Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144696 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 2:32 pm Post subject:
DJ Slik wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
The why is easy, when you are installing a new offense you want the starters to be used to playing with each other and the reserves the same. The backup QB doesn't get time with the starters from the beginning.
Horrible logic. If you are projecting that a player is going to play significant minutes with the starting unit you don't give him ZERO run with them. ZERO. you understand? Not mostly playing with the second team and a LITTLE run with the first team--ZERO. I'm sure Scott is going to change it up, but how does that make any sense? In what universe?
You do realize that it is you who is projecting that, don't you? _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144696 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 2:33 pm Post subject:
deal wrote:
DJ Slik wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
The why is easy, when you are installing a new offense you want the starters to be used to playing with each other and the reserves the same. The backup QB doesn't get time with the starters from the beginning.
Horrible logic. If you are projecting that a player is going to play significant minutes with the starting unit you don't give him ZERO run with them. ZERO. you understand? Not mostly playing with the second team and a LITTLE run with the first team--ZERO. I'm sure Scott is going to change it up, but how does that make any sense? In what universe?
Lin's the second best PG on the team, he'll certianly get more than enough minutes tonight and moving forward...
And he is getting time with the second unit, the group that he will probably play the most minutes with. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
He showed me some good court vision that I didn't think he had. He needs to work on his mid range game though and incorporate a floater because he doesn't have the hops to elevate over defenders in the paint.
He showed me some good court vision that I didn't think he had. He needs to work on his mid range game though and incorporate a floater because he doesn't have the hops to elevate over defenders in the paint.
he has the hops, he just gets himself in the wrong position i.e. too far under the basket or too close to the big man.
to me the issue last night was poor spacing and timing being off. another issue I saw was the bigs need to turn and pass the ball to the guards. randle is a PF. run the court, don't dribble the ball.
He showed me some good court vision that I didn't think he had. He needs to work on his mid range game though and incorporate a floater because he doesn't have the hops to elevate over defenders in the paint.
I don't think Lin played particularly well last night
I disagree. I thought he played quite well, particularly given that Clarkson and Randle ignored him repeatedly.
Lin looks like he can pass, but he wasn't really able to have that chance in Houston. At least not from the games I saw. And he can get to the lane easily.
I also like what I am seeing from him and Davis as a tandem off the bench.
It's a shame we lost Marshall though. Nash + Lin + Marshall would have been a strong trio at point guard I feel.
I think Nash would flourish with the younger legs. Not to mention, Kobe initiates the offense the lion's share of the time as well with the starters so Nash is essentially playing the role of Fisher.
Was I mistaken in seeing quite a bit of triangle sets in the first quarter?
First play of the game where Kobe air balled was triangle. That's the triangle sequence Scott likes to run.
He showed me some good court vision that I didn't think he had. He needs to work on his mid range game though and incorporate a floater because he doesn't have the hops to elevate over defenders in the paint.
he has the hops, he just gets himself in the wrong position i.e. too far under the basket or too close to the big man.
to me the issue last night was poor spacing and timing being off. another issue I saw was the bigs need to turn and pass the ball to the guards. randle is a PF. run the court, don't dribble the ball.
Randle being able to rebound and immediately push the ball up court is an asset, not a hinderance. Dribbling the ball is not exclusive right of particular positions. Lamar Odom was also a PF, and he did the same thing with great effectiveness. In those situations, Lin can use his speed to fill a wing and we'll be in business. You absolutely do not tell Randle "you're a PF, don't dribble".
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90348 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:41 am Post subject:
TheLakerWay wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
I don't think Lin played particularly well last night
I disagree. I thought he played quite well, particularly given that Clarkson and Randle ignored him repeatedly.
Lin looks like he can pass, but he wasn't really able to have that chance in Houston. At least not from the games I saw. And he can get to the lane easily.
I also like what I am seeing from him and Davis as a tandem off the bench.
It's a shame we lost Marshall though. Nash + Lin + Marshall would have been a strong trio at point guard I feel.
I just rewatched the game, and came away happier with Lin. Yes, he overpentrated some, but some of that was guys not moving with him. What impressed me was getting where he wanted to be at will and finding people. Ten assists and one turnover in the first preseason game? I'll take it. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
Joined: 12 Jul 2014 Posts: 606 Location: 32 miles from the Staples Center
Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:52 am Post subject:
GoldenThroat wrote:
tonman wrote:
PhoenixForce wrote:
He showed me some good court vision that I didn't think he had. He needs to work on his mid range game though and incorporate a floater because he doesn't have the hops to elevate over defenders in the paint.
he has the hops, he just gets himself in the wrong position i.e. too far under the basket or too close to the big man.
to me the issue last night was poor spacing and timing being off. another issue I saw was the bigs need to turn and pass the ball to the guards. randle is a PF. run the court, don't dribble the ball.
Randle being able to rebound and immediately push the ball up court is an asset, not a hinderance. Dribbling the ball is not exclusive right of particular positions. Lamar Odom was also a PF, and he did the same thing with great effectiveness. In those situations, Lin can use his speed to fill a wing and we'll be in business. You absolutely do not tell Randle "you're a PF, don't dribble".
I'm sure part of it is Lin learning what Randle is capable of. I think there were 2 situations in which Randle rebounded and Lin was waiting hanging back waiting for Randle to pass it to him. Once Randle shows that he is capable enough of bringing it across half court without turning it over every third play, Lin will come to expect it every so often.
I don't think Lin played particularly well last night
I disagree. I thought he played quite well, particularly given that Clarkson and Randle ignored him repeatedly.
Lin looks like he can pass, but he wasn't really able to have that chance in Houston. At least not from the games I saw. And he can get to the lane easily.
I also like what I am seeing from him and Davis as a tandem off the bench.
It's a shame we lost Marshall though. Nash + Lin + Marshall would have been a strong trio at point guard I feel.
I just rewatched the game, and came away happier with Lin. Yes, he overpentrated some, but some of that was guys not moving with him. What impressed me was getting where he wanted to be at will and finding people. Ten assists and one turnover in the first preseason game? I'll take it.
This was my own assessment. First game in a new system playing with two keyed-up rookies and you get a 10-to-1 assist-to-turnover ratio? If that's his bad game, I like the acquisition.
I'm not saying he played perfectly or that he's some point guard savior, but I was overall fairly pleased with his performance. But that's just my own opinion.
Last edited by TheLakerWay on Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:02 am; edited 1 time in total
I found it dumb to start Nash over Lin. Why starting him over a young, fully capable PG with tons of potential to be further developed? If Lin breaks out, good for Lakers. Sign him an extension contract and lock him in. Lakers would develop a young star. If Lin sucks, Lakers won't make Playoff anyways. Might get a high draft pick, still good for Lakers. The decision Scott made does not make sense to me right now. _________________ "We should have kept [Jeremy Lin]. Did not know he was this good," Morey wrote on his official Twitter account on Thursday. "Anyone who says they knew misleading U." - Morey (2012)
I found it dumb to start Nash over Lin. Why starting him over a young, fully capable PG with tons of potential to be further developed?
I think it's partly for pace reasons. Nash can play well at a slower pace (that fits Kobe) and I think Lin is still working on that part of his game.
Fair enough. But Lin is not a one-trick pony. He can learn to play at a slower pace. He did so in NY with Melo. Best way to learn is by doing it.
Running and gunning is also Nash's style. He cannot break defense down any more in a half court setting. Might be more useful directing a running and gunning offense with the young bench. _________________ "We should have kept [Jeremy Lin]. Did not know he was this good," Morey wrote on his official Twitter account on Thursday. "Anyone who says they knew misleading U." - Morey (2012)
Whether Lin starts or not, he'll still see the majority of minutes at point guard.
He's still getting acquainted to the offense and his teammates. When that happens, he'll be load to deal with.
He's also incredibly fit this year, probably the fittest on the team along with Wes. (I don't count Kobe/Steve because, given their mileage, it's mind-boggling the shape they're in)
I found it dumb to start Nash over Lin. Why starting him over a young, fully capable PG with tons of potential to be further developed?
I think it's partly for pace reasons. Nash can play well at a slower pace (that fits Kobe) and I think Lin is still working on that part of his game.
Fair enough. But Lin is not a one-trick pony. He can learn to play at a slower pace. He did so in NY with Melo. Best way to learn is by doing it.
Running and gunning is also Nash's style. He cannot break defense down any more in a half court setting. Might be more useful directing a running and gunning offense with the young bench.
Nash had a couple shots in the paint so he can still read defenses and break it down for a lay up. If you were actually watching the game nash outperformed lin offensively which is why Nash will stay with the first unit. Lin still needs to work on developing a consistent outside shot. Lin will get a lot of burn with the first unit starters though this season you don't have to overreact to lin not starting.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144696 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:22 am Post subject:
tonman wrote:
PhoenixForce wrote:
He showed me some good court vision that I didn't think he had. He needs to work on his mid range game though and incorporate a floater because he doesn't have the hops to elevate over defenders in the paint.
he has the hops, he just gets himself in the wrong position i.e. too far under the basket or too close to the big man.
to me the issue last night was poor spacing and timing being off. another issue I saw was the bigs need to turn and pass the ball to the guards. randle is a PF. run the court, don't dribble the ball.
Someone missed the pre-season comments from the head coach. And too often Lin drove directly under the basket at the baseline and had nowhere to go. He needs to work on angles. Still, I thought he did a good job of getting some guys point blank dunks. Preseason or not, 10 assists is good. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144696 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:28 am Post subject:
j-wolf wrote:
I found it dumb to start Nash over Lin. Why starting him over a young, fully capable PG with tons of potential to be further developed? If Lin breaks out, good for Lakers. Sign him an extension contract and lock him in. Lakers would develop a young star. If Lin sucks, Lakers won't make Playoff anyways. Might get a high draft pick, still good for Lakers. The decision Scott made does not make sense to me right now.
Simple anatomy, an object in motion stays in motion. You don't warm up a 40-year old, have him sit for 15 minutes, and then expect him to go in and perform. It makes more sense to play that guy while he is still warm. I like Lin and think he has a future here, but Nash is still the better player. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
I don't think Lin played particularly well last night, but I'd like to see him and Nash switch roles. Nash was getting absolutely torched, and there's no rim protection in the starting unit. Lin isn't a particularly good defender either, but he's better than Nash, and his footspeed makes a difference. I'd like to see Nash leading the young legs of the 2nd unit, with Davis (please no Sacre) back there protecting him defensively.
Awesome suggestion ... agree. Also agree that Lin didn't play all that well. He doesn't seem as secure with his handles or decision making ... flashes here and there but, if I remember correctly, consistency with QB'ing has been a constant critique as far as PG skills go with Lin.
I think Nash would flourish with the younger legs. Not to mention, Kobe initiates the offense the lion's share of the time as well with the starters so Nash is essentially playing the role of Fisher.
Was I mistaken in seeing quite a bit of triangle sets in the first quarter?
Agreed. Much prefer Lin starting and Nash guiding the young 2nd unit. It puts the second unit in the best position to succeed and Nash gets to go up against 2nd string point guards
He showed me some good court vision that I didn't think he had. He needs to work on his mid range game though and incorporate a floater because he doesn't have the hops to elevate over defenders in the paint.
he has the hops, he just gets himself in the wrong position i.e. too far under the basket or too close to the big man.
to me the issue last night was poor spacing and timing being off. another issue I saw was the bigs need to turn and pass the ball to the guards. randle is a PF. run the court, don't dribble the ball.
Randle being able to rebound and immediately push the ball up court is an asset, not a hinderance. Dribbling the ball is not exclusive right of particular positions. Lamar Odom was also a PF, and he did the same thing with great effectiveness. In those situations, Lin can use his speed to fill a wing and we'll be in business. You absolutely do not tell Randle "you're a PF, don't dribble".
I'm sure part of it is Lin learning what Randle is capable of. I think there were 2 situations in which Randle rebounded and Lin was waiting hanging back waiting for Randle to pass it to him. Once Randle shows that he is capable enough of bringing it across half court without turning it over every third play, Lin will come to expect it every so often.
That was my read on it is as well. Lin wasn't the only one that did that. With some more floor time together, they'll know that they should fill lanes when Randle gets the board. Lin & Randle have a chance to compliment each other nicely in transition, but both have to run the court when they don't have the ball. Lin does a better job of that than Randle.
I don't think Lin played particularly well last night, but I'd like to see him and Nash switch roles. Nash was getting absolutely torched, and there's no rim protection in the starting unit. Lin isn't a particularly good defender either, but he's better than Nash, and his footspeed makes a difference. I'd like to see Nash leading the young legs of the 2nd unit, with Davis (please no Sacre) back there protecting him defensively.
Awesome suggestion ... agree. Also agree that Lin didn't play all that well. He doesn't seem as secure with his handles or decision making ... flashes here and there but, if I remember correctly, consistency with QB'ing has been a constant critique as far as PG skills go with Lin.
I think Nash would flourish with the younger legs. Not to mention, Kobe initiates the offense the lion's share of the time as well with the starters so Nash is essentially playing the role of Fisher.
Was I mistaken in seeing quite a bit of triangle sets in the first quarter?
Ya, Kobe's presence certainly reduces the effectiveness of Nash.
And as DB said and you astutely pointed out, there was some Triangle. If you ever see the guy up top pass to the wing and then cut to the corner, it's a tell-tale sign that you're watching a Triangle set.
I don't think Lin played particularly well last night, but I'd like to see him and Nash switch roles. Nash was getting absolutely torched, and there's no rim protection in the starting unit. Lin isn't a particularly good defender either, but he's better than Nash, and his footspeed makes a difference. I'd like to see Nash leading the young legs of the 2nd unit, with Davis (please no Sacre) back there protecting him defensively.
Awesome suggestion ... agree. Also agree that Lin didn't play all that well. He doesn't seem as secure with his handles or decision making ... flashes here and there but, if I remember correctly, consistency with QB'ing has been a constant critique as far as PG skills go with Lin.
I think Nash would flourish with the younger legs. Not to mention, Kobe initiates the offense the lion's share of the time as well with the starters so Nash is essentially playing the role of Fisher.
Was I mistaken in seeing quite a bit of triangle sets in the first quarter?
Ya, Kobe's presence certainly reduces the effectiveness of Nash.
And as DB said and you astutely pointed out, there was some Triangle. If you ever see the guy up top pass to the wing and then cut to the corner, it's a tell-tale sign that you're watching a Triangle set.
With Kobe and Nash it's a tradeoff. In the first quarter it was mainly Kobe initiating the offense and getting the dimes for his teammates. In the third quarter when the starters were still in the game, Kobe let Nash take over and he was initiating the offense and getting the dimes. Kobe and Nash work well together imo from what I saw from the game.
I don't think Lin played particularly well last night
I disagree. I thought he played quite well, particularly given that Clarkson and Randle ignored him repeatedly.
Lin looks like he can pass, but he wasn't really able to have that chance in Houston. At least not from the games I saw. And he can get to the lane easily.
I also like what I am seeing from him and Davis as a tandem off the bench.
It's a shame we lost Marshall though. Nash + Lin + Marshall would have been a strong trio at point guard I feel.
I just rewatched the game, and came away happier with Lin. Yes, he overpentrated some, but some of that was guys not moving with him. What impressed me was getting where he wanted to be at will and finding people. Ten assists and one turnover in the first preseason game? I'll take it.
Just watched the game now and also happy with what I saw. His shooting was ugly tonight, but not worried about that. He is an efficent scorer, having the 7th highest true shooting percentage among pgs last year.
Since most of the second unit wasn't on the team last year, I was concerned about how they would work together in their first game. It looked like they were in sync for the most part, better than I thought they would be. So that was good.
And like you said 10 assist and 1 t.o. , I'll take that too. That's a good start after last years unusually low assists totals. But, I attribute that to the "Howard Effect". Contrary to what most people would think, Dwight seems to kill the pg's assist numbers.
Jameer Nelson had a career high in assists after Dwight leaves. Nash has his lowest assist totals in 13 years playing with him. After back to back seasons of 6+ assists, Lin drops to 4 when Dwight joins the team. This is why, I expect Lin to get 6+ assists a game this season, and last night was a good sign.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
