kevin Love hasn’t garnered much trade interest on the market, and he’s owed a lot of money. With Lauri Markkanen in the fold, along with Jarrett Allen and Evan Mobley, it’s clear the Cavaliers are heading towards a younger frontcourt. I don’t think Love will be happy in Cleveland with a reduced role. He’ll have to decide if he wants to sacrifice money for a better opportunity to play elsewhere, similar to what Blake Griffin did with Detroit before reviving his career in Brooklyn. If Love agrees to a buyout, I can see the Lakers making a run at him given his relationship with Russell Westbrook and connection to UCLA.



Keep seeing and hearing we need to leave an open roster spot for potential buy out.

We have two open spots at this time so we could still sign a wing and have another open spot.
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