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TheGodfather
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 Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:52 am Post subject: |
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| LAL1947 wrote: | | TheGodfather wrote: | | LAL1947 wrote: |
After all the crap you were posting in the Pelinka thread before the off-season started... you kinda outed yourself as an illogical FO-hater and perhaps even as a Boo Boo bear to VLF's Yogi bear. I've said it before, but it really wouldn't surprise me to find out that you two know each other in real life or are related or even are shadow accounts of the same person, lol. Anyway, I think you owe Rob and the FO an apology... and it might even be appropriate that you pucker up and kiss Rob's bum-bum the next time you see him, to make up for all the hating.  |
Are you saying I am Ocho's shadow account? Oh lordy. |
Why would you think I was talking to you? I quoted Ocho, not you... and made reference to VLF and Ocho in the reply, not you. |
Okay, sorry man. I just got confused trying to decipher all that.
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ocho
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| Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:56 am Post subject: |
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| TheGodfather wrote: | | Look, I don't think this argument is valid that because he did not have success as a head coach, he cannot have success as a front office guy. I think it is an incredibly lazy argument. He has had success as a role player and he has had success as an assistant coach. Both Magic and Phil trust his intelligence. There are lots of people who are good at one thing and bad at another. His lack of head coaching success on teams lacking talent provides zero evidence he can provide sound advice to Jeanie. Does anyone have anything specific or quantified explaining why he cannot be successful in that role? |
I dont think anyone has said that his status as perhaps the worst coach of the modern era means he can't have success in another job. He was reportedly a major voice in our, let's call it an "unconventional", coaching search. Why have one of the worst coaches ever pick our coach? It's not that he "can't be successful" it's that there's no reason for him being there except for nepotism and we could hire someone who is already great at the job instead of him.
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LAL1947
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| Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:59 am Post subject: |
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| TheGodfather wrote: | | LAL1947 wrote: | | TheGodfather wrote: | | LAL1947 wrote: |
After all the crap you were posting in the Pelinka thread before the off-season started... you kinda outed yourself as an illogical FO-hater and perhaps even as a Boo Boo bear to VLF's Yogi bear. I've said it before, but it really wouldn't surprise me to find out that you two know each other in real life or are related or even are shadow accounts of the same person, lol. Anyway, I think you owe Rob and the FO an apology... and it might even be appropriate that you pucker up and kiss Rob's bum-bum the next time you see him, to make up for all the hating. |
Are you saying I am Ocho's shadow account? Oh lordy. |
Why would you think I was talking to you? I quoted Ocho, not you... and made reference to VLF and Ocho in the reply, not you. |
Okay, sorry man. I just got confused trying to decipher all that. |
No problem. I'm confused too... because we've just had a really good off-season... but there's a small group of folks here who constantly nitpick and find fault with everything... as well as put their negative spin on things (and hoo boy, can some of them spin things!)... instead of being "normal" fans who appreciate the good moves that have been made, getting behind the team, and looking forward to the coming season.
Btw, I like the questions you're asking and the point you're making about lazy arguments.  |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:02 am Post subject: |
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| LakerSD wrote: | Good point, it ultimately starts with Jeanie.
Rambis as the punching bag is misguided tbh. |
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TheGodfather
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| Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:03 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | TheGodfather wrote: | | Look, I don't think this argument is valid that because he did not have success as a head coach, he cannot have success as a front office guy. I think it is an incredibly lazy argument. He has had success as a role player and he has had success as an assistant coach. Both Magic and Phil trust his intelligence. There are lots of people who are good at one thing and bad at another. His lack of head coaching success on teams lacking talent provides zero evidence he can provide sound advice to Jeanie. Does anyone have anything specific or quantified explaining why he cannot be successful in that role? |
I dont think anyone has said that his status as perhaps the worst coach of the modern era means he can't have success in another job. He was reportedly a major voice in our, let's call it an "unconventional", coaching search. Why have one of the worst coaches ever pick our coach? It's not that he "can't be successful" it's that there's no reason for him being there except for nepotism and we could hire someone who is already great at the job instead of him. |
Reportedly? Assumptions? Maybes or maybe nots? Do we know between Jeanie, Rob and Kurt who made the decision to conduct the head coach in that manner? And again, who does the decisions rest with. Jeanie. So in one sentence you say his head coaching past doesn't say he cannot have success in this role and then two sentences later you ask why he is helping pick a coach based on his past coaching record? Are you hearing yourself?
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TheGodfather
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| Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:08 am Post subject: |
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| LAL1947 wrote: | | TheGodfather wrote: | | LAL1947 wrote: | | TheGodfather wrote: | | LAL1947 wrote: |
After all the crap you were posting in the Pelinka thread before the off-season started... you kinda outed yourself as an illogical FO-hater and perhaps even as a Boo Boo bear to VLF's Yogi bear. I've said it before, but it really wouldn't surprise me to find out that you two know each other in real life or are related or even are shadow accounts of the same person, lol. Anyway, I think you owe Rob and the FO an apology... and it might even be appropriate that you pucker up and kiss Rob's bum-bum the next time you see him, to make up for all the hating. |
Are you saying I am Ocho's shadow account? Oh lordy. |
Why would you think I was talking to you? I quoted Ocho, not you... and made reference to VLF and Ocho in the reply, not you. |
Okay, sorry man. I just got confused trying to decipher all that. |
No problem. I'm confused too... because we've just had a really good off-season... but there's a small group of folks here who constantly nitpick and find fault with everything... as well as put their negative spin on things (and hoo boy, can some of them spin things!)... instead of being "normal" fans who appreciate the good moves that have been made, getting behind the team, and looking forward to the coming season.
Btw, I like the questions you're asking and the point you're making about lazy arguments. |
I like where we are at too. How we got here is maybe not pretty, but at the end of the day, it is about results. We'll have to see where things end up a few years from now. But I like where we are at. I think it is becoming more clear by the day that Magic was an enormous problem last year and that as we see Pelinka make decisions more and more, he may be an evil genius. I love our free agent decisions and the way the coaching staff is being filled out by Vogel is pretty damn impressive. I'm optimistic.
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ocho
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| Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:19 am Post subject: |
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| TheGodfather wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | TheGodfather wrote: | | Look, I don't think this argument is valid that because he did not have success as a head coach, he cannot have success as a front office guy. I think it is an incredibly lazy argument. He has had success as a role player and he has had success as an assistant coach. Both Magic and Phil trust his intelligence. There are lots of people who are good at one thing and bad at another. His lack of head coaching success on teams lacking talent provides zero evidence he can provide sound advice to Jeanie. Does anyone have anything specific or quantified explaining why he cannot be successful in that role? |
I dont think anyone has said that his status as perhaps the worst coach of the modern era means he can't have success in another job. He was reportedly a major voice in our, let's call it an "unconventional", coaching search. Why have one of the worst coaches ever pick our coach? It's not that he "can't be successful" it's that there's no reason for him being there except for nepotism and we could hire someone who is already great at the job instead of him. |
Reportedly? Assumptions? Maybes or maybe nots? Do we know between Jeanie, Rob and Kurt who made the decision to conduct the head coach in that manner? And again, who does the decisions rest with. Jeanie. So in one sentence you say his head coaching past doesn't say he cannot have success in this role and then two sentences later you ask why he is helping pick a coach based on his past coaching record? Are you hearing yourself? |
Yes I am. You have to decide whether or not his past matters in regards to his qualifications for the job he has because you're trying to have it both ways. You've cited his playing experience and his AC experience as positives but we aren't allowed to use his HC experience as a negative. There's nothing else to judge him by because he has ZERO front office experience despite being gifted a high level front office job. So yes, it's certainly possible that one of the worst coaches ever is inexplicably incredible at picking coaches but is that the wisest bet? Why take a gamble on a novice when we could just hire elite people? Why is the former preferable to you?
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Zhengi
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| Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Jeanie has people in the Lakers FO she trusts. It's her way of doing things. If the Lakers were not able to contend for a title, due to this, I would be upset. The Lakers FO has brought in 2 superstars in consecutive summers. One of them a Mount Rushmore possibly all time great. Then, the following year, the best big in basketball in his prime. Meanwhile they've stocked up in role players and talented players for 2 years until they can make a run for the best player in the league currently (Giannis). I don't know why there's so much talk about the incompetency of the Lakers FO. In 2 years since they made the changes from the old regime, the Lakers have transformed back into the type of team and set up they had under Dr Buss. I don't care if Jeanie likes having her friends and trusted employees around only. If the results are that we have superstars on the team, contending for a title while positioning the franchise to sign further stars. I'm all for it. |
| LAL1947 wrote: | I'm beginning to think any previous involvement from the Rambii was simply them being forced to get involved due to Magic being an absentee buffoon of a POBO... and because Jeanie doesn't get personally involved with basketball operations (rightly so). We (the fan-base) then jumped on their backs because of how bad the situation was and because the media were putting their usual negative spin on everything Lakers.
Anyway, the FO (Jeanie, Rob, Jesse, West Jr., the Rambii, Harris, whoever) + Richie Paul have made really good moves this off-season... so I don't have anything to complain about. They've knocked the off-season out of the ball-park really:
1) Hired a good coaching staff... Vogel, Kidd, Hollins, Handy, Penberthy.
2) Signed AD and built a team around LBJ/AD that can compete against any others.
3) Brought in some good recruits for the G-league team... Norvell, Holman, Allen, Cacok, Caroline, Miller-McIntyre.
4) Didn't add to the drama that Magic created and no leaks to media.
The only thing left for the FO to do now is to sign a back-up small forward who could be used in the line-up to defend Kawhi/PG types when needed. Also, to keep an eye out for any good trades/deals that may come up in the winter. The rest is in the hands of the coaches and players. |
I mean, here are the two best posts in the thread that explains everything, and yet people are still going on and on about other stuff. The team is back and in contention next year. Let's enjoy the ride.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | Good point, it ultimately starts with Jeanie.
Rambis as the punching bag is misguided tbh. |
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Whoever people want to build narratives around loving and hating in our current front office. Things are much better now that Jim and Mitch are gone.
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Pureshot77
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| Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:28 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | Good point, it ultimately starts with Jeanie.
Rambis as the punching bag is misguided tbh. |
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Whoever people want to build narratives around loving and hating in our current front office. Things are much better now that Jim and Mitch are gone. |
If the Lakers manage to win the title with Jeanie at the helm, will it have ultimately started with her as well? |
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Ziggy
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| Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:32 am Post subject: |
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Jeannie said Kurt is basically there in an advisory role to assist Pelinka. My issue is that she felt we didn't need someone to fill that role, and that's why she said no to Jerry West. Kurt is basically filling a position that should've been filled by JW. And there is just no comparison between Kurt and JW as FO advisors. None. It's a complete mismatch.
But JW said some mean things about Jeannie's boycrush 20 years ago so he has no place in the organization. Jeannie has trust issues and it affects her ability to hire the best people for the job, like a good owner is supposed to do. |
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ocho
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| Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| Ziggy wrote: | Jeannie said Kurt is basically there in an advisory role to assist Pelinka. My issue is that she felt we didn't need someone to fill that role, and that's why she said no to Jerry West. Kurt is basically filling a position that should've been filled by JW. And there is just no comparison between Kurt and JW as FO advisors. None. It's a complete mismatch.
But JW said some mean things about Jeannie's boycrush 20 years ago so he has no place in the organization. Jeannie has trust issues and it affects her ability to hire the best people for the job, like a good owner is supposed to do. |
But why would the Clippers have preferred Jerry West? Shouldn't they have hired, I dunno, Danny Manning or Mike Dunleavy and then waited 3 years to see if they were any good?
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TheGodfather
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| Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: |
Yes I am. You have to decide whether or not his past matters in regards to his qualifications for the job he has because you're trying to have it both ways. You've cited his playing experience and his AC experience as positives but we aren't allowed to use his HC experience as a negative. There's nothing else to judge him by because he has ZERO front office experience despite being gifted a high level front office job. So yes, it's certainly possible that one of the worst coaches ever is inexplicably incredible at picking coaches but is that the wisest bet? Why take a gamble on a novice when we could just hire elite people? Why is the former preferable to you? |
The problem with that whole line of thinking is that I am not here pounding my fist saying that he is qualified for the job, or should have been hired or will be successful. You are saying he is the wrong man for the job and should not be there. I'm taking the neutral approach and am saying let's wait and see. Huge difference. He could fail and you could be right. But we don't know. So when you try to use some type of evidence to claim why he shouldn't be there, it is perfectly acceptable for me to flip that coin.
What I would love to see is something from his coaching track record indicating shear incompetence or lack of ineptitude. Haven't seen anything though.
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ocho
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| Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:49 am Post subject: |
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| TheGodfather wrote: | | ocho wrote: |
Yes I am. You have to decide whether or not his past matters in regards to his qualifications for the job he has because you're trying to have it both ways. You've cited his playing experience and his AC experience as positives but we aren't allowed to use his HC experience as a negative. There's nothing else to judge him by because he has ZERO front office experience despite being gifted a high level front office job. So yes, it's certainly possible that one of the worst coaches ever is inexplicably incredible at picking coaches but is that the wisest bet? Why take a gamble on a novice when we could just hire elite people? Why is the former preferable to you? |
The problem with that whole line of thinking is that I am not here pounding my fist saying that he is qualified for the job, or should have been hired or will be successful. You are saying he is the wrong man for the job and should not be there. I'm taking the neutral approach and am saying let's wait and see. Huge difference. He could fail and you could be right. But we don't know. So when you try to use some type of evidence to claim why he shouldn't be there, it is perfectly acceptable for me to flip that coin.
What I would love to see is something from his coaching track record indicating shear incompetence or lack of ineptitude. Haven't seen anything though. |
Well if you're copping to him being unqualified then we aren't too far apart on our opinions here. The last bit of contention seems to be that you're ok with hiring an unqualified person and waiting to see if they're capable and I'm not.
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LakerSD
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| Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:53 am Post subject: |
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| Pureshot77 wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | Good point, it ultimately starts with Jeanie.
Rambis as the punching bag is misguided tbh. |
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Whoever people want to build narratives around loving and hating in our current front office. Things are much better now that Jim and Mitch are gone. |
If the Lakers manage to win the title with Jeanie at the helm, will it have ultimately started with her as well? |
Of course. It goes both ways... |
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Ziggy
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| Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:57 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Ziggy wrote: | Jeannie said Kurt is basically there in an advisory role to assist Pelinka. My issue is that she felt we didn't need someone to fill that role, and that's why she said no to Jerry West. Kurt is basically filling a position that should've been filled by JW. And there is just no comparison between Kurt and JW as FO advisors. None. It's a complete mismatch.
But JW said some mean things about Jeannie's boycrush 20 years ago so he has no place in the organization. Jeannie has trust issues and it affects her ability to hire the best people for the job, like a good owner is supposed to do. |
But why would the Clippers have preferred Jerry West? Shouldn't they have hired, I dunno, Danny Manning or Mike Dunleavy and then waited 3 years to see if they were any good? |
It's sad, but that is basically what we did. It's the equivalent of the Clippers calling up Olowokandi and saying "here's a high-power front office position, let's see what you can do, old friend". Except it happened to arguably the most valuable sports franchise in the world, running like a mom and pop shop. |
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TheGodfather
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| Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | TheGodfather wrote: | | ocho wrote: |
Yes I am. You have to decide whether or not his past matters in regards to his qualifications for the job he has because you're trying to have it both ways. You've cited his playing experience and his AC experience as positives but we aren't allowed to use his HC experience as a negative. There's nothing else to judge him by because he has ZERO front office experience despite being gifted a high level front office job. So yes, it's certainly possible that one of the worst coaches ever is inexplicably incredible at picking coaches but is that the wisest bet? Why take a gamble on a novice when we could just hire elite people? Why is the former preferable to you? |
The problem with that whole line of thinking is that I am not here pounding my fist saying that he is qualified for the job, or should have been hired or will be successful. You are saying he is the wrong man for the job and should not be there. I'm taking the neutral approach and am saying let's wait and see. Huge difference. He could fail and you could be right. But we don't know. So when you try to use some type of evidence to claim why he shouldn't be there, it is perfectly acceptable for me to flip that coin.
What I would love to see is something from his coaching track record indicating shear incompetence or lack of ineptitude. Haven't seen anything though. |
Well if you're copping to him being unqualified then we aren't too far apart on our opinions here. The last bit of contention seems to be that you're ok with hiring an unqualified person and waiting to see if they're capable and I'm not. |
I'm not saying that at all. I do not believe there is clear evidence that a former player with coaching experience is not capable of becoming a successful front office executive. Was Jerry West unqualified to become the GM after only a few years as a scout?
Why do we tie a very small sample of coaching success to someone's coaching abilities? I think it is generally recognized that Doc Rivers is one of the top coaches in the league? So after two crappy seasons in the 05-06 and 06-07 seasons, you could have labeled him as a poor coach. But then you remake the roster the following season and he wins 66 games. Players matter. So using Kurt's very limited coaching record as evidence of him being incompetent or unqualified for a front office position is just silly.
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ocho
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| Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:11 am Post subject: |
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| TheGodfather wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | TheGodfather wrote: | | ocho wrote: |
Yes I am. You have to decide whether or not his past matters in regards to his qualifications for the job he has because you're trying to have it both ways. You've cited his playing experience and his AC experience as positives but we aren't allowed to use his HC experience as a negative. There's nothing else to judge him by because he has ZERO front office experience despite being gifted a high level front office job. So yes, it's certainly possible that one of the worst coaches ever is inexplicably incredible at picking coaches but is that the wisest bet? Why take a gamble on a novice when we could just hire elite people? Why is the former preferable to you? |
The problem with that whole line of thinking is that I am not here pounding my fist saying that he is qualified for the job, or should have been hired or will be successful. You are saying he is the wrong man for the job and should not be there. I'm taking the neutral approach and am saying let's wait and see. Huge difference. He could fail and you could be right. But we don't know. So when you try to use some type of evidence to claim why he shouldn't be there, it is perfectly acceptable for me to flip that coin.
What I would love to see is something from his coaching track record indicating shear incompetence or lack of ineptitude. Haven't seen anything though. |
Well if you're copping to him being unqualified then we aren't too far apart on our opinions here. The last bit of contention seems to be that you're ok with hiring an unqualified person and waiting to see if they're capable and I'm not. |
I'm not saying that at all. I do not believe there is clear evidence that a former player with coaching experience is not capable of becoming a successful front office executive. Was Jerry West unqualified to become the GM after only a few years as a scout?
Why do we tie a very small sample of coaching success to someone's coaching abilities? I think it is generally recognized that Doc Rivers is one of the top coaches in the league? So after two crappy seasons in the 05-06 and 06-07 seasons, you could have labeled him as a poor coach. But then you remake the roster the following season and he wins 66 games. Players matter. So using Kurt's very limited coaching record as evidence of him being incompetent or unqualified for a front office position is just silly. |
People look to Kurt's coaching record because what else is there? What has you confident in his abilities? He was an ok player and then an assistant coach and then one of the worst head coaches ever and now he's a FO guy all of a sudden. All you have to fall back on is: "well maybe he'll end up being good". When that's all you've got you know a bad decision was made. It didn't have to be this way. We weren't required to only pick from Jeanie's circle of friends. The entire worldwide basketball community was available to us to pursue. Unless you can make the case that the best choice for this spot was Kurt Rambis then we made a mistake.
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Ziggy
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| Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| TheGodfather wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | TheGodfather wrote: | | ocho wrote: |
Yes I am. You have to decide whether or not his past matters in regards to his qualifications for the job he has because you're trying to have it both ways. You've cited his playing experience and his AC experience as positives but we aren't allowed to use his HC experience as a negative. There's nothing else to judge him by because he has ZERO front office experience despite being gifted a high level front office job. So yes, it's certainly possible that one of the worst coaches ever is inexplicably incredible at picking coaches but is that the wisest bet? Why take a gamble on a novice when we could just hire elite people? Why is the former preferable to you? |
The problem with that whole line of thinking is that I am not here pounding my fist saying that he is qualified for the job, or should have been hired or will be successful. You are saying he is the wrong man for the job and should not be there. I'm taking the neutral approach and am saying let's wait and see. Huge difference. He could fail and you could be right. But we don't know. So when you try to use some type of evidence to claim why he shouldn't be there, it is perfectly acceptable for me to flip that coin.
What I would love to see is something from his coaching track record indicating shear incompetence or lack of ineptitude. Haven't seen anything though. |
Well if you're copping to him being unqualified then we aren't too far apart on our opinions here. The last bit of contention seems to be that you're ok with hiring an unqualified person and waiting to see if they're capable and I'm not. |
I'm not saying that at all. I do not believe there is clear evidence that a former player with coaching experience is not capable of becoming a successful front office executive. Was Jerry West unqualified to become the GM after only a few years as a scout?
Why do we tie a very small sample of coaching success to someone's coaching abilities? I think it is generally recognized that Doc Rivers is one of the top coaches in the league? So after two crappy seasons in the 05-06 and 06-07 seasons, you could have labeled him as a poor coach. But then you remake the roster the following season and he wins 66 games. Players matter. So using Kurt's very limited coaching record as evidence of him being incompetent or unqualified for a front office position is just silly. |
Sounds like your mind is already made up, and you decided you're just going to ride with Kurt Rambis, for better or worse. People can have different opinions. |
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Ziggy
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| Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:14 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | TheGodfather wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | TheGodfather wrote: | | ocho wrote: |
Yes I am. You have to decide whether or not his past matters in regards to his qualifications for the job he has because you're trying to have it both ways. You've cited his playing experience and his AC experience as positives but we aren't allowed to use his HC experience as a negative. There's nothing else to judge him by because he has ZERO front office experience despite being gifted a high level front office job. So yes, it's certainly possible that one of the worst coaches ever is inexplicably incredible at picking coaches but is that the wisest bet? Why take a gamble on a novice when we could just hire elite people? Why is the former preferable to you? |
The problem with that whole line of thinking is that I am not here pounding my fist saying that he is qualified for the job, or should have been hired or will be successful. You are saying he is the wrong man for the job and should not be there. I'm taking the neutral approach and am saying let's wait and see. Huge difference. He could fail and you could be right. But we don't know. So when you try to use some type of evidence to claim why he shouldn't be there, it is perfectly acceptable for me to flip that coin.
What I would love to see is something from his coaching track record indicating shear incompetence or lack of ineptitude. Haven't seen anything though. |
Well if you're copping to him being unqualified then we aren't too far apart on our opinions here. The last bit of contention seems to be that you're ok with hiring an unqualified person and waiting to see if they're capable and I'm not. |
I'm not saying that at all. I do not believe there is clear evidence that a former player with coaching experience is not capable of becoming a successful front office executive. Was Jerry West unqualified to become the GM after only a few years as a scout?
Why do we tie a very small sample of coaching success to someone's coaching abilities? I think it is generally recognized that Doc Rivers is one of the top coaches in the league? So after two crappy seasons in the 05-06 and 06-07 seasons, you could have labeled him as a poor coach. But then you remake the roster the following season and he wins 66 games. Players matter. So using Kurt's very limited coaching record as evidence of him being incompetent or unqualified for a front office position is just silly. |
People look to Kurt's coaching record because what else is there? What has you confident in his abilities? He was an ok player and then an assistant coach and then one of the worst head coaches ever and now he's a FO guy all of a sudden. All you have to fall back on is: "well maybe he'll end up being good". When that's all you've got you know a bad decision was made. It didn't have to be this way. We weren't required to only pick from Jeanie's circle of friends. The entire worldwide basketball community was available to us to pursue. Unless you can make the case that the best choice for this spot was Kurt Rambis then we made a mistake. |
David Griffin was available, has an established relationship with Lebron, and way more credentials as a FO executive to speak of. |
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TheGodfather
Starting Rotation
Joined: 07 Jun 2019
Posts: 186
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| Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| Ziggy wrote: |
Sounds like your mind is already made up, and you decided you're just going to ride with Kurt Rambis, for better or worse. People can have different opinions. |
Not all all man. I think most of us agree that the process used to hire Kurt and other people is poor. But just because the process is not good, we cannot assume that a) Kurt is undeserving/unqualified and/or b) Kurt will be unsuccessful.
We just don't know. So until we know, let's give HIM the benefit of the doubt and see what happens.
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Kwahi and Paul...Public Enemy #1 |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144504
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:27 am Post subject: |
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| TheGodfather wrote: | | Look, I don't think this argument is valid that because he did not have success as a head coach, he cannot have success as a front office guy. I think it is an incredibly lazy argument. He has had success as a role player and he has had success as an assistant coach. Both Magic and Phil trust his intelligence. There are lots of people who are good at one thing and bad at another. His lack of head coaching success on teams lacking talent provides zero evidence he can't provide sound advice to Jeanie. Does anyone have anything specific or quantified explaining why he cannot be successful in that role? |
You do realize that stating that Magic and Phil trusts him isn’t a good thing? Their management experience has been utter failure. I won’t bag on Kurt, he is doing what is asked. He hasn’t been successful previously so I don’t really expect anything from him. Jeanie has been responsible for this shipwreck, blame lies at her feet.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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AFireInside619
Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Dec 2015
Posts: 11447
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| Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:28 am Post subject: |
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| Fun fact TheGodfather. Did you know Pete is a Moderator her on LG. Just two seasons ago you could have interacted with him. Cool huh? |
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ocho
Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 53939
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| Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:32 am Post subject: |
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| Ziggy wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | TheGodfather wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | TheGodfather wrote: | | ocho wrote: |
Yes I am. You have to decide whether or not his past matters in regards to his qualifications for the job he has because you're trying to have it both ways. You've cited his playing experience and his AC experience as positives but we aren't allowed to use his HC experience as a negative. There's nothing else to judge him by because he has ZERO front office experience despite being gifted a high level front office job. So yes, it's certainly possible that one of the worst coaches ever is inexplicably incredible at picking coaches but is that the wisest bet? Why take a gamble on a novice when we could just hire elite people? Why is the former preferable to you? |
The problem with that whole line of thinking is that I am not here pounding my fist saying that he is qualified for the job, or should have been hired or will be successful. You are saying he is the wrong man for the job and should not be there. I'm taking the neutral approach and am saying let's wait and see. Huge difference. He could fail and you could be right. But we don't know. So when you try to use some type of evidence to claim why he shouldn't be there, it is perfectly acceptable for me to flip that coin.
What I would love to see is something from his coaching track record indicating shear incompetence or lack of ineptitude. Haven't seen anything though. |
Well if you're copping to him being unqualified then we aren't too far apart on our opinions here. The last bit of contention seems to be that you're ok with hiring an unqualified person and waiting to see if they're capable and I'm not. |
I'm not saying that at all. I do not believe there is clear evidence that a former player with coaching experience is not capable of becoming a successful front office executive. Was Jerry West unqualified to become the GM after only a few years as a scout?
Why do we tie a very small sample of coaching success to someone's coaching abilities? I think it is generally recognized that Doc Rivers is one of the top coaches in the league? So after two crappy seasons in the 05-06 and 06-07 seasons, you could have labeled him as a poor coach. But then you remake the roster the following season and he wins 66 games. Players matter. So using Kurt's very limited coaching record as evidence of him being incompetent or unqualified for a front office position is just silly. |
People look to Kurt's coaching record because what else is there? What has you confident in his abilities? He was an ok player and then an assistant coach and then one of the worst head coaches ever and now he's a FO guy all of a sudden. All you have to fall back on is: "well maybe he'll end up being good". When that's all you've got you know a bad decision was made. It didn't have to be this way. We weren't required to only pick from Jeanie's circle of friends. The entire worldwide basketball community was available to us to pursue. Unless you can make the case that the best choice for this spot was Kurt Rambis then we made a mistake. |
David Griffin was available, has an established relationship with Lebron, and way more credentials as a FO executive to speak of. |
Yep, and unfortunately passing on Griffin meant we had to go up against him in the Davis discussions.
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andrewc
Starting Rotation
Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 475
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| Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:32 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Let's frame it another way. What has Kurt Rambis accomplished in a front office to justify him having a high level role (basically the assistant GM) in the Lakers organization? The answer is nothing. He has no FO experience (something that we unfortunately seem to view as a plus). No training under someone experienced and accomplished. He was an assistant coach and then perhaps the worst head coach of the modern era. That's the resume. His wife is friends with the owner and that's why he has the job. That's an embarrassment worthy of mockery. |
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