But anyways, you’re whole platform is - if LBJ said something about Turkey hypocritically, then iPhone users and Nike sneaker wearers can call him out?
This is your whole platform?
No not at all.
But you just said if LeBron said something about Turkey, I’d be right?
So it’s only his statements about China that you have issues with?
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29601 Location: La La Land
Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:45 am Post subject:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
And what exactly did he say about China?
He said he doesn’t know enough about what’s going on between Hong Kong and China.
His whole platform was about Morey making a social justice statement.
It wasn’t about the statement being about China. It could have been about anything.
His whole platform was Morey needs to shut up and dribble.
Come on now.
What was Morey "uneducated" about? Where were NBA games played last week that players could've been in danger? _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Last edited by kikanga on Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29601 Location: La La Land
Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:47 am Post subject:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
kikanga wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
But anyways, you’re whole platform is - if LBJ said something about Turkey hypocritically, then iPhone users and Nike sneaker wearers can call him out?
This is your whole platform?
No not at all.
But you just said if LeBron said something about Turkey, I’d be right?
So it’s only his statements about China that you have issues with?
I must've agreed to something I didn't realize then. My mistake.
People can call out Lebron if he's being hypocritical. Whether the caller outers are hypocritical themselves or not. Whether it's about China or not. Why do you want me to say the same thing over and over again, While ignoring the questions I've asked you? _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Last edited by kikanga on Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:02 pm; edited 4 times in total
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29601 Location: La La Land
Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:48 am Post subject:
I'm hopping off this merry go round. None of us has said anything new for the last 10 -15 posts. Can only talk in circles for so long. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
I'm hopping off this merry go round. None of us has said anything new for the last 10 -15 posts. Can only talk in circles for so long.
You’re trying to make a nuanced point.
I get what you’re saying. But one thing I have learned is that some people are better than others at thinking in nuanced terms.
Nothing wrong with pointing out hypocrisy as you said. But virtue signaling about hypocrisy? Bad look. The difference? It is nuanced.
Plus, Lebron has done enough good that he gets the benefit of the doubt IMO, and certainly not deserving of as much negative attention as he has gotten.
But anyways, you’re whole platform is - if LBJ said something about Turkey hypocritically, then iPhone users and Nike sneaker wearers can call him out?
This is your whole platform?
No not at all.
But you just said if LeBron said something about Turkey, I’d be right?
So it’s only his statements about China that you have issues with?
I must've agreed to something I didn't realize then. My mistake.
People can call out Lebron if he's being hypocritical. Whether the caller outers are hypocritical themselves or not. Whether it's about China or not. Why do you want me to say the same thing over and over again, While ignoring the questions I've asked you?
So you agreed to something you didn’t realize.
Ok, so I’ll ask again, if Morey’s comment was on Turkey, would you still bring up iPhone users and Nike wearers?
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:00 pm Post subject:
Thugnomoe wrote:
virtue signaling is a legit term.. and there are a lot of famous people who do it..they're probably the biggest culprits of virtue signaling because they have the most to gain.. that said..
I don't think Lebron is guilty of virtue signaling.. He's put his money where his mouth is. i swear...He's done more for Cleveland and Akron than any politician or elected official.. started the school, tons of charity, hell..the economy of Cleveland was based on him..
heat to be that guy, but was it ever released how much he actually contributed to that school? I recall last year there were a few reports that at least questioned his actual investment into the school, and some suggesting he raised money but personally only donated memorabilia. I fully get we live in a society where people always try to take down anyones good deeds, but I just wondered if they ever gave an actual number he invested.
virtue signaling is a legit term.. and there are a lot of famous people who do it..they're probably the biggest culprits of virtue signaling because they have the most to gain.. that said..
I don't think Lebron is guilty of virtue signaling.. He's put his money where his mouth is. i swear...He's done more for Cleveland and Akron than any politician or elected official.. started the school, tons of charity, hell..the economy of Cleveland was based on him..
heat to be that guy, but was it ever released how much he actually contributed to that school? I recall last year there were a few reports that at least questioned his actual investment into the school, and some suggesting he raised money but personally only donated memorabilia. I fully get we live in a society where people always try to take down anyones good deeds, but I just wondered if they ever gave an actual number he invested.
It sounds legit. It's a public school, so the school district will eventually pay most of the costs. But Lebron really did sink a lot of money into it.
LBJ was absolutely 100% correct about what he said. Morey was indeed misinformed, or a better phrase: lack of knowledge on the sensitivity of the conversations surrounding HK, Taiwan and Tibet to mainland China. i've been back to PRC numerous times, still have distant families there. they can show you around for good times, wild parties, and they would buy into American culture and products. but as soon as the conversation turns into those sensitive subjects, you can just sense the unity amongst them, no matter how they appear on the outside, deep down, if an outsider saying something about HK, TW or Tibet, it's like someone talking behind your back on one of your family members.
LBJ was absolutely 100% correct about what he said. Morey was indeed misinformed, or a better phrase: lack of knowledge on the sensitivity of the conversations surrounding HK, Taiwan and Tibet to mainland China. i've been back to PRC numerous times, still have distant families there. they can show you around for good times, wild parties, and they would buy into American culture and products. but as soon as the conversation turns into those sensitive subjects, you can just sense the unity amongst them, no matter how they appear on the outside, deep down, if an outsider saying something about HK, TW or Tibet, it's like someone talking behind your back on one of your family members.
You're right, but let it go. These people are locked into a death match.
LBJ was absolutely 100% correct about what he said. Morey was indeed misinformed, or a better phrase: lack of knowledge on the sensitivity of the conversations surrounding HK, Taiwan and Tibet to mainland China. i've been back to PRC numerous times, still have distant families there. they can show you around for good times, wild parties, and they would buy into American culture and products. but as soon as the conversation turns into those sensitive subjects, you can just sense the unity amongst them, no matter how they appear on the outside, deep down, if an outsider saying something about HK, TW or Tibet, it's like someone talking behind your back on one of your family members.
What about if an outsider says something about the areas where Uighurs or Uyghurs are? (Haven't read most of this thread btw)
LBJ was absolutely 100% correct about what he said. Morey was indeed misinformed, or a better phrase: lack of knowledge on the sensitivity of the conversations surrounding HK, Taiwan and Tibet to mainland China. i've been back to PRC numerous times, still have distant families there. they can show you around for good times, wild parties, and they would buy into American culture and products. but as soon as the conversation turns into those sensitive subjects, you can just sense the unity amongst them, no matter how they appear on the outside, deep down, if an outsider saying something about HK, TW or Tibet, it's like someone talking behind your back on one of your family members.
whether morey was informed or misinformed, it really does not mattered. he opened up his big mouth, and he paid for it. if morey is given a choice now: (1) support hk and rockets lose their share of the china market or (2) keep mouth shut and rockets are top 3 in china market. which one do you think he would take
and these people who think buying or not buying chinese products would be relevant. they really should check what % of china gdp is exports to america. they would probably be shocked
there are things that china does need but these posters are completely barking up the wrong tree.
LBJ was absolutely 100% correct about what he said. Morey was indeed misinformed, or a better phrase: lack of knowledge on the sensitivity of the conversations surrounding HK, Taiwan and Tibet to mainland China. i've been back to PRC numerous times, still have distant families there. they can show you around for good times, wild parties, and they would buy into American culture and products. but as soon as the conversation turns into those sensitive subjects, you can just sense the unity amongst them, no matter how they appear on the outside, deep down, if an outsider saying something about HK, TW or Tibet, it's like someone talking behind your back on one of your family members.
What about if an outsider says something about the areas where Uighurs or Uyghurs are? (Haven't read most of this thread btw)
1-3 million are in camps after a large number of terrorist attacks from 2010 to 2015. those attacks were mostly in their home province but spreaded to other areas including beijing and as far as southern china.
if a large number of terrorist attacks happened in america over a 5 year period, how many here would be wanting to put those people in camps?
LBJ was absolutely 100% correct about what he said. Morey was indeed misinformed, or a better phrase: lack of knowledge on the sensitivity of the conversations surrounding HK, Taiwan and Tibet to mainland China. i've been back to PRC numerous times, still have distant families there. they can show you around for good times, wild parties, and they would buy into American culture and products. but as soon as the conversation turns into those sensitive subjects, you can just sense the unity amongst them, no matter how they appear on the outside, deep down, if an outsider saying something about HK, TW or Tibet, it's like someone talking behind your back on one of your family members.
whether morey was informed or misinformed, it really does not mattered. he opened up his big mouth, and he paid for it. if morey is given a choice now: (1) support hk and rockets lose their share of the china market or (2) keep mouth shut and rockets are top 3 in china market. which one do you think he would take
and these people who think buying or not buying chinese products would be relevant. they really should check what % of china gdp is exports to america. they would probably be shocked
there are things that china does need but these posters are completely barking up the wrong tree.
You missed the point. It was never about buying products from China. That discussion was about hypocrites virtuale signaling to Lebron about what a hypocrite he is (and, by implication, how virtuous they are).
The virtue signalers, like everyone else, don’t sacrifice the things that are too inconvenient. They just like to pretend they do and thats the only difference.
Joined: 19 Jul 2005 Posts: 14660 Location: unfortunately not Los Angeles anymore
Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:01 pm Post subject:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Thugnomoe wrote:
virtue signaling is a legit term.. and there are a lot of famous people who do it..they're probably the biggest culprits of virtue signaling because they have the most to gain.. that said..
I don't think Lebron is guilty of virtue signaling.. He's put his money where his mouth is. i swear...He's done more for Cleveland and Akron than any politician or elected official.. started the school, tons of charity, hell..the economy of Cleveland was based on him..
heat to be that guy, but was it ever released how much he actually contributed to that school? I recall last year there were a few reports that at least questioned his actual investment into the school, and some suggesting he raised money but personally only donated memorabilia. I fully get we live in a society where people always try to take down anyones good deeds, but I just wondered if they ever gave an actual number he invested.
It sounds legit. It's a public school, so the school district will eventually pay most of the costs. But Lebron really did sink a lot of money into it.
LBJ was absolutely 100% correct about what he said. Morey was indeed misinformed, or a better phrase: lack of knowledge on the sensitivity of the conversations surrounding HK, Taiwan and Tibet to mainland China. i've been back to PRC numerous times, still have distant families there. they can show you around for good times, wild parties, and they would buy into American culture and products. but as soon as the conversation turns into those sensitive subjects, you can just sense the unity amongst them, no matter how they appear on the outside, deep down, if an outsider saying something about HK, TW or Tibet, it's like someone talking behind your back on one of your family members.
whether morey was informed or misinformed, it really does not mattered. he opened up his big mouth, and he paid for it. if morey is given a choice now: (1) support hk and rockets lose their share of the china market or (2) keep mouth shut and rockets are top 3 in china market. which one do you think he would take
and these people who think buying or not buying chinese products would be relevant. they really should check what % of china gdp is exports to america. they would probably be shocked
there are things that china does need but these posters are completely barking up the wrong tree.
You missed the point. It was never about buying products from China. That discussion was about hypocrites virtuale signaling to Lebron about what a hypocrite he is (and, by implication, how virtuous they are).
The virtue signalers, like everyone else, don’t sacrifice the things that are too inconvenient. They just like to pretend they do and thats the only difference.
i see the discussion about nike, lebron, virtual signaling etc.
but i think it is missing the point.
average/normal people and even lebron simply do not possess the ability to influence anything real no matter how much they are willing to sacrifice.
most simply, exports to usa is less than 4% of china's gdp.
so any tariffs and other measures from the demand side are going nowhere.
it is not as if it would not cause pain because it would.
indeed this type of policy forced mexico and canada to their knees.
however the same tactic would simply piss china off because their economy is too big to fail just like the american one.
from the supply side, the usa does have significantly more leverage than from the demand side.
in particular, there are certain technology items that china lacks.
usa can cause substantial economic harm if china cannot buy these items.
for example, this includes processors for 5g infrastructure, micron's memory for cell phones, ARM (british) processors for cellphones, the cell phone transmitter amplifier chip from skyworks and qorvo, and google's operating system & all important ecosystem.
indeed, trump pretty much leveraged these advantages into $50 billion of agricultural purchases.
however, one would argue china would have made those purchases anyway because they had to slaughter half their pigs due to some swine disease.
now these advantages would not last forever. for example, huawei already announced their own operating system as well their own processor chip a couple months ago. the even bigger joke is that taiwan's largest semiconductor manufacturer will be producing the chip for huawei. so the american advantage may imo only last 3-5 years.
if we live by the sword, what happens when the sword becomes shorter in 3 years?
many try to demonize china, and there are many serious things about china that can be demonized.
however what is that going to achieve other than getting some politicians elected.
the party in control in china is simply too powerful and entrenched.
and they are covering their weakness and actively working to decouple from the usa suppliers because of the trade war.
instead of trying to demonize, engagement may be the best (and only) solution.
while engagement takes a long time, there are real results.
for example, chinese used to really really discriminate against blacks, but the nba has changed that. would they want their daughter to marry one, of course not. but such a question would have been unthinkable 20 years ago.
internet restrictions have been horrendous in china, but they are now talking about legally allowing vpn's in beijing.
and as sgv stated, the ultimate fate of tw, hk and macau becoming part of china is not going to change.
however, what can change is what that china becomes.
the biggest example is their economy.
in the last 30 years, they have gone from complete central-controlled into loosely central-controlled capitalism, and with devastatingly good results.
Last edited by cal1piggy on Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:48 am; edited 2 times in total
"I stand for four things, man: inner peace, freedom, equality and world peace"
"I understand that Hong Kong and China is dealing with their issues, respectively," Irving said. "But there is enough oppression and stuff going on in America for me not to be involved in the community issues here as well."
LBJ was absolutely 100% correct about what he said. Morey was indeed misinformed, or a better phrase: lack of knowledge on the sensitivity of the conversations surrounding HK, Taiwan and Tibet to mainland China. i've been back to PRC numerous times, still have distant families there. they can show you around for good times, wild parties, and they would buy into American culture and products. but as soon as the conversation turns into those sensitive subjects, you can just sense the unity amongst them, no matter how they appear on the outside, deep down, if an outsider saying something about HK, TW or Tibet, it's like someone talking behind your back on one of your family members.
whether morey was informed or misinformed, it really does not mattered. he opened up his big mouth, and he paid for it. if morey is given a choice now: (1) support hk and rockets lose their share of the china market or (2) keep mouth shut and rockets are top 3 in china market. which one do you think he would take
and these people who think buying or not buying chinese products would be relevant. they really should check what % of china gdp is exports to america. they would probably be shocked
there are things that china does need but these posters are completely barking up the wrong tree.
You missed the point. It was never about buying products from China. That discussion was about hypocrites virtuale signaling to Lebron about what a hypocrite he is (and, by implication, how virtuous they are).
The virtue signalers, like everyone else, don’t sacrifice the things that are too inconvenient. They just like to pretend they do and thats the only difference.
I think you’re missing the point of the people you continue to criticize for “virtue signaling”. At least some of us. I don’t like the constant virtue signaling and agree with your opinion that it happens far too often but LeBron is being a complete hypocrite and denying that is nothing more than ignorance. He’s been playing the social justice card for years now without repercussion (it’s actually benefitted him in many ways). He has enough wealth for his kid’s kid’s kids to be more than comfortable. When finally put in a situation where he could’ve spoke out against social injustice and been negatively affected by it, he didn’t speak against it or be quiet(I would’ve had no problem with him staying quiet), he claimed somebody supporting the fight against social injustice was misinformed. It’s more than disappointing, not because I want people to think I’m virtuous or because I want people to know I would’ve acted differently but because it shows what his true motives have been all along. His brand and his wealth, not actually fighting for social justice.
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29601 Location: La La Land
Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:28 am Post subject:
Although I don't like how my position has been distorted over and over again.
I do like how this conversation has broken up posters who normally align on opinion. I think that's good sign of a worthwhile debate. When people disagree on the topic even though they align on most other topics. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144575 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:39 am Post subject:
Thugnomoe wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Thugnomoe wrote:
virtue signaling is a legit term.. and there are a lot of famous people who do it..they're probably the biggest culprits of virtue signaling because they have the most to gain.. that said..
I don't think Lebron is guilty of virtue signaling.. He's put his money where his mouth is. i swear...He's done more for Cleveland and Akron than any politician or elected official.. started the school, tons of charity, hell..the economy of Cleveland was based on him..
heat to be that guy, but was it ever released how much he actually contributed to that school? I recall last year there were a few reports that at least questioned his actual investment into the school, and some suggesting he raised money but personally only donated memorabilia. I fully get we live in a society where people always try to take down anyones good deeds, but I just wondered if they ever gave an actual number he invested.
It sounds legit. It's a public school, so the school district will eventually pay most of the costs. But Lebron really did sink a lot of money into it.
this is why you can't throw him into the virtue signaling group. He's put his money where his mouth is on social justice.
and I maintain that he's right on what he said about China as well because he was referring to the safety of his team and other NBA players.
that said... I think what China is doing is awful.. and this guy is correct:
Feared about the safety of his team? Is that being serious?
If you’ve been following the thread, you already know the answer, and you’re just stirring the pot. If you haven’t been following the thread, go do some reading.
virtue signaling is a legit term.. and there are a lot of famous people who do it..they're probably the biggest culprits of virtue signaling because they have the most to gain.. that said..
I don't think Lebron is guilty of virtue signaling.. He's put his money where his mouth is. i swear...He's done more for Cleveland and Akron than any politician or elected official.. started the school, tons of charity, hell..the economy of Cleveland was based on him..
heat to be that guy, but was it ever released how much he actually contributed to that school? I recall last year there were a few reports that at least questioned his actual investment into the school, and some suggesting he raised money but personally only donated memorabilia. I fully get we live in a society where people always try to take down anyones good deeds, but I just wondered if they ever gave an actual number he invested.
It sounds legit. It's a public school, so the school district will eventually pay most of the costs. But Lebron really did sink a lot of money into it.
virtue signaling is a legit term.. and there are a lot of famous people who do it..they're probably the biggest culprits of virtue signaling because they have the most to gain.. that said..
I don't think Lebron is guilty of virtue signaling.. He's put his money where his mouth is. i swear...He's done more for Cleveland and Akron than any politician or elected official.. started the school, tons of charity, hell..the economy of Cleveland was based on him..
heat to be that guy, but was it ever released how much he actually contributed to that school? I recall last year there were a few reports that at least questioned his actual investment into the school, and some suggesting he raised money but personally only donated memorabilia. I fully get we live in a society where people always try to take down anyones good deeds, but I just wondered if they ever gave an actual number he invested.
It sounds legit. It's a public school, so the school district will eventually pay most of the costs. But Lebron really did sink a lot of money into it.
Joined: 19 Jul 2005 Posts: 14660 Location: unfortunately not Los Angeles anymore
Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:59 pm Post subject:
cal1piggy wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Thugnomoe wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Thugnomoe wrote:
virtue signaling is a legit term.. and there are a lot of famous people who do it..they're probably the biggest culprits of virtue signaling because they have the most to gain.. that said..
I don't think Lebron is guilty of virtue signaling.. He's put his money where his mouth is. i swear...He's done more for Cleveland and Akron than any politician or elected official.. started the school, tons of charity, hell..the economy of Cleveland was based on him..
heat to be that guy, but was it ever released how much he actually contributed to that school? I recall last year there were a few reports that at least questioned his actual investment into the school, and some suggesting he raised money but personally only donated memorabilia. I fully get we live in a society where people always try to take down anyones good deeds, but I just wondered if they ever gave an actual number he invested.
It sounds legit. It's a public school, so the school district will eventually pay most of the costs. But Lebron really did sink a lot of money into it.
Lebron most definitely was concerned primarily with the safety of the players.. that's why he said "could have waited a week to tweet that." because in a week, they would have been gone.
he wouldn't have tweeted that if he was just concerned about money.
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