Joined: 03 Oct 2003 Posts: 8442 Location: Santa Monica
Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2024 7:34 pm Post subject:
Sometimes trading for a guy like Murray, who seems to have the qualities we lack and need, can be like a shot of adrenaline. If the Lakers figure out how to start winning games on the regular in the meantime, maybe we can finish better than 7th or 6th.
Remember how much we climbed the standings last season in just 6-8 weeks? We still have 12-13 weeks left in this season. _________________ Lakers 49ers Chargers Dodgers
Sometimes trading for a guy like Murray, who seems to have the qualities we lack and need, can be like a shot of adrenaline. If the Lakers figure out how to start winning games on the regular in the meantime, maybe we can finish better than 7th or 6th.
Remember how much we climbed the standings last season in just 6-8 weeks? We still have 12-13 weeks left in this season.
But not giving the farm…lol sometimes the best trade you make is the one you don’t make…
Joined: 03 Oct 2003 Posts: 8442 Location: Santa Monica
Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2024 8:21 pm Post subject:
samnizam wrote:
slavavov wrote:
Sometimes trading for a guy like Murray, who seems to have the qualities we lack and need, can be like a shot of adrenaline. If the Lakers figure out how to start winning games on the regular in the meantime, maybe we can finish better than 7th or 6th.
Remember how much we climbed the standings last season in just 6-8 weeks? We still have 12-13 weeks left in this season.
But not giving the farm…lol sometimes the best trade you make is the one you don’t make…
Of course we shouldn't give up the farm. But we shouldn't go to the other extreme and make anyone besides LeBron and AD untouchable.
This could and probably will be out last shot at winning another chip with LeBron. We need to do everything we can to make it happen, within reason of course. _________________ Lakers 49ers Chargers Dodgers
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144537 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2024 8:32 pm Post subject:
kikanga wrote:
kikanga wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
kikanga wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
^
I can buy in the Reaves for Murray deal. Even if I'll say I would miss Austin, and much prefer to move AD for longterm assets and let Austin, Rui+ young assets run buck wild for a wee bit until we re-build.
I just don't see why Atlanta buys into that Austin/Murray deal. They get the lesser player. We would have to add something. They are not in a desperation to make a deal. Murray is locked in.
Lets see what Rob Lowe can cook up.
Quote:
He turned Westbrook into a WC finals rotation last year.
Maybe it's not, this trade. Or Lavine. But maybe Rob does it again.
There were 4 picks involved in that.
2027 1st round pick to Utah. (To get DLO, Vando, Beasley)
2023, 2028, 2029 pick to Washington. (To get Rui)
It took 4 future assets, although arguably only the 2027 pick is truly valuable. They're playing with fire here.
To keep giving up future assets to move from 11th-12th in the standings to 7th is what mediocre franchises do IMO.
I don't care what place we enter the playoffs in. I just care what we do when we get there.
Bron and Brow got us to the WC finals last year. They deserve another shot.
What do you think the odds are those picks equal a future LBJ and Brow?
Without picks there is no AD in LA. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Murray is clearly in upgrade on both ends but I think any player they bring in needs to be able to do the majority of thier damage from beyond 3. Also, trading away Dlo and Rui is kinda dumb. Who’s going to space the floor for AD and Bron come playoff time besides Prince?
Murray does the majority of his damage from midrange and at the basket. He’s only shot well from 3 on volume once and that’s this season. Idk about this trade it might ruin us.
On the other hand paying Levine 40 mill for the next few years doesn’t seem so smart either. I’d only do that trade if I can keep Dlo to pair with him. Now our spacing is much improved imo. _________________ “like I never left”
You guys forget how good Murray is. He's locked into a very good contract (4/$120M)
People overrate Murray far more. They look at his one season in San Antonio and think that's who you're getting. Without Popovich what you're getting is who ATL has. There's a reason the league knows the Spurs fleeced Atlanta and why Atlanta wants to get rid of him.
You think Atlanta wants to break him and Trae up this fast for no reason?
He's not worth Reaves/DLO.
zambia wrote:
The Lakers need Murray.
If they want to lose more games and get fleeced like the Hawks did, yeah.
I watched a couple of his game, and he looks the same player the Spurs traded. His best season with the Spurs is actually pretty similar with the Hawks. Sure there's a drop off on assist but that's more because of playing 2nd fiddle next to high usage guy like Trae.
His defense also has taken a major hit playing along side a pedestrian like Trae. Atlanta is never been known to be some defensive team. I know one thing for sure. Teams won't hunt down Murray like they do with AR and DLO.
ATL pretty much realized that the Murray/Trae duo is not going to work. They would prefer to trade Murray, because of the backlash they would receive trading Trae who they picked ahead of Luka.
Murray is the better bargain out of the 2... Borderline allstar caliber all defensive guy at about $26m per next 5 years.
Last edited by miggz23 on Fri Jan 12, 2024 8:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
You guys forget how good Murray is. He's locked into a very good contract (4/$120M)
People overrate Murray far more. They look at his one season in San Antonio and think that's who you're getting. Without Popovich what you're getting is who ATL has. There's a reason the league knows the Spurs fleeced Atlanta and why Atlanta wants to get rid of him.
You think Atlanta wants to break him and Trae up this fast for no reason?
He's not worth Reaves/DLO.
zambia wrote:
The Lakers need Murray.
If they want to lose more games and get fleeced like the Hawks did, yeah.
I watched a couple of his game, and he looks the same player the Spurs traded. His best season with the Spurs is actually pretty similar with the Hawks. Sure there's a drop off on assist but that's more because of playing 2nd fiddle next to high usage guy like Trae.
His defense also has taken a major hit playing along side a pedestrian like Trae. Atlanta is never been known to be some defensive team. I know one thing for sure. Teams won't hunt down Murray like they do with AR and DLO.
AR failed at starting SG to start the year. AR is failing at starting PG now but grades different than Dlo.
At the end of the day since going to ATL Murray has been forced to be a sg but he’s a better starting 2 than AR on both ends and he was an all star 1 that is better as a Spur and according to his natural position.
Murray has out played him this year. No one can say AR to Murray is a downgrade on either end of the court.
You guys forget how good Murray is. He's locked into a very good contract (4/$120M)
People overrate Murray far more. They look at his one season in San Antonio and think that's who you're getting. Without Popovich what you're getting is who ATL has. There's a reason the league knows the Spurs fleeced Atlanta and why Atlanta wants to get rid of him.
You think Atlanta wants to break him and Trae up this fast for no reason?
He's not worth Reaves/DLO.
zambia wrote:
The Lakers need Murray.
If they want to lose more games and get fleeced like the Hawks did, yeah.
I watched a couple of his game, and he looks the same player the Spurs traded. His best season with the Spurs is actually pretty similar with the Hawks. Sure there's a drop off on assist but that's more because of playing 2nd fiddle next to high usage guy like Trae.
His defense also has taken a major hit playing along side a pedestrian like Trae. Atlanta is never been known to be some defensive team. I know one thing for sure. Teams won't hunt down Murray like they do with AR and DLO.
AR failed at starting SG to start the year. AR is failing at starting PG now but grades different than Dlo.
At the end of the day since going to ATL Murray has been forced to be a sg but he’s a better starting 2 than AR on both ends and he was an all star 1 that is better as a Spur and according to his natural position.
Murray has out played him this year. No one can say AR to Murray is a downgrade on either end of the court.
Yup pretty much... Don't get me wrong I like Murray, but I'm not willing to gut the team for him alone. His salary should be low enough that the Lakers won't have to throw in a bunch of salaries to make it work, like they would do in a Lavine trade.
There's some packages we can offer to ATL for Murray alone, that we might be able to keep one or two of DLO/AR/Rui.
AR/JHS/Pick
DLO/Picks
Rui/JHS/Picks
If ATL wants a bigger package deal involving 2-3 of those guys. I think that's when you start asking ATL throw in players like Capela/Bogdonovic/Bey/Okongwu to be included.
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29553 Location: La La Land
Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2024 10:50 pm Post subject:
venturalakersfan wrote:
kikanga wrote:
kikanga wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
kikanga wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
^
I can buy in the Reaves for Murray deal. Even if I'll say I would miss Austin, and much prefer to move AD for longterm assets and let Austin, Rui+ young assets run buck wild for a wee bit until we re-build.
I just don't see why Atlanta buys into that Austin/Murray deal. They get the lesser player. We would have to add something. They are not in a desperation to make a deal. Murray is locked in.
Lets see what Rob Lowe can cook up.
Quote:
He turned Westbrook into a WC finals rotation last year.
Maybe it's not, this trade. Or Lavine. But maybe Rob does it again.
There were 4 picks involved in that.
2027 1st round pick to Utah. (To get DLO, Vando, Beasley)
2023, 2028, 2029 pick to Washington. (To get Rui)
It took 4 future assets, although arguably only the 2027 pick is truly valuable. They're playing with fire here.
To keep giving up future assets to move from 11th-12th in the standings to 7th is what mediocre franchises do IMO.
I don't care what place we enter the playoffs in. I just care what we do when we get there.
Bron and Brow got us to the WC finals last year. They deserve another shot.
What do you think the odds are those picks equal a future LBJ and Brow?
Without picks there is no AD in LA.
That and getting Bron beforehand. And him strong arming his way out of NOLA.
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Tearing down and rebuilding when you were just in the conference finals. It's not pragmatic. There is no guarantee we get that far in the playoffs with said rebuild.
If we flame out this year. And don't make it that far. That changes things. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
You guys forget how good Murray is. He's locked into a very good contract (4/$120M)
People overrate Murray far more. They look at his one season in San Antonio and think that's who you're getting. Without Popovich what you're getting is who ATL has. There's a reason the league knows the Spurs fleeced Atlanta and why Atlanta wants to get rid of him.
You think Atlanta wants to break him and Trae up this fast for no reason?
He's not worth Reaves/DLO.
zambia wrote:
The Lakers need Murray.
If they want to lose more games and get fleeced like the Hawks did, yeah.
I watched a couple of his game, and he looks the same player the Spurs traded. His best season with the Spurs is actually pretty similar with the Hawks. Sure there's a drop off on assist but that's more because of playing 2nd fiddle next to high usage guy like Trae.
His defense also has taken a major hit playing along side a pedestrian like Trae. Atlanta is never been known to be some defensive team. I know one thing for sure. Teams won't hunt down Murray like they do with AR and DLO.
ATL pretty much realized that the Murray/Trae duo is not going to work. They would prefer to trade Murray, because of the backlash they would receive trading Trae who they picked ahead of Luka.
Murray is the better bargain out of the 2... Borderline allstar caliber all defensive guy at about $26m per next 5 years.
Trae tries harder on defense than Murray since getting to ATL.
This is the skillset we need to open up our offense. This is the type of game that fits with AD and Bron because he can operate in an area of the floor they are weak at…the perimeter. He can take over the offense when lebron sits as well. If we get him I prefer to keep DLo though for spacing. I think he would look great as the #4. Plus Levine isn’t much of a point.
Lakers need to go all in on Lebron since this may our last shot at winning for a very long time. We’re pretty much gutted as far as future assets are concerned. Trading one more draft pick isn’t going to make a difference. _________________ “like I never left”
AR/Rui/Max/Vincent/1st for Murray/Bogdonovic/Okongwu
AR/Rui/Vincent for Lavine
Don’t like either trade but I think that’s what’s being discussed. No one wants DLo bc of his contract. They want AR and Max. Rob should try to trade cam so we can get rid of the ham cam love fest.
I wish we would just try last years playoff starting lineup for a decent stretch. Not sure a trade will matter if ham is still coaching
AR/Rui/Max/Vincent/1st for Murray/Bogdonovic/Okongwu
AR/Rui/Vincent for Lavine
Don’t like either trade but I think that’s what’s being discussed. No one wants DLo bc of his contract. They want AR and Max. Rob should try to trade cam so we can get rid of the ham cam love fest.
I wish we would just try last years playoff starting lineup for a decent stretch. Not sure a trade will matter if ham is still coaching
DLos contract is the best thing about him. No one wanted the player but 18m in todays game is an easy pill to swallow. He would be a great starter on a tanking team or just bury him on the bench similar to us. That seems to be his most effective spot.
Who knows if any of theses guys would play better next to our big two than reaves, even if it says so on paper.
I meant DLo would leave which is why teams will not trade for him. I’d want DLo to stay if we trade AR
he's not leaving if they pay. Remember he went from 30M per to 18M. his market was dry. If a team trades for him and gives him an opportunity he stays. But the beauty of his # is that its also a nice salary dump if he leaves.
^
I can buy in the Reaves for Murray deal. Even if I'll say I would miss Austin, and much prefer to move AD for longterm assets and let Austin, Rui+ young assets run buck wild for a wee bit until we re-build.
I just don't see why Atlanta buys into that Austin/Murray deal. They get the lesser player. We would have to add something. They are not in a desperation to make a deal. Murray is locked in.
Lets see what Rob Lowe can cook up.
Quote:
He turned Westbrook into a WC finals rotation last year.
Maybe it's not, this trade. Or Lavine. But maybe Rob does it again.
There were 4 picks involved in that.
2027 1st round pick to Utah. (To get DLO, Vando, Beasley)
2023, 2028, 2029 pick to Washington. (To get Rui)
It took 4 future assets, although arguably only the 2027 pick is truly valuable. They're playing with fire here.
To keep giving up future assets to move from 11th-12th in the standings to 7th is what mediocre franchises do IMO.
I don't care what place we enter the playoffs in. I just care what we do when we get there.
Bron and Brow got us to the WC finals last year. They deserve another shot.
What do you think the odds are those picks equal a future LBJ and Brow?
This. LeBron/AD is your best chance to compete over the next 5 years. Murray is young enough to run with AD post-Bron and still have enough value if you need to trade him down the line. My only concern is that if Rui is in the deal it's a must you get a wing back. There's barely one basketball player combined between Cam/Prince/Vando. _________________ It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points."
“The Lakers, though, have shown no interest in trading Reaves despite some defensive regression this season, and even if they did flip him for Murray, there’s real skepticism that it would ‘move the needle’”
^That’s all aggregated from Dan Woike’s LA Times article…
Quote:
NBA insiders said the Hawks, in their discussions with the Knicks, talked about a Dejounte Murray trade with Atlanta seeking Immanuel Quickley and a first-round pick.
Murray is a player who definitely has the Lakers’ interest, and the Hawks certainly would ask for Austin Reaves initially in those talks. The Lakers, though, have shown no interest in trading Reaves despite some defensive regression this season, and even if they did flip him for Murray, there’s real skepticism that it would “move the needle” — a phrase you hear a lot when you talk to people about the Lakers and their deadline plans.
If the cost to get Murray is a first-round pick and a win-now young player (the Raptors elected for two of those players in lieu of a first-round pick in their trade of OG Anunoby to the Knicks), the Lakers can’t really meet it without Reaves. Sources say there have been no discussions about trading Reaves.
Max Christie, the second-year guard who has played his way into the rotation, has value and fans around the league, but his restricted free agency this summer suppresses some of his worth.
Either would be more of an accessory in a trade than a centerpiece. The real star the Lakers can offer is their 2029 first-round pick. If the Lakers were to unprotect or lightly protect the selection, there’d be some value there. It is, of course, hard to imagine the five-year plan for this current Lakers roster, some kind of reckoning eventually coming after building around James at this stage of his career.
The Lakers’ cache of draft capital includes that pick, the ability to swap picks in 2026, 2028 and 2030, second-round selections and, in a fun wrinkle, their 2027 first-round pick should it fall between 1 and 4. The Lakers sent that top-four protected pick to Utah last year as part of the Russell Westbrook deal, but the team also can trade the protected portion so long as the team isn’t in danger of trading future first-round picks in consecutive years.
Murray is probably the biggest name, in terms of known interest. Zach LaVine, long rumored to be on the trade market, isn’t usually a name that comes up when talking to people about the Lakers’ interest because of his contract and injury history. The trade market for him around the league, sources say, is so rough that the thought is Chicago should have to add stuff in a LaVine trade to get off the contract.
There doesn’t seem to be a player worthy of the Lakers making an “all-in” offer that wouldn’t be a wild overpay.
Other veteran guards on struggling teams — Malcolm Brogdon, Terry Rozier and Tyus Jones — could be backcourt upgrades. A 3-and-D role player like Dorian Finney-Smith also could fill a need.
Way too much roster turnover (& can Jeanie stomach the associated future tax bills) but imho I don’t feel like this current roster has a a legitimate shot in advancing in the playoffs this year anyways.
Have Chicago attach assets to Lavine’s bloated deal and reroute that to ATL for Murray.
LA: LaVine, Murray, AC, 3 vet mins from ATL/Chi (ie like WesMatt & TCraig)
ATL: Chicago FRP, LA 2029 FRP & swaps, Gabe, JHS
Chicago: DLo, Rui, Reaves, Prince, LA SRPs
FYI: the numbers should work towards salary matching & our 1st Apron hardcap and all the players involved should allow in-season roster compliance _________________ Not familiar with the salary cap/CBA rules & how it impacts our Lakers?
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^That’s all aggregated from Dan Woike’s LA Times article…
Quote:
NBA insiders said the Hawks, in their discussions with the Knicks, talked about a Dejounte Murray trade with Atlanta seeking Immanuel Quickley and a first-round pick.
Murray is a player who definitely has the Lakers’ interest, and the Hawks certainly would ask for Austin Reaves initially in those talks. The Lakers, though, have shown no interest in trading Reaves despite some defensive regression this season, and even if they did flip him for Murray, there’s real skepticism that it would “move the needle” — a phrase you hear a lot when you talk to people about the Lakers and their deadline plans.
If the cost to get Murray is a first-round pick and a win-now young player (the Raptors elected for two of those players in lieu of a first-round pick in their trade of OG Anunoby to the Knicks), the Lakers can’t really meet it without Reaves. Sources say there have been no discussions about trading Reaves.
Max Christie, the second-year guard who has played his way into the rotation, has value and fans around the league, but his restricted free agency this summer suppresses some of his worth.
Either would be more of an accessory in a trade than a centerpiece. The real star the Lakers can offer is their 2029 first-round pick. If the Lakers were to unprotect or lightly protect the selection, there’d be some value there. It is, of course, hard to imagine the five-year plan for this current Lakers roster, some kind of reckoning eventually coming after building around James at this stage of his career.
The Lakers’ cache of draft capital includes that pick, the ability to swap picks in 2026, 2028 and 2030, second-round selections and, in a fun wrinkle, their 2027 first-round pick should it fall between 1 and 4. The Lakers sent that top-four protected pick to Utah last year as part of the Russell Westbrook deal, but the team also can trade the protected portion so long as the team isn’t in danger of trading future first-round picks in consecutive years.
Murray is probably the biggest name, in terms of known interest. Zach LaVine, long rumored to be on the trade market, isn’t usually a name that comes up when talking to people about the Lakers’ interest because of his contract and injury history. The trade market for him around the league, sources say, is so rough that the thought is Chicago should have to add stuff in a LaVine trade to get off the contract.
There doesn’t seem to be a player worthy of the Lakers making an “all-in” offer that wouldn’t be a wild overpay.
Other veteran guards on struggling teams — Malcolm Brogdon, Terry Rozier and Tyus Jones — could be backcourt upgrades. A 3-and-D role player like Dorian Finney-Smith also could fill a need.
Way too much roster turnover (& can Jeanie stomach the associated future tax bills) but imho I don’t feel like this current roster has a a legitimate shot in advancing in the playoffs this year anyways.
Have Chicago attach assets to Lavine’s bloated deal and reroute that to ATL for Murray.
LA: LaVine, Murray, AC, 3 vet mins from ATL/Chi (ie like WesMatt & TCraig)
ATL: Chicago FRP, LA 2029 FRP & swaps, Gabe, JHS
Chicago: DLo, Rui, Reaves, Prince, LA SRPs
FYI: the numbers should work towards salary matching & our 1st Apron hardcap and all the players involved should allow in-season roster compliance
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