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Christopher C
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 Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| The best way for Odom to score in the paint is off of dives to the rim without the ball and off of offensive rebounds. He just needs to be more active out there. |
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yanyon
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:11 am Post subject: |
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thanks DB...  |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| TheJellosJigglin' wrote: | | The best way for Odom to score in the paint is off of dives to the rim without the ball and off of offensive rebounds. He just needs to be more active out there. |
Great observation and I completely agree. However, he seemed to be most effective when diving while Gasol was in the post, so that may be part of the issue. Kobe often posts a little higher in the pinch post, making those dive cuts harder, and for some reason Odom isn't making those cuts while Bynum's down low.
Hopefully that changes when Pau comes back. |
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Rick12322
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| socalfan2708 wrote: | | Rick12322 wrote: | | I get the feeling LO is not in game shape, and has not gotten his timing back yet. |
I get the feeling that some of us have forgotten that this is exactly what LO does in the reg season. He'll have good games and then have some not so good games. Good thing that he has showed us that once the playoffs roll around he puts forth maximum effort. |
Ok, but one of the reasons i said that was because of his post game comment in our 1st Over Time game this year, he said his legs were very tired after the 1st quarter. He always plays himself into game shape, like most players do, and right now per his own comments, he's not there yet.
And in his last 3 games, fatigue has shown in his play. |
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Hector the Pup
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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He said that his legs were dead after the first quarter of the 2nd overtime game.
Shouldn't be as big of a factor when he goes back to coming off the bench. |
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tenike1
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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Bynum is a hornet exterminator. He should beast them. memphis is already out of the way, so he should be ready to go.
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DancingBarry
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: |
Regarding his D, I think it's all the minutes. He hasn't played 40 a night since 2-3 years. Phil has been riding the starters, and clearly we see Lamar's legs aren't what they used to be. He'll be much better when Phil can get his minutes down 30. That isn't a good enough excuse though, because I have high standards for Lamar's defense. He was one of our best last year in defending. He started off strong this year but the last few games his D has slipped. Need to get that back. I think minutes going down to 30 will help him a great deal.
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I think he is trying to be careful right now with the lack of bigs and I see some of that when he's not challenging shots. He just needs to watch those careless fouls so he can use his fouls when he really needs to. |
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StuLantz#1
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Joined: 04 Jul 2001
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| tenike1 wrote: | | Bynum is a hornet exterminator. He should beast them. memphis is already out of the way, so he should be ready to go. |
He's listed as doubtful for Sunday. I'm not saying it's never happened, but I can't recall a guy missing two games from a hack on the arm. There's no way Gasol will play, but that was pretty obvious given how much he still seems to be worried about the leg (plus the 3 days off after Sunday).
Mbenga surprised me with his quality game, but it's a big difference when you go up against a team like Memphis. Too many scorers, not enough guys like Artest willing to sacrifice their game to do the little things. With all the talent over there you'd think a competent GM could fix things. Mbenga has a pretty low basketball IQ, which is what I really dislike about his play, but he made up for it with the ability he does have last night. Just stop throwing the ball to him in the post already. But looks like we'll need another flawless night from Kobe to compete undermanned against the Hornets this Sunday.
Liked this quote from Phil:
| Quote: | | Phil on Artest: "The thing I like about Artest (offensively) is that he makes plays, he doesn't have to score." |
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DancingBarry
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | TheJellosJigglin' wrote: | | The best way for Odom to score in the paint is off of dives to the rim without the ball and off of offensive rebounds. He just needs to be more active out there. |
Great observation and I completely agree. However, he seemed to be most effective when diving while Gasol was in the post, so that may be part of the issue. Kobe often posts a little higher in the pinch post, making those dive cuts harder, and for some reason Odom isn't making those cuts while Bynum's down low.
Hopefully that changes when Pau comes back. |
We also have some two-man sequences with Pau/Kobe that Lamar plays a key role in. When we have two bigs out there who can work on the perimeter/high post that opens up more options for LO off the ball.
His on again/off again nature gets more focus when he's more in the spotlight. Hopefully, next game he's "on". |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| I gotta say, watching Diet Gasol play for Memphis made me miss Pau. |
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StuLantz#1
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| DancingBarry wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: |
Regarding his D, I think it's all the minutes. He hasn't played 40 a night since 2-3 years. Phil has been riding the starters, and clearly we see Lamar's legs aren't what they used to be. He'll be much better when Phil can get his minutes down 30. That isn't a good enough excuse though, because I have high standards for Lamar's defense. He was one of our best last year in defending. He started off strong this year but the last few games his D has slipped. Need to get that back. I think minutes going down to 30 will help him a great deal.
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I think he is trying to be careful right now with the lack of bigs and I see some of that when he's not challenging shots. He just needs to watch those careless fouls so he can use his fouls when he really needs to. |
I don't know, to me he looks more like when he goes through those regular disappearing acts than he does tentative. He's looked so bad out there with the exception of game 1--maybe they should force Khloe to attend games for extra motivation. I do like that his jumpshot and three ball has looked pretty good so far (it can't be understated how important that will be). Still, the thing about Odom is he really isn't a great outside shooter, can't really post up, and can't constantly take guys off the dribble and create shots. So it's hard to count on him as a consistent offensive options without a lot of things coming together. I don't doubt the contribution he can bring when he's on, but he is so off right now it's frustrating to watch. |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| DancingBarry wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | TheJellosJigglin' wrote: | | The best way for Odom to score in the paint is off of dives to the rim without the ball and off of offensive rebounds. He just needs to be more active out there. |
Great observation and I completely agree. However, he seemed to be most effective when diving while Gasol was in the post, so that may be part of the issue. Kobe often posts a little higher in the pinch post, making those dive cuts harder, and for some reason Odom isn't making those cuts while Bynum's down low.
Hopefully that changes when Pau comes back. |
We also have some two-man sequences with Pau/Kobe that Lamar plays a key role in. When we have two bigs out there who can work on the perimeter/high post that opens up more options for LO off the ball.
His on again/off again nature gets more focus when he's more in the spotlight. Hopefully, next game he's "on". |
Are you talking about the pick and roll play where Pau slips it and heads to the free throw line when Kobe's trapped and Gasol end up getting an assist to Odom when LO cuts to the hoop?
That's one of my favorite plays that we run. |
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Addicus
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Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 9642
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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What we are seeing is how good Kobe could have been as a scorer if he didn't always have to initiate the offense AND be the best perimeter defender. This is the situation that Jordan, Reggie Miller and many other greats were able to play the majority of their career in, yet it has been the first for Bryant. The main difference I see is his stamina in the 4th quarter is unwavering as he has plenty of energy. Thank you Ron Artest for giving us what we've all hoped Lamar Odom could for the last 4-5 years.
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Great write up DB.
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DancingBarry
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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GoldenThroat - Yeah that is one of them, often Odom is also the guy to go to the FT line to take the pass and then set up Pau.
In general, though, when we have more floor spacing because of Pau's range, Lamar can use his speed better to drive or cut. We certainly miss the chemistry those two have out there and how they compliment eachother's game.
Last edited by DancingBarry on Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Freakout
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| StuLantz#1 wrote: | | tenike1 wrote: | | Bynum is a hornet exterminator. He should beast them. memphis is already out of the way, so he should be ready to go. |
He's listed as doubtful for Sunday. I'm not saying it's never happened, but I can't recall a guy missing two games from a hack on the arm. There's no way Gasol will play, but that was pretty obvious given how much he still seems to be worried about the leg (plus the 3 days off after Sunday).
Mbenga surprised me with his quality game, but it's a big difference when you go up against a team like Memphis. Too many scorers, not enough guys like Artest willing to sacrifice their game to do the little things. With all the talent over there you'd think a competent GM could fix things. Mbenga has a pretty low basketball IQ, which is what I really dislike about his play, but he made up for it with the ability he does have last night. Just stop throwing the ball to him in the post already. But looks like we'll need another flawless night from Kobe to compete undermanned against the Hornets this Sunday.
Liked this quote from Phil:
| Quote: | | Phil on Artest: "The thing I like about Artest (offensively) is that he makes plays, he doesn't have to score." |
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That is the sad thing about a team like Memphis. The talent is there in spades but the overall IQ from the coach on down to the players is missing.
In the first quarter, despite Mbenga's play he still had 2 fouls because Marc got him to bite on a couple of head fakes. Knowing how thin our front line was last night you would think that Memphis would exploit that and go inside more to Marc to see if he could get DJ to leave his feet again but nope.
They looked for Randolph but the problem with that is a quick double and he falls apart. Dude couldn't pass out of a double team if he was being guarded by midgets. |
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A Mad Chinaman
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Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 6172
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| DancingBarry wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: |
Regarding his D, I think it's all the minutes. He hasn't played 40 a night since 2-3 years. Phil has been riding the starters, and clearly we see Lamar's legs aren't what they used to be. He'll be much better when Phil can get his minutes down 30. That isn't a good enough excuse though, because I have high standards for Lamar's defense. He was one of our best last year in defending. He started off strong this year but the last few games his D has slipped. Need to get that back. I think minutes going down to 30 will help him a great deal. |
I think he is trying to be careful right now with the lack of bigs and I see some of that when he's not challenging shots. He just needs to watch those careless fouls so he can use his fouls when he really needs to. |
Great Job!
Can anybody confirm that LO was playing in last night's game? It was interestng seeing how much Norm Nixon was trying to sugarcoat LO's performance, it makes one doubt how objective and accurate his future (along with past) comments are. An "example" of his basketball IQ - he is the lead Laker on a fastbreak, he is at the rim with a small player in front of him and he tosses it out to DFish for a Wing 3. When is this ever a good decision - even though DFish made the 3? If LO is not going to do anything on offense, why isn't he working on defense (despite the so-called observations of Stormin' Norman). Why wasn't he active in getting boards and pushing the ball - unless he doesn't have the skills to play without fouling when bringing the ball upcourt? I understand that the physical aspects might not be there, but it is realistic to expect his mental aspects to be there - isn't it?
With DJ getting his many boards, what excuse does Bynum have to get less boards in his minutes than what DJ got in the first quarter? |
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MisterGMB
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Freakout
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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| A Mad Chinaman wrote: |
With DJ getting his many boards, what excuse does Bynum have to get less boards in his minutes than what DJ got in the first quarter? |
Sometimes the ball just bounces your way. Mbenga had what, 9 in the first 9 minutes of the quarter? So for the next 3 quarter's (21 minutes) he only managed 4 more?
I'm not knocking DJ - I thought he played great but the rebounding talk is being overblown. |
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A Mad Chinaman
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Freakout wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | With DJ getting his many boards, what excuse does Bynum have to get less boards in his minutes than what DJ got in the first quarter? |
Sometimes the ball just bounces your way. Mbenga had what, 9 in the first 9 minutes of the quarter? So for the next 3 quarter's (21 minutes) he only managed 4 more? I'm not knocking DJ - I thought he played great but the rebounding talk is being overblown. |
Hmm - using your analogy, when Drew gets 3 rebounds - the ball just stayed away from him?!?! If Bynum wants to be an elite center, getting boards (along with defense, before offense) should be his calling card. Rebounding, as Stu Lantz has often stated, is an "effort" stat where one have to have the activity and drive to get every rebound - not just to wait till it bounces your way. From the days of Rodman to Bill Russell to the Nuggets' Anderson to Rockets' Scola, they didn't wait till the ball "just bounces your way." Just my one cent worth of commentary |
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Freakout
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | Freakout wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | With DJ getting his many boards, what excuse does Bynum have to get less boards in his minutes than what DJ got in the first quarter? |
Sometimes the ball just bounces your way. Mbenga had what, 9 in the first 9 minutes of the quarter? So for the next 3 quarter's (21 minutes) he only managed 4 more? I'm not knocking DJ - I thought he played great but the rebounding talk is being overblown. |
Hmm - using your analogy, when Drew gets 3 rebounds - the ball just stayed away from him?!?! If Bynum wants to be an elite center, getting boards (along with defense, before offense) should be his calling card. Rebounding, as Stu Lantz has often stated, is an "effort" stat where one have to have the activity and drive to get every rebound - not just to wait till it bounces your way. From the days of Rodman to Bill Russell to the Nuggets' Anderson to Rockets' Scola, they didn't wait till the ball "just bounces your way." Just my one cent worth of commentary |
Well Drew is averaging 10 boards a game. One game out of 5 played he had a crappy 3 boards and for some reason folks like you are freaking zoned in on that one game.
It isn't about waiting until the ball comes your way. It is about being realistic and understanding that there are other players on the floor that want to rebound as well. Just because a guy is 7 foot doesn't mean he is going to grab every board that he is close to. The other team does box out as well you know? No one just moves out of the way so the opponents center can have every rebound.
Averaging 10 boards a game is not a easy thing to do. You do realize that in Pau Gasol's 8 years in the league he has not once averaged 10 rebounds a game?
Right now there are only 6 guys ahead of Bynum in rebounding at the center position. Of those 6 only 2 of them are also chipping in 20 points per game. |
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A Mad Chinaman
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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To "Freakout"
Regarding "the ball just bounces your way" - being a rebounder means going after the ball. Your suggested method leaves it too luck, where most NBA coaches/players recognized that rebounds is the direct result of effort.
Regarding "Drew is averaging 10 boards a game"
It should be noted that Pau hasn't played this season and LO hasn't awaken from his long nights with Khloe - many, like myself, have watched the games and wondered if LO is even playing (another subject). If Bynum is not getting more rebounds during this time, he needs his minutes to be cut down.
Regarding being "freaking zoned"
I, unfortunately, am not as emotional as you are. When I see 2nd-tier centers (Dampier) outplay Drew - along with his 3 rebound game, one observes this and wonder if there is a pattern starting. It is hard to imagine that a 7' center doesn't get more 3 rebounds by mistake if he is around the rim - which Drew is.
Regarding being "realistic and understanding"
Being 7' means that he should get to many rebounds because he is taller. With LO always floating in "Never Never Land" and Kobe or RonRon posting up while demanding double teams, Drew is always on the weakside with a clear path to the hoop since (besides LO) DFish and RonRon are on the perimeter leaving him with the best position to rebound.
Regarding "boxing out" - as just stated, with Drew on the weakside - he has excellent opportunities to rebound, if he wants to.
Regarding "Averaging 10 boards a game is not a easy thing to do" - in this current lineup, he should always average between 8 - 10 rebounds, especially when Pau comes back because he will be a post player that demands a doubleteam.
Regarding "You do realize that in Pau Gasol's 8 years in the league he has not once averaged 10 rebounds a game?"
Of course, you do realize that Pau is (presently) a much better player since he a better passer, better scorer, better defender and a much better basketball IQ.
Regarding "Right now there are only 6 guys ahead of Bynum in rebounding at the center position" - my God, if Bynum is thinking that he is an All-Star, should there be 6 guys rebounding more than him in a league where there are very few legimate centers!
What we are starting to see with clearer eyes what type of center Bynum will be. People hope that he will be a Super Star, that doesn't look like it will happen. Will he be a good center, probably - just as long as he is not playing against 2nd tier centers like Erick Dampier who can consistently stop him. When the Lakers play DHoward, KG, Shaq, Damp and others deep into the playoffs - is it realistic that Drew can play them straight-up and/or with minimum double-teams?
Last edited by A Mad Chinaman on Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Cha*n
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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I raed every article I post in "Lakers in the News" and must have read a dozen recaps of this game. Not one even came close to capturing the game as this one. Awesome job DB. We are very lucky to have you here.
Awesome DB  |
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TooMuchMajicBuss
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| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:21 am Post subject: |
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| Cha*n wrote: | I raed every article I post in "Lakers in the News" and must have read a dozen recaps of this game. Not one even came close to capturing the game as this one. Awesome job DB. We are very lucky to have you here.
Awesome DB |
+1
Thanks again DB! |
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Rick12322
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| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:54 am Post subject: |
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| I agree with Freakout. A lot of Dj's rebounds fell in his lap. The last game Bynum played, he was going after boards, not waiting for them to come to him. That's why in LO's post game interview he said he was proud of Drew for going after them. That's also when he said his legs were tired. |
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Rick12322
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| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 7:05 am Post subject: |
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Regarding Bynum's potential, yes, he can be a superstar. If it wasn't possible then Kobe and Phil wouldn't have said the "sky is the limit." Shaq is done, he may have short bursts of more power but he won't be keeping up with the pace of todays game, and after his over bloated contract expires this year he won't have half the incentive he has now to stay in semi decent shape. Bynum's time to shine will happen when Shaq is gone.
Dwight doesn't have the talent to develop the skills Drew can and will develop, Dwight is peaked athletically, Drew's athleticism is still developing. Drew probably won't end up with the same level of athleticism, but when he gets experience under his belt from time on the floor, he's got so many other things to develop that he will be better than Dwight overall, when taking the sum of all his talents IMO.
In Drew's class of centers, he will be up near or at the top in the years to come. The league has always had room for 2 or more superstars per position so its not like he'd have to be the only one to be a superstar.
Of course all of this is predicated on getting at least 75 games a year in the RS under his belt. It's impossible to tap into all of your talent with constant interruptions from injuries. |
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