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AirKobe8
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 Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:57 am Post subject: |
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Bobby Marks said it's a long shot, and it looks like it is.
There's really no parallel to Orlando/Mozgov because Mozzgov never played in the NBA again. For CBA purposes, it doesn't matter that he played (or not) in Russia later on.
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danzag
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:09 am Post subject: |
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Let's do this!!!!
ROB 'EM PELINKA!!!!! |
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Lonzo-Lite
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:16 am Post subject: |
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Bobby Marks doesn’t think Lakers will get approval
| Quote: | Considering that Deng went on to play 22 games with Minnesota in 2018/19, it will be extremely difficult to prove that Deng suffered a career ending injury with the Lakers.
Nothing wrong with applying but a long shot that his salary gets removed.
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https://twitter.com/bobbymarks42/status/1318602008673353734?s=21
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hydrohead
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| Lonzo-Lite wrote: | Bobby Marks doesn’t think Lakers will get approval
| Quote: | Considering that Deng went on to play 22 games with Minnesota in 2018/19, it will be extremely difficult to prove that Deng suffered a career ending injury with the Lakers.
Nothing wrong with applying but a long shot that his salary gets removed.
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https://twitter.com/bobbymarks42/status/1318602008673353734?s=21 |
Pincus a step ahead of Marks on this.
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:31 am Post subject: |
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| hydrohead wrote: | | Lonzo-Lite wrote: | Bobby Marks doesn’t think Lakers will get approval
| Quote: | Considering that Deng went on to play 22 games with Minnesota in 2018/19, it will be extremely difficult to prove that Deng suffered a career ending injury with the Lakers.
Nothing wrong with applying but a long shot that his salary gets removed.
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https://twitter.com/bobbymarks42/status/1318602008673353734?s=21 |
Pincus a step ahead of Marks on this. |
Yep |
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cathy78
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Joined: 21 Jan 2013
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| MookieBetts50 wrote: | | All Cupcake's fault, league should transfer this hellish contract to the Hornets. |
It's not the Hornets fault, let's transfer it to Mitch's private account... |
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angrypuppy
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| Mozgov just isn't a close precedent. But applying is free, so why not? |
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Megaton
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| hydrohead wrote: | | Lonzo-Lite wrote: | Bobby Marks doesn’t think Lakers will get approval
| Quote: | Considering that Deng went on to play 22 games with Minnesota in 2018/19, it will be extremely difficult to prove that Deng suffered a career ending injury with the Lakers.
Nothing wrong with applying but a long shot that his salary gets removed.
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https://twitter.com/bobbymarks42/status/1318602008673353734?s=21 |
Pincus a step ahead of Marks on this. |
Yeah Pincus already countered this. The minimum is 25 games. Deng only played 22.
Plus trusting a Clippers reporter like him and Woj is a bad idea.
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Harlemlakerfan
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:37 am Post subject: |
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| Treat this as found money. We are not plaining on it s, if it happens, it will be a nice surprise. if it doesn't, move on with business as usual. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:49 am Post subject: |
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I’m not sure that Eric is correct about this. There has to be a medical determination of a career-ending injury. If the determination is made, and if the player “proves the doctors wrong” by playing at least 25 more games, then the salary goes back on the books. But there still has to be a medical determination that the injury was career-ending. “Career-ending” can include a determination that continuing to play poses an unreasonable medical risk. There is a Fitness-to-Play Panel for this.
As I see it, the big hurdle is that the TWolves considered him fit to play. He must have passed a physical. The fact that he played fewer than 25 games for the TWolves does not seem material to whether he was fit to play. Instead, playing 25 games negates a previous unfit to play determination. But there wasn’t such a determination.
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vasashi17+
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:51 am Post subject: |
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Even with Deng’s stretched salary removed, we would only have about 7.5m in cap space if every player opted out and we only resigned AD.
Bron, AD, Green, Kuz, AC, THT, Cook’s 1m guaranteed, #28, 5 incomplete roster charges = 102.6m
So with only 7.5m in cap space to spend, we couldn’t even offer other free agents more than the ntpMLE of 9.4m. So why even apply for the Deng exclusion then?
It’s cause we will be hard capped at 139m if we use either the ntpMLE, BAE or both. So we have bird rights to KCP (full), Rondo (early) and McGee (early if he opts out of his current deal) and all of them can be paid their full max without really endangering the apron if we use both the ntpMLE and BAE.
Something to note is that if we sign any of our own FAs to a de facto 1yr deal (even with option or partially guaranteed money in the 2nd year of a new deal), then they essentially have a no-trade clause built into those deals. So if we run it back offering such deals to still play with enough cap in 2021 free agency and only interested in upgrading with new talent via the ntpMLE and BAE, then we limit ourselves this upcoming season by being unable to make in-season trades with nearly all our current players having no-trade clauses. |
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saetarubia
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | Even with Deng’s stretched salary removed, we would only have about 7.5m in cap space if every player opted out and we only resigned AD.
Bron, AD, Green, Kuz, AC, THT, Cook’s 1m guaranteed, #28, 5 incomplete roster charges = 102.6m
So with only 7.5m in cap space to spend, we couldn’t even offer other free agents more than the ntpMLE of 9.4m. So why even apply for the Deng exclusion then?
It’s cause we will be hard capped at 139m if we use either the ntpMLE, BAE or both. So we have bird rights to KCP (full), Rondo (early) and McGee (early if he opts out of his current deal) and all of them can be paid their full max without really endangering the apron if we use both the ntpMLE and BAE.
Something to note is that if we sign any of our own FAs to a de facto 1yr deal (even with option or partially guaranteed money in the 2nd year of a new deal), then they essentially have a no-trade clause built into those deals. So if we run it back offering such deals to still play with enough cap in 2021 free agency and only interested in upgrading with new talent via the ntpMLE and BAE, then we limit ourselves this upcoming season by being unable to make in-season trades with nearly all our current players having no-trade clauses. |
That 5 M could be the difference between having full MLE & BAE and just tax payer's MLE once we have paid KCP and Rondo. So it's worth a shot.
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Laker's Fan
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:10 am Post subject: |
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CBA FAQ
| Quote: | | A team can only apply for salary exclusion during the original term of a contract. If the player was waived and his salary stretched (see question number 64), the team must apply for the salary exclusion before the contract's original end date. |
So Rob got this in at the buzzer (overtime in fact with the extension of the season). Smart thinking all things considered.
Teams aren't allowed to trade for a player anticipating that they will qualify to be removal from their cap (iirc Cuttino Mobley and the Rockets had such a case that was denied). So the fact that Mozgov was dealt to Orlando, never played for them, and was granted the removal is pretty big. |
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vasashi17+
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:13 am Post subject: |
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^Yep...also other than the obvious savings in potential taxes (if we make a move for a big salary player or keep Kcp on a big annual deal we finally might be a tax payer), this 5m is cleared off our books for the 2021 offseason as well.
Bron: 41m
AD (projected 2nd yr of max): 35.3m
Giannis (projected max): 34.8m
9 incomplete roster charge: about 9m
= about 120m in team salary
If the projections stay as is, 2021/22’s cap could be about 116m. If AD signs a 1+1 this offseason, both AD and Bron would only have to shave roughly 2m each from their respective max deals to make room for the other Antetokounmpo bro’s max. |
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Laker's Fan
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:42 am Post subject: |
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Mozgov played 31 games in the 2017-18 season for Brooklyn, including three in the final month of the season. During the 2018 offseason, he was then traded from Brooklyn to Charlotte, and then Charlotte to Orlando. Never suiting up a game for Orlando they waived him and the league granted their petition to remove his salary for career ending injury.
Deng only played one game, 13 minutes in the season opener, in the 2017-18 season. He was cut prior to the start of the 2018-19 season and his salary was stretched. He attempted a comeback with Minnesota that lasted only 22 games.
If the medicals suggest that Deng only elected to stop playing instead of being forced to retire due to injury, it wouldn't be approved. But if these two cases, save the medicals, the Mozgov case looks like a much farther stretch. |
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AFireInside619
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Joined: 11 Dec 2015
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:59 am Post subject: |
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I think the Giannis ship has sailed for all parties. Unless Lebron abruptly leaves after this season, I can’t see those Lebron, AD, and Giannis all in the same team. Operating all in the same area.
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Laker's Fan
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | I’m not sure that Eric is correct about this. There has to be a medical determination of a career-ending injury. If the determination is made, and if the player “proves the doctors wrong” by playing at least 25 more games, then the salary goes back on the books. But there still has to be a medical determination that the injury was career-ending. “Career-ending” can include a determination that continuing to play poses an unreasonable medical risk. There is a Fitness-to-Play Panel for this.
As I see it, the big hurdle is that the TWolves considered him fit to play. He must have passed a physical. The fact that he played fewer than 25 games for the TWolves does not seem material to whether he was fit to play. Instead, playing 25 games negates a previous unfit to play determination. But there wasn’t such a determination. |
I get what you're saying. But wouldn't it always be the case that a player would have to convince a team they were fit to play to attempt a comeback? In anticipation of that, the rule has a specific threshold of 25 games for when that comeback attempt nullifies the salary removal.
Deng last played for the Lakers in October of 2017. In September of 2018 he was waived. He attempted a comeback in 2018-19 which lasted 22 games. |
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DancingBarry
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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That we are using Mozgov as the precedent for Deng... 
It was not easy getting out from that all the way to where we are now. Sheesh. |
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japanesebeef1
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| DancingBarry wrote: | That we are using Mozgov as the precedent for Deng...
It was not easy getting out from that all the way to where we are now. Sheesh. |
lol |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Laker's Fan wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | I’m not sure that Eric is correct about this. There has to be a medical determination of a career-ending injury. If the determination is made, and if the player “proves the doctors wrong” by playing at least 25 more games, then the salary goes back on the books. But there still has to be a medical determination that the injury was career-ending. “Career-ending” can include a determination that continuing to play poses an unreasonable medical risk. There is a Fitness-to-Play Panel for this.
As I see it, the big hurdle is that the TWolves considered him fit to play. He must have passed a physical. The fact that he played fewer than 25 games for the TWolves does not seem material to whether he was fit to play. Instead, playing 25 games negates a previous unfit to play determination. But there wasn’t such a determination. |
I get what you're saying. But wouldn't it always be the case that a player would have to convince a team they were fit to play to attempt a comeback? In anticipation of that, the rule has a specific threshold of 25 games for when that comeback attempt nullifies the salary removal.
Deng last played for the Lakers in October of 2017. In September of 2018 he was waived. He attempted a comeback in 2018-19 which lasted 22 games. |
I understand the desire to make this work, but this strikes me as an attempt to fit a square peg in a round hole. I hope I'm wrong, because getting his salary off the books would be a plus.
Let's start by asking the most obvious question: What was the career-ending injury and when did it occur? Deng played 56 games in 2017, and his season did not end due to an injury. Here's an article from March 2017:
| Quote: | Deng, 31, and Mozgov, 30, had been replaced in the starting lineup and their playing time had been cut dramatically. Rather than play sporadically, sources told ESPN that Deng and Mozgov were comfortable with the decision to shut it down for the rest of the season after meeting individually with coach Luke Walton over the past few weeks.
While sources said the Lakers could revisit the situation with either player before the end of the season, the plan right now is for both to remain inactive. |
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18911909/los-angeles-lakers-shut-luol-deng-timofey-mozgov-remainder-season
Deng was on the roster for the entire 2018 season. I don't remember anyone saying that he couldn't play. On the contrary, it was a decision based on giving more playing time to the kids. Here's an article about Deng from February 2018:
| Quote: | The current freeze was finalized before the season in a meeting with Deng and Lakers officials. It was mutually decided that, instead of playing Deng just a few minutes of garbage time each night, he would just sit out entirely so younger players could get the minutes.
Said Deng: “How am I going to help the team going out there two minutes? If you’re trying to get younger, and you’re not using me to win games, just fill in those minutes with those young guys.”
Said coach Luke Walton: “It was mutually decided that would not be the best road for him.” |
https://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/la-sp-lakers-deng-plaschke-20180210-story.html
That doesn't sound like a guy who suffered a career-ending injury. Later, he gave the Lakers a discount on the buyout so that he could try to play for another team. He passed a physical to play for the TWolves.
So what was the career-ending injury? Being overpaid and mediocre is not a career-ending injury.
As for the 25 game provision, this applies only if Deng was already determined to have suffered a career-ending injury. That never happened, and as far as I can tell, it wasn't the case. While playing 25 more games would have negated the salary removal under the career-ending injury exception, playing fewer than 25 games does not trigger the exception.
If the front office pulls this off, I'll tip my cap to them. However, this seems like wishful thinking.
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Theseus
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| They're going to deny this for "basketball reasons" |
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AFireInside619
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Theseus wrote: | | They're going to deny this for "basketball reasons" |
100%. No way this gets through.
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Laker's Fan wrote: | | But if these two cases, save the medicals, the Mozgov case looks like a much farther stretch. |
Mozgov had a knee injury that was deemed to be career-ending. He had surgery on his knee while a member of the Magic. In fact, Mozgov blames the doctors for mis-diagnosing his injury:
https://www.eurohoops.net/en/fibawc/914858/timofey-mozgov-the-treatment-of-my-injury-was-not-quite-correct/
This is a material difference from the Deng situation.
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Anyone know how long until the League approves or disapproves our request? Can this take up to a month until we find out like the Magic and Mozgov situation? |
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danzag
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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| There's some people saying that Deng, while he was with Minny, had an achilles injury and retired soon after. |
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