|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
dcarter4kobe
Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 17811
|
 Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 8:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'm just thinking about the spacing a AD/LeBron/Mitchell/DLo would have.
Mitchell/Vando would be a major upgrade over Rui/Reaves.
Would hopefully have healthy Vincent at POA who's elite. Christie playing a bigger role.
Big part of why We sucked on D most of the year b/c we kept putting Prince in positions to fail defending quicker guys.
_________________
"He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
nomoreshaq
Star Player
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 5190
|
| Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 8:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
Tier 1 Trade Target: Lauri, Spida
Tier 2 Trade Target: DJM, Mikal Bridges
Westbrook Tier Targets: Trae Young, Darius Garland |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JUST-MING
Retired Number
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 44211
|
| Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 8:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Hanging from Rafters wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | levon wrote: | | No to Garland. Like absolutely not. Rather get DLo |
Not only is DLO better than Garland. Austin Reaves is too. |
Dangelo Russell and Austin Reaves both had better seasons than Darius Garland. |
Not statistically, but I get that some evaluations are done using other criteria. Stats don’t tell the whole story, only part of it.
Dlo and Garland are about even except for 3pt shooting advantage Dlo vs defense advantage Garland. There isn’t a way however to spin Reaves as better than Garland tho since Garland averaged more points, better 3pt shooting, more assists, and more steals, as well as being a better defender. Reaves does average more rebounds but it’s not enough to make up for all the other things in which Garland performed better.
I’m not saying I prefer Garland, I’d keep AR for such a small incremental upgrade with a much lower cost for AR, but based on the statistics, Garland looks to indisputably have had a better season than AR and about the same as Dlo. |
Yes. Statistically.
Dangelo Russell — #19 point guard — 18.2 efficiency
Austin Reaves — #15 shooting guard — 18.3 efficiency
Darius Garland — #24 point guard — 16.8 efficiency
Donovan Mitchell — #2 shooting guard — 25.8 efficiency |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
manlisten
Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2004
Posts: 3257
|
| Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 9:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
| JUST-MING wrote: | | Hanging from Rafters wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | levon wrote: | | No to Garland. Like absolutely not. Rather get DLo |
Not only is DLO better than Garland. Austin Reaves is too. |
Dangelo Russell and Austin Reaves both had better seasons than Darius Garland. |
Not statistically, but I get that some evaluations are done using other criteria. Stats don’t tell the whole story, only part of it.
Dlo and Garland are about even except for 3pt shooting advantage Dlo vs defense advantage Garland. There isn’t a way however to spin Reaves as better than Garland tho since Garland averaged more points, better 3pt shooting, more assists, and more steals, as well as being a better defender. Reaves does average more rebounds but it’s not enough to make up for all the other things in which Garland performed better.
I’m not saying I prefer Garland, I’d keep AR for such a small incremental upgrade with a much lower cost for AR, but based on the statistics, Garland looks to indisputably have had a better season than AR and about the same as Dlo. |
Yes. Statistically.
Dangelo Russell — #19 point guard — 18.2 efficiency
Austin Reaves — #15 shooting guard — 18.3 efficiency
Darius Garland — #24 point guard — 16.8 efficiency
Donovan Mitchell — #2 shooting guard — 25.8 efficiency |
Based on this, LeBron/AD/Mitchell is an insane trio.
_________________
It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dr. Laker
Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17180
|
| Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 9:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
| 2019 wrote: | | Bron2AD wrote: | | Inverse wrote: | DLO
Donovan Mitchell
Vando
LBJ
AD
That has to be the top 3 starting 5 in the league assuming lebron doesnt fall off too hard. |
That backcourt is getting torched every night |
Yup.. I don't love it either. D'lo should be flipped into better defensive & role player either this summer or by deadline. |
Spida is a great defender.
_________________
On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns". |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Halflife
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 17366
|
| Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 9:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
If your spida where would you go if options aplenty.
Lakers- toxic, drama, player picked coaches . Epic brand. Great franchise. West is a beast
Heat- some talent issues but great coach and in east
Nyk- you would have to submit to Brunson. Great teammates. Gnarly coach
Nets- your team, some talent. East. Ownership seems sketchy
_________________
Kobe.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Clw9scopegx/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mad55557777
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 23691
|
| Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 9:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
| JUST-MING wrote: | | Hanging from Rafters wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | levon wrote: | | No to Garland. Like absolutely not. Rather get DLo |
Not only is DLO better than Garland. Austin Reaves is too. |
Dangelo Russell and Austin Reaves both had better seasons than Darius Garland. |
Not statistically, but I get that some evaluations are done using other criteria. Stats don’t tell the whole story, only part of it.
Dlo and Garland are about even except for 3pt shooting advantage Dlo vs defense advantage Garland. There isn’t a way however to spin Reaves as better than Garland tho since Garland averaged more points, better 3pt shooting, more assists, and more steals, as well as being a better defender. Reaves does average more rebounds but it’s not enough to make up for all the other things in which Garland performed better.
I’m not saying I prefer Garland, I’d keep AR for such a small incremental upgrade with a much lower cost for AR, but based on the statistics, Garland looks to indisputably have had a better season than AR and about the same as Dlo. |
Yes. Statistically.
Dangelo Russell — #19 point guard — 18.2 efficiency
Austin Reaves — #15 shooting guard — 18.3 efficiency
Darius Garland — #24 point guard — 16.8 efficiency
Donovan Mitchell — #2 shooting guard — 25.8 efficiency |
Trae young is also #6 PG, so as you can see, there is a huge gap between real stars and good players. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 18083
|
| Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 9:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
| dcarter4kobe wrote: | | tox wrote: | So Mitchell is making $35M, Rui/AR/JHS are making about $33M. We're at $178M without Prince, Christie, Dinwiddie, which includes Russell's player option which he might decline. The second apron is $190M -- iiuc that's a hard cap?
Let's assume a Rui/AR/JHS + picks package works for Mitchell. The Lakers would have:
AD, LeBron, Mitchell
Vincent, Vanderbilt
Wood, Hayes, Reddish
If Russell opts out they could either re-sign him, or re-sign Prince + Christie right? Is Dinwiddie gonna make anything or will he return for cheap?
Mitchell/ Christie/ Vanderbilt/ James/ Davis
Vincent/ Reddish or vet min/ Prince/ vet min/ Wood or Hayes
It's not a perfect roster but it strikes me as significantly better than this year's, even though we're basically trading Russell/ Reaves/ Rui for Mitchell? I think more minutes to offensively limited guys like Christie and Vanderbilt in order to have a major upgrade at the guard slot seems like a worthwhile tradeoff. Having Gabe & Taurean on the bench gives you two legitimate bench players (assuming Gabe gets back his form especially as he gets more primary ballhandler reps) and really means in the playoffs we're just missing a big for a solid 8 man rotation |
It's not a hard cap. We would be able to resign DLO, Prince, Christie all if we want. We would just be over the 2nd apron and not be able sign buy out guys, trade multiple guys in a trade etc. |
That would be nice then, though it'd make it really hard to get front court depth after losing Rui in this hypothetical trade |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
manlisten
Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2004
Posts: 3257
|
| Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 9:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
Wood averaged 16 ppg off the bench with Dallas. He would make up for the offense you lose from Rui. There was a log jam in the frontcourt so this will give more opportunity for him and Vando.
_________________
It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
levon
Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Oct 2016
Posts: 10897
|
| Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 9:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
| tox wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | | tox wrote: | So Mitchell is making $35M, Rui/AR/JHS are making about $33M. We're at $178M without Prince, Christie, Dinwiddie, which includes Russell's player option which he might decline. The second apron is $190M -- iiuc that's a hard cap?
Let's assume a Rui/AR/JHS + picks package works for Mitchell. The Lakers would have:
AD, LeBron, Mitchell
Vincent, Vanderbilt
Wood, Hayes, Reddish
If Russell opts out they could either re-sign him, or re-sign Prince + Christie right? Is Dinwiddie gonna make anything or will he return for cheap?
Mitchell/ Christie/ Vanderbilt/ James/ Davis
Vincent/ Reddish or vet min/ Prince/ vet min/ Wood or Hayes
It's not a perfect roster but it strikes me as significantly better than this year's, even though we're basically trading Russell/ Reaves/ Rui for Mitchell? I think more minutes to offensively limited guys like Christie and Vanderbilt in order to have a major upgrade at the guard slot seems like a worthwhile tradeoff. Having Gabe & Taurean on the bench gives you two legitimate bench players (assuming Gabe gets back his form especially as he gets more primary ballhandler reps) and really means in the playoffs we're just missing a big for a solid 8 man rotation |
It's not a hard cap. We would be able to resign DLO, Prince, Christie all if we want. We would just be over the 2nd apron and not be able sign buy out guys, trade multiple guys in a trade etc. |
That would be nice then, though it'd make it really hard to get front court depth after losing Rui in this hypothetical trade |
Yeah, depth is going to be nonexistent. We're going to be a better fitting version of the Suns. Good team, but not enough to be a true contender. I thought building with three stars was hard before, but now you really have to make sure that third guy is your missing piece in more ways than one. Mitchell is another dynamic scorer, but he doesn't solve multiple core problems for this team. The problems he creates with his contract may create more problems than he solves.
Counterargument is that this is an age of parity where anyone has a shot, so it only takes one move. It'll be Denver's third straight year of going deep into the playoffs next year. You can sell yourself on the three-star build for the next two seasons if you really try. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
manlisten
Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2004
Posts: 3257
|
| Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 10:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
| levon wrote: |
Yeah, depth is going to be nonexistent. We're going to be a better fitting version of the Suns. Good team, but not enough to be a true contender. |
What depth would the Lakers be losing?
_________________
It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
levon
Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Oct 2016
Posts: 10897
|
| Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 10:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
| manlisten wrote: | | levon wrote: |
Yeah, depth is going to be nonexistent. We're going to be a better fitting version of the Suns. Good team, but not enough to be a true contender. |
What depth would the Lakers be losing? |
Rui and AR at the very least. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
manlisten
Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2004
Posts: 3257
|
| Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 10:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| levon wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | levon wrote: |
Yeah, depth is going to be nonexistent. We're going to be a better fitting version of the Suns. Good team, but not enough to be a true contender. |
What depth would the Lakers be losing? |
Rui and AR at the very least. |
Mitchell would be coming back. Wood would step into a bigger role. Vando hopefully won't miss 70 games. So it seems like a non issue.
_________________
It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
levon
Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Oct 2016
Posts: 10897
|
| Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 10:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
| manlisten wrote: | | levon wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | levon wrote: |
Yeah, depth is going to be nonexistent. We're going to be a better fitting version of the Suns. Good team, but not enough to be a true contender. |
What depth would the Lakers be losing? |
Rui and AR at the very least. |
Mitchell would be coming back. Wood would step into a bigger role. Vando hopefully won't miss 70 games. So it seems like a non issue. |
What happens if Vando misses time again like he has every year of his career? Also, Vando and Mitchell don't solve the same problems as Rui. Mitchell plays 1/2 guard, not 3/backup 4. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
manlisten
Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2004
Posts: 3257
|
| Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 10:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
| levon wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | levon wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | levon wrote: |
Yeah, depth is going to be nonexistent. We're going to be a better fitting version of the Suns. Good team, but not enough to be a true contender. |
What depth would the Lakers be losing? |
Rui and AR at the very least. |
Mitchell would be coming back. Wood would step into a bigger role. Vando hopefully won't miss 70 games. So it seems like a non issue. |
What happens if Vando misses time again like he has every year of his career? Also, Vando and Mitchell don't solve the same problems as Rui. Mitchell plays 1/2 guard, not 3/backup 4. |
You're ignoring Wood who has said he'll be opting in. He is repetitive with Rui and can fill the same role. Has also shown to be a capable defender and rebounder next to AD.
_________________
It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Denny_Russo
Star Player
Joined: 27 Jan 2016
Posts: 2952
|
| Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 10:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
In theory, Mitchell+AD+3/D wings is great and a very competitive team in the west. The problem is when you throw Lebron into that equation. It forces Mitchell to turn into Malik Monk and that's not what he wants, given his high usage rate over the years. It would be a role adjustment for him. It's the Westbrook fiasco all over again. There's only one ball to go around.
All of it is pure pipe, though, because BKN has the most assets to offer and 7 FRPs thanks to Phoenix.
_________________
Yi Jianlian Fanboy. Respect The Chair.
Starting anew. I'm retiring my main. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
defense
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 39757
|
| Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 10:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
So we get MItchell for Reaves, Rui and scraps?
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
manlisten
Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2004
Posts: 3257
|
| Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 10:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
| defense wrote: | So we get MItchell for Reaves, Rui and scraps?
|
Are you aware of what Cleveland traded for him?
_________________
It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
manlisten
Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2004
Posts: 3257
|
| Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 10:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Denny_Russo wrote: | In theory, Mitchell+AD+3/D wings is great and a very competitive team in the west. The problem is when you throw Lebron into that equation. It forces Mitchell to turn into Malik Monk and that's not what he wants, given his high usage rate over the years. It would be a role adjustment for him. It's the Westbrook fiasco all over again. There's only one ball to go around.
All of it is pure pipe, though, because BKN has the most assets to offer and 7 FRPs thanks to Phoenix. |
Westbrook had a near 30% usage rate with the Lakers. The problem wasn't him getting the ball, it was him not doing anything good with it. It's unrealistic to think Mitchell, a top 5 scorer, wouldn't have the ball in his hands.
Also, the Nets finished 11th in a weak east. They're not exactly one move away from contending and they might lose Claxton in free agency. Would be surprising if Mitchell committed long term with that roster.
_________________
It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nomoreshaq
Star Player
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 5190
|
| Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 10:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Halflife wrote: | If your spida where would you go if options aplenty.
Lakers- toxic, drama, player picked coaches . Epic brand. Great franchise. West is a beast
Heat- some talent issues but great coach and in east
Nyk- you would have to submit to Brunson. Great teammates. Gnarly coach
Nets- your team, some talent. East. Ownership seems sketchy |
If you are Spida, you do not want to goto the Heat or the NYK where he will be left with zero knees by the time he is 30 years old. He thinks he played too many minutes in Cleveland? Yeah, let's Heat Culture or Thibs him then lol. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Denny_Russo
Star Player
Joined: 27 Jan 2016
Posts: 2952
|
| Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 11:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
| manlisten wrote: | | defense wrote: | So we get MItchell for Reaves, Rui and scraps?
|
Are you aware of what Cleveland traded for him? |
A very good haul...
| Quote: |
Collin Sexton
Lauri Markkanen
Ochai Agbaji
2025 first-round pick
2026 pick swap
2027 first-round pick
2028 pick swap
2029 first-round pick
|
It's downright comical to sell them on guys like JHS and Rui. Any discussion on Mitchell would have to begin with AR and then they'd have to attach every FRP available in the next 5 years.
_________________
Yi Jianlian Fanboy. Respect The Chair.
Starting anew. I'm retiring my main. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
levon
Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Oct 2016
Posts: 10897
|
| Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 11:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
| manlisten wrote: | | levon wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | levon wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | levon wrote: |
Yeah, depth is going to be nonexistent. We're going to be a better fitting version of the Suns. Good team, but not enough to be a true contender. |
What depth would the Lakers be losing? |
Rui and AR at the very least. |
Mitchell would be coming back. Wood would step into a bigger role. Vando hopefully won't miss 70 games. So it seems like a non issue. |
What happens if Vando misses time again like he has every year of his career? Also, Vando and Mitchell don't solve the same problems as Rui. Mitchell plays 1/2 guard, not 3/backup 4. |
You're ignoring Wood who has said he'll be opting in. He is repetitive with Rui and can fill the same role. Has also shown to be a capable defender and rebounder next to AD. |
Rui and Wood don't play the same roles on either offense or defense, and Rui's a markedly better player at this point.
Don't make the mistake of undervaluing role players based on their last playoff performance. That's why we blew up all our depth in 2021. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bron2AD
Star Player
Joined: 01 Jun 2021
Posts: 9666
|
| Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 11:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
| 2019 wrote: | | Bron2AD wrote: | | Inverse wrote: | DLO
Donovan Mitchell
Vando
LBJ
AD
That has to be the top 3 starting 5 in the league assuming lebron doesnt fall off too hard. |
That backcourt is getting torched every night |
Yup.. I don't love it either. D'lo should be flipped into better defensive & role player either this summer or by deadline. |
yupe. if DLO doesnt come back we have full MLE. Bruce brown or KCP?
wishful thinking but i think they are getting more |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ChickenStu
Retired Number
Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 32332
Location: Anaheim, CA
|
| Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 11:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah, Mitchell will not prefer the Nets if winning is a huge priority. They just wouldn't be that good with him, and who knows how long it would take for them to become a contender. And of course, that may never happen. But we can't rule them out because there's always the chance that he simply wants to return home and play in New York, and maybe he feels like the Knicks aren't a fit but that with the Nets, it would be his team and even if they never become a serious contender, maybe he's content to make max money (with Bird rights if traded there, he'd get his full max) and just live in New York year-round.
I think he'd like Miami, but unless they are willing to part with Jaquez, they can't beat our offer. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ChickenStu
Retired Number
Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 32332
Location: Anaheim, CA
|
| Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 11:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Denny_Russo wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | defense wrote: | So we get MItchell for Reaves, Rui and scraps?
|
Are you aware of what Cleveland traded for him? |
A very good haul...
| Quote: |
Collin Sexton
Lauri Markkanen
Ochai Agbaji
2025 first-round pick
2026 pick swap
2027 first-round pick
2028 pick swap
2029 first-round pick
|
It's downright comical to sell them on guys like JHS and Rui. Any discussion on Mitchell would have to begin with AR and then they'd have to attach every FRP available in the next 5 years. |
It's very clear to me that Reaves has to go if we're going to land Mitchell. And yes, all 3 FRP. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
