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mad55557777
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 Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Did we overpay now? Lol |
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LakerLogic
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Joined: 27 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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| mad55557777 wrote: | | Did we overpay now? Lol |
We still could have negotiated better. AD being this good doesn't change that fact. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerLogic wrote: | | mad55557777 wrote: | | Did we overpay now? Lol |
We still could have negotiated better. AD being this good doesn't change that fact. |
Maybe got a second round pick back or something I guess. |
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LakerLogic
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| Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | | mad55557777 wrote: | | Did we overpay now? Lol |
We still could have negotiated better. AD being this good doesn't change that fact. |
Maybe got a second round pick back or something I guess. |
Keep one of those first round picks that might be useful post-LBJ. |
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Dr. Laker
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Joined: 12 Apr 2002
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| Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerLogic wrote: | | mad55557777 wrote: | | Did we overpay now? Lol |
We still could have negotiated better. AD being this good doesn't change that fact. |
What would've been a better deal that NO would've accepted?
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2019
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Posts: 10894
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| Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerLogic wrote: | | mad55557777 wrote: | | Did we overpay now? Lol |
We still could have negotiated better. AD being this good doesn't change that fact. |
We went from offering Ingram, Lonzo, Hart, Kuzma, Zubac, KCP, 3 1sts in February to keeping Kuzma and Zubac wasn't included (obv he's wasn't on our roster) but I would say we did a decent job in negotiating. Magic set the value bar incredibly high. Rob was able to negotiate Kuzma out of the deal.
AD was worth every penny we gave up. Would have loved to hang onto Hart too but we're 20-3, made a fair deal and things for NO are working out. |
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mad55557777
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Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 23619
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| Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| 2019 wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | | mad55557777 wrote: | | Did we overpay now? Lol |
We still could have negotiated better. AD being this good doesn't change that fact. |
We went from offering Ingram, Lonzo, Hart, Kuzma, Zubac, KCP, 3 1sts in February to keeping Kuzma and Zubac wasn't included (obv he's wasn't on our roster) but I would say we did a decent job in negotiating. Magic set the value bar incredibly high. Rob was able to negotiate Kuzma out of the deal.
AD was worth every penny we gave up. Would have loved to hang onto Hart too but we're 20-3, made a fair deal and things for NO are working out. |
The number 4 pick helped |
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pjiddy
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Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 29161
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:20 am Post subject: |
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| 2019 wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | | mad55557777 wrote: | | Did we overpay now? Lol |
We still could have negotiated better. AD being this good doesn't change that fact. |
We went from offering Ingram, Lonzo, Hart, Kuzma, Zubac, KCP, 3 1sts in February to keeping Kuzma and Zubac wasn't included (obv he's wasn't on our roster) but I would say we did a decent job in negotiating. Magic set the value bar incredibly high. Rob was able to negotiate Kuzma out of the deal.
AD was worth every penny we gave up. Would have loved to hang onto Hart too but we're 20-3, made a fair deal and things for NO are working out. |
Well we didn't have the #4 pick when that original offer was made. It was projecting mid to late lotto pick. And Magic notoriously refused to offer too many future picks, which we ended up doing. So in terms of value, we basically gave up the same if not more. |
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Gandalf
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
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Location: Mission Viejo, CA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:25 am Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | Gandalf wrote: | | AD is a gotdang 7-foot Jamaal Wilkes. |
I didn't watch any of Jamaal. Could he defend like AD? |
Silk defended like a 6'6" AD.
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drae
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Dr. Laker
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Joined: 12 Apr 2002
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:29 am Post subject: |
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20-3.
@DEN - W
@UTA - W
@POR - W
👀👀👀
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manlisten
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Joined: 09 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:28 am Post subject: |
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The Lakers were able to immediately replace the production of Lonzo and Hart while upgrading from Ingram to Davis. The #4 was basically a sweetener and the swaps will likely prove to be inconsequential. I'm more than happy with the trade.
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It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
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miggz23
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:40 am Post subject: |
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| manlisten wrote: | | The Lakers were able to immediately replace the production of Lonzo and Hart while upgrading from Ingram to Davis. The #4 was basically a sweetener and the swaps will likely prove to be inconsequential. I'm more than happy with the trade. |
AD probably equals 2-3 of those guys production alone. Which is already huge, cause you are able to add a couple extra guys basically for nothing. |
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governator
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25196
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:34 am Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | epak wrote: | BEAST!!!!
So refreshing to see 2 Lakers each score 30+ in a game |
Kobe and Shaq vibes |
No doubt, the BFF edition |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:06 am Post subject: |
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| LakerLogic wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | | mad55557777 wrote: | | Did we overpay now? Lol |
We still could have negotiated better. AD being this good doesn't change that fact. |
Maybe got a second round pick back or something I guess. |
Keep one of those first round picks that might be useful post-LBJ. |
Keeping one or even two of Ingram/Hart/Ball would be super useful. |
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governator
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | | mad55557777 wrote: | | Did we overpay now? Lol |
We still could have negotiated better. AD being this good doesn't change that fact. |
Maybe got a second round pick back or something I guess. |
Keep one of those first round picks that might be useful post-LBJ. |
Keeping one or even two of Ingram/Hart/Ball would be super useful. |
Honestly, Hart and Ball been replaced by DG/AB or maybe even upgraded. BI will get max offers, AD was an expensive trade that’s more than worth it, imagine had we balked and he was shipped to the damn Celtics |
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danzag
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Joined: 28 Apr 2013
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Location: Brazil
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:18 am Post subject: |
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SO
DAMN
GOOD |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | | mad55557777 wrote: | | Did we overpay now? Lol |
We still could have negotiated better. AD being this good doesn't change that fact. |
Maybe got a second round pick back or something I guess. |
Keep one of those first round picks that might be useful post-LBJ. |
Keeping one or even two of Ingram/Hart/Ball would be super useful. |
Honestly, Hart and Ball been replaced by DG/AB or maybe even upgraded. BI will get max offers, AD was an expensive trade that’s more than worth it, imagine had we balked and he was shipped to the damn Celtics |
Agreed. Let’s be happy with what we got. |
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Mamba81
Star Player
Joined: 19 Nov 2019
Posts: 2027
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | | mad55557777 wrote: | | Did we overpay now? Lol |
We still could have negotiated better. AD being this good doesn't change that fact. |
Maybe got a second round pick back or something I guess. |
Keep one of those first round picks that might be useful post-LBJ. |
Keeping one or even two of Ingram/Hart/Ball would be super useful. |
Honestly, Hart and Ball been replaced by DG/AB or maybe even upgraded. BI will get max offers, AD was an expensive trade that’s more than worth it, imagine had we balked and he was shipped to the damn Celtics |
yep ppl forget that was one of the elements of the trade!! rob did the right thing if ad goes to boston they are probably the favorites to win it all!!
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wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58409
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:11 am Post subject: |
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| 2019 wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | | mad55557777 wrote: | | Did we overpay now? Lol |
We still could have negotiated better. AD being this good doesn't change that fact. |
We went from offering Ingram, Lonzo, Hart, Kuzma, Zubac, KCP, 3 1sts in February to keeping Kuzma and Zubac wasn't included (obv he's wasn't on our roster) but I would say we did a decent job in negotiating. Magic set the value bar incredibly high. Rob was able to negotiate Kuzma out of the deal.
AD was worth every penny we gave up. Would have loved to hang onto Hart too but we're 20-3, made a fair deal and things for NO are working out. |
Not sure if true - Magic said the Lakers offer that got it done had much similarity to what he was offering. He had offered a set of different packages (I am assuming 2 of Ball/Ingram/Kuzma). Demps then said no and asked for all of what you wrote including 4 picks. At that point Magic pulled out.
The issue was never gonna be Hart, Zubac. Picks. It was going to be which of the 3 main young assets - in Kuzma, Ingram and Ball - you give up. Lakers I am sure especially with how much Magic valued Ingram tried different packages without Ingram. Pretty sure same thing happened after in June as well. However there is just no way the Pels are going to trade AD to the Lakers without taking back their top 2 non-all star lottery picks. Ball and Ingram are #2 picks in the draft and still developing. Upside is just way higher than Kuzma who was a late 1st rounder who is older.
All this talk that we shoulda done this, woulda done this. The Lakers were not even going to sniff Anthony Davis unless they started with an offer of Ingram, Ball and 2 picks. Now the fact that we gave up Hart, we gave up the #4 pick in the draft. I am sure if we dragged things out for a long time, and stalled, re-started the deal. At some point maybe in August or September if no other AD deal went down for the Pels they may have come back to us with asking less. I could see Ingram, Ball, #4 pick and 1 more first rounder get it done, instead of Hart+pick swaps+1 more first round pick. I think there was a possibility that happens if Lakers wait. This is sort of what we did with Dwight in 2012. We kept waiting and waiting. Eventually pulled the deal later in the summer.
Question is - Lakers would not know for sure what roster they were building, free agents would not know what players they were playing with and the Lakers would not know whether they needed to invest in a C/PF or players around Lebron and AD. It's a completely different approach to free agency if you know you have AD and Lebron, vs Lebron + Ingram/Ball/Hart/4th pick and then not knowing if you will trade for AD or not, and what role players you will sign around them.
Once Lakers gave up Hart, and the 4th pick on top of Ingram and Ball. They went all in to get Danny Green to replace Hart, made sure they had deals set up with guys like Avery Bradley. Rajon Rondo. McGee. Cousins. KCP. Alex Caruso. A lot of those guys would have likely gone elsehwere had they not known AD was coming. They've made it clear they came to play with AD and Lebron and with all the roster turnover, in the AD trade, the openings that came with that. I think ultimately the Lakers realized, the players they were giving up in Ingram, Ball, Hart, 4th pick in 2019 draft, these guys roles would be replaced in the post-AD trade through free agency. I think we have seen that - we are not missing Hart or Ball. Depth is not our problem. The risk involved in waiting was that Pelicans send AD to another team, and AD sees that the Lakers don't value him as much. Similar to what happened with Paul George. I give Magic credit in that he knew AD was a game changer and had to sell his young assets for that. He knew Paul George was worth losing. AD, no. |
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Jesusdelonla
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Joined: 24 Jan 2018
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:15 am Post subject: |
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| Can average 35 points with dpoy play |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| Jesusdelonla wrote: | | Can average 35 points with dpoy play |
Was looking at Harden once you posted this.
His O rating is 122. Amazing scoring and O rating is great.
D rating is 108.
Net difference rating is +14.
AD's O rating is 120.
His D rating is 98.
Net difference rating is 22.
I think the 2-way impact of AD is greater than any other player in the league. Only Giannis IMO is on his level in this regard. 117 on O rating, 95 on D. +23.
To me I take AD, Giannis, over Harden any day of the week. If AD and Giannis stopped caring about D, or focused on O like Harden does, they would have even better numbers than Harden. |
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Ziggy
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Joined: 10 Feb 2005
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | 2019 wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | | mad55557777 wrote: | | Did we overpay now? Lol |
We still could have negotiated better. AD being this good doesn't change that fact. |
We went from offering Ingram, Lonzo, Hart, Kuzma, Zubac, KCP, 3 1sts in February to keeping Kuzma and Zubac wasn't included (obv he's wasn't on our roster) but I would say we did a decent job in negotiating. Magic set the value bar incredibly high. Rob was able to negotiate Kuzma out of the deal.
AD was worth every penny we gave up. Would have loved to hang onto Hart too but we're 20-3, made a fair deal and things for NO are working out. |
Not sure if true - Magic said the Lakers offer that got it done had much similarity to what he was offering. He had offered a set of different packages (I am assuming 2 of Ball/Ingram/Kuzma). Demps then said no and asked for all of what you wrote including 4 picks. At that point Magic pulled out.
The issue was never gonna be Hart, Zubac. Picks. It was going to be which of the 3 main young assets - in Kuzma, Ingram and Ball - you give up. Lakers I am sure especially with how much Magic valued Ingram tried different packages without Ingram. Pretty sure same thing happened after in June as well. However there is just no way the Pels are going to trade AD to the Lakers without taking back their top 2 non-all star lottery picks. Ball and Ingram are #2 picks in the draft and still developing. Upside is just way higher than Kuzma who was a late 1st rounder who is older.
All this talk that we shoulda done this, woulda done this. The Lakers were not even going to sniff Anthony Davis unless they started with an offer of Ingram, Ball and 2 picks. Now the fact that we gave up Hart, we gave up the #4 pick in the draft. I am sure if we dragged things out for a long time, and stalled, re-started the deal. At some point maybe in August or September if no other AD deal went down for the Pels they may have come back to us with asking less. I could see Ingram, Ball, #4 pick and 1 more first rounder get it done, instead of Hart+pick swaps+1 more first round pick. I think there was a possibility that happens if Lakers wait. This is sort of what we did with Dwight in 2012. We kept waiting and waiting. Eventually pulled the deal later in the summer.
Question is - Lakers would not know for sure what roster they were building, free agents would not know what players they were playing with and the Lakers would not know whether they needed to invest in a C/PF or players around Lebron and AD. It's a completely different approach to free agency if you know you have AD and Lebron, vs Lebron + Ingram/Ball/Hart/4th pick and then not knowing if you will trade for AD or not, and what role players you will sign around them.
Once Lakers gave up Hart, and the 4th pick on top of Ingram and Ball. They went all in to get Danny Green to replace Hart, made sure they had deals set up with guys like Avery Bradley. Rajon Rondo. McGee. Cousins. KCP. Alex Caruso. A lot of those guys would have likely gone elsehwere had they not known AD was coming. They've made it clear they came to play with AD and Lebron and with all the roster turnover, in the AD trade, the openings that came with that. I think ultimately the Lakers realized, the players they were giving up in Ingram, Ball, Hart, 4th pick in 2019 draft, these guys roles would be replaced in the post-AD trade through free agency. I think we have seen that - we are not missing Hart or Ball. Depth is not our problem. The risk involved in waiting was that Pelicans send AD to another team, and AD sees that the Lakers don't value him as much. Similar to what happened with Paul George. I give Magic credit in that he knew AD was a game changer and had to sell his young assets for that. He knew Paul George was worth losing. AD, no. |
Good point about free agency.
You could also assume that Magic felt Kawhi was worth losing for the price that Pop was asking. He was right to feel reluctant. If I were a Clipper fan I'd be worried right now with the knee issue he's dealing with. Imagine if we just had Lebron/Kawhi, very little youth, and no draft picks.
I will never understand people still complaining about what we gave up in the AD trade. He's 26 years old and playing like an MVP. Our guys never showed superstar potential like rookie Ben Simmons, Luka or Trae Young. All-star potential, sure. But not franchise cornerstone potential. That's why the price was so high, because none of them are a sure bet. Not to mention injury history. Pelicans are sitting at 6-16 with 7 straight losses. It was worth it. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:39 am Post subject: |
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^
Some are Ingram fans who think he has proven to become a superstar or on his way and think we were better off keeping him and adding a guy like D'Angelo Russell on the super max. I don't know about that, because while no doubt Ingram has improved on offense, some of what he was doing he was already doing right before he had those clots. Remember his January/Feb numbers last season? He was already starting to reach that 20-25 points a night, consistent scoring threat, level. He has become an all-star caliber player. Some people don't like seeing that go away, but look at what the Lakers got in return - a guy that is so much better than Ingram it's not even a question, really. Defense, offense. AD is much better and is helping the team get wins, something the crew from last year was not doing and again isn't doing in New Orleans. Some people believe it's better to have numbers over quality. 2 all-star caliber players like Ingram and DLO with Lebron vs 2 superstars who compliment each other in AD/LBJ and quality role players. In the history of basketball though, 2 superstars peaking together where one superstar is a guard and the other is a big or wing that dominates defense and inside, with the right role players has shown to win again and again.
Having 2 all-star caliber young guys and a superstar and a team not with te same discipline-chemistry and impact, I don't know if you've seen those teams be as good. DLO and Ingram are these guys really as good when their usage drops and they have to share with Lebron? IDK. I think they have impact as high usage guys.
We had to give up assets and take a chance that AD was legit. I guess we probably had scouted him extensively and knew he was capable to dominate on both ends and change the way the game is played. The way we signed guys seems to be like a team that knew they were going to set everything up around AD and Lebron. It was a good plan, IMO. I don't think this is luck or a fluke. I think Rob Pelinka had this plan to get these guys the best possible situation to win ball games and believed the 2 of them together was going to be a major load. |
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LAII
Star Player
Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 1934
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | 2019 wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | | mad55557777 wrote: | | Did we overpay now? Lol |
We still could have negotiated better. AD being this good doesn't change that fact. |
We went from offering Ingram, Lonzo, Hart, Kuzma, Zubac, KCP, 3 1sts in February to keeping Kuzma and Zubac wasn't included (obv he's wasn't on our roster) but I would say we did a decent job in negotiating. Magic set the value bar incredibly high. Rob was able to negotiate Kuzma out of the deal.
AD was worth every penny we gave up. Would have loved to hang onto Hart too but we're 20-3, made a fair deal and things for NO are working out. |
Well we didn't have the #4 pick when that original offer was made. It was projecting mid to late lotto pick. And Magic notoriously refused to offer too many future picks, which we ended up doing. So in terms of value, we basically gave up the same if not more. |
Magic only offered 2 future 1st rounders. The 3rd future 1st was the sticking point. Either way the Pelicans got the Kings random they desrved. I have zerro regrets. AD is that good.
EDIT: On second thought I am confusing that with what Pop wanted for Kawhi.
Last edited by LAII on Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
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