UCLA Tasered Student

LakerHabib · Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 10:48 am Post subject:

Hey everyone...
I don't know why I didn't check the forum earlier regarding this topic..

But I was there studying for my life science midterm that night in the reading room when it happened.

On the inside, and you probably can't tell from the video, but a lot of the students gathering around were giggling and laughing at the incident initially. I was pretty scared because I didn't know what was going on at first, when the crowd started forming. I thought I heard someone say "he's dying" .. and this was before all the commotion started. I went towards the crowd and saw the campus police. They were asking him to leave the library. An officer put a hand on his shoulder to escort him out, and the guy screamed out at the top of his lungs: "DON'T BLEEP'n TOUCH ME" . They kept asking to leave and he would verbally resist very loudly.

Basically, he was asking for it. He screams "I TOLD YOU I WOULD LEAVE"
As far as I know, he never said that. And of course, his actions certainly did not reflect that sentiment.

It was pretty hard watching him get tasered, but that doesn't take away from the fact that he very profoundly resisting authority and making a scene. He didn't follow the SIMPLE orders the officers were asking: "Please leave the library" and "Stand up".

He also starts screaming about justice and the Patriot Act and what not..
With me, he lost all credibility there.. it seemed like it was all a huge stunt.

What angered me most in this situation, is the other students in the midst of all of this. They were harassing the cops, asking for ID's and other information.. at times it looked like the officers were about to be rushed. I'm thinking.. are these people seeing the same thing I'm seeing?

Very surreal and i was very disappointed by the student reaction. And yesterday on campus, there was a huge protest and demonstration. I could barely stand to watch.

Yes, police brutality is a serious issue.. but in this scenario.. i VERY highly doubt that this incident had anything to do with the victim's race (and not that it has any relevance, but I have Middle Eastern descent although I was born and raised here in SoCal my whole life) and I don't think the police used excessive force. The kid was resisting and obviously making a scene. He'd wait til they tasered him then scream that he was leaving. All he did was resist and lay down on the floor while cursing at the cops and the justice system.

Gotta head out.. but I'll check back at this thread later
_________________

NoMoreGame7s · Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:21 am Post subject:

Habib, dropping the firsthand info on the incident. Nice. If I'm honest, your description of what you saw just makes the feelings I thought I had about the situation even stronger. I think the guy was an idiot. There was no good reason not to show his card when he was asked to show it. He was looking for trouble and found it. The fact that people are backing him up and crying about discrimination and brutality and civil rights is a bit extreme. This was no high-profile civil liberties case. It was a person trying to make a scene, and succeeding. He wasn't wronged. He was asked to show ID. The fact that he had it and that he really was a student doesn't make the officers' actions any worse, it just makes him an idiot for refusing to show it.

Anyhow, thanks for your input. The fact that you said it felt as if the police were going to be rushed sort of changes the whole dynamic of the situation, as well. Interesting, to say the least.
_________________
I got a fever....and the only prescription is more cowbell.

Thanks for the avatar, Hybrid27.

chef · Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:40 am Post subject:

lakersdynasty999 · Star Player Joined: 06 Sep 2005 Posts: 1893

go trojans!
_________________
Lakers in '08.
WWW.AVERYTICKETS.COM

Socks · Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:59 pm Post subject:

As with most things, I feel like there was wrong on both sides here.

This kid did not comply with initial requests from officers to show ID. I don't care whether he thought it was racial profiling or not, if you have ID you show it, if you don't you leave. By all accounts he refused to leave and was in the wrong for doing so. That's when things get iffy.

If he then started to leave and an officer placed a hand on him and he "went limp" in protest, then basically he's not complying with the officers' telling him to leave. The cops then have the right to arrest him and take him in - they have no right to tase him.

However, if he took the action farther than simply going limp, by for example, pushing the officer's arm off of him and acting aggressively by yelling, he's resisting arrest and acting in a threatening manner and the cops might have the right to taze. It's a FINE LINE at that point. Is he really resisting arrest? Is he really acting in a threatening enough manner to justify a tazing? I'm not a cop, but all I can say is that if I put myself in their shoes, I don't mess around. You never know if the guy is going to pull out a weapon and I don't want to be the guy drawing second. Unfortunately I've had more negative than positive encounters with cops. But I respect the hell out of what they do and understand them not wanting to take chances with their lives.

After that the guy is in handcuffs. If he was just sitting there silently, the cops are not justified in applying additional tasings to him. However, if he's trying to incite other students against the cops - and I did not hear anything in that video explicitly inciting people standing by - then the cops might indeed have a valid case for tasing him to get him to shut up and stop a potential riot that could cause harm to many people. So it appears to me that the key is whether or not he was trying to incite others to act out against the police officers while he was in cuffs.

If he was trying to do so, the cops have a strong case that they acted correctly. If he was not, he has a strong case that excessive force was used. Honestly, I can't tell from the video tha the was trying to incite anything but I do see the cops tasing him and then ordering him to get up, which makes it seem like they were using the taser to try to get him to comply. Based on that it's hard to take the cops' side.

The only thing I'm sure of in this case is that he should be charged with trespassing and being a stupid moron. But it's not OK for people to get tasered for being occassionally stupid or else me and half the people here would be walking electric currents by now

.

If he was actively looking to incite others to take action against the cops then at that moment his stupidity crossed the line into a dangerous (and I think illegal) action and he deserved what he got.

* By way of disclaimer, I'm no lawyer, so take any statements I made about laws or rights as my interpretation of how things should work rather than how they actually do and feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken.

Surfitall · Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:00 pm Post subject:

Sensible socks. Very sensible.

MIMLaker · Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:36 pm Post subject:

postandpivot · Retired Number Joined: 16 Sep 2003 Posts: 36822

BigHaDaddy · Star Player Joined: 31 May 2002 Posts: 1157

Now some people are comparing him to Gandhi....

Here are the events as I understand it:

1) UCLA has random ID checks after 11:00 PM to ensure the safety of their students. No ID, no library. I also went to a UC that had the same policy. This is standard UC procedure.

2)CSO's(Community Service Officers) were randomly checking ID's and asked him for his, he does not present one(although we find out that he did indeed have his ID on him), and starts throwing a tantrum.

3)The CSO's asked him to leave for 20 minutes, but he would not comply. The CSO's called the campus police. When the person being held saw the police coming, that's when he started to leave.

4)In the video, he repeatedly states,"I was leaving!" The police actually did not want him to leave at that point. They wanted to question him and give him a citation or a warning.

Some things just don't add up here. Why would you not present your ID when you have it in your wallet? Why does he start yelling and screaming even before the tasering begins? Why does he exaggerate the pain of the taser by screaming as if he's dying?

Colby Briant · Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 2:45 am Post subject:

cops shoulda just carried him out without a taze. if he's being agressive lock his wrist and get him on the floor to put some cuffs on him. once the cuffs are on, carry him out. lookin at the vid, the cops definitely looked like they were big and strong enough to carry the guy out.

i was in a similar situation about 4 years ago. i was drunk at some party and i mouthed off at some cops who had told me and my friend to leave the party. we resisted and they got us on the floor and cuffed us and carried us out, feet dragging and all. we were being loud, disrespectful, and not complying with their orders. did they take batons to our heads, taze us? no. funny thing is they were joking around with us while they were carry us out. i had some bruises from being thrown to the floor, thats it and i deserved it.

considering this happened in a library where the guy was studying (not exactly a place where troublemakers hang out) the cops should have used a little better judgement considering the location and the fact they were most likely dealing with a student. the guy obviously wanted some drama in his life and got a little loud and felt like protesting for the fun of it. i bet never in his wildest dreams did he think anything he did would warrant a taze.

chef · Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 9:14 am Post subject:

TNLakersFanInLA · Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 9:42 am Post subject:

JIFISH · Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 11:55 am Post subject:

I'm not sure, but I think maybe the solution is that the ID checks not be random. Instead of going up to every 4th or 5th person and asking for their ID, ask everyone on that floor of the building for their ID, one after the other. If this guy was sitting amongst a group of Anglo students and police don't ask any of the Anglo students for ID but ask him, then it definitely could seem to him like racial profiling, whether in fact it was or wasn't.

As for tasering, it's not my first choice of what I'd like to have done to me, but I'd rather be tasered than have my head cracked open with a billy club, or be "water boarded" or stripped naked and have police dogs nipping at my privates.

What I'm saying is there are far worse things being done to people than being stunned (or even shocked) with a taser. Yet we as a society seem to be OK with that as long as its not being done to people attending college in the US.

And that troubles me.
_________________
I would rather have questions I cannot answer than answers I cannot question - Richard Feynman

999 · Franchise Player Joined: 19 Oct 2006 Posts: 20267

i will pull the race card on this....

no need for the kid to get tasered...... hes a geek in a library not Osama Bin Laden.....

BTW... Why did the pigs ask for his ID in the first place? Random search? on what grounds? Skin Color!!! <~~exactly....

in this age of new found torture who can we point the finger at.... OH i dunno.... they no longer control Congress but my finger still points at 1600 Pensylvania..... Hes making us all live in fear

JIFISH · Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 2:25 pm Post subject:

999 · Franchise Player Joined: 19 Oct 2006 Posts: 20267

Bergamotichek · Retired Number Joined: 02 Sep 2007 Posts: 16777206

JIFISH · Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 5:24 pm Post subject:

You are pulling the race card on this because there is a history of UCLA campus police using excessive force on minority students?

If there is, please cite a few examples from the recent past.

I'm as opposed to racism and police violence as anyone, but it seems to me that ANYONE who disobeys a direct order from a police officer is risking if not outright inviting some sort of retaliation.

If a man has a gun, a night stick and a taser at his disposal, and is with a group of other people who are similarly armed, and asks me to show him my ID, I will pull out my wallet and show it to him as quickly as possible. If he asked me to stand up, I'd stand up. If he asked me to leave the building, I'd leave the building, as quickly as possible, even if it was my own dwelling.

I find it hard to believe that someone who is in their fourth year at UCLA is not bright enough to figure that out.

And if he REALLY thought the officers were motivated by racism, he'd be an even bigger fool to disobey.
_________________
I would rather have questions I cannot answer than answers I cannot question - Richard Feynman

ocho · Retired Number Joined: 24 May 2005 Posts: 53936

Ted · Star Player Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 3477

999 · Franchise Player Joined: 19 Oct 2006 Posts: 20267

TACH · Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:02 pm Post subject:

TACH · Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:10 pm Post subject:

ocho · Retired Number Joined: 24 May 2005 Posts: 53936

gng930 · Franchise Player Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 11481

Sounds very similar to the Rodney King incident...someone being uncooperative enough to warrant physical action. But it boils down to whether or not excessive force was used.