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Kobe>Lebron
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 Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| rracer99 wrote: | | methdxman wrote: | I don't think Kramer is racist. I think he was put in a tough position... who knows what he's going through in life, and he wanted to hurt the heckler and hit him hard, and those were the words he chose to use. I suppose it's like if a person lost his mother at a young age and someone were to insult his mother. Of course that is terrible and is not within the acceptable limits of "counter-heckling," but in any case I don't think the guy is a racist.
Real racists manifest themselves in other ways in my experience. I've seen true racism manifest itself in the strangest ways. It's hardly ever like this.
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I really believe you are on the money.
Truly harmful people like "racists", work in far more insiduous and damaging ways.
Kramer went of his rocker (due to any number of personal circumstances, problems, mental, etc.), and in this particular instance, tried to inflict maximum damage to his target, in this case a black man(men?).
You get that bloodlust rage for your target and you try to kill they guy verbally and that's what happens. What's the result? He nuked himself.
If anyone of us truly went into a fit of rage (and I mean true state of rage, where you temporarily do not care or think of boundries), what kind of verbal barrage could you architect about:
Arabs
Chinese
Blacks
Mexicans
Iranians
etc.?
I think we call could think of truly shocking and evil comments. Doesn't mean we mean it, but we do know the material...
The word, "Racist" is thrown around too loosely. Save it for those that are plotting, acting and "conspiring" in evil ways to set back or harm others. |
I can unerstand your sentiment here but I do think Kramer is a racist for two reasons.
1. He said 50 years ago we (whites) would have stuck a fork up your ass. What do you think he means by this?
2. He said "that is what you get when you talk to the whiteman"
Wikipedia defines racism as follows:
Racism is commonly defined as a belief or doctrine where inherent biological differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, with a corollary that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racist
To me it sounds as if he is implying (especially by the second statement) he is superior.
No he isn't Timothy McVeigh or Charles Manson but just because you are not conspiring or planning to harm others in evil ways doesnt mean you can not be racist.
On the flip side I can definitely see the counterpoint. We (society) are too quick to label someone racist or sexist or even homophobic, but IMHO I think Kramer deserved that label for what I saw on that videotape.
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Lakers_2000
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:42 am Post subject: |
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| If Kramer's career is ruined because of this, I want every celebrity who says something stupid to have their career ruined. |
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JerryMagicKobe
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| Hey, when it comes to words, I don't really care what people SAY. I've heard stuff said by every race to every race since I was a kid. Usually it's just talk. Every race is racist, that's what makes stereotypes in the first place. It's actions that I worry about. Somebody DOING something because of some stupid made up reason. I actually prefer that someone who has racial thoughts spill the beans, so I can know what I'm dealing with. Now we know what Kramer is capable of. Do I think he's gonna beat somebody up because of their race? Doubt it. But we know what he thinks. Kramer just seems irrational and unstable and full of anger and self-doubt. And his apology was incoherant and disturbing. As for his career, it was over a soon as the credits rolled on the last Seinfeld episode. His stand up career was over BEFORE he said those things. He might have gotten away with some of that crap if he were funny. But he's just sad and demented. |
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Kobe>Lebron
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakers_2000 wrote: | | If Kramer's career is ruined because of this, I want every celebrity who says something stupid to have their career ruined. |
What career?
The guy is already the definition of washed up.
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eureca
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RipCityRobert
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Lakers Dynasty 2000
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| Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| RipCityRobert wrote: | http://www.themoderatevoice.com/posts/1164432087.shtml :roll:
What Richards did was idiotic and reprehensible, and he'll pay for it in many ways as he should, but is it worthy of a lawsuit? |
Wow.
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mbloves L.A.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakers Dynasty 2000 wrote: | | RipCityRobert wrote: | http://www.themoderatevoice.com/posts/1164432087.shtml :roll:
What Richards did was idiotic and reprehensible, and he'll pay for it in many ways as he should, but is it worthy of a lawsuit? |
Wow. |
Great. If they have a case, then I do too. I was made fn of in a comedy club, and all my friends laughed and I couldn't work because of a bruised ego. I should have a case right? Somewhere around $10,000,000 worth. Time to hit up my lawyer.
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TACH
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| Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| mbloves L.A. wrote: | | Lakers Dynasty 2000 wrote: | | RipCityRobert wrote: | http://www.themoderatevoice.com/posts/1164432087.shtml :roll:
What Richards did was idiotic and reprehensible, and he'll pay for it in many ways as he should, but is it worthy of a lawsuit? |
Wow. |
Great. If they have a case, then I do too. I was made fn of in a comedy club, and all my friends laughed and I couldn't work because of a bruised ego. I should have a case right? Somewhere around $10,000,000 worth. Time to hit up my lawyer. |
Gloria Allred is a (bleep) parasite! She makes me  |
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Sister Golden Hair
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| Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| rracer99 wrote: | | methdxman wrote: | I don't think Kramer is racist. I think he was put in a tough position... who knows what he's going through in life, and he wanted to hurt the heckler and hit him hard, and those were the words he chose to use. I suppose it's like if a person lost his mother at a young age and someone were to insult his mother. Of course that is terrible and is not within the acceptable limits of "counter-heckling," but in any case I don't think the guy is a racist.
Real racists manifest themselves in other ways in my experience. I've seen true racism manifest itself in the strangest ways. It's hardly ever like this.
|
I really believe you are on the money.
Truly harmful people like "racists", work in far more insiduous and damaging ways.
Kramer went of his rocker (due to any number of personal circumstances, problems, mental, etc.), and in this particular instance, tried to inflict maximum damage to his target, in this case a black man(men?).
You get that bloodlust rage for your target and you try to kill they guy verbally and that's what happens. What's the result? He nuked himself.
If anyone of us truly went into a fit of rage (and I mean true state of rage, where you temporarily do not care or think of boundries), what kind of verbal barrage could you architect about:
Arabs
Chinese
Blacks
Mexicans
Iranians
etc.?
I think we call could think of truly shocking and evil comments. Doesn't mean we mean it, but we do know the material...
The word, "Racist" is thrown around too loosely. Save it for those that are plotting, acting and "conspiring" in evil ways to set back or harm others. |
Sorry, but that's just ridiculous. Even if the term racist is thrown around loosely, you can'tr seriously argue that his act wasn't racist. You put the word racist in quotation marks, as if it only applies to some sub-species of human beings. But your explanation indicates that you apparently believe that racism is pretty universal (because those outbursts will occur when people get upset). Richards could have gone intgo a verbal fugue about the heckler's clothes, or his date, or his cheap shoes, or whatever. But no: he went straight to the guy's skin color, and buttressed it by making a godawful statement about lynching. He didn't just call the guy a (bleep), he called him that about 5 or 6 times, after he made the statement about how 54 years ago he'd have been lynched for, apparently, speaking out of line. You simnply can't sugarcoat that, or rationalize it away.
Just because someone loses their cool doesn't mean that somehow they are absolved of what they say or do in a fit of rage. And, frankly, you can tell more about who someone really is when they react to adversity (as oposed when things are going great), just like you can gauge the strength of a marriage by how the partners relate in times of adversity. In a country like ours with its history of ill-treatment toward black folks (along with other persecuted groups), if there's one thing that can be said for certain, it's that racism is part of our social DNA -- it's hardwired. That's not to say progress hasn't occurred. But the fact that there has been some progress doesn't mean that problem isn't still lurking under the surface.
Richards' outburst was an expression of that. I felt nauseated as I watched it. Partly because I watched "Seinfeld" and thought Richards had an almost gentle core about him that came through in his depiction of Kramer. A sweetness. I guess that's good acting. That went right out the window, though. Second, I was saddened to see someone try to publicly humiliate a black man like that -- it was truly vile. And, sorry, but no amount of heckling justifies that kind of vicious response. Third, I was saddened to watch a person give in to his demons in so public a fashion. And fourth, I was appalled, and continue to be appalled, when I read or hear people make excuses for that kind of outburst. It's in moments like those when one realizes how deep racism runs. Either that, or a lot of people are just incredibly stupid.
It's foolish to say that his outburst wasn't really racist -- that's crazy. It was racist through and through. I bet you'd feel different if you had been the black guy he was hurling the word (bleep) at repeatedly, publicly, and from the safety of the stage.
It was not only racist, it was cowardly.
Richards does have a problem. Maybe this will force him to confront it. Somehow, though, I figure if he hasn't confronted it by now, he never will.
SGH |
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JerryMagicKobe
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 1:51 am Post subject: |
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Remember when Kramer stood up to Jerry because he was an anti-dentite? Now look at him.
Hypocrite |
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angel
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:04 am Post subject: |
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There is no doubt his words spoken on that night are worthy of extremely harsh criticism. There is a difference between condemning the words and condemning and labelling the individual. He has made some positive steps. He has publically acknowledged that his words were wrong. He has publically apologized more than once. Reverand Jesse Jackson suggested he get some psychiatric help to deal with his anger. He is following through with that and is now seeing a therapist. There is an unlying problem he needs to get corrected.
There will be consequences that are long lasting. No matter what he does, there will be people who will never fogive him. No matter how much he apologizes and no matter what he does to show remorse, there will be people who still hate him. He will likely never have a significant public career in the future. Yet, what will define him is not his outburst on one night, it's his actions now and in the future.
If a certain NBA star puts out songs that are demeaning to women, would I object to the words? Yes, I would. If he apologized and didn't release the CD, would I forgive him? Yes, I would. Would I label him a sexist? No, I wouldn't. What's more important is that he corrects the problem over the long term. Actions speak louder than words. I'm more concerned about his pattern of behavior, not an isolated incidents.
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LakerLanny
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LAxEMxONT
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| Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:12 am Post subject: |
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| I'm sure he's not a racist. Had they been hispanics or asians he would have said something about that. I didn't see video so I don't know if he went over board but he was being shown up by hecklers, so put them in their place. Had it been a white guy heckling a black comedian, he would have come back with some bullshet also. |
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Money$hot!
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| Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 8:56 am Post subject: |
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All right fine! YOU TAKE THE MONKEY'S SIDE!
Richard's deserves it (for now), hopefully he can change. Very well done video! |
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LuxuryBrown
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| Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 10:53 am Post subject: |
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| LakersGround.net wrote: | | I'm sure he's not a racist. Had they been hispanics or asians he would have said something about that. I didn't see video so I don't know if he went over board but he was being shown up by hecklers, so put them in their place. Had it been a white guy heckling a black comedian, he would have come back with some (bleep) also. |
Your first 2 sentences make no sense whatsoever. None. You're basically saying that if they were Asians or Latino that he made those comments about then he STILL wouldn't be a racist. What makes you say that?
And more importantly, how can you comment on ANY of this if you haven't even seen the video? That REALLY makes no sense.
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Laker_Town
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| Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| LakersGround.net wrote: | | I'm sure he's not a racist. Had they been hispanics or asians he would have said something about that. I didn't see video so I don't know if he went over board but he was being shown up by hecklers, so put them in their place. Had it been a white guy heckling a black comedian, he would have come back with some (bleep) also. |
Hadnt even visited this thread, but this here is SIMPLY stupid. IM sorry but youve got it ALL wrong. Had they been hispanic or asian ...um he still would have been a damn RACIST.
ITs not about about if he was white, or if the hecklers were of other race, its about the CRAP he said and he obviously knew what to say that would trigger a reaction from the black community. (in this case, the hecklers) |
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TACH
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | LAUGH FACTORY BANS DAMON WAYANS: Comedian used N-word after Kramer incident led to its removal from the premises.
December 6, 2006
Looks like Damon Wayans has become the first casualty of the Laugh Factory’s newly-instituted N-word free zone.
The comedian used the term 16 times during his 20-minute set Sunday night and was promptly banned from performing at the venue for the next three months, reports the LA Times.
Wayans’ act referred to the racist rant of “Seinfeld” star Michael Richards that caused the N-word ban to be instituted.
"I'll be damned if the white man uses that word last. …This is part of our culture now...don't take that from us," Wayans told the audience.
The actor was also fined $320 for his routine - $20 for each time he used the word.
The syndicated TV show “Inside Edition” sought the opinion of director Spike Lee on the Laugh Factory’s N-word ban. The director told the syndicated television program: "I think as a people we have to try to eradicate that word."
But rapper Jay-Z, who uses the word in his lyrics, disagrees with a formal ban, telling the show last week: "I'm against that, I'm all for freedom of speech." He added, "You have to fix the people that have hatred inside their soul." |
| Quote: | Andy Dick is apologizing for using racial slur
LOS ANGELES - Andy Dick is apologizing for using the same racial slur that got ex-"Seinfeld" star Michael Richards in trouble last month Dick, a former co-star of the 1990s sitcom "NewsRadio," jumped on stage during a routine by Ian Bagg at L.A.'s Improv on Saturday night and used the n-word in an apparent attempt to joke about Richards, the celebrity Web site TMZ.com reported Tuesday.
Dick issued an apology through his publicist.
"I chose to make a joke about a subject that is not funny," said the statement, which was provided to the Los Angeles Times. "In an attempt to make light of a serious subject, I have offended a lot of people, and I am sorry for my insensitivity. I wish to apologize to Ian, to the club and its patrons and to anyone who was hurt or offended by my remark."
According to TMZ, Dick had been heckling comedian Bagg from the audience and then joined him onstage, when the two discussed Richards. When Dick exited the stage, he suddenly grabbed the microphone and shouted at the crowd, "You're all a bunch of...'" — using the n-word.
An Improv manager wouldn't comment about the incident when reached by the newspaper.
Richards, who played the wacky neighbor Kramer on "Seinfeld," has been on a campaign of contrition since videotaped footage of his outburst at the Laugh Factory on Nov. 17 surfaced on TMZ.
Richards, who like Dick is white, has said the tirade was fueled by anger at being heckled and not bigotry. He plans to meet with the four black patrons who were the targets of his remarks to apologize in person. |
Last edited by TACH on Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:50 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ocho
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:38 am Post subject: |
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i think the laugh factory should be very careful and consider what they're doing when they ban words people can say and censor comedians.
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Texas_Pete
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| Sister Golden Hair wrote: | | rracer99 wrote: | | methdxman wrote: | I don't think Kramer is racist. I think he was put in a tough position... who knows what he's going through in life, and he wanted to hurt the heckler and hit him hard, and those were the words he chose to use. I suppose it's like if a person lost his mother at a young age and someone were to insult his mother. Of course that is terrible and is not within the acceptable limits of "counter-heckling," but in any case I don't think the guy is a racist.
Real racists manifest themselves in other ways in my experience. I've seen true racism manifest itself in the strangest ways. It's hardly ever like this.
|
I really believe you are on the money.
Truly harmful people like "racists", work in far more insiduous and damaging ways.
Kramer went of his rocker (due to any number of personal circumstances, problems, mental, etc.), and in this particular instance, tried to inflict maximum damage to his target, in this case a black man(men?).
You get that bloodlust rage for your target and you try to kill they guy verbally and that's what happens. What's the result? He nuked himself.
If anyone of us truly went into a fit of rage (and I mean true state of rage, where you temporarily do not care or think of boundries), what kind of verbal barrage could you architect about:
Arabs
Chinese
Blacks
Mexicans
Iranians
etc.?
I think we call could think of truly shocking and evil comments. Doesn't mean we mean it, but we do know the material...
The word, "Racist" is thrown around too loosely. Save it for those that are plotting, acting and "conspiring" in evil ways to set back or harm others. |
Sorry, but that's just ridiculous. Even if the term racist is thrown around loosely, you can'tr seriously argue that his act wasn't racist. You put the word racist in quotation marks, as if it only applies to some sub-species of human beings. But your explanation indicates that you apparently believe that racism is pretty universal (because those outbursts will occur when people get upset). Richards could have gone intgo a verbal fugue about the heckler's clothes, or his date, or his cheap shoes, or whatever. But no: he went straight to the guy's skin color, and buttressed it by making a godawful statement about lynching. He didn't just call the guy a (bleep), he called him that about 5 or 6 times, after he made the statement about how 54 years ago he'd have been lynched for, apparently, speaking out of line. You simnply can't sugarcoat that, or rationalize it away.
Just because someone loses their cool doesn't mean that somehow they are absolved of what they say or do in a fit of rage. And, frankly, you can tell more about who someone really is when they react to adversity (as oposed when things are going great), just like you can gauge the strength of a marriage by how the partners relate in times of adversity. In a country like ours with its history of ill-treatment toward black folks (along with other persecuted groups), if there's one thing that can be said for certain, it's that racism is part of our social DNA -- it's hardwired. That's not to say progress hasn't occurred. But the fact that there has been some progress doesn't mean that problem isn't still lurking under the surface.
Richards' outburst was an expression of that. I felt nauseated as I watched it. Partly because I watched "Seinfeld" and thought Richards had an almost gentle core about him that came through in his depiction of Kramer. A sweetness. I guess that's good acting. That went right out the window, though. Second, I was saddened to see someone try to publicly humiliate a black man like that -- it was truly vile. And, sorry, but no amount of heckling justifies that kind of vicious response. Third, I was saddened to watch a person give in to his demons in so public a fashion. And fourth, I was appalled, and continue to be appalled, when I read or hear people make excuses for that kind of outburst. It's in moments like those when one realizes how deep racism runs. Either that, or a lot of people are just incredibly stupid.
It's foolish to say that his outburst wasn't really racist -- that's crazy. It was racist through and through. I bet you'd feel different if you had been the black guy he was hurling the word (bleep) at repeatedly, publicly, and from the safety of the stage.
It was not only racist, it was cowardly.
Richards does have a problem. Maybe this will force him to confront it. Somehow, though, I figure if he hasn't confronted it by now, he never will.
SGH |
Well spoken SGH. I too believe that the truth comes out when someone is either drunk or outraged. There is absolutely no excuse for "Kramer" to result to that level of behavior. No one - White, Black, Asian, or whatever - deserves that type of treatment. |
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Flight
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| Sister Golden Hair wrote: | | rracer99 wrote: | | methdxman wrote: | I don't think Kramer is racist. I think he was put in a tough position... who knows what he's going through in life, and he wanted to hurt the heckler and hit him hard, and those were the words he chose to use. I suppose it's like if a person lost his mother at a young age and someone were to insult his mother. Of course that is terrible and is not within the acceptable limits of "counter-heckling," but in any case I don't think the guy is a racist.
Real racists manifest themselves in other ways in my experience. I've seen true racism manifest itself in the strangest ways. It's hardly ever like this.
|
I really believe you are on the money.
Truly harmful people like "racists", work in far more insiduous and damaging ways.
Kramer went of his rocker (due to any number of personal circumstances, problems, mental, etc.), and in this particular instance, tried to inflict maximum damage to his target, in this case a black man(men?).
You get that bloodlust rage for your target and you try to kill they guy verbally and that's what happens. What's the result? He nuked himself.
If anyone of us truly went into a fit of rage (and I mean true state of rage, where you temporarily do not care or think of boundries), what kind of verbal barrage could you architect about:
Arabs
Chinese
Blacks
Mexicans
Iranians
etc.?
I think we call could think of truly shocking and evil comments. Doesn't mean we mean it, but we do know the material...
The word, "Racist" is thrown around too loosely. Save it for those that are plotting, acting and "conspiring" in evil ways to set back or harm others. |
Sorry, but that's just ridiculous. Even if the term racist is thrown around loosely, you can'tr seriously argue that his act wasn't racist. You put the word racist in quotation marks, as if it only applies to some sub-species of human beings. But your explanation indicates that you apparently believe that racism is pretty universal (because those outbursts will occur when people get upset). Richards could have gone intgo a verbal fugue about the heckler's clothes, or his date, or his cheap shoes, or whatever. But no: he went straight to the guy's skin color, and buttressed it by making a godawful statement about lynching. He didn't just call the guy a (bleep), he called him that about 5 or 6 times, after he made the statement about how 54 years ago he'd have been lynched for, apparently, speaking out of line. You simnply can't sugarcoat that, or rationalize it away.
Just because someone loses their cool doesn't mean that somehow they are absolved of what they say or do in a fit of rage. And, frankly, you can tell more about who someone really is when they react to adversity (as oposed when things are going great), just like you can gauge the strength of a marriage by how the partners relate in times of adversity. In a country like ours with its history of ill-treatment toward black folks (along with other persecuted groups), if there's one thing that can be said for certain, it's that racism is part of our social DNA -- it's hardwired. That's not to say progress hasn't occurred. But the fact that there has been some progress doesn't mean that problem isn't still lurking under the surface.
Richards' outburst was an expression of that. I felt nauseated as I watched it. Partly because I watched "Seinfeld" and thought Richards had an almost gentle core about him that came through in his depiction of Kramer. A sweetness. I guess that's good acting. That went right out the window, though. Second, I was saddened to see someone try to publicly humiliate a black man like that -- it was truly vile. And, sorry, but no amount of heckling justifies that kind of vicious response. Third, I was saddened to watch a person give in to his demons in so public a fashion. And fourth, I was appalled, and continue to be appalled, when I read or hear people make excuses for that kind of outburst. It's in moments like those when one realizes how deep racism runs. Either that, or a lot of people are just incredibly stupid.
It's foolish to say that his outburst wasn't really racist -- that's crazy. It was racist through and through. I bet you'd feel different if you had been the black guy he was hurling the word (bleep) at repeatedly, publicly, and from the safety of the stage.
It was not only racist, it was cowardly.
Richards does have a problem. Maybe this will force him to confront it. Somehow, though, I figure if he hasn't confronted it by now, he never will.
SGH |
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TACH
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | i think the laugh factory should be very careful and consider what they're doing when they ban words people can say and censor comedians. |
Agreed...
I find the fine amusing,.. if not childish.
What, is it there a "Curse-Jar" you drop your 20's in when you leave the stage??
In related news, Luda, Lil' John, and Young Jeezy are now carpooling in a Chevy Cobalt due to "budgetary setbacks" |
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ocho
Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 54013
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:58 am Post subject: |
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^^tach it's the era of media we live in today. we're the 24 hour-a-day news channel, tmz, youtube generation. anything you say is not only recorded on video...but its played ad nauseum for weeks.
"macaca", kerry's comment about the troops, and now michael richards. this constant analysis by pundits of these relatively insignificant events cause the public to overreact. that leads to censorship as we are now seeing.
it's very sad.
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Buck32
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Joined: 30 Apr 2001
Posts: 7335
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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Just like Mel Gibson, Richards blurted things he has always had in his head. In a fit of rage (or drunkenness as in Gibson's case) people say what they really feel but normally wouldn't say.
And it's not the first time for him. After he insulted Jews before he said he was Jewish, which was of course a blatant lie.
He deserves all the flak he's getting right now.
Maybe he can still do stand-up at KKK meetings. |
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ocho
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Buck32 wrote: | Just like Mel Gibson, Richards blurted things he has always had in his head. In a fit of rage (or drunkenness as in Gibson's case) people say what they really feel but normally wouldn't say.
And it's not the first time for him. After he insulted Jews before he said he was Jewish, which was of course a blatant lie.
He deserves all the flak he's getting right now.
Maybe he can still do stand-up at KKK meetings. |
i disagree with the notion that alcohol makes you say things you really feel but wouldn't say. i know i personally have said and done things while drunk and woken up the next morning wondering 'why the hell did i say/do that?...thats now how i feel at all".
in mel's case, he has made anti-semetic remarks in the past and made a movie that featured anti-semitism. i doubt he was drunk the whole time.
in richard's case...i don't know cuz i don't know the guy. however i think its entirely possible to say something you don't mean while under a lot of stress and having lost your temper.
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