Official RUSSELL WESTBROOK Thread (Traded to Utah)
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Dreamshake
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:34 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
But Westbrooks weaknesses in the playoffs have to be hidden and most coaches and system have not been able to.


They haven't been able to hide them because Westbrook doesn't feel like his inability to shoot or willingness to shoot less are weaknesses. He is the one that has to stop doing those things, and worry about playing defense more than getting rebounds.


I was looking for you! You disappeared on us for a while. Does this critique apply to Harden too?


No. Harden hasn’t been a defensive liability for years. Feel free to look at his numbers. He also can shoot and has no issue coming off the ball for others to do it. Feel free to look at his seasons not in Houston, including last year.

If you had Harden instead of Westbrook I’d guarantee ya a title barring health, just like everyone thought BRK was headed to last season if healthy. You disagree?
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:35 pm    Post subject:

Resist the haters everyone. Russ, AD and LBJ are future hall of famers. They are not idiots. They will find a way to make this work.

We are about to unload the most physically imposing team that this league has seen in a long time.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:20 pm    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
But Westbrooks weaknesses in the playoffs have to be hidden and most coaches and system have not been able to.


They haven't been able to hide them because Westbrook doesn't feel like his inability to shoot or willingness to shoot less are weaknesses. He is the one that has to stop doing those things, and worry about playing defense more than getting rebounds.


I was looking for you! You disappeared on us for a while. Does this critique apply to Harden too?


No. Harden hasn’t been a defensive liability for years. Feel free to look at his numbers. He also can shoot and has no issue coming off the ball for others to do it. Feel free to look at his seasons not in Houston, including last year.

If you had Harden instead of Westbrook I’d guarantee ya a title barring health, just like everyone thought BRK was headed to last season if healthy. You disagree?


harden lost me after he couldn't make it work with Cp3. that was a formidable squad too.. Harden ran Cp3 out of town.. so weird..
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DrDent
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:08 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
epic_ wrote:
PenG_ wrote:
The problem with Russ' 2021 numbers is he started off so poorly. The finish was incredible, and hopefully the player that comes to LA.


Some blog says he was hurt at the start.


Alright let's consider the last 28 games of the season when he was 'healthy' then.

Russell Westbrook last 28 games of season
23.3 PPG
13.5 REB
13.7 AST
1.5 STL
0.3 BLK
4.6 TOV
45.0% Field Goal%
33.1% Three Point%
71.3% Free Throw%

Wizards Record in that span 18-10

Alright, great right?

Now let's look what happened when the Playoffs came right after and he was forced into a half court set the majority of the time and teams schemed to play off him and let him shoot as much as he wanted but not in the paint. (as the Lakers did in the bubble)

19.0 PPG
10.4 REB
11.8 AST
0.4 STL
0.2 BLK
4.2 TOV
33.3% Field Goal%
25.0% Three Point%
79.1% Free Throw%

Results
Game 1 Loss: 7 Points
Game 2 Loss: 25 Points
Game 3 Loss: 29 Points
Game 4 Win: 8 Points
Game 5 Loss: 17 Points

here's what Bradley Beal was doing to try to get them past it

30.0 PPG
6.2 REB
4.2 AST
0.8 STL
0.6 BLK
4.0 TOV
45.5% Field Goal%
21.9% Three Point%
86.1% Free Throw%


Ugh.😑
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Lucky_Shot
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:24 pm    Post subject:

RW
AC
THT
LBJ
AD

Bench: Gasol

The starting lineup as of now (most likely)... Pretty good

There are reports of LBJ and AD shifting positions to play smaller and faster.
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CamReddish
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:31 pm    Post subject:

DrDent wrote:
MJST wrote:
epic_ wrote:
PenG_ wrote:
The problem with Russ' 2021 numbers is he started off so poorly. The finish was incredible, and hopefully the player that comes to LA.


Some blog says he was hurt at the start.


Alright let's consider the last 28 games of the season when he was 'healthy' then.

Russell Westbrook last 28 games of season
23.3 PPG
13.5 REB
13.7 AST
1.5 STL
0.3 BLK
4.6 TOV
45.0% Field Goal%
33.1% Three Point%
71.3% Free Throw%

Wizards Record in that span 18-10

Alright, great right?

Now let's look what happened when the Playoffs came right after and he was forced into a half court set the majority of the time and teams schemed to play off him and let him shoot as much as he wanted but not in the paint. (as the Lakers did in the bubble)

19.0 PPG
10.4 REB
11.8 AST
0.4 STL
0.2 BLK
4.2 TOV
33.3% Field Goal%
25.0% Three Point%
79.1% Free Throw%

Results
Game 1 Loss: 7 Points
Game 2 Loss: 25 Points
Game 3 Loss: 29 Points
Game 4 Win: 8 Points
Game 5 Loss: 17 Points

here's what Bradley Beal was doing to try to get them past it

30.0 PPG
6.2 REB
4.2 AST
0.8 STL
0.6 BLK
4.0 TOV
45.5% Field Goal%
21.9% Three Point%
86.1% Free Throw%


Ugh.😑


Wizards sucked as a team from a talent standpoint outside of those 2.
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eureca
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:00 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
epic_ wrote:
PenG_ wrote:
The problem with Russ' 2021 numbers is he started off so poorly. The finish was incredible, and hopefully the player that comes to LA.


Some blog says he was hurt at the start.


Alright let's consider the last 28 games of the season when he was 'healthy' then.

Russell Westbrook last 28 games of season
23.3 PPG
13.5 REB
13.7 AST
1.5 STL
0.3 BLK
4.6 TOV
45.0% Field Goal%
33.1% Three Point%
71.3% Free Throw%

Wizards Record in that span 18-10

Alright, great right?

Now let's look what happened when the Playoffs came right after and he was forced into a half court set the majority of the time and teams schemed to play off him and let him shoot as much as he wanted but not in the paint. (as the Lakers did in the bubble)

19.0 PPG
10.4 REB
11.8 AST
0.4 STL
0.2 BLK
4.2 TOV
33.3% Field Goal%
25.0% Three Point%
79.1% Free Throw%

Results
Game 1 Loss: 7 Points
Game 2 Loss: 25 Points
Game 3 Loss: 29 Points
Game 4 Win: 8 Points
Game 5 Loss: 17 Points

here's what Bradley Beal was doing to try to get them past it

30.0 PPG
6.2 REB
4.2 AST
0.8 STL
0.6 BLK
4.0 TOV
45.5% Field Goal%
21.9% Three Point%
86.1% Free Throw%


It's not 100% as black and white as those stats. Believe me I wouldn't be shocked if Westbrook played similar here, but it is worth noting he was injured in the playoffs. He sprained his ankle and was game time decisions pretty much every playoff game.

Westbrook being injured in the playoffs is not a new thing though. He seems to always get some sort of injury right as the playoffs start. Which is not a good sign. He seems to break down at the end of the season after giving 150% effort every game.

A lot was made of Westbrook being able to carry us in the regular season if Bron/AD are out. I think we need to look into load management with Westbrook so that we can get the most out of him the next two seasons. If he continues his streak of always getting hurt going into the playoffs then the Lakers won't have a chance anyways.
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slavavov
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:41 pm    Post subject:

eureca wrote:


Westbrook being injured in the playoffs is not a new thing though. He seems to always get some sort of injury right as the playoffs start. Which is not a good sign. He seems to break down at the end of the season after giving 150% effort every game.

A lot was made of Westbrook being able to carry us in the regular season if Bron/AD are out. I think we need to look into load management with Westbrook so that we can get the most out of him the next two seasons. If he continues his streak of always getting hurt going into the playoffs then the Lakers won't have a chance anyways.

A good thing about Westbrook is that he'll help preserve LeBron, and vice versa. They can keep each other fresh and maybe even add another year to their respective primes.

I'd keep Westbrook to 32 minutes a game in the regular season because of what you mentioned, and also because he's almost 33 now.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:58 am    Post subject:

LBJ23 wrote:
DrDent wrote:
MJST wrote:
epic_ wrote:
PenG_ wrote:
The problem with Russ' 2021 numbers is he started off so poorly. The finish was incredible, and hopefully the player that comes to LA.


Some blog says he was hurt at the start.


Alright let's consider the last 28 games of the season when he was 'healthy' then.

Russell Westbrook last 28 games of season
23.3 PPG
13.5 REB
13.7 AST
1.5 STL
0.3 BLK
4.6 TOV
45.0% Field Goal%
33.1% Three Point%
71.3% Free Throw%

Wizards Record in that span 18-10

Alright, great right?

Now let's look what happened when the Playoffs came right after and he was forced into a half court set the majority of the time and teams schemed to play off him and let him shoot as much as he wanted but not in the paint. (as the Lakers did in the bubble)

19.0 PPG
10.4 REB
11.8 AST
0.4 STL
0.2 BLK
4.2 TOV
33.3% Field Goal%
25.0% Three Point%
79.1% Free Throw%

Results
Game 1 Loss: 7 Points
Game 2 Loss: 25 Points
Game 3 Loss: 29 Points
Game 4 Win: 8 Points
Game 5 Loss: 17 Points

here's what Bradley Beal was doing to try to get them past it

30.0 PPG
6.2 REB
4.2 AST
0.8 STL
0.6 BLK
4.0 TOV
45.5% Field Goal%
21.9% Three Point%
86.1% Free Throw%


Ugh.😑


Wizards sucked as a team from a talent standpoint outside of those 2.


It was Russ, Beal and a bunch of g-league level guys. I don't look too far into his numbers other than he needs to find ways to be effective during crunch time when LeBron has the ball.

Also, IMO, Beal has become overrated. Scorer? Yes. True 1st or even 2nd option? Nope.
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Lucky_Shot
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 1:25 am    Post subject:

slavavov wrote:
eureca wrote:


Westbrook being injured in the playoffs is not a new thing though. He seems to always get some sort of injury right as the playoffs start. Which is not a good sign. He seems to break down at the end of the season after giving 150% effort every game.

A lot was made of Westbrook being able to carry us in the regular season if Bron/AD are out. I think we need to look into load management with Westbrook so that we can get the most out of him the next two seasons. If he continues his streak of always getting hurt going into the playoffs then the Lakers won't have a chance anyways.

A good thing about Westbrook is that he'll help preserve LeBron, and vice versa. They can keep each other fresh and maybe even add another year to their respective primes.

I'd keep Westbrook to 32 minutes a game in the regular season because of what you mentioned, and also because he's almost 33 now.


With the Lakers having three stars it will allow them to sit one of them and still win. We will be load managing more than ever
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slavavov
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 1:35 am    Post subject:

Lucky_Shot wrote:
slavavov wrote:
eureca wrote:


Westbrook being injured in the playoffs is not a new thing though. He seems to always get some sort of injury right as the playoffs start. Which is not a good sign. He seems to break down at the end of the season after giving 150% effort every game.

A lot was made of Westbrook being able to carry us in the regular season if Bron/AD are out. I think we need to look into load management with Westbrook so that we can get the most out of him the next two seasons. If he continues his streak of always getting hurt going into the playoffs then the Lakers won't have a chance anyways.

A good thing about Westbrook is that he'll help preserve LeBron, and vice versa. They can keep each other fresh and maybe even add another year to their respective primes.

I'd keep Westbrook to 32 minutes a game in the regular season because of what you mentioned, and also because he's almost 33 now.


With the Lakers having three stars it will allow them to sit one of them and still win. We will be load managing more than ever

We shouldn't be sitting these guys though just for "load management." Just reduce their minutes, then run teams out of the gym so that we'll have lots of garbage time to reduce their minutes even more in those contests that are blowouts.
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Batguano
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 1:36 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
But Westbrooks weaknesses in the playoffs have to be hidden and most coaches and system have not been able to.


They haven't been able to hide them because Westbrook doesn't feel like his inability to shoot or willingness to shoot less are weaknesses. He is the one that has to stop doing those things, and worry about playing defense more than getting rebounds.


I was looking for you! You disappeared on us for a while. Does this critique apply to Harden too?


No. Harden hasn’t been a defensive liability for years. Feel free to look at his numbers. He also can shoot and has no issue coming off the ball for others to do it. Feel free to look at his seasons not in Houston, including last year.

If you had Harden instead of Westbrook I’d guarantee ya a title barring health, just like everyone thought BRK was headed to last season if healthy. You disagree?


How about Harden showing up to training camp looking like a fat Rick Ross to force a trade and then squandering the first year of his team's small championship window by subsequently injuring himself?
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Lucky_Shot
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 1:46 am    Post subject:

slavavov wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
slavavov wrote:
eureca wrote:


Westbrook being injured in the playoffs is not a new thing though. He seems to always get some sort of injury right as the playoffs start. Which is not a good sign. He seems to break down at the end of the season after giving 150% effort every game.

A lot was made of Westbrook being able to carry us in the regular season if Bron/AD are out. I think we need to look into load management with Westbrook so that we can get the most out of him the next two seasons. If he continues his streak of always getting hurt going into the playoffs then the Lakers won't have a chance anyways.

A good thing about Westbrook is that he'll help preserve LeBron, and vice versa. They can keep each other fresh and maybe even add another year to their respective primes.

I'd keep Westbrook to 32 minutes a game in the regular season because of what you mentioned, and also because he's almost 33 now.


With the Lakers having three stars it will allow them to sit one of them and still win. We will be load managing more than ever

We shouldn't be sitting these guys though just for "load management." Just reduce their minutes, then run teams out of the gym so that we'll have lots of garbage time to reduce their minutes even more in those contests that are blowouts.


I disagree, I'm a big supporter of true load managing, and this last season is the biggest example of why you need to rest your stars.

Treat them like high paid MLB pitchers. LBJ AD and West need to sit out games to remain injury free through a brutal 82 game schedule


Last edited by Lucky_Shot on Sat Jul 31, 2021 1:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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slavavov
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 1:52 am    Post subject:

Lucky_Shot wrote:
slavavov wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:


With the Lakers having three stars it will allow them to sit one of them and still win. We will be load managing more than ever

We shouldn't be sitting these guys though just for "load management." Just reduce their minutes, then run teams out of the gym so that we'll have lots of garbage time to reduce their minutes even more in those contests that are blowouts.


I disagree, I have always advocated for true load managing, and this last season is the biggest example of why you need to rest your stars.

Treat them like high paid MLB pitchers. LBJ AD and West need to sit out games to survive a brutal 82 game schedule

If players from back in the day could survive a brutal 82 game schedule without sitting out games, these guys certainly can, especially with the benefit of modern medical technology and a more forgiving schedule.

Besides, it's unfair to fans who pay hard-earned money to go to games. How would a little kid who loves LeBron react if he went to his first NBA game to see him play, only to find out when he got to the arena that LeBron isn't playing because he doesn't feel like it? How would that kid feel about the NBA moving forward?

The NBA is a business, and a business needs to treat its customers well, lest they lose those customers forever. Ratings are already too low as it is.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 2:00 am    Post subject:

slavavov wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
slavavov wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:


With the Lakers having three stars it will allow them to sit one of them and still win. We will be load managing more than ever

We shouldn't be sitting these guys though just for "load management." Just reduce their minutes, then run teams out of the gym so that we'll have lots of garbage time to reduce their minutes even more in those contests that are blowouts.


I disagree, I have always advocated for true load managing, and this last season is the biggest example of why you need to rest your stars.

Treat them like high paid MLB pitchers. LBJ AD and West need to sit out games to survive a brutal 82 game schedule

If players from back in the day could survive a brutal 82 game schedule without sitting out games, these guys certainly can, especially with the benefit of modern medical technology and a more forgiving schedule.

Besides, it's unfair to fans who pay hard-earned money to go to games. How would a little kid who loves LeBron react if he went to his first NBA game to see him play, only to find out when he got to the arena that LeBron isn't playing because he doesn't feel like it? How would that kid feel about the NBA moving forward?

The NBA is a business, and a business needs to treat its customers well, lest they lose those customers forever. Ratings are already too low as it is.


I only care about number 18. I personally think load managing is a critical tool to use. Everything else you mention comes second to that
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 2:07 am    Post subject:

Quote:
@statmuse
21 de abr

Russell Westbrook in the clutch:

105 PTS (5th in NBA)
59.1 FG% (1st)
40.9 3P%

He is the most efficient clutch scorer this season with 65.9 eFG%.



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:06 am    Post subject:

It kind of reminds me of a co-worker, who was very competitive, and wanted to lose some weight. He is at a party with one of his friends, and over drinks, they decide to bet each other $500 to see who could lose the most weight between Halloween and New Years Day.

My co-worker proceeded to eat pretty much nothing but salad and water for three months, because, health, hunger, happiness be damned, he was not going to lose.

I think Russ is exhibit 1A for this type of behavior. He is finally back in Los Angeles, he gets to play for the Lakers. He wants to win a ring, and Lebron wants another one.

All the ingredients are there for each player to sacrifice a little to win a ring.

I try not to complain about scrubs making minimum NBA wage, my radar gets going when a guy is getting paid and doesn't produce. Russ has flaws, but one thing you can say for him is he does not phone it in. This is not Deng, Brian Grant, Bynum, Green examples of Lakers who wanted to get paid but didn't want to work hard or care if they played well.

Russ may be the most obsessive player in the league since Kobe Bryant.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:42 am    Post subject:

Lucky_Shot wrote:
slavavov wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
slavavov wrote:
eureca wrote:


Westbrook being injured in the playoffs is not a new thing though. He seems to always get some sort of injury right as the playoffs start. Which is not a good sign. He seems to break down at the end of the season after giving 150% effort every game.

A lot was made of Westbrook being able to carry us in the regular season if Bron/AD are out. I think we need to look into load management with Westbrook so that we can get the most out of him the next two seasons. If he continues his streak of always getting hurt going into the playoffs then the Lakers won't have a chance anyways.

A good thing about Westbrook is that he'll help preserve LeBron, and vice versa. They can keep each other fresh and maybe even add another year to their respective primes.

I'd keep Westbrook to 32 minutes a game in the regular season because of what you mentioned, and also because he's almost 33 now.


With the Lakers having three stars it will allow them to sit one of them and still win. We will be load managing more than ever

We shouldn't be sitting these guys though just for "load management." Just reduce their minutes, then run teams out of the gym so that we'll have lots of garbage time to reduce their minutes even more in those contests that are blowouts.


I disagree, I'm a big supporter of true load managing, and this last season is the biggest example of why you need to rest your stars.

Treat them like high paid MLB pitchers. LBJ AD and West need to sit out games to remain injury free through a brutal 82 game schedule


I don't mind load management, but look what happened to the king of load management, Kawhi. There was a lot of load management around the league, and there ended up being more injured stars than ever. The Nets tried it, we see what happened to them. AD sat out half the season, look what happened to him. I'm not so sure load management does any good, it's possible players are more likely to get hurt if they're not in proper shape and rhythm from playing regularly.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:46 am    Post subject:

Westbrook is a player of extremes.

In one hand he's probably the worst 3pt shooter in the NBA history if you somehow consider 3pt% and volume; pretty much anyone shooting below 30% shouldn't be taking more than 1 per game. His finishing around the rim should be better for someone that drives that much. His FT% is terrible for a PG. His defense is meh, at best

One the other hand, he's a great playmaker (top in APG), excellent in transition (I reckon only LBJ and Giannis are better), proven to be clutch and hardnosed af. Oh, and a great rebounder (no, not all his 10+ RPG are completely open).

One can choose to focus on the negatives, or on the positives. Fact is, both analysis will be narrow.

I'd rather had another name as a 3rd star, like Dame, Beal or Butler, but All Stars are not available at your local Costco, so my concern is how are we gonna build the roster and how can LeBron/Vogel influence, so we mitigate all the Cons RW has,
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:25 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
But Westbrooks weaknesses in the playoffs have to be hidden and most coaches and system have not been able to.


They haven't been able to hide them because Westbrook doesn't feel like his inability to shoot or willingness to shoot less are weaknesses. He is the one that has to stop doing those things, and worry about playing defense more than getting rebounds.


I was looking for you! You disappeared on us for a while. Does this critique apply to Harden too?


No. Harden hasn’t been a defensive liability for years. Feel free to look at his numbers. He also can shoot and has no issue coming off the ball for others to do it. Feel free to look at his seasons not in Houston, including last year.

If you had Harden instead of Westbrook I’d guarantee ya a title barring health, just like everyone thought BRK was headed to last season if healthy. You disagree?


This most recent year was the first time in a loooong time Harden's stats didn't crater in the playoffs. But he did miss a 1/3 of the games.

I'd much rather have WB as a 3rd option than Harden. That guy has the yips when he's needed most. And now that WB isn't carrying a team to the playoffs. I expect his raw stats to go down (Points, Rebounds, Assists) but his efficiency and defense to go up.
If you look at Harden's regular season stats vs. playoff stats. Or if you just look at anecdotal evidence (NBA Finals choke job, Ginobli block, his stats in close out games). The truth is self evident.

I mean you said he can shoot unlike Westbrook. He's a career 33% 3pt shooter in the playoffs. Sure that's better than WB's 30%. But not something to brag about.
And WB has better Rebounding and assisting stats in the playoffs (including Ast/TO).

I also think, now that Harden is in Brooklyn. He's far less likely to play hurt than WB.

Edit: Also, I watched alot of BRK games this year. Harden did not take alot of catch and shoot 3s. I saw him pound the hell out of the ball and take step backs. But very few catch and shoots. I don't have time to look up the stats now, but I will later today. So the "he's better off ball" stuff wasn't really born out this year in BRK. He was the 1 guy who wasn't off ball alot.
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Last edited by kikanga on Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:47 am; edited 3 times in total
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:42 am    Post subject:

coldzim wrote:
Quote:
@statmuse
21 de abr

Russell Westbrook in the clutch:

105 PTS (5th in NBA)
59.1 FG% (1st)
40.9 3P%

He is the most efficient clutch scorer this season with 65.9 eFG%.





Stop that!
We can only post stats that show Russ in a negative light. 🤣

I'm not a fan on how people define clutch, but those numbers are pretty surprising in a good way.
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alleyoop
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 7:14 am    Post subject:

The reality is, we were a pretty good team this year with Schroder as our starting PG (bar injuries). Westbrook is literally an upgraded Schroder in so many ways

In regards to who we've lost, the only one of great importance is KCP (who I hope we'll be able to replace). Trezz was not in our playoff rotation, and Kuz's impact - specifically for how the Lakers are structured - can be replaced with a vet min guy (although I think he'll average similar to his 18-19 numbers if he stays with the Wizards)

It's hard to say that Westbrook, IF we put the right pieces around him, won't be a valuable piece. Is he a gamble? Absolutely. Could it pay off big-time? Also absolutely
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epic_
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 7:16 am    Post subject:

Could Russell be the best point guard we've had since Magic?
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 7:27 am    Post subject:

epic_ wrote:
Could Russell be the best point guard we've had since Magic?


Yes.
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KingKobe20
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 7:29 am    Post subject:

Ruusell Westbrook 41 points,10 Assists, and 8 Rebounds in a Clutch Win VS the Brooklyn Nets
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