|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
dirka dirka
Franchise Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2005
Posts: 14655
|
 Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| MDMO49 wrote: |
Very good post. I think people think Bynum's speed is on par w/ Shaq's and that is NOT the case. Shaq was incredibly fast coming out, its what separated him from Oliver Miller's of the world. Bynum isn't as big as Shaq but he's definitely not as fast, so forget the Olajuwon moves, or the quick spin moves (but he did do it impressively against the older, fatter shaq).
I wouldn't classify last night's game as impressive for Bynum and he's still a work in progress. But to say he's going to be a great star is just inaccurate. Solid NBA center, 12-15 ppg and 7-9 rebs is a realistic goal (keep in mind that's all we were asking for from Kwame, and Chris Mihm is barely getting those kinds of numbers) |
(keep in mind you're now comparing an 18 year old to a 23 year old and a 26 year old.) oh wait, your right, working out won't improve his strength and conditioning, he's 18, he's maxxed out...he can't possibly improve his game through practice and experience either...might as well trade him.
_________________
| jbjb wrote: | | Echoes from the half empty glass. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
MDMO49
Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 Dec 2004
Posts: 340
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | MDMO49 wrote: | I just hope the Lakers resign him when he starts to show some promise, but I fear they might just overpay for his services...
Kwame getting 8 million? ridiculous.
Curry & Chandler also demanded star big man money for not producing anything near it. |
That will be the key IMO
Will Bynum be a money guy? Meaning he plays first and foremost for the money.
The players - especially big's - that improve over their NBA careers don't play just for money.
These days though - bigmen know their value is really high. They have glimpses of a solid season and they are signed to a 50+ million dollar contract.
Steven Hunter got 30 million. You know Diop is going to get money next summer after his solid defensive play in Dallas.
IMO that really limits their growth and hunger. |
Good points. On initial impression it doesn't appear that Bynum is that kind of guy, but that could just be my laker goggles talking. It could go either way. If he does develop to be somewhat solid he will command a salary that might require a good chunk of that cap space we're saving up for. Part of the drawback of drafting a high schooler, is that you spend time developing them, and when they are close to being ready they can leave.
I wonder if weight will be an issue to either help or hinder his progress. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dirka dirka
Franchise Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2005
Posts: 14655
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| MDMO49 wrote: | | dirka dirka wrote: | | MDMO49 wrote: | I just hope the Lakers resign him when he starts to show some promise, but I fear they might just overpay for his services...
Kwame getting 8 million? ridiculous.
Curry & Chandler also demanded star big man money for not producing anything near it. |
hold the phone, did you just suggest that AB hasn't show some promise already??   |
Is he even getting regular NBA minutes?
I guess by your logic Von Wafer is showing promise...
Note to self: Don't read posts from Dirka Dirka |
my logic? coming from one who obviously has a lack of logical reasoning skills I just don't know how to respond to you with more clarity. OF COURSE he isn't getting regular NBA minutes, he's a raw, physically immature 18 year old KID! How many rookies has Phil given big minutes too in his coaching career? Better yet, how many HIGH SCHOOL rookies has Phil given big minutes too? You're arguement gets weaker by the minute, quit while you're behind.
_________________
| jbjb wrote: | | Echoes from the half empty glass. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike@LG
Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
^Let's put it this way.
Emeka Okafor is an elitely athletic PF and elitely skilled. At the beginning of the season, Olajuwon was showing him post moves.
Okafor was tripping over himself.
It's not that easy.
_________________
Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MDMO49
Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 Dec 2004
Posts: 340
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| dirka dirka wrote: | | MDMO49 wrote: |
Very good post. I think people think Bynum's speed is on par w/ Shaq's and that is NOT the case. Shaq was incredibly fast coming out, its what separated him from Oliver Miller's of the world. Bynum isn't as big as Shaq but he's definitely not as fast, so forget the Olajuwon moves, or the quick spin moves (but he did do it impressively against the older, fatter shaq).
I wouldn't classify last night's game as impressive for Bynum and he's still a work in progress. But to say he's going to be a great star is just inaccurate. Solid NBA center, 12-15 ppg and 7-9 rebs is a realistic goal (keep in mind that's all we were asking for from Kwame, and Chris Mihm is barely getting those kinds of numbers) |
(keep in mind you're now comparing an 18 year old to a 23 year old and a 26 year old.) oh wait, your right, working out won't improve his strength and conditioning, he's 18, he's maxxed out...he can't possibly improve his game through practice and experience either...might as well trade him. |
Are you arguing with yourself? I never said Bynum won't improve.
You state that Bynum needs time, and then when I say in that time when he starts to show something you mock it? Did you take argumentative writing in college?
I don't think so. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MDMO49
Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 Dec 2004
Posts: 340
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| dirka dirka wrote: | | MDMO49 wrote: | | dirka dirka wrote: | | MDMO49 wrote: | I just hope the Lakers resign him when he starts to show some promise, but I fear they might just overpay for his services...
Kwame getting 8 million? ridiculous.
Curry & Chandler also demanded star big man money for not producing anything near it. |
hold the phone, did you just suggest that AB hasn't show some promise already?? |
Is he even getting regular NBA minutes?
I guess by your logic Von Wafer is showing promise...
Note to self: Don't read posts from Dirka Dirka |
my logic? coming from one who obviously has a lack of logical reasoning skills I just don't know how to respond to you with more clarity. OF COURSE he isn't getting regular NBA minutes, he's a raw, physically immature 18 year old KID! How many rookies has Phil given big minutes too in his coaching career? Better yet, how many HIGH SCHOOL rookies has Phil given big minutes too? You're arguement gets weaker by the minute, quit while you're behind. |
Mitch Kupchak is that you? I think it is. After this much time in the NBA you think Bynum has shown enough promise to resign him to major contract? My god, the Lakers are in trouble. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
VanK
Sixth Man
Joined: 28 Jun 2005
Posts: 73
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| dirka dirka wrote: |
lmao, now you you're comparing AB to Howard who was a year older than AB coming into the NBA and also got to play for a terrible team while averaging over 30 minutes per contest. Its quite obvious AB has a talent for rebounding the ball in his limited minutes (in fact if someone can dig up his rebounding per minute numbers compared to howard in his rookie year I'd wager AB is right on track).
Give AB 30 plus minutes a game and lets just see how many rebounds he'll get before we get all nostradumb on him. |
A year older is not that much considering they both came straight out of HS. Howard was a 12/10 guy in his rookie year, while Lakers' big men average 6/6 (Kwame) and 11/7 (Mihm) at roughly the same minutes as Howard did his job last year. Look at those numbers. Kwame is giving this team less than 60% of DH's production. Do you really believe Phil wouldn't play Andrew just because of his youth if he thought AB is capable of giving that numbers? The ones you have shown Bynum put in limited minutes and they normaly lie. So what if he put 16 points in garbage time against one of the worst teams in the League? That doesn't mean anything.
OK, let we say you're right. Howard came into this league in shape and with more real-game experience than Bynum. But that's not something that works for AB, it just tells you that he is (was) behind the learning curve. Apart of the good frame, a nice wingspan and a solid blocking instincts (Hollinger's "tools") he didn't show us much. Sure, he reportedly has a good work ethic which is seen by his improvement in footwork and a developing hook shot, but you guys are seriously overrating this kid. Like Mike said, the chances for him becoming a great centre in this league are miniscular. Those who did become that, had much better psyhical predispositions than Bynum. And this kid is so raw that it isn't even funny. Tim Duncan, the man some of you use him as Bynum's comparison, was a force in his freshman season at Wake Forrest. AB would be probably riding the bench at uConn, burried behind Boone and Armstrong.
If you're a fan of a team, that doesn't mean you should be blind. I'm not pessimistic, I'm realistic. I just don't want to be dissapointed. Right now I hope and believe that Bynum will turn into a solid complementary player, a legit starting centre in this league and that's a lot. A sort of rich man's Brendan Haywood (better hands, more heart, more polished). I just don't see 'franchise' potential in him. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dirka dirka
Franchise Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2005
Posts: 14655
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| MDMO49 wrote: | | dirka dirka wrote: | | MDMO49 wrote: |
Very good post. I think people think Bynum's speed is on par w/ Shaq's and that is NOT the case. Shaq was incredibly fast coming out, its what separated him from Oliver Miller's of the world. Bynum isn't as big as Shaq but he's definitely not as fast, so forget the Olajuwon moves, or the quick spin moves (but he did do it impressively against the older, fatter shaq).
I wouldn't classify last night's game as impressive for Bynum and he's still a work in progress. But to say he's going to be a great star is just inaccurate. Solid NBA center, 12-15 ppg and 7-9 rebs is a realistic goal (keep in mind that's all we were asking for from Kwame, and Chris Mihm is barely getting those kinds of numbers) |
(keep in mind you're now comparing an 18 year old to a 23 year old and a 26 year old.) oh wait, your right, working out won't improve his strength and conditioning, he's 18, he's maxxed out...he can't possibly improve his game through practice and experience either...might as well trade him. |
Are you arguing with yourself? I never said Bynum won't improve.
You state that Bynum needs time, and then when I say in that time when he starts to show something you mock it? Did you take argumentative writing in college?
I don't think so. |
No sir, I'm mocking you for suggesting that 18 year olds that haven't played much organized basketball will never be elite players, like you have some kind of crystal ball. Maybe we need to fire Mitch and hire you, cleary you are an expert talent evaluator and would make the perfect draft every time!
_________________
| jbjb wrote: | | Echoes from the half empty glass. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
angel
Franchise Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 14226
Location: city of angels
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Let's look at January and February. Bynum has played 73 minutes. He is 15 of 27 shooting from the field. He has 32 points, 26 rebounds and 3 assists Normalized to 30mpg, he would have 13.1ppg, 10.6rpg, and 1.2apg. Bynum is a moving target, because he didn't have good coaching in H.S. Bynum is only 18 years old, and plays center, not a PF. Center numbers are harder to achieve.
Dwight Howard at age 19 averaged 12.0ppg, 10.0rpg, and 0.9apg in 32.6mpg. Bynum may exceed Howard's PF numbers when he's 19 years old. Bynum won't be 19 years old until next season.
_________________
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness. Only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that." ~~Martin Luther King Jr.~~ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dirka dirka
Franchise Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2005
Posts: 14655
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| MDMO49 wrote: | | dirka dirka wrote: | | MDMO49 wrote: | | dirka dirka wrote: | | MDMO49 wrote: | I just hope the Lakers resign him when he starts to show some promise, but I fear they might just overpay for his services...
Kwame getting 8 million? ridiculous.
Curry & Chandler also demanded star big man money for not producing anything near it. |
hold the phone, did you just suggest that AB hasn't show some promise already?? |
Is he even getting regular NBA minutes?
I guess by your logic Von Wafer is showing promise...
Note to self: Don't read posts from Dirka Dirka |
my logic? coming from one who obviously has a lack of logical reasoning skills I just don't know how to respond to you with more clarity. OF COURSE he isn't getting regular NBA minutes, he's a raw, physically immature 18 year old KID! How many rookies has Phil given big minutes too in his coaching career? Better yet, how many HIGH SCHOOL rookies has Phil given big minutes too? You're arguement gets weaker by the minute, quit while you're behind. |
Mitch Kupchak is that you? I think it is. After this much time in the NBA you think Bynum has shown enough promise to resign him to major contract? My god, the Lakers are in trouble. |
I thought you weren't reading my posts? Hmm, anywho, where did I ever say Mitch should resign him to a major contract? I've only ever been saying that AB is not physically ready for the NBA and that he needs more experience and time before people like you start saying that he'll never be an elite level center. How the hell do you know?
Sure, he may never get there, heck he could destroy his knees and be finished for good, but suggesting that he doesn't have that potential is laughable.
_________________
| jbjb wrote: | | Echoes from the half empty glass. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MDMO49
Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 Dec 2004
Posts: 340
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
dirka: You should quit. It's clear you are either Bynum's relative, or completely unable to assess the ability of NBA players. Maybe you wanted Bynum to be something he isn't. Maybe you think (inaccurately) that Bynum will be better than Kareem & Shaq combined.
Bynum will definitely improve as a player, every player in the league including BUSTS improve after their first year. Your argument was that he'll make the biggest leap in the 2nd or 3rd year b/c he's CLEARLY behind players like Amare & Dwight Howard. Those players have the "potential" to be in the Olajuwon, Ewing, DRob class.
To make that leap about Bynum is absurd, b/c you have NOTHING to go on. He has roughly very few basketball skills. That's why he isn't playing. He gets pushed around too much, he gets blocked by guys smaller than him, he's a little slower on the court. Phil will let him learn the game, and maybe in 2 years he can push Mihm for a starting job. Heck he BETTER be starting in the 2007-2008 season.
Bynum isn't a bust, but he isn't a superstar either. Can he end up being either? Sure. But not likely, either way. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike@LG
Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
^Once again, not taking into consideration conditioning, foul trouble, and level of opponent.
_________________
Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dirka dirka
Franchise Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2005
Posts: 14655
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| MDMO49 wrote: | dirka: You should quit. It's clear you are either Bynum's relative, or completely unable to assess the ability of NBA players. Maybe you wanted Bynum to be something he isn't. Maybe you think (inaccurately) that Bynum will be better than Kareem & Shaq combined.
Bynum will definitely improve as a player, every player in the league including BUSTS improve after their first year. Your argument was that he'll make the biggest leap in the 2nd or 3rd year b/c he's CLEARLY behind players like Amare & Dwight Howard. Those players have the "potential" to be in the Olajuwon, Ewing, DRob class.
To make that leap about Bynum is absurd, b/c you have NOTHING to go on. He has roughly very few basketball skills. That's why he isn't playing. He gets pushed around too much, he gets blocked by guys smaller than him, he's a little slower on the court. Phil will let him learn the game, and maybe in 2 years he can push Mihm for a starting job. Heck he BETTER be starting in the 2007-2008 season.
Bynum isn't a bust, but he isn't a superstar either. Can he end up being either? Sure. But not likely, either way. |
Fine, I'll quit just as soon as you explain how your arguement doesn't fall completely apart when you examine Jermaine O'neals career...go ahead, I'm waiting...
_________________
| jbjb wrote: | | Echoes from the half empty glass. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MDMO49
Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 Dec 2004
Posts: 340
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| dirka dirka wrote: | | MDMO49 wrote: | | dirka dirka wrote: | | MDMO49 wrote: | | dirka dirka wrote: | | MDMO49 wrote: | I just hope the Lakers resign him when he starts to show some promise, but I fear they might just overpay for his services...
Kwame getting 8 million? ridiculous.
Curry & Chandler also demanded star big man money for not producing anything near it. |
hold the phone, did you just suggest that AB hasn't show some promise already?? |
Is he even getting regular NBA minutes?
I guess by your logic Von Wafer is showing promise...
Note to self: Don't read posts from Dirka Dirka |
my logic? coming from one who obviously has a lack of logical reasoning skills I just don't know how to respond to you with more clarity. OF COURSE he isn't getting regular NBA minutes, he's a raw, physically immature 18 year old KID! How many rookies has Phil given big minutes too in his coaching career? Better yet, how many HIGH SCHOOL rookies has Phil given big minutes too? You're arguement gets weaker by the minute, quit while you're behind. |
Mitch Kupchak is that you? I think it is. After this much time in the NBA you think Bynum has shown enough promise to resign him to major contract? My god, the Lakers are in trouble. |
I thought you weren't reading my posts? Hmm, anywho, where did I ever say Mitch should resign him to a major contract? I've only ever been saying that AB is not physically ready for the NBA and that he needs more experience and time before people like you start saying that he'll never be an elite level center. How the hell do you know?
Sure, he may never get there, heck he could destroy his knees and be finished for good, but suggesting that he doesn't have that potential is laughable. |
I suggest you dump the word potential when it comes to these things. That's why so many high schoolers are taken in the first place. The problem with potential is that you can stamp that to every player... it loses its value. Kwame Brown has potential. Sasha Vujacic has potential. Luke Walton has potential. Mike Penberthy had potential.
What makes you an excellent talent evaluator is determining which potential will pan out. My grandmother has potential... ok maybe not much of it.
Brian Shaw has potential to be a good NBA coach, but he hasn't done jack squat so far...
Let's focus on PRODUCTION not POTENTIAL. The NBA didn't send Bynum, Turiaf, or Wafer to the NBA rookie game. Maybe you should petition them, show some #'s per 48 minutes and get Bynum on the roster.
Maybe Darko's potential can be discussed in another thread. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
angel
Franchise Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 14226
Location: city of angels
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Pete Newell and Bertka are excellent talent evaluators. They seem to think Bynum has great potential. We won't know for sure how much is there until it develops more. An 18 year old who can play center in the NBA is a freak of nature. Practically all of the centers are drafted and play PF until they develop the bulk to play center.
_________________
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness. Only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that." ~~Martin Luther King Jr.~~ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike@LG
Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 2:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I believe Pete Newell is. I disagree with Bill Bertka, and that's been proven with the drafts from 2000-2004.
_________________
Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fan0Bynum17
Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Posts: 15436
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 2:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bynum will be the next david robinson. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
K8KillerInstinct
Starting Rotation
Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 434
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 3:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| MDMO49 wrote: | | Zhengi wrote: | | ^^ Just a better Chris Mihm? No way, Bynum's potential is higher than that. The kid is definitely raw right now, but he's showing that he has a good learning curve and desire to hone his skills. Once he gets more experienced, we can safely say that he'd be a whole lot better than Mihm. |
Mihm was taken 7th overall, Bynum 10th. Not to say that draft position determines how good you are, but great players play that way immediately. Bynum has shown NOTHING to warrant that he'll be far superior to Chris Mihm. He has a bigger overall body but he's less athletic than Mihm, and Bynum plays extremely slow. He's NOT going to develop speed in the next 2-3 years, that's how he plays. Footwork, fundamentals, and strength will improve his overall game.
There's NO way Bynum will be anywhere NEAR Hakeem Olajuwon. Or Ewing, or DRob... |
First of all, the draft picks doesnt mean crap in this league. You could be the first pick overall and suck & you could be the last pick and suck as well. There is a lot luck involved. Seriously, look at Manu, Arenas and other second rounder making a great impact. At the same time a lot first rounder are merely decent to bad players.
You never know man, Andrew could be something special or (vice versa). But there is a chance that Andrew could be among the elites some day. But you cant say, "There's NO way Bynum will be anywhere NEAR Hakeem Olajuwon. Or Ewing, or DRob." Thats just crazy to say something like that.
PS: DRob, Ewing are overrated, they are not among the greatests
_________________
Be nice to Mitch and everyone in this planet. Never do evil or commit any act that might hurt others' feelings. We must all become environmentalists.
***Beware of Sarcasm*** |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LA_Lakers_Rule
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 19482
Location: The X-Files
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 3:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
TG711 wrote:
| Quote: |
I don't disagree that most great players play great right away. I'm not over-hyping Bynum. I said 80% of J-O's offsensive output. That's 17 PPG. Overhype is saying 25 and 12. 17 and 10, with almost 2 bpg, is optimistic, but not over-hype.
Projecting 7rpg for Bynum is UNDER-hype. Just not realistic. Given minutes, he will average 10 RPG. He has askill for getting to the ball. It's his offensive game that is in question. But 7 RPG... how many did he have last night, in how many minutes?
It's easy to ovver-hype his offensive potential. But boards and defense? The sky is the limit.
|
I agree 17-10 is minumum as far as I'm concnerned.
The key here is at what point are we talking about. In 2-4 years or say 5-6 years. Better yet are we talking about approaching prime years in 8-9 years. This is simply how young this kid is.
Remember in 5-6 years, Bynum will be 22 or 23, typical rookie age in the NBA for the majority of players.
I'd say that in 2-4 years maybe 11-8, in 5-6 years maybe the 17-10 you speak of, but I really believe that Bynum can do even better.
I'd say maybe 22-12 in his prime years in say 8-9 years might sound like "hype" to some, but considering his progress, size and youth all of the tools are there, imo, to accomplish that.
I could even see the kid having a few peak years of 25-13, maybe, who's to say.
Then again this is all speculating that he reaches his full potential. Maybe Bynum won't do this and will become a 15-8 player throughout his career.
My opinion is that he's got to much heart, drive, talent, size and potential to just become a 15-8 player. It is much more likely that as a starter averaging 40+ minutes in his prime he will do much better than this.
Fact is Bynums just a baby and we no very little as to what he can and will do. His potential can range between 12-7 all the way to say 25-14, imo. Keeping in mind that he has shown even more promise on the defensive so far and he has had so little experience to this point I don't think it is "hype" at all to speculate that is is at least "possible" that Bynum could reach the level of play of players like J. Oneal or B. Wallace.[
Of course anything better than 20-10 with a defensive presence ARE ALL-STAR STATS, whether it is "hype" or not, only time will tell, but I contend it is not out of the realm of possibility by no means.
_________________
Rule = win titles  
Good judgment comes from experience and a lot of that comes from bad judgment. - Will Rogers ...  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LA_Lakers_Rule
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 19482
Location: The X-Files
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 3:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Another point in defense of those who tend to be "over hyping" Andrew. Remember that shooting is the easiest thing to learn. Rebounding and defense have as much to do with "heart" as anything else.
An example would be the perenial all-star Karl Malone, who was not a good shooter at all, but could play defense and board well. He practiced and learned to shoot well, placing him in the hall of fame for sure, buy just putting in the effort.
Will Bynum put in the effort, all signs point to the fact that he will. Can he shoot like Malone of course not, he is a different type player. That is not the point here.
What is the point is that Bynum can improve his offensive game with practice and perserverance, he already has reasonably good skills at just barely 18 on the defensive end. Keep in mind he is playing at the NBA level at the youngest age of any player in the history of the game.
_________________
Rule = win titles
Good judgment comes from experience and a lot of that comes from bad judgment. - Will Rogers ... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mjr. Pwnage
Starting Rotation
Joined: 11 Feb 2003
Posts: 472
Location: La Tierra De Los Gauchos
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 3:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| LA_Lakers_Rule wrote: | TG711 wrote:
| Quote: |
I don't disagree that most great players play great right away. I'm not over-hyping Bynum. I said 80% of J-O's offsensive output. That's 17 PPG. Overhype is saying 25 and 12. 17 and 10, with almost 2 bpg, is optimistic, but not over-hype.
Projecting 7rpg for Bynum is UNDER-hype. Just not realistic. Given minutes, he will average 10 RPG. He has askill for getting to the ball. It's his offensive game that is in question. But 7 RPG... how many did he have last night, in how many minutes?
It's easy to ovver-hype his offensive potential. But boards and defense? The sky is the limit.
|
I agree 17-10 is minumum as far as I'm concnerned.
The key here is at what point are we talking about. In 2-4 years or say 5-6 years. Better yet are we talking about approaching prime years in 8-9 years. This is simply how young this kid is.
Remember in 5-6 years, Bynum will be 22 or 23, typical rookie age in the NBA for the majority of players.
I'd say that in 2-4 years maybe 11-8, in 5-6 years maybe the 17-10 you speak of, but I really believe that Bynum can do even better.
I'd say maybe 22-12 in his prime years in say 8-9 years might sound like "hype" to some, but considering his progress, size and youth all of the tools are there, imo, to accomplish that.
I could even see the kid having a few peak years of 25-13, maybe, who's to say.
Then again this is all speculating that he reaches his full potential. Maybe Bynum won't do this and will become a 15-8 player throughout his career.
My opinion is that he's got to much heart, drive, talent, size and potential to just become a 15-8 player. It is much more likely that as a starter averaging 40+ minutes in his prime he will do much better than this.
Fact is Bynums just a baby and we no very little as to what he can and will do. His potential can range between 12-7 all the way to say 25-14, imo. Keeping in mind that he has shown even more promise on the defensive so far and he has had so little experience to this point I don't think it is "hype" at all to speculate that is is at least "possible" that Bynum could reach the level of play of players like J. Oneal or B. Wallace.[
Of course anything better than 20-10 with a defensive presence ARE ALL-STAR STATS, whether it is "hype" or not, only time will tell, but I contend it is not out of the realm of possibility by no means. |
Agree. Very well said.
An optimistic outlook, yet realistic, would be 15 and 10. Not pipe. I don't think he's Hakeem, or David Robinson. But in 4-5 years, maybe 15-10 Right around when it's time to extend him. I hope for 5 and 5 next year. Optimistic, yes. Pipe? No.
_________________
You tryin' to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ducasse
Star Player
Joined: 05 Sep 2002
Posts: 8450
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 4:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Bynum definately has 20/10 potential. Someone would have to be blind to not see the potential. Whether he gets there depends on how hard he is willing to work. He won't be able to coast on his athleticism like Shaq did but he's athletic enough to be very, very good if he works hard.
Last edited by ducasse on Sun Feb 12, 2006 4:35 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ducasse
Star Player
Joined: 05 Sep 2002
Posts: 8450
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 4:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| MDMO49 wrote: |
Bynum isn't a bust, but he isn't a superstar either. Can he end up being either? Sure. But not likely, either way. |
You are assessing that Bynum isn't a bust or a superstar? He's 18 years old! Think about how ridiculous that statement is. It's absolutely impossible to make that assessment at 18 years old.
Last edited by ducasse on Sun Feb 12, 2006 4:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LakerJosh
Starting Rotation
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 995
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 4:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| MDMO49 wrote: | | Zhengi wrote: | | ^^ Just a better Chris Mihm? No way, Bynum's potential is higher than that. The kid is definitely raw right now, but he's showing that he has a good learning curve and desire to hone his skills. Once he gets more experienced, we can safely say that he'd be a whole lot better than Mihm. |
Mihm was taken 7th overall, Bynum 10th. Not to say that draft position determines how good you are, but great players play that way immediately. Bynum has shown NOTHING to warrant that he'll be far superior to Chris Mihm. He has a bigger overall body but he's less athletic than Mihm, and Bynum plays extremely slow. He's NOT going to develop speed in the next 2-3 years, that's how he plays. Footwork, fundamentals, and strength will improve his overall game.
There's NO way Bynum will be anywhere NEAR Hakeem Olajuwon. Or Ewing, or DRob... |
Last time I checked Larry bird wasn't very fast. It has to do with skill and heart my friend. He has the tools to be great, all he needs is heart and work ethic which will = skill. I think people are saying he will be this or that much to early. Let the kid develop, and we'll see where he goes. In the meantime I suppose it is fun to speculate. My two cents. He will be a very very solid center and hopefully a star. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ducasse
Star Player
Joined: 05 Sep 2002
Posts: 8450
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 4:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Zhengi wrote: |
There's NO way Bynum will be anywhere NEAR Hakeem Olajuwon. Or Ewing, or DRob... |
There's no way you can make that claim when he is only 18 years old. He is not an athletic freak but neither is Duncan and Duncan will go down as better than Ewing and Drob and probably Hakeem as well. Duncan has already accomplished more than Hakeem. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
