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kfkilla
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 Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:09 am Post subject: |
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I have a simple question. Why did we dump Lue? At the time it was supposedly to get super cool max contracts. Also that he was older and he didn’t match the timeline of the Lakers youth. Dude has balled while he was here and ever since he’s been gone. Not to mention he would be incredible next to Lebron.
Another Bad move by Magic and his poorly thought out vision? |
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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Joined: 18 Jul 2014
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:14 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | Clippers are closing the gap. |
I don't think so. This is a micro view of a macro analysis.
I do agree that they have won much more than us in the past 6 years.
Ironically though, Lakers are tackling a micro problem with a macro "Lakers Exceptionalism" solution.
There is a possibility that things just fall in favor for the Lakers and they end up with KL for example. But we are still handling things as though it's 1985. That things will basically correct their way via fate. |
I said closing the gap, not surpassing. At least not yet. But perception is trending in their favor. Lakers will always have a huge loyal following but for how long?
Laker exceptionalism can only be celebrated when they win. Continued underachieving and dysfunction undermines that perception.
Clippers have gained popularity from the depths they were in for decades. No where to go but up! They have improved their reputation and give the impression of stability in the front office and HC. Even Balmer's antics are not ridiculed the same as they were when he bought the team.
Clippers are just as likely to sign a marquee free agent (or two?) as the Lakers. What happens to the perception if they do and the Lakers are relying on second tier signings and James? Especially if he plays more like he did this year then the inspired GOAT that many are assuming is still there.
It kills me to say it or give anything but disdain to the Clippers. It is a habit of almost 50 years. But I will give them some respect for "closing the gap". Doubt they ever surpass the Lakers but it is a lot more realistic then I ever would have thought possible. A couple signings either way could sway popular opinion for the next five years. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:20 am Post subject: |
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If a franchise's history is like the Tour De France, it's like saying that the Clips are going to win one stage of the race (while the Lakers are hopelessly ahead).
It'll take more than the current "run" and even if they somehow get 2 max FAs, then the expectations go from "oh you made the playoffs" to "why aren't they winning any championships?" In that sense, Clips are hopelessly behind.
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SGV-Laker fan
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Joined: 23 May 2013
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| a hands off type of owner with unlimited resources and hires the best basketball people, now compare that to our mom and pop mentality ownership. |
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Sentient Meat
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Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:31 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | If a franchise's history is like the Tour De France, it's like saying that the Clips are going to win one stage of the race (while the Lakers are hopelessly ahead).
It'll take more than the current "run" and even if they somehow get 2 max FAs, then the expectations go from "oh you made the playoffs" to "why aren't they winning any championships?" In that sense, Clips are hopelessly behind. |
No that's a flawed analogy because there's no official award for most franchise titles.
It's an informal thing that's fun to point out like the Celtics/Lakers rivalry but the goal is winning the season... unlike a stage in the Tour de France where there is no reward except wearing a yellow jersey for awhile.
Manchester United hasn't won a title in six years... and now Manchester City and Liverpool are considered the elite premier league teams.
No one fears them any more.
No one fears the Cowboys any more... it's all about the Patriots.
I agree that we do have a lot of good will and equity built up... but unlike the Spurs which still have a winning culture... we are not close and it's not because of the talent... (because I believe we are capable of winning with better management and coaching)... it's because one very powerful inmate is running the asylum.
People have faith in the Dodgers even though we haven't won since 88 because they have good management.
We need to have a firm hand at the rudder or we can very quickly descend into irrelevancy. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | If a franchise's history is like the Tour De France, it's like saying that the Clips are going to win one stage of the race (while the Lakers are hopelessly ahead).
It'll take more than the current "run" and even if they somehow get 2 max FAs, then the expectations go from "oh you made the playoffs" to "why aren't they winning any championships?" In that sense, Clips are hopelessly behind. |
No that's a flawed analogy because there's no official award for most franchise titles.
It's an informal thing that's fun to point out like the Celtics/Lakers rivalry but the goal is winning the season... unlike a stage in the Tour de France where there is no reward except wearing a yellow jersey for awhile.
Manchester United hasn't won a title in six years... and now Manchester City and Liverpool are considered the elite premier league teams.
No one fears them any more.
No one fears the Cowboys any more... it's all about the Patriots.
I agree that we do have a lot of good will and equity built up... but unlike the Spurs which still have a winning culture... we are not close and it's not because of the talent... (because I believe we are capable of winning with better management and coaching)... it's because one very powerful inmate is running the asylum.
People have faith in the Dodgers even though we haven't won since 88 because they have good management.
We need to have a firm hand at the rudder or we can very quickly descend into irrelevancy. |
It's not a flawed analogy b/c TEAMS tout past success. Fans, especially legacy based ones, do care about. Why do you see the Celts touting their 17 banners (most of which were won in the 1960s)? Or the Bulls fans with MJ and 6 rings?
Clips are absolutely beating us this stage of the Tour De France. But to say they're going to win the whole franchise race? They better start winning some banners quickly.
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55
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Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 12092
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:40 am Post subject: Re: What the Lakers can learn from the Clippers |
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| troy wrote: | 1. Play hard. Play hard. Play hard.
2. Be aggressive. Lakers need someone out there with an attitude. I love Pat Beverly and wish the Lakers had him on this team.
3. Be smart. The Clippers are one of the smartest teams in the NBA.
4. Be consistent. Sweet Lou Williams is consistent in his offensive flow, not prone to long stretches where he's not mentally in the game.
5. You don't need the homerun. Be smart with your passes (Laker had way too many turnovers).
6. Don't panic, and stay within your offensive scheme.
7. Stay locked in on defense on EVERY play, not just for stretches.
8. Be hardnosed with your coaching. Get emotional out there, don't always try to be the players best friend.
9. Believe in yourselves. Don't get caught up in drama.
10. You don't need a superstar on your team to WIN...you just need heart.
Other notes
* I think the trade of Zubac is making sense. Zu looks absolutely lost out there; poor footwork, no offensive game, no defense, clumsy, fumbling, 100% a non-contributor.
* The Clippers, assuming they keep their key players (Lou, Bev, a few more) are absolutely an attractive team to go to as a free agent.
* Cousins is washed up. No way he gets nothing more next season than the vet minimum.
* I hate to say it, but I've become a fan of the Clippers. I guess I was in denial, but I'm sold. I love their game; hard-nosed, aggressive, smart play. I love Doc Rivers, and I love Sweet Lou and Bev. I wish we had those guys on our Lakers. |
11. Learn how to shoot with the ball actually going through the basket. |
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trablos
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Joined: 10 May 2017
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| It be a lot easier to stay within your offensive schemes if you actually had any lol |
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lakersken80
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Joined: 12 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:50 am Post subject: |
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| kfkilla wrote: | I have a simple question. Why did we dump Lue? At the time it was supposedly to get super cool max contracts. Also that he was older and he didn’t match the timeline of the Lakers youth. Dude has balled while he was here and ever since he’s been gone. Not to mention he would be incredible next to Lebron.
Another Bad move by Magic and his poorly thought out vision? |
He was taking away minutes from players we wanted to develop. There is no doubt he would've had a major role in our current roster but remember this was before we got Lebron and weren't even thinking about playoffs. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:54 am Post subject: |
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Lou was surprisingly a good signing. But our problem was the 4/96 minutes issue. We had DLO/JC who needed playing time while we also had Swaggy/Lou.
So to please everyone, Luke just divided the 96 minutes at guard by 4 basically. It did no one justice.
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The Lebrons
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Joined: 30 Mar 2009
Posts: 4778
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:18 am Post subject: |
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1. Ballmer runs circles around Jeannie in every way.
Everything else is a result of this. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| The Lebrons wrote: | 1. Ballmer runs circles around Jeannie in every way.
Everything else is a result of this. |
Having billions to spend on a team for fun puts him in a financial position where he can do whatever he wants. Hire the most expensive FO/coaching while the Lakers may penny pinch on that end.
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epak
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| Thing to learn from the Clippers: Make the playoffs as an 8th seed and win one game against the GSW and have some Lakers fans go hyperbole mode on how great the Clippers are. |
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Fracture
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Location: Planet Terror
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| Clippers don't have Jeanie Buss running them into the ground right now |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| There are things we can learn from every team. The Clippers are no exception. |
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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Joined: 18 Jul 2014
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:06 am Post subject: |
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Some of you can be so insecure.
It is ok to say positive things about others without having to deal with the over the top rhetoric. Clippers are doing some things right while the Lakers aren’t.
They will never pass the legacy of the Lakers! But they deserve some respect for what they are accomplishing in recent years. We’ll see what happens this off-season to reverse it. Lakers have work to do in changing the narrative. |
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PayasoLoco
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Joined: 07 Jul 2001
Posts: 16663
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| Ballmer making Jeanie/Linda/Rob look stupider than they already are. Ones a billionaire CEO while the others have had everything handed to them |
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trablos
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Joined: 10 May 2017
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| PayasoLoco wrote: | | Ballmer making Jeanie/Linda/Rob look stupider than they already are. Ones a billionaire CEO while the others have had everything handed to them |
lol perception is everything my man..everyone thinks Ballmer is some prophetic NBA genius owner since he came from the tech world, but the Clips have done absolutely nothing significant. In fact they've actually followed our blueprint of building around young guys and star hunting.
Besides all the hyperbole, they definitely deserve respect for fighting for every possession and playing together. We had flashes of that this season but just couldn't maintain. |
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PayasoLoco
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Joined: 07 Jul 2001
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:22 am Post subject: |
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| trablos wrote: | | PayasoLoco wrote: | | Ballmer making Jeanie/Linda/Rob look stupider than they already are. Ones a billionaire CEO while the others have had everything handed to them |
lol perception is everything my man..everyone thinks Ballmer is some prophetic NBA genius owner since he came from the tech world, but the Clips have done absolutely nothing significant. In fact they've actually followed our blueprint of building around young guys and star hunting.
Besides all the hyperbole, they definitely deserve respect for fighting for every possession and playing together. We had flashes of that this season but just couldn't maintain. |
He is smart enough to know you hire the best to help run the franchise and stay back. Lakers keep make same mistake year after year with terrible FO and coaching changes. These led to horrible FO moves which we are now feeling the effects. Basically the mom and pop show is a running joke in the sports world |
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trablos
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| PayasoLoco wrote: | | trablos wrote: | | PayasoLoco wrote: | | Ballmer making Jeanie/Linda/Rob look stupider than they already are. Ones a billionaire CEO while the others have had everything handed to them |
lol perception is everything my man..everyone thinks Ballmer is some prophetic NBA genius owner since he came from the tech world, but the Clips have done absolutely nothing significant. In fact they've actually followed our blueprint of building around young guys and star hunting.
Besides all the hyperbole, they definitely deserve respect for fighting for every possession and playing together. We had flashes of that this season but just couldn't maintain. |
He is smart enough to know you hire the best to help run the franchise and stay back. Lakers keep make same mistake year after year with terrible FO and coaching changes. These led to horrible FO moves which we are now feeling the effects. Basically the mom and pop show is a running joke in the sports world |
Only in this echo chamber called LG..
It's so unfair to sum up our last 6 years as an indicator of a failing franchise, a lot of major events occurred that were out of our control (CP3 trade, Achilles, Dwightmare, Injuries, Magic quitting), and some were self inflicted (MozDeng, losing Brook and Randle), but we are finally headed in the right direction with a superstar and great young players and cap space. So we haven't been making the same mistakes, but just reacting to previous mistakes and blunders to climb out of the position we were in.
My point still stands, all the credit in the world to Ballmer and the Clips, but they really aren't doing anything different than we are. Cuban might be the best owner in sports and even his team has had some down years since the decline of his most recent superstar. There's a lot more nuance that lead to where we are now than just looking at the post-achilles Lakers and blaming the FO. |
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markjay
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Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 3926
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:31 am Post subject: |
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I wouldn't call myself a fan of the Clippers, but they have gone from a team that I despise to a team that I feel neutral about or even like a bit. This is not a sudden thing, but has gone on over years.
1. No more Donald Sterling
2. No more Chris Paul or Blake Griffin
3. Adding players I like, such as Lou Williams and Zubac
4. Playing smart hard team basketball
5. Having a good direction as a franchise.
So, no, I will never root for them over the Lakers or the same as the Lakers, but I am rooting for them over the Warriors. |
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matrixskillz
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Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 7502
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:31 am Post subject: |
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Humility
Work ethic
Common sense
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We only celebrate championships.
"I GOT WHEATIES!" |
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troy
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Joined: 30 Jan 2013
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | Lakers better learn from them. They have been the team slowly gaining a positive reputation and winning over fans. They land a marquee free agent and continue to win they will continue to build on that trend. They might even start gaining some bandwagon fans to their loyal base.
Lakers relying on the banners and headlines is getting old. Especially to transplants or the fickle majority of NBA fans. You realize that a graduating high school student was in grade school the last time they were in the playoffs.
Clippers are playing a tough hard working style that may help in the recruitment of that marquee FA. That chemistry and enthusiasm is an appealing option. Making "history" last night, even if they lose the series. They are in the headlines for the right reasons.
While the Lakers franchise is dysfunctional. It has instability at ownership, FO and a coaching staff merry go round. Roster is unstable and has horrible chemistry because of all the one year contracts, the potential trades and the reliance on an aging mega star that has a history of taking all the oxygen out of the room in a good year.
Clippers are closing the gap. Still behind but Lakers need to get this mess fixed this off-season. It will only take a couple of signings to go the wrong way and the gap may close even more over the next couple years if the Clippers provide a future and the Lakers underachieve again and again. |
Very well stated. |
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epak
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Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:37 am Post subject: |
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| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | Some of you can be so insecure.
It is ok to say positive things about others without having to deal with the over the top rhetoric. Clippers are doing some things right while the Lakers aren’t.
They will never pass the legacy of the Lakers! But they deserve some respect for what they are accomplishing in recent years. We’ll see what happens this off-season to reverse it. Lakers have work to do in changing the narrative. |
Well I mean.
Your username says it all  |
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Username
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Joined: 22 Apr 2004
Posts: 4718
Location: Out There
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:41 am Post subject: |
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The Clippers have gotten extremely lucky in many ways.
Lou Williams and Danilo Gallinari are both playing the best basketball of their careers in their age 30 and 32 seasons. To act like this was all part of some grand master plan is laughable. The Clippers are fortunate that Gallinari, a career 37% shooter from 3, is hitting at an insane 43% clip this season.
What should the Lakers learn from the fact that the Clippers were able to build a good portion of this 8th seeded team off the backs of the value they received from trading two franchise max players (Chris Paul and Blake Griffin)? That alone gave the Clippers a head start on asset acquisition that this Lakers front office simply did not have so I'm not really sure what comparison you can make to what the Clippers have done, versus what the Lakers have done.
The Clippers are just following the model we already set forth - chasing stars. Make no mistake, this playoff trip was an accident. They acquired Tobias Harris in the Blake trade, and trading Tobias was - for all intents and purposes - waiving the white flag on this season. It's really no different than us trading Lou Williams. We traded Lou because we weren't trying to contend, and were trying to maneuver for the future. It's the same reason the Clippers traded Tobias. It just so happens they got excellent play from guys like Danilo and Lou to keep them afloat.
Both teams started in drastically different spots, but ironically, are just about in the same place heading into the summer. In the NBA, you're either a title contender, or you're not. There's no relevance to being stuck in between. |
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