LAKERS -at- WIZARDS - 12/5 - Thoughts and :-)) Ratings
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> Thoughts and Ratings Reply to topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
DancingBarry
Editor-in-Chief
Editor-in-Chief


Joined: 07 Sep 2001
Posts: 40218
Location: O.C.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:26 pm    Post subject: LAKERS -at- WIZARDS - 12/5 - Thoughts and :-)) Ratings

Growing Pains... If they want a reputation as a team that will cough up a lead, the Lakers are trying their best to build it. After choking away another huge fourth-quarter lead tonight, they dodged a bullet at the buzzer -- a missed three that would have given them another last-second road loss.

They got burned in Indy after playing with fire. They escaped in D.C. with the 106-104 win. They should have won by 30...easily.

Twice the starters gave the second-unit large double digit leads (leading by as many as 20). Twice the bench choked it away.

I can't even credit the Wizards in this one. When you watch this Laker team enough, you know when they are going through the motions, and when they are fighting. The second unit looked more like they wanted to make a highlight reel play than doing the dirty work that you need on the road.

What's up with the Lakers, Pau? "Mental focus," he said. "You've got to have guys come in the game and being ready to play."

Mental focus. Killer instinct. Assistant Coach Jim Cleamons says this team isn't ready to go for 70 wins, despite the 16-2 start. "The team, as we sit right now, it's not mature enough to win that amount of games. It's about talent on one hand, but it's about maturity on the other hand. The team that won 72, that team had been together."

Phil said he's learning what this team is made of. He doesn't like some of the things he sees in the second unit when they are out on the road. He blamed himself for "putting too much trust and faith in a younger group -- a second unit. They just can't hold it on the road. They can't withstand the fury or the intensity of the fourth quarter. I'm going to have to change it up a little bit."

The coaches are calling the guys out.

There are certainly plenty of unexplored possibilities with the lineups and rotations. Stay tuned to see what kind of changes he has in mind. Bynum ( a season-high 19 points and 10 boards) -- once again -- wasn't in the game to lock down at the end.


Kobe -- -- Despite the cold shooting, Kobe had been putting together a pretty smooth game. He was picking apart the opponent with passes and manufacturing points at the line. However, the offensive execution down the stretch was miserable. Kobe was forcing missed jumpers as others watched. They had been better at executing recently, but fell back into that bad habit tonight. Kobe struggled with his shot and some of that late-game shot selection probably wasn't the best with his cold hand. He did do a great job manufacturing points at the line. He finally missed his last freethrow with 13 seconds because this team enjoys a good scare. Much better job on the boards. We need that from him and he pulled down some good ones in traffic. The Stats: He scored 23 points on 5-17 shooting (0-1 from three, 13-14 from the line) to go with 7 boards, a team-high 7 assists, 2 turnovers and 2 fouls in 35 minutes. The Action: He attacked and lobbed to Bynum for the dunk. Kobe attacked down the lane, threw the pass off the glass to himself, then pitched it out to Pau for the open jumper (I've never seen that sequence in a game before). He was hit on the arm on the pull-up jumper for FTs, he made both. He missed strong off the glass on a runner. He dunked on an outlet after the Wizards blew a 4-on-1 break (note Kobe wasn't back on D). He attacked and was tugged by the arm, he made both FTs. He missed a transition three from the wing. He missed a jumper short. He drew FTs, he made both. He faced up, picked out his spot and banked the jumper from the wing. He changed pace off the dribble and was back to the line, he made both FTs. He forced and missed a runner, taking on the entire Wizards team. He had 12 points on 2-7 shooting and 5 boards. Second Half: He swished a long baseline jumper off the Bynum screen. He missed a long jumper, stalling the offense. He attacked and dumped a sweet no-looker to Pau for the dunk. He attacked and kicked to DFish for the three. He missed a baseline turnaround. He backdoored his man, took a pass and drew FTs, he made both. He attacked and kicked to Vlad for a three. He threw down a pumping reverse jam off the Ariza steal and behind-the-back pass. He missed a long jumper, forced it. He pumpfaked Young into the air (sucker) and drew FTs with 1 second left on the shotclock, he made both FTs. He dove to the floor to recover a ball, then passed to Lamar who drew FTs with the shotclock low. He missed a 22-footer. He hoisted up another jumper with 1 minute left and missed, poor shot selection. He lost the handle, got it back, spun and went glass with the 10-footer from the right side to give the Lakers a 3-point lead with 24 seconds left. Perfect from the line all game (12-12), he went back to the stripe with 13.5 seconds left up by 1, he made just one.

Gasol -- -- Offensively, Pau set up others and scored in his usual variety of ways. Late in the game, he missed another jumper. I think he's actually more clutch working from the post. That seems to me where his big plays consistently come from when in the pressure cooker. I wonder if Pau might get more minutes with second unit on the road versus Bynum in the future. He might stablize that unit more than Bynum. Even though Drew is playing well and needs to get those touches to develop, the second unit seemed to click better with Pau in the middle. Like Indy, Pau had another of those games where he struggled from the line. The Stats: He scored 17 points on 7-11 shooting (3-6 from the line) to go with 10 boards (4 offensive), 6 assists, 2 steals, 2 turnovers and 1 fouls in 37 minutes. The Action: He swished a short 9-footer on the first shot of the game. He hit the baseline jumper off the kickout from Kobe (who passed off the glass to himself first). He missed a runner with his left. He somehow squeezed through a double team and hit a leaner a couple feet away. Center sprint, he got the pass in early offense and instantly drew a foul, he made one FT. He dunked off the pass from LO. He lost the handle on a dunk and hit the rim in transition. He was held with no call and lost it. He was fouled on a dunk, he made one FT. He up-faked, attacked down the lane and drew FTs, he made one. He took a pass over the fronting defender, missed, battled to get it back and scored. He pulled down an offensive board, then hit Bynum for the dunk. He had 13 points on 5-8 shooting, 4 assists and 5 boards. Second Half: He sank the easy bank shot off the two-man game with Fish. He took the dish from Kobe, ducked under a Wizard who comically collided with another Wizard and Pau jammed in the reverse, then popped the jersey. He spun in the post, drew the double and fed Ariza for a dunk. He missed a crunch-time baseline jumper.

Bynum -- -- Pretty good two-way game by Bynum, even though he wasn't in for the last 5:40. He needs still to move his feet a little more and hustle for the boards better, but he was dominating the interior. With the ease he was scoring, it seemed like he could have gone for 30 if they milked it. He's really starting to mix in more of his post game now along with the usual garbage points created by others. He got excellent position in the middle of the lane several times tonight and that made for some easy hoops. His up and under finesse work had defenders guessing wrong on several occasions. Defensively, he had a few swats in this game and altered several shots. I think our perimeter defenders are relying too much on their help D. They start funneling and inviting the drive before the D behind them is even set. This gave up easy scores to Butler, Young and others. If you can hold your man for a second or two before offering him a lane, you give Bynum and others a chance to get position. The Stats: He scored 19 points on 8-11 shooting (3-5 from the line) to go with 10 boards (3 offensive), 1 assist, 1 steal, 3 blocks, 3 turnovers and 2 fouls in 35 minutes. The Action: He dunked the drive and lob from Kobe. He backed down his man under the hoop and made an easy jumphook. He pulled down a miss, powered up and scored the And-1 layup, he missed the FT. He lost his man badly on an up and under, then was "blocked," he screamed at the ref for the no call. Early low block position, got the pass and scored easily around his man. He boxed out, but didn't move his feet to grab a defensive board. He drew FTs on another up and under, he made both. He missed a short, hanging shot off the glass. He had 10 points on 4-6 shooting in that first-quarter stint. He rejected Blatche's turnaround jumper. He missed a stretching dunk trailing the break and it led to a dunk the other way (no Lakers hanging back on the break). He took the interior feed, pivoted and dunked. He swatted Caron's layup badly to end the half. Second Half: He posted up, pivoted around his man and powered up the layup, screaming after the score (love the emotion). He kicked a pass out of bounds, should have had it. He posted up, drop-stepped and hit the jumper over Jamison and wondered where the whistle was after taking some contact. He drew FTs attacking off the dribble from the FT line, he made one, but got back his miss. He knocked a rebound from behind Jamison and scored the layup. He handed off to Ariza for a reverse. He telegraphed a pass and it was picked off under the hoop. He got shoved with no call on a lob pass (such an obvious foul). He got tied up on a post move.

Radmanovic -- -- Very nice work by the Impaler. Defensively, he challenged shots well. He funneled his men and crowded them when they settled for jumpers. Vlad and DFish ended up leading the team with a +25. Just shows how big a drop off we had from our second unit. Offensively, Vlad was spreading the floor and stroking the threes. The Stats: He scored 14 points on 5-8 shooting (4-7 from three) to go with 2 boards, 1 assist and 1 foul in 22 minutes. The Action: He hit a corner three set up on a drive and kick by Kobe. He missed a corner three in transition. He missed a wing three off the split play. He pulled up in transition, stepped on the three line and hit the jumper jumper. He missed a three. Second Half: He sank the open three on the kickout from Pau. He swished an early offense three from the right sideline. Great close out on a rotation to force a bricked three. Excellent funnel and recovery on Caron to challenge the jumper and force a miss. He sank a corner three on a drive and kick from Kobe.

Fisher -- -- A very controlled game from DFish. He didn't go wild in the lane for crazy layup attempts. He didn't settle for jumpers before running the offense. Solid. Defensively, we were facing much of a challenge from the Wizards PG spot. Phil let Farmar close the game. The Stats: He scored 10 points on 3-4 shooting (2-2 from three, 2-2 from the line) to go with 1 board, 5 assists, 1 steal, 1 turnover and 2 fouls in 22 minutes. The Action: He swished a three on a kickout from Pau. He attacked in transition and pulled up at the FT line for the jumper (he should do this more instead of drive for the contested layups). He curled around the screens, took the pass in the lane and drew FTs, he made both. He clanked a long jumper. Second Half: He set up Pau on the two-man game for the easy bank. He sank a wing three off the drive and kick from Kobe. He picked up a tech arguing a call. He got stripped in the backcourt for a dunk.

Lamar -- -- An aloof effort from Lamar and Phil ended up yanking him for Luke early in the fourth. The two had some "unpleasant" words according to the Laker broadcast crew. He later came back in to close out the fourth. He usually does a lot of that dirty work, but tonight it just seemed like he was looking for a highlight play. Way too loose. The stats are entirely unimpressive, as well. He was a -19. The Stats: He scored 3 points on 1-3 shooting (1-1 from three, 0-2 from the line) to go with 3 boards, 1 assist, 2 turnovers and 4 fouls in 20 minutes. The Action: Good recognition at the top of the arc, spotting Pau open under the hoop and Lamar quickly hit him for the dunk. He missed an elbow fade. He was swatted on a soft layup, led to a layup the other way. Second Half: Sloppy closeout and he gave up three FTs to Stevenson. Sloppy 30-foot underhand lob pass trying to get a highlight to Ariza, turnover. He backed up off the Bynum screen and rattled in a three. He sagged off Songaila and gave up an open jumper (need to crowd him). He attacked with the shotclock low and drew FTs, he missed both with 2:30 left.

Ariza -- -- There seems to be a level of trust that Phil has with Ariza. He has been closing out games at the SF. With the way Phil ran his rotations, Ariza was never once on the floor with both Pau and Bynum tonight. Defensively, he was his usual active self and picked yet another opponent for a breakaway dunk. He's put together some very nice two-man sequences of late. With Bynum on that second unit, they seem like they are starting to develop a little chemistry. The Stats: He scored 9 points on 4-7 shooting (0-2 from three, 1-2 from the line) to go with 3 boards, 2 assists, 3 steals, 1 turnover and 1 foul in 26 minutes. The Action: He was called for a travel, attacking from the wing. He took contact on the break for FTs, he made one FT. Second Half: He missed an open three. He swiped the ball in transition and went behind his back to Kobe for the reverse dunk. He missed an up-and-under floater way short at the end of the third. Quick cut, he took the handoff from Bynum and scored the reverse. His man scored on one end, Ariza got a layup a couple seconds later on the other. Ariza then stripped Butler and took it for a dunk. He was called for a goaltend on a clean swat, poor call. He missed a hurried three to beat the shotclock. He took the interior feed from Pau and threw down with both hands.

Farmar -- -- He was hitting his three ball. That was about it. I didn't mind seeing him close out the game. I think that is good developmentally for him, but defensively, once again he offered little resistance. As I mentioned previously, if he's not getting a steal, he's not giving you much else. He has also got to be the floor general of the second unit. The leadership out there is lacking tremendously and that is on him. The Stats: He scored 11 points on 4-10 shooting (3-4 from three) to go with 1 assist, 1 steal, 2 turnovers and 2 fouls in 26 minutes. The Action: Nice challenge in transition D to force a missed jumper. He choked a layup at the end of the first quarter. He attacked, hung in the lane and was promptly swatted. He hit a wing three off the Sasha kickout. He turned the ball over on a pass, then gave up an And-1 in transition. He picked off a pass and dunked with both hands. He sank a long wing three with the shotclock low. Second Half: He missed a three. Not close on an elbow pull-up jumper. He threw a pass away. He sank the wing three with the shotclock low. He missed a wing jumper.

Vujacic -- -- Not much action from Sasha tonight, but he is at least hustling on D. He couldn't connect on his threes, but took good looks. The Stats: He didn't score on 0-3 shooting to go with 2 boards, 1 assist, 1 block, 2 turnovers and 3 fouls in 13 minutes. The Action: He kicked to Farmar fora three. He swatted Young from behind. He missed a corner three. Second Half: He missed a three in transition. He missed a corner three off the Bynum kickout.

Luke -- -- With 10 minutes left, he came in for Lamar. He was a -5 in his four minutes. The Stats: He didn't score or shoot or board or assist in 4 minutes. The Action: Did not play in first half. Second Half: Nothing to report.

Phil -- -- With an early 13-2 run, the Lakers pulled out to an 18-7 lead... The starters played strong, leading by 17. The bench had a let down to close the first quarter. The Lakers still led 35-24 after the first... Second unit starts the second quarter still going through the motions. Phil let them stink it up for several minutes and the lead was completely blown... Finally, a timeout came. Phil wanted the team to pass to their bigmen instead of trying to dribble to get penetration... With the lead to just three, Phil benched the bench and went back to the starters... The Lakers led 58-53 at the half. The Lakers shot 19-39 (49 percent) to the Wizards 20-44 (46 percent). The Lakers had 8 turnovers, the Wizards 11... The coaches were ticked at the second unit and, again, didn't like the transition D... Back up by 20 points just before the second unit entered the game... The Lakers led 87-72 heading into the fourth... The second unit gave up a 10-0 run to lead just 99-90. Out of the timeout, we got three offensive boards on our set before finally missing our fourth attempt. Four tries, no score... The Wizards cut the score to 103-102 with 40 seconds left. Well done, Lakers... The Lakers were out-rebounded 47-38... Phil irked about a season-long bet between Lamar, Ariza, Kobe and Farmar: "I know these kids have notches on their belt as to how many steals they have because there's three or four of them that are in the competition of who's going to get the most," he said. "It does cost you defensively. Steals are not a mark of a great defensive player."... Phil likes to have about 20 games to get a feel for the team. "Guys have their feet under them, conditioning is there. Now they have to be steady." Let's see what changes he uses to address some of these issues of giving up big leads...

Game Flow -- LINK -- Similar to the Indy game, we had a big run in the third to take a commanding lead. Then, in the fourth we gave up two runs without an answer. The starters were double digits in the positive on the +/- and all the bench in the negative.


Last edited by DancingBarry on Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Vishnu
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 16558

PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:27 pm    Post subject:

1st
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
tsumlakers88
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Posts: 402
Location: Austin

PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:35 pm    Post subject:

I don't remember the last time I was this upset after a win. I am just so irritated with all the mental lapses and complete meltdowns in the past couple 4th quarters. Sure we won this one and are 16-2, but that doesn't mean anything, and at this rate we will get destroyed by Boston. This team has a long way to go, luckily its only December, but they have got to get their acts together, and that includes the coaching staff, these 4th quarter lineups are just oozing with letdown. End of rant.


2nd!!
_________________
"I have self-doubt. I have insecurity. I have fear of failure...everyone does. You don't deny it, but you also don't capitulate to it. You embrace it." -Kobe Bean Bryant
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Dr. Laker
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17134

PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:38 pm    Post subject:

Good job, but

Quote:
Pretty good to-way game by Bynum,


needs two be fixed
_________________
On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns".
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
DancingBarry
Editor-in-Chief
Editor-in-Chief


Joined: 07 Sep 2001
Posts: 40218
Location: O.C.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:44 pm    Post subject:

Dr. Laker wrote:
Good job, but
Quote:
Pretty good to-way game by Bynum,

needs two be fixed


I almost gave away a "W" like our boys...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58398

PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:49 pm    Post subject:

Probably a tough game to breakdown, was hard to watch, can only imagine how tough it would be to make notes of how ugly it got at times.

I still think people are overreacting and that the Lakers are suffering from something all great teams do.

In 2004, right after the Shaq trade and the new team had been together we were playing the powerhouse and championship favorite Spurs. Well on this night at Staples, the Lakers went down by as much as 18 IIRC. Then late in the 4th they made a run, brought it down all the way down to 4 or 5.

You are talking about a 2 time champion at the time, and even to this day the Spurs have trouble keeping big leads.

I know it's hard to watch, but it seems the lack of motivation is only an issue against the weaker teams. It is like the Lakers just can't keep their focus and start to play pick up ball. They get too loose. Now what we have to remember, that confidence, loose laid back nature of the team, especially the 2nd unit is what makes them so great on many nights.

What I want to see is how they come out against a Boston. On Christmas night. Are they going to play their best D? Is their energy and focus there? If they can do it that night, I can live with nights like these. The truth is, a W is a W. Win by 25 or 3, you're still a winner. It's too much to ask these guys to work hard and play their best. Some will get offended by that "They make millions ...". But reality is no team shows up to play 82 times a RS. The teams that win 60-70 games, even they don't show up all the games. Even those wins, some of them come through playing half ass.

I am patiently waiting December 25th. That is the real test for this team. Everything else, for them at least is a bit of the "been there, done that" nature.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
DancingBarry
Editor-in-Chief
Editor-in-Chief


Joined: 07 Sep 2001
Posts: 40218
Location: O.C.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:58 pm    Post subject:

wolf - The coaches are calling the players out...and we're 16-2. It's really a brilliant position to be in.

And, I do think they will give a much more spirited effort against Boston. That's not a question. There is an issue, however, that they showed against Boston in the finals...choking away a big lead. They need to be called out for it because we have already proven we're capable of doing that when it's all on the line.

They've got to purge this from their system. That's why the coaches are on their asses. I think a lot of fans see that, too. (Of course, here on LG...you'll have people who take it too far.) But it burned them badly in the finals once already with this group.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
City_Dawg
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 14 Jul 2006
Posts: 46884
Location: Coming soon and striking at your borders.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:59 pm    Post subject:

Thanks DB, i can finally go to sleep.

PJ and the boys may be burning the midnight oil in trying to hammer out the lumps this team has had so far.


Go Knicks!!!!
_________________
*sighs*

!...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Critical Beatdown
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 7040

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:09 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Probably a tough game to breakdown, was hard to watch, can only imagine how tough it would be to make notes of how ugly it got at times.

I'm glad I didn't have to do it, props to DB. At least Drew is coming around.
_________________
!
Per 100 possessions, we're winning 118-102 with LO on the floor, and losing 109-111 without him. (updated: 4/1/09; source: 82games.com)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58398

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:11 am    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
wolf - The coaches are calling the players out...and we're 16-2. It's really a brilliant position to be in.

And, I do think they will give a much more spirited effort against Boston. That's not a question. There is an issue, however, that they showed against Boston in the finals...choking away a big lead. They need to be called out for it because we have already proven we're capable of doing that when it's all on the line.

They've got to purge this from their system. That's why the coaches are on their asses. I think a lot of fans see that, too. (Of course, here on LG...you'll have people who take it too far.) But it burned them badly in the finals once already with this group.

That's a good point, the Finals game 4 still hurts me.

Ofcourse I would love nothing more than this team to keep getting better and stay motivated. As you say, it's a good position to be in. Your coaching staff and fanbase is calling out your effort when you are 16-2. That's just awesome, considering they haven't really played their best at all this year and still have the best record in the west and elite numbers across the boards.

Definitely want to flush it out of the system (choking leads away) but sometimes I think Phil almost wants it to happen. He made a number of moves that made you think if he really wanted to stop the bleeding. For instance he took out LO and put in Walton. 10-0 run happened during that time. Then he kept out Bynum - the toughest match up of the night for the Wizards to close out the game. He didn't call a TO during most of the runs. You see I think Phil in a way wants these guys to start losing a bit, lose some momentum so they can start being more coachable. He wants them to face adversity like those runs, so they can better prepare themselves for the heat that usually comes in the playoffs.

I definitely want the choking of leads to stop, but I kinda understand the lack of motivation againt the weak teams and don't think this will be an issue againt the elite/top teams. Seems to me most of the guys were fooling around moreso than playing real basketball. I pray they don't have the nerve to try this (bleep) against a Boston or other elite teams. Part of the solution may be for Phil to keep the veterans Kobe and Fish and Pau out there longer in the 2nd halves of games - running from the end of the 3rd Q towards the start of the 4th Q, and not resting them. Bring Farmar and the young'ns later on in the 4th, instead of late 3rd Q. Now that is only under the assumption that a) The Lakers have a big lead and b) the 2nd unit showed in the 1st half they are not interested in keeping a lead. Both were the cases in this game. I think Kobe playing only 34 mpg is also a big part of the Lakers blowing leads. Chances when he and Pau and Fish play more minutes in the 4th, we will blow far less leads.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
D-Dogg
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 18 Feb 2003
Posts: 3448
Location: Phoenix

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:52 am    Post subject:

PLAY SOME EFFING DEFENSE!!!!!

Please?
_________________
17 on the horizon.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
Addicus
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 9642
Location: Dave's Pimp Palace

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:53 am    Post subject:

Great job DB.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Dre
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 04 Dec 2008
Posts: 230

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 2:23 am    Post subject: DEFENSE?

Yeah that defense has been falling off lately
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Nobody
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 13 Sep 2008
Posts: 5743
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:53 am    Post subject:

Defense was good in the 1st and 3rd quarter (gave up 24 points on 37% shooting and 19 points on XY shooting). The bench was just horrible both offensively and defensively tonight. I can't believe how many times they've let substantial leads slip during this roadtrip... I just hope this are truly growing pains and they start playing like they did not so long ago again.

Nice write up and thanks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
maddprophet
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 1952
Location: Hotlanta

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:28 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
DancingBarry wrote:
wolf - The coaches are calling the players out...and we're 16-2. It's really a brilliant position to be in.

And, I do think they will give a much more spirited effort against Boston. That's not a question. There is an issue, however, that they showed against Boston in the finals...choking away a big lead. They need to be called out for it because we have already proven we're capable of doing that when it's all on the line.

They've got to purge this from their system. That's why the coaches are on their asses. I think a lot of fans see that, too. (Of course, here on LG...you'll have people who take it too far.) But it burned them badly in the finals once already with this group.

That's a good point, the Finals game 4 still hurts me.

Ofcourse I would love nothing more than this team to keep getting better and stay motivated. As you say, it's a good position to be in. Your coaching staff and fanbase is calling out your effort when you are 16-2. That's just awesome, considering they haven't really played their best at all this year and still have the best record in the west and elite numbers across the boards.

Definitely want to flush it out of the system (choking leads away) but sometimes I think Phil almost wants it to happen. He made a number of moves that made you think if he really wanted to stop the bleeding. For instance he took out LO and put in Walton. 10-0 run happened during that time. Then he kept out Bynum - the toughest match up of the night for the Wizards to close out the game. He didn't call a TO during most of the runs. You see I think Phil in a way wants these guys to start losing a bit, lose some momentum so they can start being more coachable. He wants them to face adversity like those runs, so they can better prepare themselves for the heat that usually comes in the playoffs.

I definitely want the choking of leads to stop, but I kinda understand the lack of motivation againt the weak teams and don't think this will be an issue againt the elite/top teams. Seems to me most of the guys were fooling around moreso than playing real basketball. I pray they don't have the nerve to try this (bleep) against a Boston or other elite teams. Part of the solution may be for Phil to keep the veterans Kobe and Fish and Pau out there longer in the 2nd halves of games - running from the end of the 3rd Q towards the start of the 4th Q, and not resting them. Bring Farmar and the young'ns later on in the 4th, instead of late 3rd Q. Now that is only under the assumption that a) The Lakers have a big lead and b) the 2nd unit showed in the 1st half they are not interested in keeping a lead. Both were the cases in this game. I think Kobe playing only 34 mpg is also a big part of the Lakers blowing leads. Chances when he and Pau and Fish play more minutes in the 4th, we will blow far less leads.



well said. phil knows what this team needs to experience to get where he wants them to be. it's a long season, and they need to be as battle tested as possible.

going through and overcoming adversity will build charachter for these guys. it's painful to watch at times no doubt. but i trust in phil that the ends will justify the means.

that being said, i need to see bynum closing out games, i need to.....
_________________
Spark the ism, my expertism, is lyracism, my flow will take you over like I was hypnotism...so where's the lighter, to start the cypher....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
limchrc
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 11477

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 6:14 am    Post subject:

Glad we still won the game. Hope we keep learning and growing from this game type of game experiences.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
waterman40
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Posts: 6292
Location: Central Coast

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 6:48 am    Post subject:

Lets hope the long plane ride home convinces them to play harder against the Bucks. 2-1 on the road trip is nothing to sneeze at, but we should have had a 3-0 trip with 3 blowouts, instead we are lucky we didn't go 1-2. But we all need to move on, and hope the players are getting the message too.
_________________
LAKERS 2019-2020: NBA World Champions!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
golakersgo121
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 11717
Location: 8 miles from Staples Center

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:16 am    Post subject:

maddprophet wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
DancingBarry wrote:
wolf - The coaches are calling the players out...and we're 16-2. It's really a brilliant position to be in.

And, I do think they will give a much more spirited effort against Boston. That's not a question. There is an issue, however, that they showed against Boston in the finals...choking away a big lead. They need to be called out for it because we have already proven we're capable of doing that when it's all on the line.

They've got to purge this from their system. That's why the coaches are on their asses. I think a lot of fans see that, too. (Of course, here on LG...you'll have people who take it too far.) But it burned them badly in the finals once already with this group.

That's a good point, the Finals game 4 still hurts me.

Ofcourse I would love nothing more than this team to keep getting better and stay motivated. As you say, it's a good position to be in. Your coaching staff and fanbase is calling out your effort when you are 16-2. That's just awesome, considering they haven't really played their best at all this year and still have the best record in the west and elite numbers across the boards.

Definitely want to flush it out of the system (choking leads away) but sometimes I think Phil almost wants it to happen. He made a number of moves that made you think if he really wanted to stop the bleeding. For instance he took out LO and put in Walton. 10-0 run happened during that time. Then he kept out Bynum - the toughest match up of the night for the Wizards to close out the game. He didn't call a TO during most of the runs. You see I think Phil in a way wants these guys to start losing a bit, lose some momentum so they can start being more coachable. He wants them to face adversity like those runs, so they can better prepare themselves for the heat that usually comes in the playoffs.

I definitely want the choking of leads to stop, but I kinda understand the lack of motivation againt the weak teams and don't think this will be an issue againt the elite/top teams. Seems to me most of the guys were fooling around moreso than playing real basketball. I pray they don't have the nerve to try this (bleep) against a Boston or other elite teams. Part of the solution may be for Phil to keep the veterans Kobe and Fish and Pau out there longer in the 2nd halves of games - running from the end of the 3rd Q towards the start of the 4th Q, and not resting them. Bring Farmar and the young'ns later on in the 4th, instead of late 3rd Q. Now that is only under the assumption that a) The Lakers have a big lead and b) the 2nd unit showed in the 1st half they are not interested in keeping a lead. Both were the cases in this game. I think Kobe playing only 34 mpg is also a big part of the Lakers blowing leads. Chances when he and Pau and Fish play more minutes in the 4th, we will blow far less leads.



well said. phil knows what this team needs to experience to get where he wants them to be. it's a long season, and they need to be as battle tested as possible.

going through and overcoming adversity will build charachter for these guys. it's painful to watch at times no doubt. but i trust in phil that the ends will justify the means.

that being said, i need to see bynum closing out games, i need to.....


+1 compliment for Wolf's post. And I was thinking exactly the same thing Phil has stated on his post-game: our 2nd unit (and, perhaps, anybody's 2nd unit in the NBA) on the road simply CAN'T hold leads on the road. Not because they are young exclusively (that too) but also simply because "the other guys" have pride and simply can't lose without a fight in front of their home crowd.

Plus - when you're ahead by a lot, relaxing also leads to not doing "dirty work" at all due to fatigue as well as concern for possible injury (less penetration, no boxing out, no extra effort, etc.).

Games on the road in the NBA will be dog fights. Should be dog fights. Blowout are an exception, not the rule.

Needless to say, I was as mad as almost everybody else during the closing minutes
_________________
Major bullets dodged: DH12 - twice, LMA, Melo - twice, PG-13, DeMar DeRozan. Hit jackpot with DH-12 at the right time
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Sage_10
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 6668

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:36 am    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
wolf - The coaches are calling the players out...and we're 16-2. It's really a brilliant position to be in.

And, I do think they will give a much more spirited effort against Boston. That's not a question. There is an issue, however, that they showed against Boston in the finals...choking away a big lead. They need to be called out for it because we have already proven we're capable of doing that when it's all on the line.

They've got to purge this from their system. That's why the coaches are on their asses. I think a lot of fans see that, too. (Of course, here on LG...you'll have people who take it too far.) But it burned them badly in the finals once already with this group.


Beautifully stated.
_________________
"You Must Be Willing To Give Up That Which Can Be Lost In Order To Gain That Which Cannot Be Lost." - FORTUNE COOKIE
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Rigged4fun
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 756
Location: Northridge, CA

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 8:03 am    Post subject:

Thanks for the runthrough DB always well done. I see a team in disarray here. The Lakers early success has gone to their heads. If you notice Andrew is crying on every contested shot. His defense has slacked off, and his defensive rebounding is non existent. He doesn't try to get position on rebounds relying on his height. Farmar seems to be totally inconsistant, one minute he's focused and the next he throws some stupid pass cross court or dribble into a shotblockers wheelhouse. Kobe's defense has been non-existant. Finally Lamar has no purpose, no energy, no incentive to do anything but stand outside and dish.

From a coaching standpoint, this new half zone half trap defense doesn't work for the Lakers. They are not quick enough to scramble to close on backside shooters. The offside cutter is open everytime especially when they dive the lane. Bynum and Odom are very slow to roll into the lane to cover the cutter. Maybe Phil was right, go back to a straight man to man and let the two big guys clean up the middle. There are too many open shots as evidenced in the last 3 games.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger Reply with quote
antdude
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 29 Nov 2007
Posts: 174
Location: An Ant Farm

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 8:03 am    Post subject: Sheesh.

Lakers almost did the same thing with Pacers, but won barely. I didn't watch the game, but saw the scoreboard. Lakers need to stop doing this!!!

Last edited by antdude on Sat Dec 06, 2008 8:10 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
puertorock33
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Posts: 233

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 8:05 am    Post subject:

Good stuff as always. You should have a (0_0) in the title instead of a smiley face for games like these....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
king255
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 21 Jul 2008
Posts: 1574

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 8:07 am    Post subject:

Was Farmar's D really that bad? I was tracking Farmar's D when Pau checked back into the game(to see whether Fisher was the problem in the Indiana game.) At the time, his man, Antonio Daniels had 10, 4 and 3, at the end of the day, it was still 10, 4 and 3. Now it was Antonio Daniels, so it doesn't mean much(it's like Kobe "shutting down" guys like Marquis Daniels), but then who was responsible for his 10, 4 and 3 line in the first place?

The difference this time, surprisingly, was that Pau and Ariza were the guys who kept getting beat.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Addicus
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 9642
Location: Dave's Pimp Palace

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 9:34 am    Post subject:

I woke up this morning and realized the 2nd unit has to stop thinking you put away teams with offensive explosions. You put away teams with defensive intensity that leads to easy buckets.
_________________
Stop crying and start doing.

Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/addicusbrown
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Klone_dd
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 11 Mar 2002
Posts: 7330

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 9:44 am    Post subject:

LO was surprisingly ineffective in this 3 game roadie. It's like he slipped back into relax mode. Like DB's analysis with JoFar, if LO isn't giving you the boards, he's not giving you much.

Bynum was ok, but I prefer Pau in the post more. Pau tends to get others more involved (6 assists) while Bynum looks for more shooting opps (1 assist). Playing Pau in the 4th with the 2nd unit will tire him out when he''ll be needed to help close out the game.

In crunch time, either Kobe strays away from the offense or the other guys just stand around and allow it to happen. Same thing happened in the other close games (@Dallas, @ NO). Kobe wants to play to his strengths, but the team's strength is to play as a unit.

Defensively, the Lakers strong side zone was a new facet at the start of the season. It surprised some teams, but as the season goes on, the teams will figure out how to attack it. With the Lakers giving up 100+ lately, it's happened sooner rather than later. Skip passes lead to wide open 3s, a quick pass in the middle gets points in the paint. If the Lakers double with one of the bigs, it leaves the smalls guarding a big weakside or leaves the team prone to offensive boards. Rambis better start thinking of a countermove.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> Thoughts and Ratings All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2
Jump to:  

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum






Graphics by uberzev
© 1995-2018 LakersGround.net. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy. Terms of Use.
LakersGround is an unofficial news source serving the fan community since 1995.
We are in no way associated with the Los Angeles Lakers or the National Basketball Association.


Powered by phpBB