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PopcornMachine
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Joined: 19 Apr 2001
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 Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 11:27 am Post subject: Re: NUGGETS -at- LAKERS - 5/21 - Thoughts and :-(( Ratings |
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| DancingBarry wrote: |
Bynum --  -- Not rebounding, not imposing himself defensively. Very slow-footed out of the gates in the second half. Drew got benched by Phil after a few minutes of that half and never returned. Should he have been benched? Not the whole half. Should he have had someone in his face, getting on him for the lack of defensive intensity? You bet. He let his team down, gave Phil an excuse to shelve him and the Lakers paid the price. Just 2 rebounds for Drew. You have to impose your size on both ends, Bynum. Both ends. We lost our size advantage because of this. Rewind the game tape of the first few minutes of the second half and look at your effort. That won't get it done at all. You gave Phil an excuse to bench you and he ran with it. Don't give him an excuse. |
Give Phil an excuse? I think you know and it has been discussed before that there may be something behind the scenes is going on there.
I wish Andrew would rise above it, and there is certainly plenty of blame to go in his direction. But Phil knows how they've beat this team before ... with their size advantage.
If it's all Andrew being a headcase, then I would be very surprised.
If it's Phil playing mind games with him in the middle of the playoffs, I would be almost equally surprised. But it is worth noting that Phil's success has always come with keeping a prima donna superstar happy.
Perhaps the truth lies somewhere in between. Either way, I'm very disappointed and don't look forward to the rest of the playoffs.
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| AJLakerFan wrote: | | DB, I have to disagree with you on your assessment of Drew in the 3rd quarter. I rewatched that 3rd quarter and the only thing that he did wrong on D was overran Nene when he tried to rotate back to that side when he shaded to the point guard. The play before that Billups drove, Drew was there but Billups used an up and under move in the air to score the bucket. On offense they were working the ball to Pau more to begin but he was being active. The only play that he was really late was the play that Nene scored on. I have to say that it was a BS benching. |
I agree... even if Bynum struggled, his D was no worse than anyone else's. It would be yet another example of Phil giving the guys he trusts slack, but not Bynum despite the fact we need him if we're going to consistently win.
IMO, Bynum's benching was more about Phil allowing Karl to dictate the matchups with Klieza out there. He didn't want to go Bynum/Gasol with a Anderson/Klieza frontline. This was the same problem in the Houston series. Phil is running scared and consistently weighs offense over defense. He's become one of those coaches stuck in his ways and unwilling to think outside the box. Even his "imaginative" coaching moves have become predictable.
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DzLaker
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Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 1598
Location: Sacramento, CA
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| Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: NUGGETS -at- LAKERS - 5/21 - Thoughts and :-(( Ratings |
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| Quote: | | You have to play your best players. |
| Quote: | | Poor management of Kobe's minutes by Phil |
| Quote: | | You have to impose your size on both ends, Bynum. |
| Quote: | | Can't say the same for Sasha. |
| Quote: | | We're getting nothing from Sasha, why keep going to him? Horrible minutes....Denver thanks him. |
| Quote: | | What is this? Only one impact player on the floor. |
Hey DB, you're writing with an edge. I guess an unjustified playoff loss will do that huh?
Good breakdowns...Even if someone didn't watch the game, you're describing perfectly why we lost. |
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tw-lakbfan
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Joined: 29 Jun 2001
Posts: 16636
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| Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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| I simply can't understand why the Lakers wouldn't play to their strength: height advantage. |
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Mr. EiGhTy-OnE
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Joined: 03 Nov 2004
Posts: 8272
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 1:59 pm Post subject: Re: NUGGETS -at- LAKERS - 5/21 - Thoughts and :-(( Ratings |
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| DancingBarry wrote: |
(Nice question by emplay.) |
his followup question should have been. "Mr. Jackson, are you tired of being outcoached?" (i know he could never ask that w/o john black yanking his credentials but it would be entertaining and EP would be Simers hero) 
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DancingBarry
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| Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | | AJLakerFan wrote: | | DB, I have to disagree with you on your assessment of Drew in the 3rd quarter. I rewatched that 3rd quarter and the only thing that he did wrong on D was overran Nene when he tried to rotate back to that side when he shaded to the point guard. The play before that Billups drove, Drew was there but Billups used an up and under move in the air to score the bucket. On offense they were working the ball to Pau more to begin but he was being active. The only play that he was really late was the play that Nene scored on. I have to say that it was a BS benching. |
I agree... even if Bynum struggled, his D was no worse than anyone else's. It would be yet another example of Phil giving the guys he trusts slack, but not Bynum despite the fact we need him if we're going to consistently win.
IMO, Bynum's benching was more about Phil allowing Karl to dictate the matchups with Klieza out there. He didn't want to go Bynum/Gasol with a Anderson/Klieza frontline. This was the same problem in the Houston series. Phil is running scared and consistently weighs offense over defense. He's become one of those coaches stuck in his ways and unwilling to think outside the box. Even his "imaginative" coaching moves have become predictable. |
AJ - I'll rewatch it. Still, I was pretty focused on Bynum during that stretch live because we started off the game using him. Play after play he seemed very flatfooted...and in my opinion deserved to be subbed out (not benched, of course, as I stated).
LS - There may be some truth to that in some regards and this is where I think that "coaching scared" phrase comes in. He's being reactive, not proactive. We're trying to match up a lot of times vs. having other teams try to match up with us. Again, seems like a lack of trust or faith, too, in Bynum. However, with Bynum not playing at all after that sub out leads me to believe Phil benched him for effort, didn't communicate what he wanted and left him there not wanting to use him again. Poor decision, poor teaching, poor coaching. |
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DancingBarry
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| Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 2:50 pm Post subject: Re: NUGGETS -at- LAKERS - 5/21 - Thoughts and :-(( Ratings |
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| DzLaker wrote: |
Hey DB, you're writing with an edge. I guess an unjustified playoff loss will do that huh?
Good breakdowns...Even if someone didn't watch the game, you're describing perfectly why we lost. |
Just channeling the frustration of Laker fans  and trying to give a straight-up assessment. |
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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I don't get the Phil doesn't "trust" Bynum stuff. At this point, I trust Bynum more than most of our players. At least Bynum seems to try to execute the game plan (i.e. go inside and funnel defensively to our anchors) - can't say the same thing for Kobe or Fisher. Just look at results - we're better as a team when Bynum is on the floor, regardless of the mistakes he makes.
Given that Phil seems to be ignoring the results, it leaves me with the belief that all of this is about him trying to psychologically influence his players (i.e. teach them/prepare them). However, the very fact that Phil is trying to teach his players lessons at this point is ridiculous. You put your best combination of players on the floor at all times. If you don't like a players attitude, mentality, or confidence, that should have been addressed in the regular season and, if it still needs to be addressed, obviously its too late and is something to be dealt with in the offseason. You deal with what you have because trying to change what you have into something else, at this point, can get you booted out of the playoffs.
The playoffs are winning time - you do whatever you can to get a W and deal with the consequences later. Even if one agrees with Phil's "teaching style", Phil's belief that we'll need a confident Fisher in the long run and Phil's belief that these "lessons" will make Bynum a better player for the rest of the playoffs STILL did nothing to help us get a W in game 1 v. Houston, in game 4 v. Houston, in game 6 v. Houston, or game 2 v. Denver. In fact, this approach by Phil has made even our wins that much harder to come by.
....and yes, I can only assume that Phil makes these decisions with the intent of psychologically preparing his players as it couldn't be because keeping Fisher on the floor and keeping Bynum off it actually has had any immediate positive results in those games. Either that or Phil and the rest of us are watching completely different players and box scores.
| Quote: | Phil Jackson’s explanation for not playing Andrew Bynum more in the second half of the Game 2 loss was that Denver started a small lineup for the fourth quarter.
“That put a little different twist on what we wanted to do,” Jackson said, implying his concern about Bynum’s ability to match Chris Andersen’s energy level at center. |
That's right Phil, make sure that other coaches dictate what players you play. No Carter? No Farmar/Brown, more Fisher. No Martin? No Bynum, more Luke.
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TooMuchMajicBuss
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| Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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Very tough game, thanks for the recap DB. It made me feel better just to read your observations and virtually all of these replies.
This is no time to be figuring out rotations, nor is it the time to be benching Bynum for the last half of the game. This is also no time to turn a blind eye to the non-impact players while they blow play after play. I do think PJ was a great coach until recently, now I just hope he has enough moments of clarity and we have the talent to overcome. This team should be crushingly dominant. I would think a lot of top-tier coaches would jump at a team this loaded. |
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City_Dawg
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| Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: |
That's right Phil, make sure that other coaches dictate what players you play. No Carter? No Farmar/Brown, more Fisher. No Martin? No Bynum, more Luke. |
So I guess the whole "In Phil I trust" mantra was thrown out?
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Gallofa
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 7:15 am Post subject: |
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Tough loss. Thanks for the recap!
Let's hope for a strong start tonite. Pau needs to take more risks. He needs to impose himself. Be more aggressive. |
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KingKobe20
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wildcat
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| ThePageDude wrote: | My 2 cents.
A lot of fans are going crazy over tactical happenstances (missed calls etc.) The big trends, that some posters here have alluded to, IMO are:
- Melo is killing us on the offensive glass. People are blaming Pao/Drew/Odom for this but this is simplistic, they're busy holding off Nene/KMart/Birdman who are all ferocious rebounders; Melo is just too strong for Ariza/Kobe.
- Denver has superb mid/long-distance shooters setup by an awesome Billups. The Lakers designated shooters (Fisher/Vujacic) are AWOL. This allows Denver to narrow down LA's choices (pack in the paint, overplay Kobe, deny Gasol). Comparatively, Denver actually has more options available on offense. The only reason our offense looks as good as it does is because of Kobe's brilliance - otherwise we'd be dead meat.
- The Laker interior is charmin-soft pretty much like last year. Yeah Gasol is slightly better, but the success of this team was really predicated on Bynum clogging up the paint. He isn't doing it and people can debate ad-infinitum about whether thats him or PJ.
Our 2 advantages (Kobe's brilliance, Gasol's all-star skills) are being more than overcome by the 3 big disadvantages: softness, shooting, melo. In order to win, we need to overcome at least 2, and/or find something else to exploit. |
Fantastic take. I completely agree with your points. IF I were the Lakers coaches I would make the following adjustments:
1) Put Odom on Melo when the Nuggets go small. That way Ariza-Kleiza, Vujacic-Smith, Bryant-Billups, and Gasol-Anderson are all defensive matchups that work in our favor. Sag off of Melo and make him take contested 2-point jumpers. Eliminate Melo's 2nd chance points and points in the paint.
2) We have to give our guys touches from the perimeter but it must be as a result of penetration. We're bigger than they are and if we get the ball inside their defense will collapse, giving more room for our shooters. Because our shooters have been unreliable we must close our on their shooters and make them take tough, contested 2-point jumpers.
3) When Bynum picks up his 2nd foul sit him for the first half and play Mbenga. Tell him to knock anyone who comes into the lane onto his ass. By doing so we can unleash Bynum in the 2nd half by giving him 4 fouls to work with. Tell him we WANT him to foul out. Phil wants Odom and Gasol to finish out the game, but it should be because Bynum did his job and made his presence felt inside. Force them to shoot from the outside. Also we need to do a better job of banging their cutters and making life difficult inside the paint.
If we make these adjustments I am confident we can steal a win on their home floor. |
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LakersForTheWin
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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Lets have a good match.
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CHRISTYLE70
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Do you see the difference between Staples Center and Pepsi center? Theres no home advantage |
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LakersForTheWin
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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DEREKKKKKKKK OMG
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LakersBooster
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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ARIZA!!!
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LakersBooster
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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Kobe missed a good look...
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LakersBooster
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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so far, Fisher playing well.
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"men should be tough, fair, and courageous, never petty, never looking for a fight, but never backing down from one either." |
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LakersBooster
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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and missed both...
BS call on Bynum...
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MyKRo
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| I expected Denver to be louder than this! This crowd isn't all that impressive. |
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RMurphy_22
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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Any links? please
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MyKRo
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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wrong thread
Last edited by MyKRo on Sat May 23, 2009 4:45 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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MyKRo
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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edit wrong thread.
Last edited by MyKRo on Sat May 23, 2009 4:45 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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MyKRo
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| edit wrong thread |
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