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Sister Golden Hair
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Joined: 01 May 2001
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 Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting. And here I thought Kobe had passed the last hurdle in order to "prove" himself to the various opponents, fans, critics, etc. Apparently, there's one last hurdle: now he has to give even more of himself -- this time directly from his own pockets -- to prove that he's a good guy, team player, committed to winning, yadda yadda yadda.
Kobe gives his all year in, year out. Game in, game out. Can the same thing be said of LO? Has his game improved each and every off-season? To be frank, I would argue that LO has made a hell of a lot more in his most recent contract than his production merited. There were simply too many nights where he disappeared as I, strictly as a fan, felt cheated. I wonder how old Doc Buss felt? Or Kobe?
LO's misfortune at present is that he's a FA in a down market. Why that has anything to do with Kobe is beyond me.
I expect Ariza to get paid because of the alarmingly fast improvement he's shown from one season to the next. He's shown the requisite hunger to better himself, the requisite abilities to help the team win, and the requisite killer instinct to impose his will even in the biggest games. I don't think the organization expects or requires any to take a pay cut in order to pay Ariza.
Lo was great down the stretch. Too ofetn, however, he has not been great as a laker. It is ridiculous to expect Kobe to give up what he deserves to a player that has not always deserved what he's gotten.
Buss should pay both Ariza dn LO what they deserve, but I don't see why that needs to come out of Kobe's pocket. Now, if he chooses to do so, that's another matter altogether.
But I certainly would not think any less of Kobe by going after what the market will shell out for his services.
To place yet another unmerited burden on him is crazy after the way he's come through time and time again.
SGH |
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tiniyo
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Why don't Ariza and Odom take a pay cut? |
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mhan00
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 32076
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:48 pm Post subject: Re: Kobe should take a pay cut |
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| Sage_10 wrote: | | ecchen1 wrote: | | If we're going to ask Odom to take a pay cut and Ariza to not ask for too much money, Kobe should take a pay cut as well to lock in the other two guys (not to mention Shannon Brown). He's got more money than both of those guys... |
Agreed, Kobe has obtained his payday many times over already. |
and i suppose dr. buss has been struggling along all this time, right? please. kobe may have gotten his payday many times over, but just the equity that dr. buss has built with the lakers dwarfs that many times over. that's not even considering the tens of millions that dr. buss makes every year as well. |
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ArminNBA
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Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 2200
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| FOXeatsFISH wrote: | Curious question. Would any of you take a paycut to keep your coworkers employed? I read how some policemen were asked to take a paycut or have 9 of their fellow officers laid off. They chose not to take the paycut. Sorry if this ruins the mood of the thread.  |
They aren't making millions upon millions of dollars. |
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safari_in_cali
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Joined: 06 Oct 2002
Posts: 1029
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you, Larry, for the article. It explains a lot of things I was wondering about. I have a couple comments.
You say,
| Quote: | | One line of thinking might be to wait until 2010 to become a free agent, so his new contract will stretch into the next Collective Bargaining Agreement as far as possible under terms of the current agreement. |
And later,
| Quote: | | If he opts out this summer, he'd sign a five year deal. If he opts out next summer, he'd sign a four year deal. In both cases, he'd become a free agent again in 2014. |
The second quote makes the original point moot, since no matter whether Kobe opts out this year or next year, he will still become a free agent in 2014.
Also, why do you think that he will opt out next year and not this year, given that the totals he would earn through 2013-14 with Option 1 and Option 2 are pretty much identical? Opting out this year makes more sense to me because it provides insurance in case he suffers a career ending injury next year. Of course this assumes that he wants to stay with the Lakers and that Buss pays him the maximum. Opting out next year would make more sense if he were to entertain offers from other teams with cap space, or he is simply waiting to see how the Lakers team shapes up next year and whether Odom and Ariza get locked into long term contracts before he makes his decision.
Last edited by safari_in_cali on Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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golakersgo121
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Joined: 21 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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Larry - great article.
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Major bullets dodged: DH12 - twice, LMA, Melo - twice, PG-13, DeMar DeRozan. Hit jackpot with DH-12 at the right time |
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Username
Star Player
Joined: 22 Apr 2004
Posts: 4719
Location: Out There
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| Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:26 am Post subject: |
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| Sister Golden Hair wrote: | Interesting. And here I thought Kobe had passed the last hurdle in order to "prove" himself to the various opponents, fans, critics, etc. Apparently, there's one last hurdle: now he has to give even more of himself -- this time directly from his own pockets -- to prove that he's a good guy, team player, committed to winning, yadda yadda yadda.
Kobe gives his all year in, year out. Game in, game out. Can the same thing be said of LO? Has his game improved each and every off-season? To be frank, I would argue that LO has made a hell of a lot more in his most recent contract than his production merited. There were simply too many nights where he disappeared as I, strictly as a fan, felt cheated. I wonder how old Doc Buss felt? Or Kobe?
LO's misfortune at present is that he's a FA in a down market. Why that has anything to do with Kobe is beyond me.
I expect Ariza to get paid because of the alarmingly fast improvement he's shown from one season to the next. He's shown the requisite hunger to better himself, the requisite abilities to help the team win, and the requisite killer instinct to impose his will even in the biggest games. I don't think the organization expects or requires any to take a pay cut in order to pay Ariza.
Lo was great down the stretch. Too ofetn, however, he has not been great as a laker. It is ridiculous to expect Kobe to give up what he deserves to a player that has not always deserved what he's gotten.
Buss should pay both Ariza dn LO what they deserve, but I don't see why that needs to come out of Kobe's pocket. Now, if he chooses to do so, that's another matter altogether.
But I certainly would not think any less of Kobe by going after what the market will shell out for his services.
To place yet another unmerited burden on him is crazy after the way he's come through time and time again.
SGH |
Kobe whined and demanded a trade when he didn't have a team around him that he liked. Two years later, he has that team, they've won a championship and now what if the only way to keep that team together is for Kobe to take less money.
He doesn't have to and I certainly wouldn't blame him for not doing it, but we better not hear anymore complaining out of him if he doesn't. I'd hate to think one of the key pieces of what could have been a championship contender for the next 5 years goes elsewhere so Kobe can have a few extra millions. |
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JUST-MING
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| Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:34 am Post subject: |
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| Bookmarked. |
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Scherm
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Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 4158
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| Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 9:16 am Post subject: |
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I wonder if having Kobe Bryant on the Lakers brought in any revenue to the Lakers organization.
Probably not much. Okay, maybe he helped attendance a little.
And maybe he helped with the TV ratings some.
And playoff revenue.
And concessions.
But other than that, he's not really pulling his weight. That's why he should fund Ariza and Odom.
Besides, Bill Simmons says that when the Lakers were celebrating their championship they were just faking that they were happy with how Kobe led them. |
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RCS926
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Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 16824
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| Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| Username wrote: | | Sister Golden Hair wrote: | Interesting. And here I thought Kobe had passed the last hurdle in order to "prove" himself to the various opponents, fans, critics, etc. Apparently, there's one last hurdle: now he has to give even more of himself -- this time directly from his own pockets -- to prove that he's a good guy, team player, committed to winning, yadda yadda yadda.
Kobe gives his all year in, year out. Game in, game out. Can the same thing be said of LO? Has his game improved each and every off-season? To be frank, I would argue that LO has made a hell of a lot more in his most recent contract than his production merited. There were simply too many nights where he disappeared as I, strictly as a fan, felt cheated. I wonder how old Doc Buss felt? Or Kobe?
LO's misfortune at present is that he's a FA in a down market. Why that has anything to do with Kobe is beyond me.
I expect Ariza to get paid because of the alarmingly fast improvement he's shown from one season to the next. He's shown the requisite hunger to better himself, the requisite abilities to help the team win, and the requisite killer instinct to impose his will even in the biggest games. I don't think the organization expects or requires any to take a pay cut in order to pay Ariza.
Lo was great down the stretch. Too ofetn, however, he has not been great as a laker. It is ridiculous to expect Kobe to give up what he deserves to a player that has not always deserved what he's gotten.
Buss should pay both Ariza dn LO what they deserve, but I don't see why that needs to come out of Kobe's pocket. Now, if he chooses to do so, that's another matter altogether.
But I certainly would not think any less of Kobe by going after what the market will shell out for his services.
To place yet another unmerited burden on him is crazy after the way he's come through time and time again.
SGH |
Kobe whined and demanded a trade when he didn't have a team around him that he liked. Two years later, he has that team, they've won a championship and now what if the only way to keep that team together is for Kobe to take less money.
He doesn't have to and I certainly wouldn't blame him for not doing it, but we better not hear anymore complaining out of him if he doesn't. I'd hate to think one of the key pieces of what could have been a championship contender for the next 5 years goes elsewhere so Kobe can have a few extra millions. |
I doubt you'll hear any complaints from Kobe. Between himself, Pau, Drew and either Ariza or LO, that's enough to be in contention for the next 5 years. His complaint 2 years ago was that the team didn't have anywhere near enough talent to get homecourt in the 1st round much less compete for a title. Obviously, bringing back both LO and Trevor gives us a better chance of winning it all for the next few years, but if even only one of them comes back, we'll still be in good shape. |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| Thanks for the article, LC. You have a real talent for translating arcane material into plain English. |
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82410
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Joined: 01 Oct 2007
Posts: 3182
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| Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| Username wrote: | | Sister Golden Hair wrote: | Interesting. And here I thought Kobe had passed the last hurdle in order to "prove" himself to the various opponents, fans, critics, etc. Apparently, there's one last hurdle: now he has to give even more of himself -- this time directly from his own pockets -- to prove that he's a good guy, team player, committed to winning, yadda yadda yadda.
Kobe gives his all year in, year out. Game in, game out. Can the same thing be said of LO? Has his game improved each and every off-season? To be frank, I would argue that LO has made a hell of a lot more in his most recent contract than his production merited. There were simply too many nights where he disappeared as I, strictly as a fan, felt cheated. I wonder how old Doc Buss felt? Or Kobe?
LO's misfortune at present is that he's a FA in a down market. Why that has anything to do with Kobe is beyond me.
I expect Ariza to get paid because of the alarmingly fast improvement he's shown from one season to the next. He's shown the requisite hunger to better himself, the requisite abilities to help the team win, and the requisite killer instinct to impose his will even in the biggest games. I don't think the organization expects or requires any to take a pay cut in order to pay Ariza.
Lo was great down the stretch. Too ofetn, however, he has not been great as a laker. It is ridiculous to expect Kobe to give up what he deserves to a player that has not always deserved what he's gotten.
Buss should pay both Ariza dn LO what they deserve, but I don't see why that needs to come out of Kobe's pocket. Now, if he chooses to do so, that's another matter altogether.
But I certainly would not think any less of Kobe by going after what the market will shell out for his services.
To place yet another unmerited burden on him is crazy after the way he's come through time and time again.
SGH |
Kobe whined and demanded a trade when he didn't have a team around him that he liked. Two years later, he has that team, they've won a championship and now what if the only way to keep that team together is for Kobe to take less money.
He doesn't have to and I certainly wouldn't blame him for not doing it, but we better not hear anymore complaining out of him if he doesn't. I'd hate to think one of the key pieces of what could have been a championship contender for the next 5 years goes elsewhere so Kobe can have a few extra millions. |
This is just moronic thinking, I'm sorry. Kobe said to the owner, get better players or I'm going to a team that will. That had nothing to do with money or anything else. Kobe wants to win, but he's not the GD owner for (bleep) sakes. If the Lakers don't want to pay LO or Ariza or Kobe, fine, someone else will. For (bleep) sakes now Kobe has to take ownership responsibility without having any ownership? I really thought some LA fans couldn't get any dumber. 
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The heroes of the past are untouchable, protected forever by the fortress door of time-unless some mysterious stranger magically turns up with a key. |
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GoldenThroat
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Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 37474
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| Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:24 am Post subject: |
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That is one sessy headshot, Larry.
Anderson Cooper + 70's porn star = Larry Coon  |
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Username
Star Player
Joined: 22 Apr 2004
Posts: 4719
Location: Out There
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| Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| 82410 wrote: | | Username wrote: | | Sister Golden Hair wrote: | Interesting. And here I thought Kobe had passed the last hurdle in order to "prove" himself to the various opponents, fans, critics, etc. Apparently, there's one last hurdle: now he has to give even more of himself -- this time directly from his own pockets -- to prove that he's a good guy, team player, committed to winning, yadda yadda yadda.
Kobe gives his all year in, year out. Game in, game out. Can the same thing be said of LO? Has his game improved each and every off-season? To be frank, I would argue that LO has made a hell of a lot more in his most recent contract than his production merited. There were simply too many nights where he disappeared as I, strictly as a fan, felt cheated. I wonder how old Doc Buss felt? Or Kobe?
LO's misfortune at present is that he's a FA in a down market. Why that has anything to do with Kobe is beyond me.
I expect Ariza to get paid because of the alarmingly fast improvement he's shown from one season to the next. He's shown the requisite hunger to better himself, the requisite abilities to help the team win, and the requisite killer instinct to impose his will even in the biggest games. I don't think the organization expects or requires any to take a pay cut in order to pay Ariza.
Lo was great down the stretch. Too ofetn, however, he has not been great as a laker. It is ridiculous to expect Kobe to give up what he deserves to a player that has not always deserved what he's gotten.
Buss should pay both Ariza dn LO what they deserve, but I don't see why that needs to come out of Kobe's pocket. Now, if he chooses to do so, that's another matter altogether.
But I certainly would not think any less of Kobe by going after what the market will shell out for his services.
To place yet another unmerited burden on him is crazy after the way he's come through time and time again.
SGH |
Kobe whined and demanded a trade when he didn't have a team around him that he liked. Two years later, he has that team, they've won a championship and now what if the only way to keep that team together is for Kobe to take less money.
He doesn't have to and I certainly wouldn't blame him for not doing it, but we better not hear anymore complaining out of him if he doesn't. I'd hate to think one of the key pieces of what could have been a championship contender for the next 5 years goes elsewhere so Kobe can have a few extra millions. |
This is just moronic thinking, I'm sorry. Kobe said to the owner, get better players or I'm going to a team that will. That had nothing to do with money or anything else. Kobe wants to win, but he's not the GD owner for (bleep) sakes. If the Lakers don't want to pay LO or Ariza or Kobe, fine, someone else will. For (bleep) sakes now Kobe has to take ownership responsibility without having any ownership? I really thought some LA fans couldn't get any dumber. |
It's called making a sacrifice to keep his team together. Everyone is going to have to do it. Odom will have to take less if he wants to stay. Buss will have to pay out the ass more than he wants to. And maybe, just maybe, it would help if Kobe took less money. He doesn't have to, but it would go a long long long way to help keeping this team together. |
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Hector the Pup
Retired Number
Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 35946
Location: L.A.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Odom will be taking less regardless of whether he stays or goes and at the end of the day, he's looking out for himself and his family first and foremost. |
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Zhengi
Star Player
Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Posts: 6445
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| Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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Great article Larry. Explained everything in great detail.
I wish Kobe would take a paycut, but he really doesn't have to. He can definitely make up all that money through his sponsorships and getting more rings increases his marketability. It would be a good sacrifice if he did do it.
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82410
Star Player
Joined: 01 Oct 2007
Posts: 3182
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| Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Username wrote: | | 82410 wrote: | | Username wrote: | | Sister Golden Hair wrote: | Interesting. And here I thought Kobe had passed the last hurdle in order to "prove" himself to the various opponents, fans, critics, etc. Apparently, there's one last hurdle: now he has to give even more of himself -- this time directly from his own pockets -- to prove that he's a good guy, team player, committed to winning, yadda yadda yadda.
Kobe gives his all year in, year out. Game in, game out. Can the same thing be said of LO? Has his game improved each and every off-season? To be frank, I would argue that LO has made a hell of a lot more in his most recent contract than his production merited. There were simply too many nights where he disappeared as I, strictly as a fan, felt cheated. I wonder how old Doc Buss felt? Or Kobe?
LO's misfortune at present is that he's a FA in a down market. Why that has anything to do with Kobe is beyond me.
I expect Ariza to get paid because of the alarmingly fast improvement he's shown from one season to the next. He's shown the requisite hunger to better himself, the requisite abilities to help the team win, and the requisite killer instinct to impose his will even in the biggest games. I don't think the organization expects or requires any to take a pay cut in order to pay Ariza.
Lo was great down the stretch. Too ofetn, however, he has not been great as a laker. It is ridiculous to expect Kobe to give up what he deserves to a player that has not always deserved what he's gotten.
Buss should pay both Ariza dn LO what they deserve, but I don't see why that needs to come out of Kobe's pocket. Now, if he chooses to do so, that's another matter altogether.
But I certainly would not think any less of Kobe by going after what the market will shell out for his services.
To place yet another unmerited burden on him is crazy after the way he's come through time and time again.
SGH |
Kobe whined and demanded a trade when he didn't have a team around him that he liked. Two years later, he has that team, they've won a championship and now what if the only way to keep that team together is for Kobe to take less money.
He doesn't have to and I certainly wouldn't blame him for not doing it, but we better not hear anymore complaining out of him if he doesn't. I'd hate to think one of the key pieces of what could have been a championship contender for the next 5 years goes elsewhere so Kobe can have a few extra millions. |
This is just moronic thinking, I'm sorry. Kobe said to the owner, get better players or I'm going to a team that will. That had nothing to do with money or anything else. Kobe wants to win, but he's not the GD owner for (bleep) sakes. If the Lakers don't want to pay LO or Ariza or Kobe, fine, someone else will. For (bleep) sakes now Kobe has to take ownership responsibility without having any ownership? I really thought some LA fans couldn't get any dumber. |
It's called making a sacrifice to keep his team together. Everyone is going to have to do it. Odom will have to take less if he wants to stay. Buss will have to pay out the ass more than he wants to. And maybe, just maybe, it would help if Kobe took less money. He doesn't have to, but it would go a long long long way to help keeping this team together. |
Sounds like logical thinking...Now here's what I want you to do Monday. Go to your boss and take a pay cut so the secretary that takes the long lunches and misses a day a week for carpel tunnel can keep her job with your company (call it a sacrifice). An NBA team is not a co-op it is a freaking business. Buss is the owner, Kobe is the employee. If Buss would rather not pay max money to Kobe, perhaps someone else will. It's not up to Kobe to keep the team together, it's up to the owner. This might finally drive me away from these (bleep) boards. The (bleep) guy just busted a gut for his 4th title, won the MVP, didn't miss a game, played hurt sick, won gold for his country and some Laker fans think he should take a paycut...you know to show SACRIFICE and all 
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The heroes of the past are untouchable, protected forever by the fortress door of time-unless some mysterious stranger magically turns up with a key. |
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divncom
Star Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 1365
Location: Sydney via L.A.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Sister Golden Hair wrote: | Interesting. And here I thought Kobe had passed the last hurdle in order to "prove" himself to the various opponents, fans, critics, etc. Apparently, there's one last hurdle: now he has to give even more of himself -- this time directly from his own pockets -- to prove that he's a good guy, team player, committed to winning, yadda yadda yadda.
Kobe gives his all year in, year out. Game in, game out. Can the same thing be said of LO? Has his game improved each and every off-season? To be frank, I would argue that LO has made a hell of a lot more in his most recent contract than his production merited. There were simply too many nights where he disappeared as I, strictly as a fan, felt cheated. I wonder how old Doc Buss felt? Or Kobe?
LO's misfortune at present is that he's a FA in a down market. Why that has anything to do with Kobe is beyond me.
I expect Ariza to get paid because of the alarmingly fast improvement he's shown from one season to the next. He's shown the requisite hunger to better himself, the requisite abilities to help the team win, and the requisite killer instinct to impose his will even in the biggest games. I don't think the organization expects or requires any to take a pay cut in order to pay Ariza.
Lo was great down the stretch. Too ofetn, however, he has not been great as a laker. It is ridiculous to expect Kobe to give up what he deserves to a player that has not always deserved what he's gotten.
Buss should pay both Ariza dn LO what they deserve, but I don't see why that needs to come out of Kobe's pocket. Now, if he chooses to do so, that's another matter altogether.
But I certainly would not think any less of Kobe by going after what the market will shell out for his services.
To place yet another unmerited burden on him is crazy after the way he's come through time and time again.
SGH |
Great Post!
(Bolding by me...to emphasise!) |
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chazzz3dt_AB17
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Joined: 22 Apr 2008
Posts: 7392
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| Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| ArminNBA wrote: | | FOXeatsFISH wrote: | | Curious question. Would any of you take a paycut to keep your coworkers employed? I read how some policemen were asked to take a paycut or have 9 of their fellow officers laid off. They chose not to take the paycut. Sorry if this ruins the mood of the thread. |
They aren't making millions upon millions of dollars. |
exactly. would take a cut only making a little over 40 grand a year if that with a family to feed? i dont think so. sucks but its how the cookie crumbles. |
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thegreatest
Star Player
Joined: 02 Sep 2002
Posts: 9911
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| Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Username wrote: | | Sister Golden Hair wrote: | Interesting. And here I thought Kobe had passed the last hurdle in order to "prove" himself to the various opponents, fans, critics, etc. Apparently, there's one last hurdle: now he has to give even more of himself -- this time directly from his own pockets -- to prove that he's a good guy, team player, committed to winning, yadda yadda yadda.
Kobe gives his all year in, year out. Game in, game out. Can the same thing be said of LO? Has his game improved each and every off-season? To be frank, I would argue that LO has made a hell of a lot more in his most recent contract than his production merited. There were simply too many nights where he disappeared as I, strictly as a fan, felt cheated. I wonder how old Doc Buss felt? Or Kobe?
LO's misfortune at present is that he's a FA in a down market. Why that has anything to do with Kobe is beyond me.
I expect Ariza to get paid because of the alarmingly fast improvement he's shown from one season to the next. He's shown the requisite hunger to better himself, the requisite abilities to help the team win, and the requisite killer instinct to impose his will even in the biggest games. I don't think the organization expects or requires any to take a pay cut in order to pay Ariza.
Lo was great down the stretch. Too ofetn, however, he has not been great as a laker. It is ridiculous to expect Kobe to give up what he deserves to a player that has not always deserved what he's gotten.
Buss should pay both Ariza dn LO what they deserve, but I don't see why that needs to come out of Kobe's pocket. Now, if he chooses to do so, that's another matter altogether.
But I certainly would not think any less of Kobe by going after what the market will shell out for his services.
To place yet another unmerited burden on him is crazy after the way he's come through time and time again.
SGH |
Kobe whined and demanded a trade when he didn't have a team around him that he liked. Two years later, he has that team, they've won a championship and now what if the only way to keep that team together is for Kobe to take less money.
He doesn't have to and I certainly wouldn't blame him for not doing it, but we better not hear anymore complaining out of him if he doesn't. I'd hate to think one of the key pieces of what could have been a championship contender for the next 5 years goes elsewhere so Kobe can have a few extra millions. |
That is not the case.
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thegreatest
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Joined: 02 Sep 2002
Posts: 9911
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| Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Username wrote: | | 82410 wrote: | | Username wrote: | | Sister Golden Hair wrote: | Interesting. And here I thought Kobe had passed the last hurdle in order to "prove" himself to the various opponents, fans, critics, etc. Apparently, there's one last hurdle: now he has to give even more of himself -- this time directly from his own pockets -- to prove that he's a good guy, team player, committed to winning, yadda yadda yadda.
Kobe gives his all year in, year out. Game in, game out. Can the same thing be said of LO? Has his game improved each and every off-season? To be frank, I would argue that LO has made a hell of a lot more in his most recent contract than his production merited. There were simply too many nights where he disappeared as I, strictly as a fan, felt cheated. I wonder how old Doc Buss felt? Or Kobe?
LO's misfortune at present is that he's a FA in a down market. Why that has anything to do with Kobe is beyond me.
I expect Ariza to get paid because of the alarmingly fast improvement he's shown from one season to the next. He's shown the requisite hunger to better himself, the requisite abilities to help the team win, and the requisite killer instinct to impose his will even in the biggest games. I don't think the organization expects or requires any to take a pay cut in order to pay Ariza.
Lo was great down the stretch. Too ofetn, however, he has not been great as a laker. It is ridiculous to expect Kobe to give up what he deserves to a player that has not always deserved what he's gotten.
Buss should pay both Ariza dn LO what they deserve, but I don't see why that needs to come out of Kobe's pocket. Now, if he chooses to do so, that's another matter altogether.
But I certainly would not think any less of Kobe by going after what the market will shell out for his services.
To place yet another unmerited burden on him is crazy after the way he's come through time and time again.
SGH |
Kobe whined and demanded a trade when he didn't have a team around him that he liked. Two years later, he has that team, they've won a championship and now what if the only way to keep that team together is for Kobe to take less money.
He doesn't have to and I certainly wouldn't blame him for not doing it, but we better not hear anymore complaining out of him if he doesn't. I'd hate to think one of the key pieces of what could have been a championship contender for the next 5 years goes elsewhere so Kobe can have a few extra millions. |
This is just moronic thinking, I'm sorry. Kobe said to the owner, get better players or I'm going to a team that will. That had nothing to do with money or anything else. Kobe wants to win, but he's not the GD owner for (bleep) sakes. If the Lakers don't want to pay LO or Ariza or Kobe, fine, someone else will. For (bleep) sakes now Kobe has to take ownership responsibility without having any ownership? I really thought some LA fans couldn't get any dumber. |
It's called making a sacrifice to keep his team together. Everyone is going to have to do it. Odom will have to take less if he wants to stay. Buss will have to pay out the ass more than he wants to. And maybe, just maybe, it would help if Kobe took less money. He doesn't have to, but it would go a long long long way to help keeping this team together. |
So how much of a pay cut should he take? Keep in mind, that if he takes any pay cut this year, he is effectively doing the same for the length of his contract.
If takes a pay cut of 2 million for the next 4 years, he will lose out on 8+ million over the next 4 years.
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"Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships."
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Username
Star Player
Joined: 22 Apr 2004
Posts: 4719
Location: Out There
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| Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| 82410 wrote: | | Username wrote: | | 82410 wrote: | | Username wrote: | | Sister Golden Hair wrote: | Interesting. And here I thought Kobe had passed the last hurdle in order to "prove" himself to the various opponents, fans, critics, etc. Apparently, there's one last hurdle: now he has to give even more of himself -- this time directly from his own pockets -- to prove that he's a good guy, team player, committed to winning, yadda yadda yadda.
Kobe gives his all year in, year out. Game in, game out. Can the same thing be said of LO? Has his game improved each and every off-season? To be frank, I would argue that LO has made a hell of a lot more in his most recent contract than his production merited. There were simply too many nights where he disappeared as I, strictly as a fan, felt cheated. I wonder how old Doc Buss felt? Or Kobe?
LO's misfortune at present is that he's a FA in a down market. Why that has anything to do with Kobe is beyond me.
I expect Ariza to get paid because of the alarmingly fast improvement he's shown from one season to the next. He's shown the requisite hunger to better himself, the requisite abilities to help the team win, and the requisite killer instinct to impose his will even in the biggest games. I don't think the organization expects or requires any to take a pay cut in order to pay Ariza.
Lo was great down the stretch. Too ofetn, however, he has not been great as a laker. It is ridiculous to expect Kobe to give up what he deserves to a player that has not always deserved what he's gotten.
Buss should pay both Ariza dn LO what they deserve, but I don't see why that needs to come out of Kobe's pocket. Now, if he chooses to do so, that's another matter altogether.
But I certainly would not think any less of Kobe by going after what the market will shell out for his services.
To place yet another unmerited burden on him is crazy after the way he's come through time and time again.
SGH |
Kobe whined and demanded a trade when he didn't have a team around him that he liked. Two years later, he has that team, they've won a championship and now what if the only way to keep that team together is for Kobe to take less money.
He doesn't have to and I certainly wouldn't blame him for not doing it, but we better not hear anymore complaining out of him if he doesn't. I'd hate to think one of the key pieces of what could have been a championship contender for the next 5 years goes elsewhere so Kobe can have a few extra millions. |
This is just moronic thinking, I'm sorry. Kobe said to the owner, get better players or I'm going to a team that will. That had nothing to do with money or anything else. Kobe wants to win, but he's not the GD owner for (bleep) sakes. If the Lakers don't want to pay LO or Ariza or Kobe, fine, someone else will. For (bleep) sakes now Kobe has to take ownership responsibility without having any ownership? I really thought some LA fans couldn't get any dumber. |
It's called making a sacrifice to keep his team together. Everyone is going to have to do it. Odom will have to take less if he wants to stay. Buss will have to pay out the ass more than he wants to. And maybe, just maybe, it would help if Kobe took less money. He doesn't have to, but it would go a long long long way to help keeping this team together. |
Sounds like logical thinking...Now here's what I want you to do Monday. Go to your boss and take a pay cut so the secretary that takes the long lunches and misses a day a week for carpel tunnel can keep her job with your company (call it a sacrifice). An NBA team is not a co-op it is a freaking business. Buss is the owner, Kobe is the employee. If Buss would rather not pay max money to Kobe, perhaps someone else will. It's not up to Kobe to keep the team together, it's up to the owner. This might finally drive me away from these (bleep) boards. The (bleep) guy just busted a gut for his 4th title, won the MVP, didn't miss a game, played hurt sick, won gold for his country and some Laker fans think he should take a paycut...you know to show SACRIFICE and all |
First of all, at my place of employment, I don't make anywhere near what Kobe makes. A "pay cut" for Kobe still sets him, his kids, his grandkids and probably his great grandkids up for life if they want.
Second, at my job, we aren't all working toward one goal of being the absolute best company we can be (well, maybe that's the idea, but nobody really cares). We're showing up to collect a check. I would hope Kobe's goal in playing basketball is to win championships. It's a job and he has to provide for his family, but I would hope his goal as a basketball player is to win as many championships as he possibly can. Therefore, as the leader of the team, making sacrifices might be in order to make that happen. We're expecting everyone else in the situation but Kobe to make a sacrifice here.
Once again, I don't think he HAS to do it and I'm not saying he definitely should do it. I'm simply saying that if it's been Kobe having a few more millions or keeping this team together, I'll take the latter. |
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safari_in_cali
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Joined: 06 Oct 2002
Posts: 1029
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| Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Username wrote: | First of all, at my place of employment, I don't make anywhere near what Kobe makes. A "pay cut" for Kobe still sets him, his kids, his grandkids and probably his great grandkids up for life if they want.
Second, at my job, we aren't all working toward one goal of being the absolute best company we can be (well, maybe that's the idea, but nobody really cares). We're showing up to collect a check. I would hope Kobe's goal in playing basketball is to win championships. It's a job and he has to provide for his family, but I would hope his goal as a basketball player is to win as many championships as he possibly can. Therefore, as the leader of the team, making sacrifices might be in order to make that happen. We're expecting everyone else in the situation but Kobe to make a sacrifice here.
Once again, I don't think he HAS to do it and I'm not saying he definitely should do it. I'm simply saying that if it's been Kobe having a few more millions or keeping this team together, I'll take the latter. |
I get tired of people saying that Kobe makes millions, so taking a paycut is nothing to him. We're talking about millions of dollars! Let me put this into perspective. Let's say you want Kobe to take a 10% paycut, which will be over 2 mil a year for him. Now let's say you work with your best friend, who did a lot of good things, but the company wouldn't give him a raise. He is only asking for a 10% raise, and if he doesn't get it, he would leave the company and move to another city because he got an offer from a competitor. You're making $50K a year and your boss told you that you're getting a $5K bonus. Would you give your bonus check to your friend, so he stays? We're only talking about $5K here, it won't break you, right? |
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reika-zu
Starting Rotation
Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 411
Location: TORRANCE
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| Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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| safari_in_cali wrote: | | Username wrote: | First of all, at my place of employment, I don't make anywhere near what Kobe makes. A "pay cut" for Kobe still sets him, his kids, his grandkids and probably his great grandkids up for life if they want.
Second, at my job, we aren't all working toward one goal of being the absolute best company we can be (well, maybe that's the idea, but nobody really cares). We're showing up to collect a check. I would hope Kobe's goal in playing basketball is to win championships. It's a job and he has to provide for his family, but I would hope his goal as a basketball player is to win as many championships as he possibly can. Therefore, as the leader of the team, making sacrifices might be in order to make that happen. We're expecting everyone else in the situation but Kobe to make a sacrifice here.
Once again, I don't think he HAS to do it and I'm not saying he definitely should do it. I'm simply saying that if it's been Kobe having a few more millions or keeping this team together, I'll take the latter. |
I get tired of people saying that Kobe makes millions, so taking a paycut is nothing to him. We're talking about millions of dollars! Let me put this into perspective. Let's say you want Kobe to take a 10% paycut, which will be over 2 mil a year for him. Now let's say you work with your best friend, who did a lot of good things, but the company wouldn't give him a raise. He is only asking for a 10% raise, and if he doesn't get it, he would leave the company and move to another city because he got an offer from a competitor. You're making $50K a year and your boss told you that you're getting a $5K bonus. Would you give your bonus check to your friend, so he stays? We're only talking about $5K here, it won't break you, right? |
But I thought the S for USA stands for Socialism? I'm not calling
you, Username, a socialist or anything like that. I am, though
calling the ideology behind Kobe being in a position where he'd
be forced to take less money for the betterment of the team that,
or at least one interpertation of it.
Me personally, I have no problem with the concept of spreading the
wealth for "certain" situations. But aside from my personal feelings
about socialism, tell me, why are people pissed off at their respective companies
or government for having to take furloughs again? Despite it saving
a company or state from not functioning?
I understand your position in wanting Kobe's goal to be "wanting to
win as many chips as possible." Ultimately though, the financial
responsibilies of the team should remain the sole responsibility of
the owner. Putting together a team? GM. Playing their behinds off?
The player. |
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Dondre
Starting Rotation
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 509
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| Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:26 am Post subject: It's not Kobe's fault |
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The only reason the Lakers are even in this situation is because of the number of bloated contracts they paid out recently.
Luke, Sasha and Bynum are all overpaid and it will more than likely cost the Lakers one or two key players. If anyone should take a paycut it should be those three. Is Bynum really better than Lamar at this point? Hell no. Was Sasha better than Shannon Brown during the playoffs? Not close. Luke played solid but was he the deciding factor in any games in the playoffs like Ariza?
Kobe absolutely shouldn't take a pay cut! If Luke, Sasha and Bynum actually played nearly as well as they were getting paid we wouldn't even but having this problem at all. |
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