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vanexelent
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 Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2019/09/30/jury-consider-castle-doctrine-amber-guyger-murder-trial/
| Quote: | | Judge Rules Jury Can Consider Castle Doctrine In Amber Guyger Murder Trial |
How the hell can they even apply this to this case? |
I guess the argument would be that she was acting under a mistake of fact and believed it was her “castle.” I don’t think it will make a difference. |
But she was in committing an illegal act by entering his home (castle), no? Regardless of her mind set, the reality is different. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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| hate to be that guy, but I have not followed the trial closely....what is the narrative put forward by the prosecution? |
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ContagiousInspiration
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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| vanexelent wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2019/09/30/jury-consider-castle-doctrine-amber-guyger-murder-trial/
| Quote: | | Judge Rules Jury Can Consider Castle Doctrine In Amber Guyger Murder Trial |
How the hell can they even apply this to this case? |
I guess the argument would be that she was acting under a mistake of fact and believed it was her “castle.” I don’t think it will make a difference. |
But she was in committing an illegal act by entering his home (castle), no? Regardless of her mind set, the reality is different. |
Where is her drug test by the way They were sure quick to allege he had marijuana in his home
Now cops can walk into your home while you are high watching football and eating ice cream and put bullets through you
I think Castle doctrine should also pertain to any movements he made inside his own home to defend himself .. Like her saying he made a movement so she murdered him
Zero surveillance video of his door I guess
When she first killed him there was a witness who said they heard knocking and him after he was shot..
| Quote: | During a Monday [09.11.18]morning press conference, an attorney claimed that neighbors of 26-year-old Botham Jean—who was shot in his apartment by an off-duty Dallas cop—disputed Officer Amber Guyger’s account of the incident. “They heard knocking down the hallway followed by a woman’s voice that they believe to be officer Guyger saying, ‘Let me in. Let me in,’” Lee Merritt, an attorney for Jean’s family, said. One of the neighbors then heard gunshots and a man’s voice, he said. “What we believe to be the last words of Botham Jean which was ‘Oh my god, why did you do that?’”
https://www.thedailybeast.com/attorney-neighbors-dispute-dallas-cops-account-of-botham-jeans-death
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ContagiousInspiration
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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The guy she was texting Must go on the stand to face questions
every question about anything she ever said before about her neighbor
Her violent social media history
Sexting
Lying about being exhausted because of her job--she was exchanging nudes with her police partner up to the point she entered Jeans apartment
This data .. where is it.. Could show whether she put her key in the lock or not.. and if not why not etc..
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime/2018/09/18/could-data-from-botham-jean-s-door-lock-deliver-a-break-in-amber-guyger-case-dallas-da-hopes-so/
This trial had better keep going.. this (bleep) is getting Fugleeee!
>>>>>>>>>>This actually helps Guyger when looked at logically and not thinking they could have planned the murder.. highly doubtful..
>>>This
| Quote: | | But prosecutors entered into evidence a Snapchat message Guyger sent Rivera just before the shooting that read “Wanna touch?” and told the jury Guyger was not too tired to invite Rivera to come over once she’d arrived back home. The two sent explicit photos back and forth ahead of the planned meeting, according to prosecutors, and immediately following the shooting, Guyger texted Rivera, “Hurry I need you. I (bleep) up.” |
She was heading home to her house hoping to get her cop partner in her bed for some sex. Doubtful she would just change her brain and decide she wanted to kill Jean before going home.
She was terribly distracted
Is potentially of a lower iq
Actually (bleep) up
Manslaughter no less than 5 years
*Unless her partner and her thought this plan up but it doesn't look that way |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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This was a police officer. Supposedly trained to handle these situations. Scary. Yes she was tired. But still.
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adkindo
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | This was a police officer. Supposedly trained to handle these situations. Scary. Yes she was tired. But still. |
I assume she will be held responsible for the death, but nobody is suggesting that she planned this, correct? As crazy as her story seems, has there been any other explanation put forward that is logical with evidence? |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | This was a police officer. Supposedly trained to handle these situations. Scary. Yes she was tired. But still. |
I assume she will be held responsible for the death, but nobody is suggesting that she planned this, correct? As crazy as her story seems, has there been any other explanation put forward that is logical with evidence? |
I don’t think it was intentional as in she wanted to kill him bc of something in the past.
My point is it’s unbelievably criminally reckless and negligent. And how many other officers lack the training and other character to be a good cop?
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adkindo
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | This was a police officer. Supposedly trained to handle these situations. Scary. Yes she was tired. But still. |
I assume she will be held responsible for the death, but nobody is suggesting that she planned this, correct? As crazy as her story seems, has there been any other explanation put forward that is logical with evidence? |
I don’t think it was intentional as in she wanted to kill him bc of something in the past.
My point is it’s unbelievably criminally reckless and negligent. And how many other officers lack the training and other character to be a good cop? |
ok, yeah, I never got the story. I kept waiting on some facts to be released that would make it all make a little sense.....guess that never happened. Like I said, I have not been into the details of the trial, but it would appear she is clearly at fault and her actions resulted in a death. Do not really see a path to acquittal. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2019/09/30/jury-consider-castle-doctrine-amber-guyger-murder-trial/
| Quote: | | Judge Rules Jury Can Consider Castle Doctrine In Amber Guyger Murder Trial |
How the hell can they even apply this to this case? |
I guess the argument would be that she was acting under a mistake of fact and believed it was her “castle.” I don’t think it will make a difference. |
"Your honor, I know the evidence says I was drunk at the time of the accident, but I was acting under the mistaken belief that I was sober. I was sure I was drinking grape juice and not wine."
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | This was a police officer. Supposedly trained to handle these situations. Scary. Yes she was tired. But still. |
I assume she will be held responsible for the death, but nobody is suggesting that she planned this, correct? As crazy as her story seems, has there been any other explanation put forward that is logical with evidence? |
I don’t think it was intentional as in she wanted to kill him bc of something in the past.
My point is it’s unbelievably criminally reckless and negligent. And how many other officers lack the training and other character to be a good cop? |
The crazy thing is that if the average citizen killed a neighbor in their own home while claiming one had mistakenly walked into the wrong house and not recognized that, it'd be laughed at and wouldn't given a shred of credibility.
But because this woman is a cop - who above anyone else should be able to avoid this event by properly addressing the facts of the situation in the heat of the moment before using deadly force - there are those who think she is somehow a victim of circumstance (that's not directed at anyone here - just a general observation based on watching this play out overall).
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You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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dood23
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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if she gets off scot free then we can basically throw the book out the window 
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:19 am Post subject: |
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| vanexelent wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2019/09/30/jury-consider-castle-doctrine-amber-guyger-murder-trial/
| Quote: | | Judge Rules Jury Can Consider Castle Doctrine In Amber Guyger Murder Trial |
How the hell can they even apply this to this case? |
I guess the argument would be that she was acting under a mistake of fact and believed it was her “castle.” I don’t think it will make a difference. |
But she was in committing an illegal act by entering his home (castle), no? Regardless of her mind set, the reality is different. |
The self defense laws were not written with this scenario in mind. There is an ongoing debate among criminal lawyers about whether this bars a claim of self defense. Basically, the defendant is engrafting a mistake of fact defense onto a self defense claim. I don't think that the case will actually turn on an esoteric legal argument, but I guess you never know. |
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governator
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:20 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2019/09/30/jury-consider-castle-doctrine-amber-guyger-murder-trial/
| Quote: | | Judge Rules Jury Can Consider Castle Doctrine In Amber Guyger Murder Trial |
How the hell can they even apply this to this case? |
I guess the argument would be that she was acting under a mistake of fact and believed it was her “castle.” I don’t think it will make a difference. |
But she was in committing an illegal act by entering his home (castle), no? Regardless of her mind set, the reality is different. |
The self defense laws were not written with this scenario in mind. There is an ongoing debate among criminal lawyers about whether this bars a claim of self defense. Basically, the defendant is engrafting a mistake of fact defense onto a self defense claim. I don't think that the case will actually turn on an esoteric legal argument, but I guess you never know. |
sound stand your ground ish, if I fear for my life then it's justified defense |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:44 am Post subject: |
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| dood23 wrote: | | if she gets off scot free then we can basically throw the book out the window |
would probably lead to many things thrown through windows.... many with a flame attached
Last edited by adkindo on Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:43 am; edited 1 time in total |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:48 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2019/09/30/jury-consider-castle-doctrine-amber-guyger-murder-trial/
| Quote: | | Judge Rules Jury Can Consider Castle Doctrine In Amber Guyger Murder Trial |
How the hell can they even apply this to this case? |
I guess the argument would be that she was acting under a mistake of fact and believed it was her “castle.” I don’t think it will make a difference. |
But she was in committing an illegal act by entering his home (castle), no? Regardless of her mind set, the reality is different. |
The self defense laws were not written with this scenario in mind. There is an ongoing debate among criminal lawyers about whether this bars a claim of self defense. Basically, the defendant is engrafting a mistake of fact defense onto a self defense claim. I don't think that the case will actually turn on an esoteric legal argument, but I guess you never know. |
sound stand your ground ish, if I fear for my life then it's justified defense |
do not think stand your ground would fly in this case. Not an attorney, bit I do not think one can voluntarily place themselves in danger which would be anytime you enter a property uninvited.....then claim a stand ytour ground defense. |
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governator
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:11 am Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | governator wrote: |
sound stand your ground ish, if I fear for my life then it's justified defense |
do not think stand your ground would fly in this case. Not an attorney, bit I do not think one can voluntarily place themselves in danger which would be anytime you enter a property uninvited.....then claim a stand ytour ground defense. |
I meant this law is similar in application to stand your ground law, no proof needed |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:45 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | governator wrote: |
sound stand your ground ish, if I fear for my life then it's justified defense |
do not think stand your ground would fly in this case. Not an attorney, bit I do not think one can voluntarily place themselves in danger which would be anytime you enter a property uninvited.....then claim a stand ytour ground defense. |
I meant this law is similar in application to stand your ground law, no proof needed |
I think it is fair to say that in any case based on a version of self defense, evidence and proof to suggest otherwise would fall on the prosecution. In Florida at least....not sure about other states, a defendant hoping to use the Stand Your Ground law as a defense does bear the burden of proving the case meets the requirements before trial even begins. Stand Your Ground simply eliminates the requirement to retreat. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:23 am Post subject: |
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Manslaughter seems fair to me in this case. Admittedly I don’t know all the details. It would take some very convincing evidence for me to say murder. And total innocence is completely out of the picture.
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adkindo
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | Manslaughter seems fair to me in this case. Admittedly I don’t know all the details. It would take some very convincing evidence for me to say murder. And total innocence is completely out of the picture. |
what options were given to the jury? |
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Huskers
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:57 am Post subject: |
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| Jury says she is guilty of murder |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:57 am Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | Manslaughter seems fair to me in this case. Admittedly I don’t know all the details. It would take some very convincing evidence for me to say murder. And total innocence is completely out of the picture. |
what options were given to the jury? |
Murder, manslaughter, innocent.
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adkindo
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| Guilty....Murder....details coming |
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Dr. Laker
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:07 am Post subject: |
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Only reason she didn't plead to manslaughter was because the victim was black. Her defense team rolled the dice in Texas hoping for jury nullification, thinking a blond, white, female cop wouldn't get murder for killing a black male with weed in his house.
This time, it came up snake eyes, but beware an appeal.
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adkindo
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:11 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | Only reason she didn't plead to manslaughter was because the victim was black. Her defense team rolled the dice in Texas hoping for jury nullification, thinking a blond, white, female cop wouldn't get murder for killing a black male with weed in his house.
This time, it came up snake eyes, but beware an appeal. |
was it reported that she was offered a plea deal? |
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Dr. Laker
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | Only reason she didn't plead to manslaughter was because the victim was black. Her defense team rolled the dice in Texas hoping for jury nullification, thinking a blond, white, female cop wouldn't get murder for killing a black male with weed in his house.
This time, it came up snake eyes, but beware an appeal. |
was it reported that she was offered a plea deal? |
It was reported she didn't want one. I'll look for a link - in the meantime, I recall hearing this all over the place:
https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/what-are-the-odds-amber-guyger-is-convicted-of-murder-one-attorney-says-not-good/287-619220942
| Quote: | Former cop and attorney Pete Schulte said he expects Guyger’s attorneys to not go after a plea deal, file for a change of venue and set the case for a jury trial.
“I would be shocked to see her attorneys go after a plea deal,” Schulte said. “This is going to trial, and Guyger will want to have her day in court.”
. . .
The odds of a conviction, he said, go down if the case is granted a change of venue. “It’s going to be hard to get a conviction in Dallas County, but even harder to get a conviction in a neighboring county that’s more conservative If they get a change of venue,” Schulte said. |
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