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Lakesh0wtime
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Joined: 28 Mar 2016
Posts: 5390
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 Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:55 pm Post subject: Re: How AD React to the Jokic Challenge? |
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| A Mad Chinaman wrote: |
AD stated that he wanted to be DPOY. Apparent that will not happen since Jokic, Embiid and Giannis are ahead of him |
This is such a reach lol.
Not sure if DPOY was a typo but no way in hell Jokic is better than AD defensively. Jokic doesn’t even belong in the conversation if we’re talking Defensive Player of the Year.
AD, Embiid, and Giannis are on the same level, but AD definitely played better defense this year than both of them. Also, AD should’ve won DPOY in 2020 over Giannis. |
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A Mad Chinaman
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Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 6232
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:05 pm Post subject: Re: How AD React to the Jokic Challenge? |
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| Lakesh0wtime wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | AD stated that he wanted to be DPOY. Apparent that will not happen since Jokic, Embiid and Giannis are ahead of him |
This is such a reach lol.
Not sure if DPOY was a typo but no way in hell Jokic is better than AD defensively. Jokic doesn’t even belong in the conversation if we’re talking Defensive Player of the Year.
AD, Embiid, and Giannis are on the same level, but AD definitely played better defense this year than both of them. Also, AD should’ve won DPOY in 2020 over Giannis. |
Clarification: If AD is hoping to be DPOY, the Nuggets have shown to the entire world that he needs to work on his game to be seriously considered.
If AD uber talented - yes
Is AD critical to the future success of the Lakers - yes
Has AD displayed the ability to dominate and disappear
Is LBJ, not AD, Da Face of the Lakers - Yes
AD was not considered a Top 3 candidate for either DPOY or MVP
How AD reacts to the Jokic Challenge will put on full display if he has what it takes to be the next FACE of the Lakers. |
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J.C. Smith
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 12710
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| Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2023 8:44 am Post subject: |
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Jokic has shot under 50% five times in these playoffs and is shooting 54.5% from the field and 46.9% from three. The five times he shot under 50%?
8-29 (27.6%) in game 5 vs. the Wolves
9-21 (42.9%) in game 1 vs. Suns
9-21 (42.9%) in game 2 vs. Lakers
9-19 (47.4%) in game 3 vs. Lakers
11-24 (45.8%) in game 4 vs. Lakers |
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Halflife
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Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 17535
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| Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2023 8:46 am Post subject: |
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| J.C. Smith wrote: | Jokic has shot under 50% five times in these playoffs and is shooting 54.5% from the field and 46.9% from three. The five times he shot under 50%?
8-29 (27.6%) in game 5 vs. the Wolves
9-21 (42.9%) in game 1 vs. Suns
9-21 (42.9%) in game 2 vs. Lakers
9-19 (47.4%) in game 3 vs. Lakers
11-24 (45.8%) in game 4 vs. Lakers |
we did have the best Defense through our run.
_________________
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Lakesh0wtime
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Joined: 28 Mar 2016
Posts: 5390
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| Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2023 8:48 am Post subject: Re: How AD React to the Jokic Challenge? |
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| A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | Lakesh0wtime wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | AD stated that he wanted to be DPOY. Apparent that will not happen since Jokic, Embiid and Giannis are ahead of him |
This is such a reach lol.
Not sure if DPOY was a typo but no way in hell Jokic is better than AD defensively. Jokic doesn’t even belong in the conversation if we’re talking Defensive Player of the Year.
AD, Embiid, and Giannis are on the same level, but AD definitely played better defense this year than both of them. Also, AD should’ve won DPOY in 2020 over Giannis. |
Clarification: If AD is hoping to be DPOY, the Nuggets have shown to the entire world that he needs to work on his game to be seriously considered.
If AD uber talented - yes
Is AD critical to the future success of the Lakers - yes
Has AD displayed the ability to dominate and disappear
Is LBJ, not AD, Da Face of the Lakers - Yes
AD was not considered a Top 3 candidate for either DPOY or MVP
How AD reacts to the Jokic Challenge will put on full display if he has what it takes to be the next FACE of the Lakers. |
Why are you moving the goalpost? I’m replying to you saying DPOY and saying Jokic is above him.
You have issues about his availability then sure. His availability was the reason why he wasn’t in the running for DPOY.
But defensively he showed up every night and is on par with Giannis and Embiid. Jokic doesn’t even belong in that conversation.
It seems like you’re talking more about offense than defense right now. |
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A Mad Chinaman
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Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 6232
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| Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2023 1:46 pm Post subject: Re: How AD React to the Jokic Challenge? |
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| Lakesh0wtime wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | Lakesh0wtime wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | AD stated that he wanted to be DPOY. Apparent that will not happen since Jokic, Embiid and Giannis are ahead of him |
This is such a reach lol.
Not sure if DPOY was a typo but no way in hell Jokic is better than AD defensively. Jokic doesn’t even belong in the conversation if we’re talking Defensive Player of the Year.
AD, Embiid, and Giannis are on the same level, but AD definitely played better defense this year than both of them. Also, AD should’ve won DPOY in 2020 over Giannis. |
Clarification: If AD is hoping to be DPOY, the Nuggets have shown to the entire world that he needs to work on his game to be seriously considered.
If AD uber talented - yes
Is AD critical to the future success of the Lakers - yes
Has AD displayed the ability to dominate and disappear
Is LBJ, not AD, Da Face of the Lakers - Yes
AD was not considered a Top 3 candidate for either DPOY or MVP
How AD reacts to the Jokic Challenge will put on full display if he has what it takes to be the next FACE of the Lakers. |
Why are you moving the goalpost? I’m replying to you saying DPOY and saying Jokic is above him.
You have issues about his availability then sure. His availability was the reason why he wasn’t in the running for DPOY.
But defensively he showed up every night and is on par with Giannis and Embiid. Jokic doesn’t even belong in that conversation.
It seems like you’re talking more about offense than defense right now. |
Not moving the goal posts, restating/clarifying my intentions/meaning
To clarify
AD is Uber talented
AD is a good to very good defensive player
My POV
This year’s three candidates considered for DPOY & MVP didn’t include AD
Ham had to take AD off Jokic
Rui/LBJ/Tristian were more effective
Rob/Ham’s responsibilities is to win a ring that will go through Jokic’s Nuggets and others. When they meet the Nuggets again, Ham knows that having AD guard Jokic will not work. We have seen Bam be the distributor at the top of the key that allow him to be effective offensively. Given that the consensus of many that AD is (talent-wise) better than Bam . . .
Is AD very good defensively and against many teams, just not against Jokic
My intentions was not to say that Jokic is better than AD defensively
Thoughts |
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A Mad Chinaman
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Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 6232
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| Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2023 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | J.C. Smith wrote: | Jokic has shot under 50% five times in these playoffs and is shooting 54.5% from the field and 46.9% from three. The five times he shot under 50%?
8-29 (27.6%) in game 5 vs. the Wolves
9-21 (42.9%) in game 1 vs. Suns
9-21 (42.9%) in game 2 vs. Lakers
9-19 (47.4%) in game 3 vs. Lakers
11-24 (45.8%) in game 4 vs. Lakers |
we did have the best Defense through our run. |
Our Lakers played defensively very well and achieved a great deal of success, though not a ring, noteworthy considering how we started the season
Props to Rob and Ham |
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LakersRGolden
Star Player
Joined: 13 Jan 2002
Posts: 7977
Location: Lake Forest
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| Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2023 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | J.C. Smith wrote: | Jokic has shot under 50% five times in these playoffs and is shooting 54.5% from the field and 46.9% from three. The five times he shot under 50%?
8-29 (27.6%) in game 5 vs. the Wolves
9-21 (42.9%) in game 1 vs. Suns
9-21 (42.9%) in game 2 vs. Lakers
9-19 (47.4%) in game 3 vs. Lakers
11-24 (45.8%) in game 4 vs. Lakers |
we did have the best Defense through our run. |
Our Lakers played defensively very well and achieved a great deal of success, though not a ring, noteworthy considering how we started the season
Props to Rob and Ham |
Denver's 3%:
Lakers - 40.3% - 4 games
Twolves - 38.9% - 5 games
Suns - 37.0 - 6 games
Heat - 34.5 - 2 games |
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A Mad Chinaman
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Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 6232
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| Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2023 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| J.C. Smith wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | For somebody who STATED that he wanted to be the DPOY was punked by Jokic and it wasn't even close and forced Ham to switch to LBJ and Rui |
I don't think that is an accurate representation of what happened. Jokic obviously has size that can bother AD, that much is certain. But the reasons they went with Rui and Lebron more as the series went on, instead of AD as the primary defender, was so that AD could roam and be a weakside shot blocker. Which he could not while guarding Jokic. Moreover, with Jokic shooting a ridiculous percentage from three, AD would have had to guard him out to the three point line, which pulls him further from the paint.
At the end of the day, nobody on the Lakers was going to be able to stop Jokic one on one. Though they did hold him to under 47.5% shooting in games 2-4. AD wasn't going to be able to shut him down defensively, so having AD on him became a problem. If AD left to help, Jokic killed the rest of the team on the offensive glass. If Jokic played on the perimeter, he nullified AD's shot blocking as a whole.
So given that, they put Rui and Lebron on him, because those two had enough girth that they could keep him from getting great position, and then use AD as a helper. In Jokic's dominant game 1 (when AD also had 40), in the fourth quarter the success they had against him, wasn't because Rui was guarding him, it was AD's double team while Rui was guarding him. |
Understand your position that has many merits
Since Lakers and their fans are only interested in results at the highest level in their pursuit of winning rings, below-listed are my own thoughts on winning rings
Need to recognize that AD is critical to the team’s success and recognition, while identifying his strengths/weaknesses to develop the most effective offensive/defensive schemes
Heat and Nuggets are putting on full display their effectiveness, how they are/will be addressing their respective weaknesses, the mindset/schemes that need to be always present and one’s focus (or culture)
https://apple.news/A7V0dJtjIT7Kn6581_72Bbg
As Bam (who is not as good a players as AD) has had success (albeit one game) that might be because of the Spoelstrs’ defensive schemes had some success - Ham/Rob/Jeannie knows that the road to getting a ring is going through the Nuggets and have to make the needed changes
Would having AD double Jokic off Porter and Gordon (allowing them to have either one have clean shots) an effective strategy? Heat played straight up that limited the Nuggets’ outside shooting.
If AD forces Jokic to be a shooter and limiting opportunities for the other Nuggets, need to block shots are limited
Heat has a short team yet had a gang rebounding mindset to reward stifling defensive pressure - something the Lakers weren’t able to do
In The Future
What will AD add/improve on his game to be more effective against elite players that are in the way of winning rings
How to effectively use AD to defeat the Nuggets, since the road will go through Denver
What upgrades are needed to address AD’s strengths and weaknesses/inconsistencies
AD is strategic to the success of the Lakers’ success
Lets discuss ideas on how the Lakers can win a ring next year |
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A Mad Chinaman
Star Player
Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 6232
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| Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2023 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| LakersRGolden wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | J.C. Smith wrote: | Jokic has shot under 50% five times in these playoffs and is shooting 54.5% from the field and 46.9% from three. The five times he shot under 50%?
8-29 (27.6%) in game 5 vs. the Wolves
9-21 (42.9%) in game 1 vs. Suns
9-21 (42.9%) in game 2 vs. Lakers
9-19 (47.4%) in game 3 vs. Lakers
11-24 (45.8%) in game 4 vs. Lakers |
we did have the best Defense through our run. |
Our Lakers played defensively very well and achieved a great deal of success, though not a ring, noteworthy considering how we started the season
Props to Rob and Ham |
Denver's 3%:
Lakers - 40.3% - 4 games
Twolves - 38.9% - 5 games
Suns - 37.0 - 6 games
Heat - 34.5 - 2 games |
Miami, usually outgunned by the Denver offense, made 17 3-pointers to even the N.B.A. finals at one game apiece
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/05/sports/basketball/heat-nuggets-playoffs-game-2.html
The Heat poured in almost 130 points per 100 possessions -- miles better than the league's No. 1 offense. They hit almost half their 3s and won the turnover battle -- key in limiting Denver's dangerous transition game.
https://global.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/37808573/lowe-expect-suddenly-massive-nuggets-heat-game-3
Will this continue
Stay tuned to the top-rated TV program - Miami Culture!! |
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GOODRICH25
Star Player
Joined: 17 Jun 2017
Posts: 3386
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2023 11:59 pm Post subject: Re: How AD React to the Jokic Challenge? |
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| A Mad Chinaman wrote: | In the past, Bird and Magic Rivalry (Lakers - Celtics) inspired these two great players to obsessively improve their respective “Hall of Fame” / GOAT skills to far greater heights because of how their competitive spirit were driving and and pushing them, how will AD react to the challenge that Jokic presents
Bam has displayed offensive productivity against Jokic (albeit in one game and with different team schemes - Ham factor?).
Ham had to take AD off Jokic since Rui and LBJ (both are not centers) were more effective. Will Bamba and Thompson be on next year’s roster to compensate for AD’s ineffectiveness
AD stated that he wanted to be DPOY. Apparent that will not happen since Jokic, Embiid and Giannis are ahead of him
AD is an uber talented 4/5 who is (when on the court) a possible Top 10 player (behind Jokic, Giannis, Embiid, LBJ, KD, Butler) without the ability to consistently make an impact at crunch time. Likable, affable, well-meaning and worth a big contract - a super max for the max length (hmmmmm). Fully guaranteed till LBJ retires/end of his contract seems best for all sides with a player option if certain levels are achieved
Hope that AD will rise to the Challenge of Jokic plus Embiid and Giannis.
Everybody know that LBJ is The Face and Heart of the Lakers
It is not a sin or fault if one is not obsessed in doing anything and everything possible to improve their game to win rings. It is Rob’s job to place AD in the position for the Lakers to win multiple rings. Very few players have the drive, discipline and commitment to win like Kobe to Bird to Jordan to KG to The Logo to Bill Russell to very others in NBA history |
Defensively?
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GOODRICH25
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Joined: 17 Jun 2017
Posts: 3386
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| Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:02 am Post subject: Re: How AD React to the Jokic Challenge? |
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| A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | Lakesh0wtime wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | AD stated that he wanted to be DPOY. Apparent that will not happen since Jokic, Embiid and Giannis are ahead of him |
This is such a reach lol.
Not sure if DPOY was a typo but no way in hell Jokic is better than AD defensively. Jokic doesn’t even belong in the conversation if we’re talking Defensive Player of the Year.
AD, Embiid, and Giannis are on the same level, but AD definitely played better defense this year than both of them. Also, AD should’ve won DPOY in 2020 over Giannis. |
Clarification: If AD is hoping to be DPOY, the Nuggets have shown to the entire world that he needs to work on his game to be seriously considered.
If AD uber talented - yes
Is AD critical to the future success of the Lakers - yes
Has AD displayed the ability to dominate and disappear
Is LBJ, not AD, Da Face of the Lakers - Yes
AD was not considered a Top 3 candidate for either DPOY or MVP
How AD reacts to the Jokic Challenge will put on full display if he has what it takes to be the next FACE of the Lakers. |
Ok but ADs main strength defensively is rim protection and help defense. Putting him on Jokic takes away that, so even if he does a fine job it's not a good idea. Plus he's our only big and the other Nuggets outsize us, so we are killed on boards when AD is on ball
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A Mad Chinaman
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Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 6232
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| Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2023 9:53 am Post subject: Re: How AD React to the Jokic Challenge? |
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| GOODRICH25 wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | Lakesh0wtime wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | AD stated that he wanted to be DPOY. Apparent that will not happen since Jokic, Embiid and Giannis are ahead of him |
This is such a reach lol.
Not sure if DPOY was a typo but no way in hell Jokic is better than AD defensively. Jokic doesn’t even belong in the conversation if we’re talking Defensive Player of the Year.
AD, Embiid, and Giannis are on the same level, but AD definitely played better defense this year than both of them. Also, AD should’ve won DPOY in 2020 over Giannis. |
Clarification: If AD is hoping to be DPOY, the Nuggets have shown to the entire world that he needs to work on his game to be seriously considered.
If AD uber talented - yes
Is AD critical to the future success of the Lakers - yes
Has AD displayed the ability to dominate and disappear
Is LBJ, not AD, Da Face of the Lakers - Yes
AD was not considered a Top 3 candidate for either DPOY or MVP
How AD reacts to the Jokic Challenge will put on full display if he has what it takes to be the next FACE of the Lakers. |
Ok but ADs main strength defensively is rim protection and help defense. Putting him on Jokic takes away that, so even if he does a fine job it's not a good idea. Plus he's our only big and the other Nuggets outsize us, so we are killed on boards when AD is on ball |
Agree with your general assessment of AD as rim protection.
In the last game, Bam got 17 rebounds while being Jokic's main defender - while understanding that the Heat are even more outsized by the Nuggets.
Acknowledging that KLove is not a rim defender, the Heat has shown various ways (noting that Bam is a lessor version of AD) that can periodically slow down the Nuggets - when the opposing team has the right players and mindset while being given by the HC the effective defensive schemes.
Thoughts |
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LakersRGolden
Star Player
Joined: 13 Jan 2002
Posts: 7977
Location: Lake Forest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2023 9:57 am Post subject: Re: How AD React to the Jokic Challenge? |
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| GOODRICH25 wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | Lakesh0wtime wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | AD stated that he wanted to be DPOY. Apparent that will not happen since Jokic, Embiid and Giannis are ahead of him |
This is such a reach lol.
Not sure if DPOY was a typo but no way in hell Jokic is better than AD defensively. Jokic doesn’t even belong in the conversation if we’re talking Defensive Player of the Year.
AD, Embiid, and Giannis are on the same level, but AD definitely played better defense this year than both of them. Also, AD should’ve won DPOY in 2020 over Giannis. |
Clarification: If AD is hoping to be DPOY, the Nuggets have shown to the entire world that he needs to work on his game to be seriously considered.
If AD uber talented - yes
Is AD critical to the future success of the Lakers - yes
Has AD displayed the ability to dominate and disappear
Is LBJ, not AD, Da Face of the Lakers - Yes
AD was not considered a Top 3 candidate for either DPOY or MVP
How AD reacts to the Jokic Challenge will put on full display if he has what it takes to be the next FACE of the Lakers. |
Ok but ADs main strength defensively is rim protection and help defense. Putting him on Jokic takes away that, so even if he does a fine job it's not a good idea. Plus he's our only big and the other Nuggets outsize us, so we are killed on boards when AD is on ball |
Amazingly, we did better with a big on Joker and a 2nd big behind him than AD on his own. Who knew? |
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A Mad Chinaman
Star Player
Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 6232
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| Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2023 10:03 am Post subject: Re: How AD React to the Jokic Challenge? |
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| LakersRGolden wrote: | | GOODRICH25 wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | Lakesh0wtime wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | AD stated that he wanted to be DPOY. Apparent that will not happen since Jokic, Embiid and Giannis are ahead of him |
This is such a reach lol.
Not sure if DPOY was a typo but no way in hell Jokic is better than AD defensively. Jokic doesn’t even belong in the conversation if we’re talking Defensive Player of the Year.
AD, Embiid, and Giannis are on the same level, but AD definitely played better defense this year than both of them. Also, AD should’ve won DPOY in 2020 over Giannis. |
Clarification: If AD is hoping to be DPOY, the Nuggets have shown to the entire world that he needs to work on his game to be seriously considered.
If AD uber talented - yes
Is AD critical to the future success of the Lakers - yes
Has AD displayed the ability to dominate and disappear
Is LBJ, not AD, Da Face of the Lakers - Yes
AD was not considered a Top 3 candidate for either DPOY or MVP
How AD reacts to the Jokic Challenge will put on full display if he has what it takes to be the next FACE of the Lakers. |
Ok but ADs main strength defensively is rim protection and help defense. Putting him on Jokic takes away that, so even if he does a fine job it's not a good idea. Plus he's our only big and the other Nuggets outsize us, so we are killed on boards when AD is on ball |
Amazingly, we did better with a big on Joker and a 2nd big behind him than AD on his own. Who knew? |
Heat have been trying to blitz, double on the dribble at times and/or force Jokic to be scorer with some success because they are trying to limit his airspace to make it difficult for him to pass to a teammate |
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tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 18216
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| Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2023 2:29 am Post subject: |
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| J.C. Smith wrote: | Jokic has shot under 50% five times in these playoffs and is shooting 54.5% from the field and 46.9% from three. The five times he shot under 50%?
8-29 (27.6%) in game 5 vs. the Wolves
9-21 (42.9%) in game 1 vs. Suns
9-21 (42.9%) in game 2 vs. Lakers
9-19 (47.4%) in game 3 vs. Lakers
11-24 (45.8%) in game 4 vs. Lakers |
Nice callout! |
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Halflife
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Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 17535
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| Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | J.C. Smith wrote: | Jokic has shot under 50% five times in these playoffs and is shooting 54.5% from the field and 46.9% from three. The five times he shot under 50%?
8-29 (27.6%) in game 5 vs. the Wolves
9-21 (42.9%) in game 1 vs. Suns
9-21 (42.9%) in game 2 vs. Lakers
9-19 (47.4%) in game 3 vs. Lakers
11-24 (45.8%) in game 4 vs. Lakers |
Nice callout! |
This just shows its more about Jokic than it was the defense. Especially since only one of the teams he has played were unable to get a single win.
_________________
Kobe.
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tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 18216
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| Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2023 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | J.C. Smith wrote: | Jokic has shot under 50% five times in these playoffs and is shooting 54.5% from the field and 46.9% from three. The five times he shot under 50%?
8-29 (27.6%) in game 5 vs. the Wolves
9-21 (42.9%) in game 1 vs. Suns
9-21 (42.9%) in game 2 vs. Lakers
9-19 (47.4%) in game 3 vs. Lakers
11-24 (45.8%) in game 4 vs. Lakers |
Nice callout! |
One thing to note is that FG% can be artificially lowered if he's getting multiple tip attempts. But his ORBD% was lower against the Lakers (9.3%) than the Suns (12.3%) or the Wolves (13%) -- though that's only a rough proxy for tip attempts. |
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tox
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Posts: 18216
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| Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2023 11:26 am Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: |
This just shows its more about Jokic than it was the defense. Especially since only one of the teams he has played were unable to get a single win. |
I don't know what that means. "It's more about Jokic" -- so the Lakers' defense doesn't matter?
Jokic still cooked us because he's a generational great. But we defended him well enough to be able to win the games. And we could've won 3 of them. If they didn't have Jamal Murray putting up prime Kobe stats (compare Murray's 2023 WCF to Kobe's 2009), and/or the role players weren't scorching hot, who knows what happens. If he puts up stats closer to other playoff series (26/6/5 on 57% TS% or so, as opposed to 32/6/5 on 65% TS%) we probably win
Of course, as I said above, it goes both ways. That's clearly a flaw in the Lakers' defense (including how they defended Jokic), but I'd argue the main issue was the lack of a physical wing defender to put on Murray. Or we do a better job not helping one pass away off guys like KCP etc. |
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RashardA
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Posts: 1381
Location: Santa Monica
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| Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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When people show you who they are, believe them.
AD is 30 years old and been in the league 11 years.
He's lazy and not uber competitive.
Laker fans really have to stop fooling themselves & face reality.
AD is a talented player with little to no drive & is perfectly satisfied with winning the one ring he has in the bubble.
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Everyting negative - pressure, challenges - is all an opportunity for me to rise.
-Kobe Bryant |
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tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 18216
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| Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| lol |
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Halflife
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 17535
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| Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | Halflife wrote: |
This just shows its more about Jokic than it was the defense. Especially since only one of the teams he has played were unable to get a single win. |
I don't know what that means. "It's more about Jokic" -- so the Lakers' defense doesn't matter?
Jokic still cooked us because he's a generational great. But we defended him well enough to be able to win the games. And we could've won 3 of them. If they didn't have Jamal Murray putting up prime Kobe stats (compare Murray's 2023 WCF to Kobe's 2009), and/or the role players weren't scorching hot, who knows what happens. If he puts up stats closer to other playoff series (26/6/5 on 57% TS% or so, as opposed to 32/6/5 on 65% TS%) we probably win
Of course, as I said above, it goes both ways. That's clearly a flaw in the Lakers' defense (including how they defended Jokic), but I'd argue the main issue was the lack of a physical wing defender to put on Murray. Or we do a better job not helping one pass away off guys like KCP etc. |
Jokic occasionally has off nights. I guess the suns D was the reason too. At the end of the day, their most efficient offense of the playoffs came against us IIRC. Our D was a bit overrated. Look at our schedule late after the trade and look at the two teams prior to nuggs. Sure AD/rui had something to do with it but their offense still hummed. Jokic treated us like a speed bump.
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Kobe.
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tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 18216
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| Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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My counter-argument is even if he is defended well, Jokic still gives you MVP impact. An off game is more like his 8-29 game against the Wolves when he otherwise cooked them, whereas he only had one dominant scoring game against us. This is important, because Jokic is the best player in the league and will give you superstar impact day in, day out. If you think anyone is gonna stop Jokic, you're kidding yourself. But even prime LeBron didn't win every single playoff series. You have a better chance of winning if Jokic is shooting 9-21, 9-19 than 34 points on 12-17 (like he did Game 1)
The claim I'm making is that the Lakers lost because not only did Jokic have his normal MVP-level impact, so did Murray. This, I argue, is fundamentally a roster construction issue. The Lakers' best defensive players on the perimeter were either too small (Schroder) or unplayable on offense (Vanderbilt). So Murray just absolutely toasted us. And now you have both MVP Jokic and MVP Murray creating looks for their role players, so they also feasted.
But if we had a better "head of the snake" defense (someone call up Ronnie Price), we might've stymied their offense enough to potentially win the series. This is why I think the Lakers' biggest offseason need if that PoA wing defender who isn't played off the court on offense like Vando.
Which is to go back to the thread title -- AD (and Rui/LeBron) did a decent enough job on Jokic, to give us a fighting chance to win. Unfortunately, DLO choked and our roster wasn't well-suited to defending Murray. |
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MJST
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Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 27014
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| Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| J.C. Smith wrote: | Jokic has shot under 50% five times in these playoffs and is shooting 54.5% from the field and 46.9% from three. The five times he shot under 50%?
8-29 (27.6%) in game 5 vs. the Wolves
9-21 (42.9%) in game 1 vs. Suns
9-21 (42.9%) in game 2 vs. Lakers
9-19 (47.4%) in game 3 vs. Lakers
11-24 (45.8%) in game 4 vs. Lakers |
Jokic struggled the most with us, which is why were in every game till the last possessions. People just seem to try to pretend we were destroyed every game.
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LakersRGolden
Star Player
Joined: 13 Jan 2002
Posts: 7977
Location: Lake Forest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2023 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | J.C. Smith wrote: | Jokic has shot under 50% five times in these playoffs and is shooting 54.5% from the field and 46.9% from three. The five times he shot under 50%?
8-29 (27.6%) in game 5 vs. the Wolves
9-21 (42.9%) in game 1 vs. Suns
9-21 (42.9%) in game 2 vs. Lakers
9-19 (47.4%) in game 3 vs. Lakers
11-24 (45.8%) in game 4 vs. Lakers |
Jokic struggled the most with us, which is why were in every game till the last possessions. People just seem to try to pretend we were destroyed every game. |
It was the perimeter defense that was lacking. Some of that was Jokic playmaking, but our perimeter d was flat out bad. The defensive scheme showed many of the same issues that the Bucks had against the Warriors. |
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