Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 11:13 am Post subject: Marco Belinelli
This guy might end up as the best player available when we pick on draft day. If he drops he'd be a steal at #33.
He's supposedly got a phenomenal outside shot, and he clearly has some hops as well. Apparently they used him as a defensive stopper on his Italian team for a while. I know playing D on Euros is not the same as in the NBA, but at least he shouldn't be a complete liability.
Check this video out. There are a bunch of them on youtube, but this one gives a little clue as to why he might wear #8 for his Italian club.
I personally think he could be a great sidekick to Kobe with that shot of his. If he works some on his slashing moves he could be a solid pro. _________________ “This goes far beyond paychecks”
Not very good defensively at 1 or 2 as he lacks the quickness for the 1 and the strength for the 2.
And as DB has said before, the guy is a chucker. When he's on, he's on. When he's off, he continues chucking and his team loses.
I'll take him at 33, but not a moment sooner. Too much of a gunner for my taste. _________________ Stephon Marbury on Kobe: "He's the only person on 'dis earth that can do 'dat. He guards people, like shuts 'em down. Then, to do 'dat on 'da offensive end. It's like 'Damn, I can't score on him AND he about to bust my ass."
he is the guy i want us to draft.
he is ALREADY a star player - at 22 years old - dominating europian basketball, and still has major upside.
he has everything other triangle guards have had defenesively - there was never any stopper at the 1 for phil jackson - just great shooters who could stay with pg's - and marco can. he is a very good defender, and a great athlete.
a defensive stopper ? no. defenetly not at the nba level, but a solid defensive player who has the pottential to be much better with phil's coaching and kobe's motivation.
mark my words - there will be no other player available when we pick - who'll become a bigger star than marco.
in terms of his impact - he is a ginobily waiting to happen. for me - he falls into the category of the best player available for us - even thought we might want to draft at a different position like s.f.
i would grab him and move evans to back up luke, and i'd know that marco even has a chance to step in right now and play NEXT to kobe in the triangle.
he is one of the best shooters i've ever seen, very inteligent, team player, works hard on defense, and has the athletic ability to make plays happen and willingness to give up his own offense.
there is no better guard prospect for this team in this draft behind a.c. law imo.
this is already a europian superstar. this is no sasha that no one has ever heard of before mitch drafted him...
this guy is not only a great investment for our future, but also has the best chance of coming in and contributing right away out of any player who'll be available at 20.
if he's available - we'd be fools not to pick him up, and other gm's will be very very sorry they hadn't done that themselves.
i would go as far as trading up 3-4 spots to grab him.
imo he's that good for our team - at least compared to anyone else who's supposed to be available. i've seen enough of him by now to know that.
i know a lot of people will disagree, i'm sure the "sasha experience" has a lot to do with that, but this is a completely different cat.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 7:39 pm Post subject:
Quote:
there was never any stopper at the 1 for phil jackson
Except for Randy Brown, Bobby Hansen, and basically, Scottie Pippen.
I disagree that he'll even be a decent NBA defender. It looks good in international play, but was awful against NBA players during FIBA.
Quote:
Even though his ball handling and passing skills look decent, right now they don't seem to be enough for him to consistently play the point as he was projected earlier in his career, especially in the NBA. He doesn't protect the ball well enough and still has difficulties against full court pressure. Plus, it seems that this project has been momentarily dropped, as his team is developing him primarily as a shooting guard.
Defensively, he's good but probably won’t be able to guard NBA point guards, because he already suffers when a quicker opponent takes him off the dribble. His defense on pick & rolls could use some improvement as well.
Although he generally puts in a good effort, sometimes he seems to lose a bit of focus, either committing foolish fouls, trying a spectacular pass over a simple one, or being a little late rotating on defense. However, these things are not uncommon for a 20 year old player competing with grown men in one of the most competitive leagues in the world outside the NBA.
Says enough for me. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
give me a break mike. in all of phil's year in coaching - this is what you can come up with ?
2 back ups and a small forward ?
just say that i'm right, or don't say anything at all.
fact is, a defensive stopper playing big minutes at the 1 spot was never part of phil's teams. fact.
sure, we don't want defensive liablities - and neither does phil, but he's won his titles without having a defensive specialist playing pg for big minutes, and i'll save you the trouble of bringing up pippen again - fox never guarded pg's...
the only constant in tri guards (as much as can be constant for so many players) was great outside shooting.
there is no other pg prospect available at 19 that has a chance to be a starter for this team. the back up role is already occupied.
marco is the only one with a real shot, and worst case scenario - he backs up kobe as evans moves to sf back up duty.
and about marco - i hope you realize that scouting report is over a year old... marco was already a great player when they published it, but now - having grown from 20 to 21 years old (a critical time in a basketball players' career) - he's even a much better player than that report said, with every aspect of his game improving - including decision making, ball handling, and defense.
btw - you find me a draft prospect who might be available when we pick - who's weaknesses on draftexpress' scouting sound better - and that can be a start to your case.
actually, for the part of the report labled "weaknesses", this scouting actually sounds pretty good to me.
belinelli has what it takes, it just needs work and tweaking for any specific role he's asked to play, but the basic abilties - athletic and others - are already there, and will certainly improve under phil jackson.
this guy is a baller. flat out. this is no planinic, sasha, or welsch.
this is a top 5 guard playing basketball outside of the usa at the moment - and he's 21 years old.
but hey, if we're into this year old scouting report - why not post the rest of it ?
here, allow me...
Defensively, Belinelli is much more solid than many of the other young European prospects. In fact, in the past two seasons he was primarily used as a defensive specialist by his coach, as he can effectively guard multiple positions in Europe. He has good footwork and lateral quickness, which along with his length and quick hands in the passing lanes make him a great asset in pressure defense situations. He usually guards the opponents' best backcourt player. Climamio plays both man to man and zone, and his effectiveness is quite the same.
Generally, for a guy who's not even 20 years old, he shows good maturity when he's on the court, being known as a coachable player with a good work ethic. Climamio's coach Jasmin Repesa is known for his ability to develop young players, and was not afraid to give him meaningful minutes ever since Belinelli was 17 years old.
He already showed that he's a clutch player, as he's not afraid of taking big shots in the crucial moments, being a factor in his team's triumph in the past Italian League playoff Finals. The experience he has garnered playing at the highest level of competition to be found outside of the NBA is something that must be considered a huge plus; as Belinelli more than holds his own in the very tough Euroleague and Italian league.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:21 am Post subject:
Quote:
give me a break mike. in all of phil's year in coaching - this is what you can come up with ?
2 back ups and a small forward ?
just say that i'm right, or don't say anything at all.
Fine. You want a real argument?
You're wrong.
As soon as the quality of PG competition got better during the championship years, the Lakers STOPPED winning championships.
The Lakers weren't facing Terry Porter and Antonio Daniels anymore. It was an improved Tony Parker.
The Lakers weren't facing TO prone Jason Williams against the Kings. It was Mike Bibby.
Damon Stoudemire? Mark Jackson? Eric Snow? Oh please. Those were the easy years.
Jason Kidd didn't have enough talent on the Nets or Phoenix teams to get past Shaq. Even then, Kobe had to play PG defense against Kidd. NOT Ron Harper.
Next thing you know, it was Tony Parker, Mike Bibby, Steve Francis, Chauncey Billups.
Of course, Sam Cassell Joins Minny in 2003, and is able to win 2 games vs. the Lakers in the first round. Lakers didn't have tough first rounds like that, especially sweeping past the 1st round in 2001 and 2002. Then what happened? Parker improved and ousted the Lakers in the 2nd round.
Even Kupchak was smart enough to take on Payton and Malone. and for all the drama that happened during that particular season with Kobe's case, Payton's stubbornness against the triangle, Malone's first bigtime injury, the Lakers were #1 in the Pacific, neutralizing Parker, Cassell, and Francis until they hit Detroit; where EVERYONE of the starters were strong man defenders AND team defenders. The Lakers at least back to the level defensively among the elite. Lost in the Finals, but at least they made it there.
But of course, few Laker fans want to admit that Fisher after 2001 got roasted during the regular season, giving up career highs to Stephon Marbury, season highs to Francis, etc.
Why do you think that Phil Jackson admitted so many years later that he wish he didn't give up on Ruben Patterson?
What you completely disregard from your argument was how weak the PG competition USED to be and NOT how much stronger it is now. What, you're going to tell me that Miami won with Jason Williams and an older GP? Try telling me that Wade didn't initiate the offense for over half the game and basically scored 40ppg against Dallas. Not a pretty picture.
And, PG defenders were a part of Phil Jackson teams in Chicago. Otherwise Pippen wouldn't defend Magic Johnson. Randy Brown wouldn't defend Kevin Johnson. Pippen and Bobby Hansen wouldn't defend Gary Payton.
You don't stop them, but were they absolutely contained? You bet.
Funny, because even as inconsistent as Parker has been defensively, he doesn't get lit up like Fisher and actually comes up with key defensive steals and turnovers in the playoffs. Not bad for a guy who doesn't even make $1mil. Parker did the best job containing Nash last playoffs of the entire Phoenix playoff run. Can't tell me that didn't factor into the near Laker upset over Phoenix.
I think it sounds blatantly obvious when you hype up Belinelli so much. Considering how many players HAVE NOT declared for the draft, why do you think Belinelli is still mid-late 1st round?
You talk about the kid as if I've never seen him play. That's false.
If Belinelli is the BPA then fine. Otherwise, narrow-minding options to just 1 player 3 months prior to the draft is absolutely idiotic. Why do you think Kupchak got so fixated on Sasha and didn't really look elsewhere? He watched him for two years. Something about Sasha's game as a 17/18 year old Euro player with improvement said "He's gonna be a player." How many good players did Kupchak pass that year?
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:33 am Post subject:
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btw - you find me a draft prospect who might be available when we pick - who's weaknesses on draftexpress' scouting sound better - and that can be a start to your case.
This is what kills me about your fixation.
Quote:
Weaknesses: Defensively he may struggle to defend more athletic shooting guards as his lateral quickness is average at best … Tends to get caught up in shooting from the perimeter instead of driving the lane and drawing fouls. Should concentrate on becoming more aggressive using his athleticism to attack the basket … Ball protection is a work in progress as Belinelli can get careless with the ball … Does not make much of an impact on the glass … Needs to continue to work on conditioning as he shown the tendency to get worn down as the season progresses … Court vision leaves a little to be desired … Doesn’t convert shots when contact occurs on his drives due to his lack of upper body strength … Belinelli can go through streaky periods where he struggles with shooting consistency
He seems to rely too much on his jumper, and does not get to the free throw nearly as much as he could considering his athletic gifts. He could use some improvements in his shot too, as he sometimes tends to unnecessarily go off balance when shooting off the dribble or off screens.
Even though his ball handling and passing skills look decent, right now they don't seem to be enough for him to consistently play the point as he was projected earlier in his career, especially in the NBA. He doesn't protect the ball well enough and still has difficulties against full court pressure. Plus, it seems that this project has been momentarily dropped, as his team is developing him primarily as a shooting guard.
Defensively, he's good but probably won’t be able to guard NBA point guards, because he already suffers when a quicker opponent takes him off the dribble. His defense on pick & rolls could use some improvement as well.
Although he generally puts in a good effort, sometimes he seems to lose a bit of focus, either committing foolish fouls, trying a spectacular pass over a simple one, or being a little late rotating on defense. However, these things are not uncommon for a 20 year old player competing with grown men in one of the most competitive leagues in the world outside the NBA. …
We WANT aggressive SGs that can attack the basket AND play defense. NOT the opposite. He's a guy that clearly needs touches to make himself an effective player, and if he doesn't hit shots, he's a black hole on offense. He doesn't drive. He has conditioning problems. He can't keep up to average SGs? Do you know how many elitely athletic 2s are in the NBA? Talk about throwing up red flags. He'll score points and sell tickets, but won't help much in the playoffs when the game gets even more physical.
I'd rather take Brandon Rush, Alando Tucker, Marcus Williams, Nick Young, and arguably Aaron Afflalo over Belinelli.
Until Belinelli can show that he can do something other than hit a majority of mid and long range shots, I'm not all that impressed. At least I know Rush is a bit of a playmaker and strong defender. More athletic with better size. I know Tucker is just a more well-rounded player in every category. Just as good athletically, but far more disciplined. Marcus Williams almost sounds like Belinelli. Lacking intensity defensively, doesn't attack the basket that often, opts for midrange shots and perimeter game; but unlike Belinelli, has awesome teammates to defer to. Nick Young? Slashes, physical, athletic, defender, midrange game. Afflalo? Even when he has an off game, doesn't make dumb decisions in the halfcourt offense and literally shuts his man down defensively.
It's FAR easier to develop a jumpshot through work ethic, than to improve equally as well defensively, ball-handling, rebounding, passing, etc.
If you're that fixated on Draftexpress scouting reports, I agree with most of them, but not all. Read the profiles of the above listed players for yourself. Read Belinelli and Marcus Williams back to back and see the similarities. Read about the other players and how they're more well-rounded and can do other things on the floor. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:00 am Post subject:
Quote:
This guy might end up as the best player available when we pick on draft day. If he drops he'd be a steal at #33.
He's supposedly got a phenomenal outside shot, and he clearly has some hops as well. Apparently they used him as a defensive stopper on his Italian team for a while. I know playing D on Euros is not the same as in the NBA, but at least he shouldn't be a complete liability.
He won't make it past the first round. I'm not so sure if he'd be the BPA at #20.
Quote:
Defensively, Belinelli is much more solid than many of the other young European prospects. In fact, in the past two seasons he was primarily used as a defensive specialist by his coach, as he can effectively guard multiple positions in Europe. He has good footwork and lateral quickness, which along with his length and quick hands in the passing lanes make him a great asset in pressure defense situations. He usually guards the opponents' best backcourt player. Climamio plays both man to man and zone, and his effectiveness is quite the same.
Generally, for a guy who's not even 20 years old, he shows good maturity when he's on the court, being known as a coachable player with a good work ethic. Climamio's coach Jasmin Repesa is known for his ability to develop young players, and was not afraid to give him meaningful minutes ever since Belinelli was 17 years old.
He already showed that he's a clutch player, as he's not afraid of taking big shots in the crucial moments, being a factor in his team's triumph in the past Italian League playoff Finals. The experience he has garnered playing at the highest level of competition to be found outside of the NBA is something that must be considered a huge plus; as Belinelli more than holds his own in the very tough Euroleague and Italian league.
Let me tell you what I look for in European scouting reports.
I don't want to read about a guy who's solid defensively against his competition. I want to read about the guy has excellent physical tools and commitment to defense to hang with elite players in the NBA.
I want guys like Yannick Bokolo in the 2nd round. He's basically a stronger version of Smush Parker, except he excels more at defense. Doesn't have definitive PG playmaking skills, but he's aggressive attacking the basket and shutting down his man defensively. How good did he look last FIBA? Think 6'4" with 6'9" wingspan Darren Collison, only forcing more turnovers.
That's the kind of defense that'll hang at the NBA level. Not "decent size for an NBA SG" like Belinelli. Elite size for an NBA PG.
I don't even mind he'll be a bit of a project either. I want that guy in the 2nd round.
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Bokolo used his great length and lateral quickness to play solid defense in his 25 minutes on the floor. He was able to consistently stay in front of his man, and there was a clear let down defensively once Pape Philippe-Amagou came in to relieve him at point guard.
Essentially, that's what separates the Marko Jaric's of the NBA to the Mickeal Pietrus's and Andrei Kirilenko's. When FIBA comes around in August, it'll be too far past the draft, but you'll clearly see what I mean with international play against the NBA elite.
As for being clutch, Jaric got that same vote of confidence too. I'm beyond leery of guys who warrant so many shots and don't contribute consistently to other parts of the floor. If they don't get shots, they're not contributing much else.
It really is Marcus Williams all over again.
Do you really want a Mike Miller/Brent Barry type player on the team? That's precisely how Belinelli plays. Sub average D. Decent playmakers when they want to be. Perimeter shooting kings. Rarely drive. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
i would LOVE the lakers to get bokolo with their second 2nd round pick or perhaps even trade up a little bit in the 2nd round, if necessary, to get him...ive seen those clips before and his explosion/first step is barbosa-esque in some of his attacks to the basket...now i dont think he will be the offensive player barbosa is because i dont think he'll ever be as good a shooter but i think bokolo can be a tenacious defender...perhaps a taller/longer version of marcus banks...of course he could be useless too but i think it is a risk well worth taking in the 2nd round...the lakers could bring him over for summer league and see how he looks and send him back to europe for a year or two if necessary
as for belinelli, i never saw a scouting report for sasha, but i assume it would have looked similar/almost identical to what is written for belinelli
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:46 am Post subject:
cusu32000 wrote:
^^^
i would LOVE the lakers to get bokolo with their second 2nd round pick or perhaps even trade up a little bit in the 2nd round, if necessary, to get him...ive seen those clips before and his explosion/first step is barbosa-esque in some of his attacks to the basket...now i dont think he will be the offensive player barbosa is because i dont think he'll ever be as good a shooter but i think bokolo can be a tenacious defender...perhaps a taller/longer version of marcus banks...of course he could be useless too but i think it is a risk well worth taking in the 2nd round...the lakers could bring him over for summer league and see how he looks and send him back to europe for a year or two if necessary
as for belinelli, i never saw a scouting report for sasha, but i assume it would have looked similar/almost identical to what is written for belinelli
Playmaker close to two meters, Sasha is one of those players who leaves your mouth open with his fantastic plays. Handles the ball very adeptly. He's ambidexterous with the dribble and pass, and excells driving to the basket with both hands. Has instincts for the basket, drive and dish, He is a master in making clutch shots and has range. Above all he is a player who plays fearlessly. He still must learn the art of playmaking but he has innate leadership skills. He loves to get teammates involved. He has a great attitude and does not have a tendency to hold onto the ball too much. He must improve his outside accuracy, which will require hours of practice, but the makings are there. Not an explosive player. On defense he knows how to defend one-on-one and put pressure on the ball but suffers from lack of physical strength especially on the blocks.
He's a special player.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:58 am Post subject:
LakerLogic wrote:
at the Sasha profile.
Sasha leaves your mouth open, but not because of fantastic plays.
Belinelli is clearly a better one on one player than Sasha and better defender at the same relative age (though Sasha was drafted as a 19 year old), but, in comparison to Euro competition, you have to pay attention to just how dominant a player can be on offense and defense and not just "good"; to see how translatable the skills are.
I'm curious to see one on ones and individual workouts.
That'll be a tell-tale of draft position and indicator of player talent. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
mike - first of all - about your pg argument - sorry. i'm not convinced.
the bulls constantly faced star pg's and won titles.
so did the lakers.
lets just agree to disagree.
i'd love to have a great defender at the 1, i dont' see it as a crutial requirment from phil regarding the triangle.
and about marco - again, we just disagree. he is much more than a shot maker - i just don't know how much you've seen him play.
the sasha comparisions are ridiculous.
you could argue that there are 4-5 guards in the word today (outside of the u.s.) that are equal to marco. sasha was nothing more than a project.
marco right now is where ginobily was when he got drafted - a europian player of the year candidate (which ginobily won).
this is a completely different class of players than sasha - with all due respect.
and btw, i'm not fixated with draftexpress' scouting report - you were the one who brought PART of it up as the reasoning for your argument, so why do you have a problem with me bringing up the rest of it ?
bottom line, marco is a top notch guard in europe and an elite player against the best competition. at 6'5 he has experience playing pg, being used as a defensive specialist should at least tell you he has the ability to NOT be a liablity defensively in the nba, he has amazing shooting abilties, and plays with great court awarness and fire. all in a very athletic frame (not sure if there is a more athletic euro guard playing in the nba).
if you have the 20th pick in the draft, i believe there is no better 21 year old prospect who not only has great upside (more than any of the players you've mentioned imho), but also has a real chance of coming in and contributing right away in the nba than marco.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:01 am Post subject:
Quote:
marco right now is where ginobily was when he got drafted - a europian player of the year candidate (which ginobily won).
this is a completely different class of players than sasha - with all due respect.
Still don't care too much. Why? Ginobili didn't leave until he was 25.
I'd like quicker impact than that. Gino had the athletic skills to really play defense at the NBA level. Belinelli doesn't.
You talk of upside and I talk of better well-rounded fits with upside. I don't care about scoring ability as much as I care about defense, playmaking, and other sides of basketball.
Why? There are enough "passive scorers" on the Laker team that don't do much else. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Mike, it seems like you don't agree with the scouting reports that say Belinelli has good quickness and explosiveness, as well as long arms. All of those things are what you look for when assessing what kind of defender a player can become. Are the scouting reports wrong, or are you just overlooking those parts?
I'm not saying Belinelli is the end all, be all, the way davidse seems to. I just think he has an intriguing skill set. His outside shot sounds Reddick-esque, but unlike Reddick he is athletic and doesn't have T-rex arms. I see him as more of a combo guard than a full time 1. I know that having well rounded players is important to you, but if a guy can do one thing at an elite level (outside shooting) and isn't a complete liability everywhere else, isn't that worth something? _________________ “This goes far beyond paychecks”
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:35 pm Post subject:
^There's a distinct difference between good quickness and explosiveness at the NCAA level vs. European level.
Long arms? That's an NBA quality. I've seen Belinelli enough times.
What his game tells me is that he settles for those midrange shots because
A) He's not physical attacking the basket off the dribble.
B) He's not quick/fast/strong enough to attack.
C) He doesn't have good enough ball-handling skills to protect the dribble and the ball during dribble penetration.
I've read too many European scouting reports saying that Sasha has a decent first step, Marko Jaric is quick, Korolev is a very good athlete, etc.
But when I look to European players, I want attributes that'll make themselves stand out among NBA players. How fast is Parker? Barbosa? What other Power Forward outside of Pau Gasol is 7' with a 7'6" wingspan? How quick is Andrei Kirilenko? How good an overall athlete is Mickael Pietrus? How about how quick Andreis Biedrins is?
Those guys stand out. They're not borderline starters or permanent bench players. All of the guys I listed are aggressive players, except for Pietrus because he can't dribble well, but at least I know he can finish.
If I look at youtube videos of Belinelli vs. Bokolo, it's going to show Belinelli 360* dunks, lots of midrange shots, and not really driving in traffic. Contrast that to Bokolo, blocking layups as a 6'4" PG, full court defense, finishing in traffic, and hitting the occasional 3pointer. Which guy am I going to like more? I know Belinelli is the smarter player and more polished. I also know Bokolo is more aggressive with the better tools.
Find me a player like Thabo Sefalosha. I was absolutely convinced of his abilities on offense and defense in combination of size, length, and athleticism. Did a shockingly good job defensively as a rookie this season. I wanted that guy to be a Laker.
Most of those scouts I really don't put much weight on. They haven't really seen elitely athletic players.
Quote:
Strengths: Extremely athletic swingman, with great size, long arms and great explosiveness. His size and athleticism make him a very interesting prospect.
Sound familiar? Except, he's not much more athletic than the average NBA SG. Add to that that most NBA SFs/SGs are basically elite level athletes anyway. Desmond Mason. Gerald Wallace. Even Raja Bell and Cuttino Mobley are more athletic than these guys. I didn't even touch Gerald Green, JRich, Jason Terry, nevermind Carter, McGrady, Allen, Iverson, Bryant, etc. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
I hear what you are saying about judging athleticim, but I think you have missed my point slightly. I never intended to compare him to the likes of Parker, Barbosa, Pietrus, etc... I was just pointing out the reports of his athleticism in order to argue that he is not a complete stiff that will simply get abused in the NBA.
Most of those other guys were drafted on the basis of their athleticism (especially Pietrus and Sefalosha), the rest of their skills being average at best. With Belinelli I see it as kind of the inverse. Even if his athleticism is only average at best in the NBA, it is his shooting that is what will get him drafted.
If his shot making ability is a good as advertized, and he has some polish and hoop IQ to his game, doesn't that make him a solid prospect? _________________ “This goes far beyond paychecks”
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:20 pm Post subject:
Quote:
I was just pointing out the reports of his athleticism in order to argue that he is not a complete stiff that will simply get abused in the NBA.
If you read about Ukic and other prospects, their reports sound just as glowing as Belinelli's. Watching gametape, he's not the player I want on the Laker team, especially at the SG position.
Based on the basis of athleticism? Yes on Pietrus and Biedrins, but Parker could dribble and finish, Kirilenko was a well-rounded defender and unorthodox offensive player, Sefalosha had those basis of skills based on his play in Switzerland.
Quote:
Even if his athleticism is only average at best in the NBA, it is his shooting that is what will get him drafted.
If his shot making ability is a good as advertized, and he has some polish and hoop IQ to his game, doesn't that make him a solid prospect?
Ask yourself. Do I want that guy creating the shots? Or do I want another shooter who knows he'll be the recipient of playmaking from Bryant, Odom, etc. I don't want Belinelli creating the shots, especially from such a streaky player. I'd rather have Kapono on the wings hitting 3's at a near 50% clip.
As for a solid prospect, I always look at 2-way players, offense and defense, rather than just offense. Offense is the easiest to improve on. Jumpshooting is THE easiest thing to improve on. Even Ben Wallace can hit midrange jumpers but is reluctant to shoot.
What are the toughest things to improve? Ball-handling. Defense. Aggressive play. All of Belinelli's weakspots.
Otherwise, for such an accredited Euro player in a relatively thin draft, Belinelli should go lotto.
Players like Corey Brewer, Thaddeus Young, Nick Young, are chosen not just because they're more athletic, but they offer other abilities outside of just shooting. Defense. Rebounding. 1 on 1 ability. Ball-handling. Aggressive play.
I'd rather take Afflalo. His shot may be steaky (that'll be improved on, he has an odd hitch and release on his jumper) but his defense by far is elite NBA worthy and consistent every night. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
belinelli is nothing like ukic, or any other euro youngster with a nice scouting report BECAUSE HE HAS ALREADY BEEN AN ELITE EURO PLAYER FOR THE PAST 3 YEARS.
huge difference. huge.
and how is his relative inablity/unwillingness to drive a weakness for us ?
once again - when did phil jackson EVER had a pg who could drive to the basket ??? it's even more obvious than the defensive stopper comment.
it's just not needed to play the tri.
being able to create your own shot in general, or drive to the hoop specificaly, was apparnetly never high on phil jackson's list of requierments from his pg's, and there's no reason to think that has changed.
there's no reason to think marco can't become at least as effective as b. shaw was in the triangle - without even being overly optimistic about how he turns out (he still only just turned 21 !), and possibly, even much more than that.
sure - if a guy can drive to the hoop - we'll take it. but the only one constant which matterred to phil jackson with all of his starting guards, is the outside shooting.
combine that with the physical tools marco does have - defenetly in contrast to farmar (which is allways nice) - and you have a pottentialy great fit at guard for this team, and possible future starter - perhaps not even the very distant future.
his best case scenario and worst case scenario are terrific for this team.
and when did i ever say he was the "end all" ?
i am saying that at 19, or even possibly as high as 15-16 - he is the best we can do for ourselves.
Good points Mike, thank you. I don't know if I'd go as far as taking Afflalo over Marco (especially after that last game) but I hear what you are saying.
I actually agree with you when it comes to putting a premium on effective athleticism and defensive ability. There' a reason why players like Brandon Rush and Dominic McGuire are high on my list of personal favorites. Just playing a bit of devil's advocate for a player that I think *could* have a solid impact in the NBA. _________________ “This goes far beyond paychecks”
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:23 pm Post subject:
Quote:
belinelli is nothing like ukic, or any other euro youngster with a nice scouting report BECAUSE HE HAS ALREADY BEEN AN ELITE EURO PLAYER FOR THE PAST 3 YEARS.
huge difference. huge.
and how is his relative inablity/unwillingness to drive a weakness for us ?
once again - when did phil jackson EVER had a pg who could drive to the basket ??? it's even more obvious than the defensive stopper comment.
it's just not needed to play the tri.
Don't care. His best skill is midrange shooting and it's of my opinion that he can't hang with NBA PGs and SGs at the NBA level.
You think it's best to have a shooter at PG and not a guy who can drive.
I want a guy who can drive a little, shoot a little, pass, and outright defend.
You can absolutely see all of those skills in Nick Young, Corey Brewer, Acie Law, and Alando Tucker against strong NCAA competition.
I don't see much of that kind of 2-way game or well-roundedness between Belinelli and Fernandez. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
actually, belinelli's best skill is long distant shooting - not mid range shooting. he is an amazing long range shooter.
and in all honesty - i dont' trust my basketball knowledge enough to declare that we need anything that phil jackson has never had before at pg - and he never had guys who could drive to the basket - but allways had great shooters (i think harper was the worst shooting pg he's ever had, and harper was decent).
about rudy - i think he could be a very good nba player, but he is not as good at long range shooting as marco, and he is much more of a shooting guard than marco who is much more of a tweener.
lets just hope we trade up for brewer and save ourselves this discussion...
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