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joeblow
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 Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | joeblow wrote: | | Why would the starting lineup be decided before training camp? Did the Lakers learn all they need to know from Lebron's mini camp in Vegas, or is this mostly speculation on the reporter's part? |
Nothing has been “decided” it is all speculation based on the writer’s or fans personal opinion of what should happen. |
The article says the information is "according to sources."
Theoretically, Vogel himself could have told the reporter that he was pretty sure he was going to start those 5 guys. So just because he uses the word "likely" that doesn't mean he's speculating.
However, the reporter doesn't give us any clues who the sources are and how reliable the information is, so the value of the information depends on the value and reliability you place on the reporter. He's from a good publication, so I suspect he has some genuine basis for the information. |
Good point. While "likely" is a form of speculation, you're correct in that it came from "sources" and not the reporter.
Which brings me back to my original question... if the original sources are Laker decison makers, why focus on that now instead of after training camp or maybe even pre-season? Make the players other than Lebron/AD/WB battle it out during that time for the starting positions. |
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MIMLaker
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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Thinking the lineup will be:
Russ - I think Vogel's going have be the tip of the spear on defense and go after opposing PGs more than he has in years. Several reasons: (1) his physical strength advantage would make him more effective than either Shroo or Bradley were; (2) it would be a way to get Russ more easy buckets, whether on his own or off sloppy passes by opponents; (3) with AD/ Dwight/ DAJ behind him, he has high-level rim protection he hasn't had in nearly a decade.
Ellington - Highest volume shooter and highest percentage behind the arc (last 5 years) that we have . No good having that kind of volume if he's coming off the bench in 4 to 6 minute spurts and can't get a rhythm.
LeBron - Duh. Again, need to save HIS wear & tear down the stretch.
AD - Still at the 4, because he's still te best matchup there.
DeAndre - I think Coach likes his two-big set-up too much to limit it to reserve squads, and that he understands the need to preserve even a healthy and more imposing AD over the long haul. Dwight will get saved for reserves due to his better mobility and better team-player mindset. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| joeblow wrote: |
Which brings me back to my original question... if the original sources are Laker decison makers, why focus on that now instead of after training camp or maybe even pre-season? Make the players other than Lebron/AD/WB battle it out during that time for the starting positions. |
I'm not reading as much into this article as some people. Training camp starts in a few days, and the first preseason game starts in a week. It's not surprising that Vogel has given thought to what starting lineup he wants to try out first.
Even if he uses this as the initial starting lineup in preseason, it doesn't even mean it will still be the starting lineup when the regular season begins.
The only guarantee is that Lebron, AD and Westbrook will start on opening day. |
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Car54
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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The Lakers will move forward with DeAndre Jordan and Dwight Howard, but neither are likely to start.
Anthony Davis is expected to be the starting center allowing for a Russ, Ellington, Ariza, LeBron, AD starting lineup.
THT will compete for a starting spot.
(@ShamsCharania)
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PlantedTanks
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| I wonder if playing center is better for AD's health? He won't be chasing more agile PF's around the court and with the devaluation of big big's he won't be bodying up against many heavyweights. For the Jokic;s, Embid's, Nurkics match up with DJ and DH. I would like to see AD add more to his offensive perimeter game and he should be less contested as he moves away from the lane. |
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scout_0
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| PlantedTanks wrote: | | I wonder if playing center is better for AD's health? He won't be chasing more agile PF's around the court and with the devaluation of big big's he won't be bodying up against many heavyweights. For the Jokic;s, Embid's, Nurkics match up with DJ and DH. I would like to see AD add more to his offensive perimeter game and he should be less contested as he moves away from the lane. |
AD will be our Bosh  |
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PlantedTanks
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| scout_0 wrote: | | PlantedTanks wrote: | | I wonder if playing center is better for AD's health? He won't be chasing more agile PF's around the court and with the devaluation of big big's he won't be bodying up against many heavyweights. For the Jokic;s, Embid's, Nurkics match up with DJ and DH. I would like to see AD add more to his offensive perimeter game and he should be less contested as he moves away from the lane. |
AD will be our Bosh |
A better version and that is saying something as Bosh was a stud. |
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Japago
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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Not a fan of the reported started lineup.
My 2 guys would be Nunn and Bazemore. Bazemore is a better 3 and D guy than Ariza at this point, and Nunn is a proven scorer. Maybe Nunn is needed as a 6th man, but I think those 2 and the big 3 are the 5 best guys the Lakers can put on the court at the same time. I'm not sure what Ariza has left at this point, and Ellington seems to only bring shooting to the table.
I'm hoping Nunn, Bazemore, Monk, Melo, and THT are the stand-out guys from the supporting cast. Howard, Jordan, Ariza, Ellington, and Rondo should have smaller roles at this point in their careers. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| PlantedTanks wrote: | | I wonder if playing center is better for AD's health? He won't be chasing more agile PF's around the court and with the devaluation of big big's he won't be bodying up against many heavyweights. For the Jokic;s, Embid's, Nurkics match up with DJ and DH. I would like to see AD add more to his offensive perimeter game and he should be less contested as he moves away from the lane. |
I doubt it really matters all that much, from a health perspective, whether he is a 4 or 5. Since he can get hurt or stay healthy at either the 4 or 5, there will never be a way to really know. |
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scout_0
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:11 am Post subject: |
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| PlantedTanks wrote: | | scout_0 wrote: | | PlantedTanks wrote: | | I wonder if playing center is better for AD's health? He won't be chasing more agile PF's around the court and with the devaluation of big big's he won't be bodying up against many heavyweights. For the Jokic;s, Embid's, Nurkics match up with DJ and DH. I would like to see AD add more to his offensive perimeter game and he should be less contested as he moves away from the lane. |
AD will be our Bosh |
A better version and that is saying something as Bosh was a stud. |
Of course. Without Bosh Miami wouldn't have those rings. |
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Car54
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:43 am Post subject: |
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| Japago wrote: | Not a fan of the reported started lineup.
My 2 guys would be Nunn and Bazemore. Bazemore is a better 3 and D guy than Ariza at this point, and Nunn is a proven scorer. Maybe Nunn is needed as a 6th man, but I think those 2 and the big 3 are the 5 best guys the Lakers can put on the court at the same time. I'm not sure what Ariza has left at this point, and Ellington seems to only bring shooting to the table.
I'm hoping Nunn, Bazemore, Monk, Melo, and THT are the stand-out guys from the supporting cast. Howard, Jordan, Ariza, Ellington, and Rondo should have smaller roles at this point in their careers. |
Nunn is a better scorer but don’t you agree he would be a better fit with Lebron off the floor? With two ball dominate players on the floor it would be harder for Nunn to find his rhythm.
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Megaton
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| Car54 wrote: | | Japago wrote: | Not a fan of the reported started lineup.
My 2 guys would be Nunn and Bazemore. Bazemore is a better 3 and D guy than Ariza at this point, and Nunn is a proven scorer. Maybe Nunn is needed as a 6th man, but I think those 2 and the big 3 are the 5 best guys the Lakers can put on the court at the same time. I'm not sure what Ariza has left at this point, and Ellington seems to only bring shooting to the table.
I'm hoping Nunn, Bazemore, Monk, Melo, and THT are the stand-out guys from the supporting cast. Howard, Jordan, Ariza, Ellington, and Rondo should have smaller roles at this point in their careers. |
Nunn is a better scorer but don’t you agree he would be a better fit with Lebron off the floor? With two ball dominate players on the floor it would be harder for Nunn to find his rhythm. |
Nunn is also a PG, not a SG. So him with Westbrook makes no sense.
This lineup is pretty close to what I expected. Ellington especially. Bazemore was never a serious consideration to start imo. Not sure why people were so adamant about an inconsistent shooter and undersized SF playing....SF.
Ellington makes a lot of sense since he would get the most out of playing with Lebron and Westbrook. He's basically KCP on offense. Although I'm looking to see Monk eventually compete and eventually outplay him for that spot later in the season.
Ariza I sorta understand because he is our only legit wing player. Although I expect THT if he does improves, to take over eventually. And make Ariza more our Iggy off the bench kind of role.
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:24 am Post subject: |
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| PlantedTanks wrote: | | scout_0 wrote: | | PlantedTanks wrote: | | I wonder if playing center is better for AD's health? He won't be chasing more agile PF's around the court and with the devaluation of big big's he won't be bodying up against many heavyweights. For the Jokic;s, Embid's, Nurkics match up with DJ and DH. I would like to see AD add more to his offensive perimeter game and he should be less contested as he moves away from the lane. |
AD will be our Bosh |
A better version and that is saying something as Bosh was a stud. |
To be fair, Bosh and the Big Three were also in their primes and playing 36-38mpg. The energy, effort and athleticism at a different level then the Lakers current Big Three.
Miami also had some tough defensive minded role players to play that C/PF position to take some of the pressure off of Bosh in the paint. Same as I would like to see Jordan and Howard take some of that off Davis. Not sure I see the equivalent of Haslem currently on the Lakers. Are they even Anthony, Ilguaskas level? TBD.
I am just not seeing Davis playing C mins or James primarily PF. Takes both out of the roles they excel at and IMO their comfort levels as players.
I see a lot of different lineups all season long as Vogel tinkers. Still thinking a second unit of Nunn, Monk, THT, Melo, Howard could intriguing as hell. Also not seeing Ellington as anything other then a specialist to be used in specific situation, a starter? No way. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:34 am Post subject: |
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| PlantedTanks wrote: | | I wonder if playing center is better for AD's health? He won't be chasing more agile PF's around the court and with the devaluation of big big's he won't be bodying up against many heavyweights. For the Jokic;s, Embid's, Nurkics match up with DJ and DH. I would like to see AD add more to his offensive perimeter game and he should be less contested as he moves away from the lane. |
I doubt that it will make much of a difference. AD has played center and PF throughout his career and his injuries and pains have been fairly consistent. I don’t think him playing center instead of PF makes much difference defensively but it could on offense, keeping him closer to the basket would be better.
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PlantedTanks
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:51 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | PlantedTanks wrote: | | I wonder if playing center is better for AD's health? He won't be chasing more agile PF's around the court and with the devaluation of big big's he won't be bodying up against many heavyweights. For the Jokic;s, Embid's, Nurkics match up with DJ and DH. I would like to see AD add more to his offensive perimeter game and he should be less contested as he moves away from the lane. |
I doubt that it will make much of a difference. AD has played center and PF throughout his career and his injuries and pains have been fairly consistent. I don’t think him playing center instead of PF makes much difference defensively but it could on offense, keeping him closer to the basket would be better. |
Just trying to think back on how AD seems to get injured and while I may be mistaken I believe it is on both offensive and defensive plays where he is extending himself with a forward jump and lands awkwardly Playing C I felt required less of these actions and consequently less stress on his body. |
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PlantedTanks
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| Megaton wrote: | | Car54 wrote: | | Japago wrote: | Not a fan of the reported started lineup.
My 2 guys would be Nunn and Bazemore. Bazemore is a better 3 and D guy than Ariza at this point, and Nunn is a proven scorer. Maybe Nunn is needed as a 6th man, but I think those 2 and the big 3 are the 5 best guys the Lakers can put on the court at the same time. I'm not sure what Ariza has left at this point, and Ellington seems to only bring shooting to the table.
I'm hoping Nunn, Bazemore, Monk, Melo, and THT are the stand-out guys from the supporting cast. Howard, Jordan, Ariza, Ellington, and Rondo should have smaller roles at this point in their careers. |
Nunn is a better scorer but don’t you agree he would be a better fit with Lebron off the floor? With two ball dominate players on the floor it would be harder for Nunn to find his rhythm. |
Nunn is also a PG, not a SG. So him with Westbrook makes no sense.
This lineup is pretty close to what I expected. Ellington especially. Bazemore was never a serious consideration to start imo. Not sure why people were so adamant about an inconsistent shooter and undersized SF playing....SF.
Ellington makes a lot of sense since he would get the most out of playing with Lebron and Westbrook. He's basically KCP on offense. Although I'm looking to see Monk eventually compete and eventually outplay him for that spot later in the season.
Ariza I sorta understand because he is our only legit wing player. Although I expect THT if he does improves, to take over eventually. And make Ariza more our Iggy off the bench kind of role. |
Nunn is not a PG. He is functional in being able to bring the ball up and pass off to a teammate to start the play. He will not create open looks for his teammates, make advanced passes or be able to pass his teammates open. In a PG sense he is similar to THT and AC.
He is a pure scorer who is able to shoot the 3 with efficiency. Being a draft enthusiast I did check him out in college as he was a high scoring 25.9 ppg prospect who took over 11 3pt attempts per game his senior season. If you look at his stats his assists numbers are below average. He had an off court issue that most likely affected him in not being drafted.
Many will stereotype him as a PG due to his height which is listed at 6'2" or 6'3" on the net but there are quite a few of those who proliferate the league as offensive schemes have turned to 4 out spacing and in some cases 5 out. The Lakers have been the antithesis of this but I hope they reach a more balanced approach this season.
Besides last season Ellington's 3pt % normally fluctuates in the mid to high 30 percentile range. Maybe playing with Lebron and RW will give him the open looks to shoot similarly to last year but I won't bet on it.
For those questioning Nunn's height Monk measured 6'3" in shoes. Was last season an outlier for Monk? His past off court issues is a major concern and I hope he has the support and will to keep clean. |
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King Randle
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Car54 wrote: | The Lakers will move forward with DeAndre Jordan and Dwight Howard, but neither are likely to start.
Anthony Davis is expected to be the starting center allowing for a Russ, Ellington, Ariza, LeBron, AD starting lineup.
THT will compete for a starting spot.
(@ShamsCharania) |
Today AD said he still prefers to play the 4...but he'll start some games at the 5...Dwight and Jordan will start other games based on match-up. This according to AD.
I see it the same way....it'll be based on match-ups. |
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Big Shot Bob
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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Ellington and Ariza is an interesting choice... could work if Ariza can still be a disruptor on defense and Ellington can reliably nail open jumpers.
Looking forward to seeing the first preseason game on Sunday! |
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32
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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I'm warming up to Wayne Ellington in the starting lineup. Initially I thought Bazemore. Baze is a better defender but Wayne is a better shooter.
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King Randle
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| Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:48 am Post subject: |
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| 32 wrote: | | I'm warming up to Wayne Ellington in the starting lineup. Initially I thought Bazemore. Baze is a better defender but Wayne is a better shooter. |
He may b the starting SG in the beginning but I don't think he'll stick...he's never been a proven shooter on a championship caliber team and I don't see it happening here. And I find him to be a slow defender. Hope I'm wrong...but I see Baze, Monk and THT impressing more in practice and games and one of those 3 will end up starting as the season progresses. |
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DLaker
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| Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 6:34 am Post subject: |
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https://youtube.com/shorts/f4AhLDj5ZcQ?feature=share
LBJ mentioned 6 God, just for fun tried to match it with Comic Characters
LBJ - Superman
AD - Ironman
RW - Black Panther
Rondo - Captain America
Carmelo - Batman
Dwight - Hulk |
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Car54
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| Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:03 am Post subject: |
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| King Randle wrote: | | 32 wrote: | | I'm warming up to Wayne Ellington in the starting lineup. Initially I thought Bazemore. Baze is a better defender but Wayne is a better shooter. |
He may b the starting SG in the beginning but I don't think he'll stick...he's never been a proven shooter on a championship caliber team and I don't see it happening here. And I find him to be a slow defender. Hope I'm wrong...but I see Baze, Monk and THT impressing more in practice and games and one of those 3 will end up starting as the season progresses. |
Uh? He’s a proven shooter who cares if he played on a championship team.
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King Randle
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| Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:56 am Post subject: |
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| Car54 wrote: | | King Randle wrote: | | 32 wrote: | | I'm warming up to Wayne Ellington in the starting lineup. Initially I thought Bazemore. Baze is a better defender but Wayne is a better shooter. |
He may b the starting SG in the beginning but I don't think he'll stick...he's never been a proven shooter on a championship caliber team and I don't see it happening here. And I find him to be a slow defender. Hope I'm wrong...but I see Baze, Monk and THT impressing more in practice and games and one of those 3 will end up starting as the season progresses. |
Uh? He’s a proven shooter who cares if he played on a championship team. |
Big difference when you're asked to hit big shots when it counts. Ask Danny Green and his family....Or Wes last year. Ellington has been on 10 teams in 12 years....journey guy. But I'm willing to see how he does.... |
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BandwagonLBJhopper
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| Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:32 am Post subject: |
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I think we might be overthinking the AD at PF/C stuff - most of the bigs today are not true legit bigs who can hurt you. Outside of Jokic and Ayton, who else can even challenge him?
Same with Lebron, he is bigger than most of the PF's out there and certainly more agile/quicker, great rebounder when he needs to be. It's a non-issue for him against 99% of the PF's in today's league. |
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AFireInside619
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| Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:44 am Post subject: |
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| DLaker wrote: | https://youtube.com/shorts/f4AhLDj5ZcQ?feature=share
LBJ mentioned 6 God, just for fun tried to match it with Comic Characters
LBJ - Superman
AD - Ironman
RW - Black Panther
Rondo - Captain America
Carmelo - Batman
Dwight - Hulk |
lol. AD is definitely not “Ironman”. That was KCP 😢.
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