Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:58 pm Post subject: Bill Cosby Hating On 2Pac Nasty Style
Quote:
More tough-love talk from Cosby
He joins Save Our Children forum
By DAMON C. WILLIAMS
Comedian, author and native Philadelphian Bill Cosby posed a serious question yesterday to the audience at a Save Our Children forum in the auditorium of Community College of Philadelphia.
He first asked audience members who had lost loved ones to violence to stand up. More than 75 percent of those in the room stood.
"This is insane," he said. He then asked his question, "Where are we going as parents, as people?"
Speaking in simple, blunt terms, Cosby urged parents not to address their children in negative ways.
"Your child's name is not n-----, your 2-year-old child's name is not mother------," Cosby said, to rousing cheers and just a few gasps from parents in attendance.
Cosby's main issues in his keynote address as one of a number of speakers at the Community College-sponsored "Save Our Children - Exhoodus Tour" were parenting, education and drug-selling, all of which he touched on with just a hint of comedy.
Typical of Cosby's style of stinging and controversial commentary, he also faulted the love shown to the late rapper Tupac Shakur. He said it was crazy for Shakur, who was fatally shot in Las Vegas in 1996, and his mother to enjoy the proceeds from Shakur's drug sales.
"In the book, 'To Momma With Love,' or something like that, he is so happy that he's able to take money from selling cocaine and give the money to his mother," Cosby said.
"How wonderful. Isn't that wonderful. You've got to be kidding. How many lives have you ruined selling packets? How many mothers are not going to go to work because they want to snort? How many dead mothers because of crack, how many babies we got to make turn around because they are crack babies?"
Cosby said the house Shakur bought his mother should be adorned with the pictures of users who died due to drug use.
"Hang up the pictures of the people's lives you ruined," Cosby declared.
Cosby also briefly addressed the criticisms he has endured recently, saying that he doesn't pick on the poor but rather, he tells it like it is.
"[People say] 'Bill Cosby is picking on the poor.' I couldn't care less," Cosby said, with a little edge in his voice. "I'm telling you why your child is sad inside. I would keep my mouth shut if [parents] were doing things."
Cosby also said that he had the right to say what he says because he came from where the people he was addressing came from.
"Up to the age 26, [I lived at] 6159 N. 41st Street," Cosby said. "So don't play games with me. I've seen all of you, whether you are rich, poor or middle-income. And I know when you talk too much, and I know why you talk too much. And that's why I can say what I want to say."
Cosby was joined by Malik Aziz and Bilal Qayyum of Black Men United for a Better Philadelphia; the Rev. Derrick Johnson, of Joshua Harvest Church in Wilmington, Del; Umar Salahuddin, Atlantic City's director of health and human services; Michelle A. Simmons of Why Not Prosper, Inc.; Antoinette Jackson-Aziz, executive vice president of the Ex-Offenders Association of Pennsylvania; and brothers Lance and Todd Feurtado, motivational speakers from Queens, N.Y.
i agree with cosby's sentiment...i'm just so tired of him placing the blame on music. anyone who blames music, tv, movies or videogames is really out of touch and fails to see the bigger picture. _________________ 14-5-3-12
i agree with cosby's sentiment...i'm just so tired of him placing the blame on music. anyone who blames music, tv, movies or videogames is really out of touch and fails to see the bigger picture.
the deal is this. the Parents arent' there. so blaming someone's crack addictied mother, alcoholic father. wait a minute. let me state that again. so blaming someone's drug/alcohol addicted "I want a boyfriend more then i care about my own kids safety" for a mother and a NO SHOW father. The idea of saying "the parents" is out. Sure we can say that. and we know it starts with the parents. But if the parents are incapable at this moment to be of any good assistance. because they first need to kick any addiction, and daddy needs to actual show up. So in the meantime, the kids are raised by outside sources. School teachers, the streets, Music, Videos, media.
School teachers are tired and underpaid. the streets always has room for you(which isn't a good thing). that leaves media (music, videos, etc).
Cosby is saying if you clean up the rap, since you've made it. You're either rich, or well off. That means its time for you to hell the less fortunate. You never have to walk into a soup kitchen, or even run a non-profit org. What you can do is give people positive role models. You are a role model whether you like it or not. So choose to either be a positive one or a negative one. When you choose positive, you're doing a service to the community. Yes, you're some what raising other peoples kids. Thats just the way it has to be until you can bring the parents on board. or the kids grow up and make a new way for the following generation. Cos is correct.
examples of how media influence your kids and us grown ups.
PurpleSuit Barney " I love U, U love me, etc, ect". I know that song, cause I've heard kids sing it. Before i ever watched the show. Kids repeat things they hear and see like robots. now imagine if Barney said, " Sex, Drugs, Guns... Sex, Drugs, Guns, Everybody wanna have Sex, drugs, guns"
Your kids would repeat that song VERBATIM.
I grew up to G.I. Joe, Voltron, Thundercats, etc.
GI Joe taught me, ".. And Knowing is Half the battle"
Thats wisdom. thats almost a proverb from the bible.
Voltron/Thundercats taught you things you didn't think about. It taught you that you can be very good by yourself, but you can only be great as a TEAM. Some of kids didn't catch that when we were watching. because we were so mesmerized by the shows. But there's a hidden message in everything you hear and see. even if the author didn't intend for it to be.
as Corny as i thought those little after school specials were. They got the point across. Its funny when rappers or fans of hiphop or any music genre. try to act as if the artists have no power over the listener. But they would put their kids in front of a TV for hours watching Barney tapes. WHY? cause they think Barney is a good thing to watch and to be INFLUENCED BY. I'm not saying rap or any other music has to be as Kiddy or even power rangers Corny. But there's ways to make positive messages. The thing is, its just easier to go the negative route. you dont even have to think to long about what you wanna say when you say something negative. but the moment you want to put out a positive song. its going to take you some time to sit down and think of something. that right there should tell you how far society as gone down the tube.
Joined: 03 Nov 2005 Posts: 28461 Location: Chillin on the Delaware.. from the Jersey Side
Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:45 am Post subject:
It all comes down to parenting,... if the parents do their jobs, and not blame or put the responsiblility of raising their kids on somebody else, be it a grandmother, the state, a TV, a ball player in the form of a role model, etc., everything else will fix itself...
It starts in the home... parents stand up!!!
Although he put it bluntly, the pudding man is right....
Last edited by TACH on Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:46 am; edited 1 time in total
I have no problem with anything Mr. Cosby said.
People need to wake up and take responsibility for their children. It has been a full fledge assault on young minds by the media and it is about damn time parents start parenting and stand between their kids and the madness they are being fed.
How in the world is my crack head mother, and NO Show Daddy going Parent?
Their not.
Thats what people aren't willing to say. Truth is the kids need help. They need help from everyone. You've heard the saying, "it takes a village to raise a child". Nothing has changed. It still takes a village. the question is, do you want that village to spew negativity or positivity?
Kids learn from everyone and everything. not just their parents. sure thats the foundation. and I'm saying we know that foundation is shaky at best. So RIGHT NOW, what do you do? You do what you can, teachers have to parent. I know it isn't in their job description but it is what it is. Celebrities have to parent by giving off good positive messages and role models(that doesn't mean not making mistakes. but it does mean TRYING not to make bonehead mistakes. And once you've commited a mistake, Fess Up, apologize and Try not to make the same mistake twice).
While thats going on for the kids. then you work on the parents. lets try to get mama off the drugs, and first lets try to find out who the father is. once we do that. lets try to get him to understand and accept his responsibility.
For the record. When we say its the parents fault the kids are like they are. we're not telling the whole story. Truth be told. If its this many dead beat dads. and drug/alcohol addicted single mothers. Then what does that say about the grandparents of these children? Something started this trickle down effect. 9 times outta 10 people look to addictions to forget about the past, and to cover Low self esteem. Now we all know no one can boost your self esteem like a mother and father. So that tells me, while those grandparents were out working their tails off trying to make ends meet. they forgot the main ingredient... LOVE. You can live in a carboard box and eat scraps. but your child will have more self esteem then lets say bill gates kid. assuming gates doesn't take the time necessary to instill that high self esteem into his child. And its different for every kid. some kids need lots of time. some need just a little time.
i rather educate kids properly so they can understand the context rap music comes from.
putting the blame and responsibility on a 20 year old rapper who is expressing himself and speaking his mind about the world the way he sees it? doesn't seem right. _________________ 14-5-3-12
I agree in general with what Bill Cosby is saying. The glorification of violence, gangs and drugs in the black community as part of the rap thing is not a positive, regardless of if you enjoy the music or not.
Where it breaks down a bit though is Cosby being the one saying it as he has some pretty serious skeletons in his own closet. The women he (allegedly) groped and in some cases drugged were someone's daughters also. _________________ Love, Laker Lanny
I agree in general with what Bill Cosby is saying. The glorification of violence, gangs and drugs in the black community as part of the rap thing is not a positive, regardless of if you enjoy the music or not.
Where it breaks down a bit though is Cosby being the one saying it as he has some pretty serious skeletons in his own closet. The women he (allegedly) groped and in some cases drugged were someone's daughters also.
^^and this is the thing. If we're going to read everyone's resume before they can speak on anything. Then we need to all shut up and just keep doing whatever we're doing. whether its right or wrong. dont help the next guy succeed or do anything positive. do not tell the next kid what is right from wrong, because you have also done wrong.
Thats basically what some of you are saying. Because Bill has some skeletons that means bill can't talk? Do you understand thats the same reason some of these kids Crack Head mothers dont talk. Because they can't. they're own crack, or have been on crack. SO they think, "how can i tell my son or daughter not to do X, Y , and Z?"
Listen folks, There are 3 people you listen to for advice.
1.The guy who doesn't do much wrong, and mostly does things right
2.The guy who did a lot wrong, but got himself together and is now on the right path. And can tell you about the pitfalls and how to rise up.
3. The guy that is still doing alot wrong and has yet to get himself together. Because he can still tell you about the pitfalls.
a drunk, can still tell you "Dont drink, look at me as an example"
a gangsta can always tell you "dont be like me little man, this aint all its cracked up to be."
Therefore Bill Cosby, skeletons and all. Should be able to tell his people stop the sex,drugs, and violence music and come with something positive.
and to who said that these rappers are to young. Well to be honest only some of them are actually 21. others are 25+. So they've lived long enough. In addition, I could still kick a positive message to high school kids at age 21. You could do it at age 18. You've had some experience. I think we play our youth to short when it comes to stuff like that. Yes, they're young, but they're not that dumb. They can do better. and actually help the youth.
like i said, either way you look at it. You either have this young guy helping or hurting. you choose.
and last but not least. Label owners are almost always over 25 years of age. they're the ones putting this stuff out. making all the Ads for this stuff. Directing the videos, etc, etc. I want people to understand that the industry would rather you be really young. so you can be molded by them to do whatever they want you to do for money. if that means you're a cute little girl. they want you to sell sex. then they need you to be open about opening up your top and cutting that skirt in half. see a 30yr old attractive woman may not go for that. because she understands her value. Thats why they wouldn't even want to sign or deal with the 30year hot chick. even though she can sing, write her own songs, and looks good. If the labels said, Positive music only. Thats all these young men/women would come with. But thats not the case. the labels ask for newer versions of the current negative stuff you already here.
listing looks like such: looking for new hiphop artist with songs like [insert song from current artist].
so when you go out there looking for placement and deals. you better be just like the current group of mcees. and if that current group is all about sex, money, drugs, and violence. then you better get with the program or dont even submit your demo.
The only problem is that a huge percentage of the population does not teach their children right, and that percentage is very high among the poor population.
It's all a vicious cycle. Parents don't teach their kids right. Their kids become parents sooner or later (for the ones who don't DIE), and then they don't teach _their_ kids right. Breaking this chain is the bane of all who are dirt poor. Few leave the hood because the neighborhood gets to them. The neighborhood becomes their security blanket. They understand it, and live and die by it.
Bill's words has a lot of truth to them. Some people don't own up to them whatsoever, but they are very true. Get out of poverty. Get an education, and learn and live in the whole world; not just your neighborhood. Violence, and drug use really should not be glorified as kids are easily influenced. If you say that your environment doesn't influence you while you're growing up, then you haven't looked closely enough at major influencing factors in people's lives.
Before I make this comment, lemme make it clear: Im a huuuuuge Pac fan, and Im loyal to his legacy, now lets go to the point:
Pac is overrated these days, a lot of people keep saying he was ALL that, and they keep saying "Pac wouldnt do that", Ill quote Immortal Technique on this one, in one of the tracks from Revolutionary Vol2 (dont remember which one) he says: "You know what I think is just pathetic and gay? When (bleep) speculate what the (bleep) Pac would say. You dont know (bleep) about a dead man's perspective..."
He is right, people act like he is the ultimate Rap god on all facets, but I gotta say it, some people are better than him already. Immortal Technique is a better lyricist (maybe Nas is too), Ice Cube (from NWA days) had a better social approach, and Biggie had a better flow.
So why is it that Pac still remains at the top? His Charisma. Ive never seen someone with that charisma...all the other greats go trough some adversity that stops em from being admired by name (on Technique's case its cuz hes Peruvian for example), but Pac no, he stepped at the scene at the right time, when people needed a leader. Black movements were dying and he got them back, quoting Niccolo Machiavelli (whom Pac himself was clearly influenced by) to be able to succeed, a man needs two things: Virtue and Fortune.
Virtue is the pack of qualities the man must have, and Pac had em.
But Fortune is something that is not controlled by man's hands, its the luck to have an opportunity, throughout history lots of people have had Virtue but never had Fortune, so they couldnt create their legacy. Pac had Fortune, he was a leader and stepped up when people wanted one...musically speaking he was not the best, buit he was the public persona needed on that society. _________________ www.lakersbrasil.com
Fan site made by me and others, dedicated to posting Laker news and articles in portuguese.
Joined: 06 Apr 2004 Posts: 604 Location: Burbank, Ca
Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:13 pm Post subject:
TACH wrote:
^^ I was with you right up to the 'leader' part... Black Movement? Pac was a leader? Who did he lead?
Pac was a charismatic rapper, not MLK...
Pac was a leader in a different sense, Pac was a leader to those without life goals, to those undertaken by tragedy, to those who needed to "keep their head up"...
Pac was def a leader, a voice that is still heard today and a leader that has probably changed a lot of lives for the best... _________________ Deal Shrink
Joined: 03 Nov 2005 Posts: 28461 Location: Chillin on the Delaware.. from the Jersey Side
Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:36 pm Post subject:
Kobe_Please_Stay wrote:
TACH wrote:
^^ I was with you right up to the 'leader' part... Black Movement? Pac was a leader? Who did he lead?
Pac was a charismatic rapper, not MLK...
Pac was a leader in a different sense, Pac was a leader to those without life goals, to those undertaken by tragedy, to those who needed to "keep their head up"...
Pac was def a leader, a voice that is still heard today and a leader that has probably changed a lot of lives for the best...
Those of you that keep talking about the parents "job", the families "job" etc really dont get it.
Those that want a more enlightened understanding of media, music, entertainment etc for children, don't get it.
There is a situation right now where kids and the families that raise them are in "shambles". Music, TV, advertising, popular culture, poor cultural values are all smoothering an entire class of people (not just poor blacks) horribly.
The cycle continues.
Every part of our society should strive to get its act cleaned up for the sake of everyone. Cosby's harsh comments (about individual and parrent responsibility) are dead on.
Postandpivots comments about the media environment ONLY 20 years ago is DAY AND NIGHT from where we are today. Don't discount how large an impact this has on the country overtime. You must accept that there will be a massive percentage of the population that will fail in their child rearing duties. When that happens, the low-value media environment swoops for the kill.
^^ I was with you right up to the 'leader' part... Black Movement? Pac was a leader? Who did he lead?
Pac was a charismatic rapper, not MLK...
Pac was a leader in a different sense, Pac was a leader to those without life goals, to those undertaken by tragedy, to those who needed to "keep their head up"...
Pac was def a leader, a voice that is still heard today and a leader that has probably changed a lot of lives for the best...
Yes, Pac was definitely a leader. A leader who pointed to a gansta life, and glorified death. He helped add to the culture of live today because you could die tomorrow, so let's do the most damage now, when we still can.
Yes, he's definitely a leader; a leader to help make the cycle ever more vicious.
Joined: 12 Apr 2001 Posts: 9315 Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:52 pm Post subject:
OK, maybe I'm a little slow, but I've watched the documentaries about 2pac, listened to his rap, and I don't remember him saying he sold drugs, nor am I under the impression that he made the money which he used to buy his mom a house from dealing drugs. In "Changes", he even says that people who sell drugs to kids are sleazy. Yes, he glorified the thug lifestyle, and the use of guns, and I disagree with that, but where and how exactly did the make all this money selling drugs? He made it selling dvds that appealed to a certain audience, just like Cosby. _________________ I would rather have questions I cannot answer than answers I cannot question - Richard Feynman
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