Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:57 pm Post subject:
Quote:
MR2 and GT-R are two different animals.
Exactly. Which is why even if I had the money, I wouldn't buy one.
Get me a 911 Turbo or R8 V12 TDi instead.
You know, just something with different balance and feel to the car to actually challenge the driver to exploit the limits... _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Exactly. Which is why even if I had the money, I wouldn't buy one.
Get me a 911 Turbo or R8 V12 TDi instead.
You know, just something with different balance and feel to the car to actually challenge the driver to exploit the limits...
Well, I'm sure you're just comparing the GT-R to those cars based on performance but you know that the price difference is pretty significant. The expected price tag for the GT-R is around $70k (barring dealer mark-ups for the first few) while both Porsche and Audi are in the 6 figure range (~$150-170k). I think considering the price and what the car has to offer, that's what makes it so attractive. _________________ "It's just fo' decoration! That's it and that's all, man; we do it fo' decorations." -Lil Sis
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 6:40 pm Post subject:
tortuga wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:
MR2 and GT-R are two different animals.
Exactly. Which is why even if I had the money, I wouldn't buy one.
Get me a 911 Turbo or R8 V12 TDi instead.
You know, just something with different balance and feel to the car to actually challenge the driver to exploit the limits...
Well, I'm sure you're just comparing the GT-R to those cars based on performance but you know that the price difference is pretty significant. The expected price tag for the GT-R is around $70k (barring dealer mark-ups for the first few) while both Porsche and Audi are in the 6 figure range (~$150-170k). I think considering the price and what the car has to offer, that's what makes it so attractive.
Ah of course, the price bracket.
Like I said, numbers. But, if I had that kind of money, and even if the GTR is faster around a track, there's no question that I'd fork over the extra dough for the Audi or Porsche. I'd buy a car over how much fun I'd have driving it far more over how much value I'd get on performance per dollar.
But hey, if you really wanted to save a crapload of $ and nearly match the performance figures, just get a used C6 and mod it slightly.
Or better yet, get a Mini Cooper and swap a B16 in there.
I wish we had a lot more options of these kinds of cars in the US.
Hey Mike, and others...I have a quick question. My lease is up soon so I was wondering what car I should get? I'm looking for a car in the $55k range Canadian. Now I know the currencies are the same but cars are obviously cheaper in the States. Anyway, I'm looking at perhaps $45-48 range US. My current car is an 04 Murano...I liked it. I wanted an SUV/crossover and this seemed to be great for the price. I'm happy with what I got from it. Anyway I'm sort of confused as to what I should get for my next car; here are some that I have thought of.
Keep in mind I need an AWD due to the weather. A crossover or sedan doesnt matter much...but I need to keep the payment the same or maybe try to cut down. What suggestions do you guys have for this lost Canuck ?
Exactly. Which is why even if I had the money, I wouldn't buy one.
Get me a 911 Turbo or R8 V12 TDi instead.
You know, just something with different balance and feel to the car to actually challenge the driver to exploit the limits...
Well, I'm sure you're just comparing the GT-R to those cars based on performance but you know that the price difference is pretty significant. The expected price tag for the GT-R is around $70k (barring dealer mark-ups for the first few) while both Porsche and Audi are in the 6 figure range (~$150-170k). I think considering the price and what the car has to offer, that's what makes it so attractive.
Ah of course, the price bracket.
Like I said, numbers. But, if I had that kind of money, and even if the GTR is faster around a track, there's no question that I'd fork over the extra dough for the Audi or Porsche. I'd buy a car over how much fun I'd have driving it far more over how much value I'd get on performance per dollar.
But hey, if you really wanted to save a crapload of $ and nearly match the performance figures, just get a used C6 and mod it slightly.
Or better yet, get a Mini Cooper and swap a B16 in there.
I wish we had a lot more options of these kinds of cars in the US.
lol I guess the GT-R won't get much love from you. The Audi or the Porsche is still twice the amount of money it will cost to get the GT-R though. But I guess if you can afford a $70k car, chances are good that you can probably afford the others as well. And believe me, I'll probably get the Germans too if I had that much $$$ to spend on a car.
Corvette is a great choice too and probably has the best value out of them all.
I'm not feeling those little cars in the video but yea, I agree on having more options in the US. Although not little cars, I think we're starting to see some changes though (i.e. GT-R, Mini, some Holden's for GM, etc.). _________________ "It's just fo' decoration! That's it and that's all, man; we do it fo' decorations." -Lil Sis
Last edited by tortuga on Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:09 am; edited 2 times in total
Hey Mike, and others...I have a quick question. My lease is up soon so I was wondering what car I should get? I'm looking for a car in the $55k range Canadian. Now I know the currencies are the same but cars are obviously cheaper in the States. Anyway, I'm looking at perhaps $45-48 range US. My current car is an 04 Murano...I liked it. I wanted an SUV/crossover and this seemed to be great for the price. I'm happy with what I got from it. Anyway I'm sort of confused as to what I should get for my next car; here are some that I have thought of.
Keep in mind I need an AWD due to the weather. A crossover or sedan doesnt matter much...but I need to keep the payment the same or maybe try to cut down. What suggestions do you guys have for this lost Canuck ?
I think those are all great choices...well, some more so than others. Here's my opinion on each:
1. 09 Murano (re-designed 265hp): I like the improvements on the interior and others but not really feeling the grille and the headlights.
2. Infiniti ( Ex-35 ): Good choice. The engine is bullet proof and I'd get it over Murano. But the interior is smaller than the Murano.
3. 08 Cadillac CTS: I've never driven it but it's gotten good reviews.
4. Infiniti G35: This is a safe bet.
5. Acura RDX (Meh): RDX is alright but if you compare it to those listed above, you'll probably be disappointed. I was especially disappointed with the gas mileage considering it's a 4 banger (almost as bad as our '06 Acura RL)...although it is a turbo. The cargo space is also disappointing. I'd get a wagon over this if you want cargo space.
I'd also add Subaru Legacy, Lexus IS250 AWD, BMW 328/335xi, and the new re-designed '09 Audi A4 (probably have to wait for this one) on your list.
Good luck. _________________ "It's just fo' decoration! That's it and that's all, man; we do it fo' decorations." -Lil Sis
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:26 am Post subject:
I'd look at the Legacy GT and never look back. Gas mileage may be a bit disappointing, but I think it's more exclusive, more fun to drive, and more reliable than any of the other cars listed.
I don't like getting new cars when they're newly redesigned or even have small drivetrain components redesigned. Reliability tends to become more of an issue. That crosses out the EX35 fromt the getgo.
But from the given list, G35.
Quote:
I agree on having more options in the US. Although not little cars, I think we're starting to see some changes though (i.e. GT-R, Mini, some Holden's for GM, etc.).
Like I said, I have specific tastes. I really hate how cars have gotten so huge over the years. I bet no one around here remembers when the Camry was actually a compact car in the 80s, (Smaller than a '98 Corolla) and just get growing to mid-size sedan, with the current one nearly a large size sedan. Increasing size and weight just deters performance, has wasted materials, gas mileage, fun factor, etc. Just the general public really doesn't know much better other than 270hp, 20-30mpg, safety, reliability.
I don't think that most people on this board would like the cars in the videos but if you think about it, that's all most people from HS to post-college graduation actually need.
Fun to drive 64-90hp cars with 4WD or MR layouts with less than 2100lbs. of weight getting over 50mpg with ability to carry passengers? It's a no-brainer to me. Gotta drive them to realize how fun it is when the tach is on 8k going just over 75mph on a mid-engine, rwd car that has plenty of grip... _________________ Resident Car Nut.
you got that right. Although Im not impressed with the Audi's electrical problems.
Recently got a 2007 infiniti g35S. Was happy with it to begin with but currently looking at other options. Maybe a TL typeS. I heard they are re-designing the 09 typeS so not too sure what to get. Anyone else hear this?
Another car I am looking at is a Lexus IS 350. The IS-F numbers look bad ass but for the price, im salivating at the 09 M3 that will be going on sale in late 2008. I will see what prices are like because I really miss driving my old ride..........f'ing cars, always changing and always costing more. _________________ Music is my medicine
BTW, I think the GT-R will surprise people. AWD, lots of ponies, great interior and probably pretty afforadble maintenance. But for the price, I'd still prefer the upcoming BMW M3. Its going to be a beast!!!!
The GT-R is a little on the heavy side but I think it looks great. The numbers look good as well but I won't make any conclusions until I sit in one and take it for a drive. I have a feeling we'll be seeing quite a few on the road. _________________ Music is my medicine
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:32 pm Post subject:
Vancouver Fan wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Get me a 911 Turbo or R8 V12 TDi instead.
you got that right. Although Im not impressed with the Audi's electrical problems.
Recently got a 2007 infiniti g35S. Was happy with it to begin with but currently looking at other options. Maybe a TL typeS. I heard they are re-designing the 09 typeS so not too sure what to get. Anyone else hear this?
Another car I am looking at is a Lexus IS 350. The IS-F numbers look bad ass but for the price, im salivating at the 09 M3 that will be going on sale in late 2008. I will see what prices are like because I really miss driving my old ride..........f'ing cars, always changing and always costing more.
I am definitely biased to cars of the early to mid 90s. None of this mandatory Traction control crap for 2008 and later.
I'd recommend a TL Type S as well. It's not one of my favs, but that's out of personal bias. It is a great car.
IS350 is great too, though, it really numbs out the road for any indication of performance driving.
You get the '09 M3, and when I earn the $, I'll get the '03 M5.
You'd be shocked how similar the specifications are across the board. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
you got that right. Although Im not impressed with the Audi's electrical problems.
Recently got a 2007 infiniti g35S. Was happy with it to begin with but currently looking at other options. Maybe a TL typeS. I heard they are re-designing the 09 typeS so not too sure what to get. Anyone else hear this?
Another car I am looking at is a Lexus IS 350. The IS-F numbers look bad ass but for the price, im salivating at the 09 M3 that will be going on sale in late 2008. I will see what prices are like because I really miss driving my old ride..........f'ing cars, always changing and always costing more.
I am definitely biased to cars of the early to mid 90s. None of this mandatory Traction control crap for 2008 and later.
I'd recommend a TL Type S as well. It's not one of my favs, but that's out of personal bias. It is a great car.
IS350 is great too, though, it really numbs out the road for any indication of performance driving.
You get the '09 M3, and when I earn the $, I'll get the '03 M5.
You'd be shocked how similar the specifications are across the board.
... well, of course, you're not considering that M5 would have a lot of miles on it and will break down.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:03 pm Post subject:
Quote:
... well, of course, you're not considering that M5 would have a lot of miles on it and will break down.
And you're not considering that there are M5s out there that have less than 60,000 on the clock anyway. Funnier part is, I've seen Audi's have breakdowns with less than 30,000 miles on the clock anyway. Seems mileage isn't the issue here.
Just because previous generation BMW M3s needed complete engine replacements doesn't mean people stopped buying them.
Quote:
That's being completely subjective.
Sure, it doesn't have the fire of a Ferrari per se, but I'll take it over any of those cars you mentioned as having character besides the Turbo.
I mean seriously.... Subarus? MR2? Elise? TT? Are you kidding?
And what's an R8 doing there? That's just a fat luxury car with a nice engine.
Character and performance considered, those cars aren't in the same league as the GTR.
Well that was my point. GTR numbers. That doesn't mean I'd like driving them on the road, whatever numbers it puts up. I don't really care. To you, a GTR may have more character. I just disagree, because it's simply not my preference. So, what's the big deal?
See, you said it yourself. "It'll take over any of those cars you mentioned." Except, I don't care about that because I think, it's crap. You're not going to exploit anywhere near the limits of what that car could do on the road anyway. So, at least, I'd rather have a car challenge me a bit with balance and handling even on more normal speeds for road use.
What's an R8 doing there? What's a GTR doing in here? I could easily say that's just a fat car with a nice engine too, except, R8's are mid-engined and the diesel has over 730lb.ft. torque and gets 24mpg on a 6 speed manual. If a driver can't even tell the difference in handling characteristics between a front engine/AWD as opposed to a mid engine/AWD, then that driver REALLY hasn't exploited anything near the limits of the suspension at all.
I don't expect people to like the cars that I do because I've said repeatedly, I have specific tastes. This isn't a performance car war, this is about what a person would prefer to have. And, when my opinions of great cars are lightweight, nimble, and fun-to-drive cars instead of great 0-60 numbers, skidpad numbers, top speed and track times, then of course I don't expect you to agree with my opinion.
I just really think, a lot of people out there don't understand that you don't need a v6 twin turbo or even a v12 to have fun driving. But then again, I think I do A LOT more canyon driving than most on here, so it shouldn't be surprising when I definitely am more biased to nimble, lightweight, great handling cars with a better sense of balance.
If anything, I'm shocked just how much people in the U.S. are robbed of fun daily driving cars that are sold greatly in Europe. If you can't exploit the limits of smaller cars and have fun, you definitely can't with bigger, more powerful cars either.
Nevermind the fact that so few U.S. drivers have actually tried real racing go-karts, and it's not like you're breaking 60mph often, but no one denies the challenge and how much fun it is either.
As if anyone would really notice those tenths of a second difference 0-60, or 0.04g difference on a skidpad anyway. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:02 pm Post subject:
shnjb wrote:
Well, it's one thing if you were consistent with your love for smaller, nice handling cars, but when I saw R8, that theory went out the window.
GTR is supposedly a great handling car anyway... what's the big deal?
Sure, it packs a ridiculous amount of weight, but so do the new BMW M's.
Right, except an M5 can seat 5 comfortably and has great driving dynamics...
GTR can do that as well?
You're also right about the new BMW M's, which is why I said I prefer the previous generation M5s. About the same weight as the GTR, but more utility. Awfully fun to drive as well.
Apparently, there's no gray area for you when it comes to me just not liking GTRs, but somehow I can't like other bigger, higher performance cars as well.
This is like a Z06 thread on another car forum. Z06 is so great because look at the numbers it puts up because of the cost....
As if I'd ever buy a Z06 or GTR, nevermind actually be happier with a perceived "lesser performing" car even if I had the money.
I prefer the engines behind me for handling dynamics. That's why I prefer the Porsche Turbo and Audi R8 over a GTR.
Better question. Why can't you just leave me to my opinion? As if you perceive it as "wrong"?
Aren't there cars that you like regardless of what performance numbers are put up? Have you driven cars that are "fun" regardless of those numbers? _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Clearly as long as we're discussing opinions, disagreements are inevitable.
I am unable to leave you to your opinion, because that was the topic of debate.
And per your request, I will drop the subject of your dislike for GTR, as arguments require both parties to engage.
As far as the Z06 though, I hate most American cars just as much as anyone, but when the Z06 broke through and became the super handling, (some) Ferrari-outpacing supercar that it is today, I changed my tune.
I guess I look for certain qualities in cars and as long as a car meets them, I tend to like it.
Another thing about GTR- although R34 was certainly extremely cool while I was in highschool, as I grew older I couldn't seriously see myself buying such a car as long as I was not in highschool.
But the grown up looks of this version definitely has me interested; if I could afford to buy one today, I would.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:16 pm Post subject:
shnjb wrote:
Clearly as long as we're discussing opinions, disagreements are inevitable.
I am unable to leave you to your opinion, because that was the topic of debate.
And per your request, I will drop the subject of your dislike for GTR, as arguments require both parties to engage.
As far as the Z06 though, I hate most American cars just as much as anyone, but when the Z06 broke through and became the super handling, (some) Ferrari-outpacing supercar that it is today, I changed my tune.
I guess I look for certain qualities in cars and as long as a car meets them, I tend to like it.
Another thing about GTR- although R34 was certainly extremely cool while I was in highschool, as I grew older I couldn't seriously see myself buying such a car as long as I was not in highschool.
But the grown up looks of this version definitely has me interested; if I could afford to buy one today, I would.
And that's your opinion.
If I had the $ of the GTR, I assume $70k, I'd definitely enjoy having an Audi TT as a daily driver and an MR2 Spyder for the canyons for the same price.
I've been fortunate enough to drive a Z06. Too raw a car for my tastes.
Or hell, get me a Suzuki Sport Swift as a daily driver and an Elise as well. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Clearly as long as we're discussing opinions, disagreements are inevitable.
I am unable to leave you to your opinion, because that was the topic of debate.
And per your request, I will drop the subject of your dislike for GTR, as arguments require both parties to engage.
As far as the Z06 though, I hate most American cars just as much as anyone, but when the Z06 broke through and became the super handling, (some) Ferrari-outpacing supercar that it is today, I changed my tune.
I guess I look for certain qualities in cars and as long as a car meets them, I tend to like it.
Another thing about GTR- although R34 was certainly extremely cool while I was in highschool, as I grew older I couldn't seriously see myself buying such a car as long as I was not in highschool.
But the grown up looks of this version definitely has me interested; if I could afford to buy one today, I would.
Joined: 17 May 2001 Posts: 514 Location: LA native, born and raised
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:13 am Post subject:
I can see Mike, you are a connoisseur of the driving experience. I think that is what makes you happy and it's not about what the car can offer you but what you can do with the car itself.
Shnjb, I believe the GTR is a technical marvel. IMHO the 70k is worth the price tag of this car. While it doesn't suit many people's tastes anyone that's been a fan of the prior Skyline's has to be excited about this car.
Vancouver Fan - I'm loving the new m3 as well however I'm feeling you get more for your money with the 335i and it's mod friendliness. Then again you can say I'm a bit biased being a e92 driver myself.
Joined: 19 Jul 2005 Posts: 14660 Location: unfortunately not Los Angeles anymore
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:19 am Post subject:
Socks wrote:
Have an audi a4 quattro now which is a lot more fun to drive and a lot safer in the snow but I do worry about reliability...
I had one of those... 'til recently the transmission crapped out on me. I traded it in for an Acura TL 3.2.
Doesn't drive as nice...but gets better gas mileage (I had the 3.0 v6)
I can't find a way to get my backseats to fold down so I can fit my surfboard... that's my main gripe about the TL
you got that right. Although Im not impressed with the Audi's electrical problems.
Recently got a 2007 infiniti g35S. Was happy with it to begin with but currently looking at other options. Maybe a TL typeS. I heard they are re-designing the 09 typeS so not too sure what to get. Anyone else hear this?
Another car I am looking at is a Lexus IS 350. The IS-F numbers look bad ass but for the price, im salivating at the 09 M3 that will be going on sale in late 2008. I will see what prices are like because I really miss driving my old ride..........f'ing cars, always changing and always costing more.
I am definitely biased to cars of the early to mid 90s. None of this mandatory Traction control crap for 2008 and later.
I'd recommend a TL Type S as well. It's not one of my favs, but that's out of personal bias. It is a great car.
IS350 is great too, though, it really numbs out the road for any indication of performance driving.
You get the '09 M3, and when I earn the $, I'll get the '03 M5.
You'd be shocked how similar the specifications are across the board.
how so? thats an interesting take. You see this somewhere or are you basing this on the specs? I figured they'd be totally different entities. _________________ Music is my medicine
Clearly as long as we're discussing opinions, disagreements are inevitable.
I am unable to leave you to your opinion, because that was the topic of debate.
And per your request, I will drop the subject of your dislike for GTR, as arguments require both parties to engage.
As far as the Z06 though, I hate most American cars just as much as anyone, but when the Z06 broke through and became the super handling, (some) Ferrari-outpacing supercar that it is today, I changed my tune.
I guess I look for certain qualities in cars and as long as a car meets them, I tend to like it.
Another thing about GTR- although R34 was certainly extremely cool while I was in highschool, as I grew older I couldn't seriously see myself buying such a car as long as I was not in highschool.
But the grown up looks of this version definitely has me interested; if I could afford to buy one today, I would.
And that's your opinion.
If I had the $ of the GTR, I assume $70k, I'd definitely enjoy having an Audi TT as a daily driver and an MR2 Spyder for the canyons for the same price.
I've been fortunate enough to drive a Z06. Too raw a car for my tastes.
Or hell, get me a Suzuki Sport Swift as a daily driver and an Elise as well.
you love it that much huh? They were super fun when I rented but after having it for a couple days I wouldn't buy it for everyday commute. Very uncomfortable on bumpy roads and not very practical. _________________ Music is my medicine
Vancouver Fan - I'm loving the new m3 as well however I'm feeling you get more for your money with the 335i and it's mod friendliness. Then again you can say I'm a bit biased being a e92 driver myself.
yeah dude, i used to have the last gen M3 but the maintenance costs were killing me over the last two years. Got the infiniti a few months ago and am already looking to exchange it for something with more heart.....I dont know how to explain it. Its a good car but there is something missing.
The e92 is a great car, when it was introduced, I loved the lines and everything that it was about. The new M3 will just be a lot more fun to drive I think. We will see when it comes to sale in Canada and take one for a rip. I usually make the final say after the drive......
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you love it that much huh? They were super fun when I rented but after having it for a couple days I wouldn't buy it for everyday commute. Very uncomfortable on bumpy roads and not very practical.
