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Day
Star Player
Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 1811
Location: San Francisco, CA
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 Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Megaton wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Megaton wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Megaton wrote: | | Yama wrote: | | honestly not even excited because I don't trust the front office, we've had horrible hirings in the jeanie era |
How many were horrible? Because so far in the Jeanie era, the Lakers hired Frank Vogel and Darvin Ham.
One was a championship head coach and the other was…well a scam. |
Don’t forget Magic Johnson, Rob Pelinka, and Kurt Rambis. |
none of them were coaches tho. 
Pelinka has done actually a pretty decent job roster wise. The only awful move he actually made was the Westbrook deal. Most of the other moves were pretty logical given the circumstances.
However, not getting a Center has definitely hurt this team the past two years. |
Uh he has made way more than one awful move. |
Like what? What other actually awful move? |
-THT over Caruso
-Green and a 1st for 1yr of Shroeder (the pick was Jaden McDaniels)
-JHS over Jaquez
-Almost every one of his FA signings the last few years with a small handful of exceptions.
-Letting Ty Lue slip away when he wanted to be here
-Hiring Darvin
Do you want more? It’s also strange to say “other than the Westbrook trade” as if it were a hiccup in an otherwise prosperous tenure when it completely destroyed our contention window and shipped out a championship defense for a guy we all knew wasn’t going to work out. You’re happy with this performance? |
- THT over Caruso
This was a money thing so it's on Jeanie, not rob.
- JHS over Jaquez
I mean, it's really hard to say this is a big mistake. If we had gotten Jaquez it's not like Ham would have known how to use him or would have ever given him minutes.
- FA signings
Who was available that he didn't get, could have gotten, but didn't ?
- Ty Lue
Money thing, you think Rob cared about the money? No, it's a Jeanie thing. We have been cheap when it comes to coaches and that's why Ham was hired and Lue declined our cheap offer. |
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jodeke
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Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 68447
Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| TDRock wrote: |
I wonder if that includes Phil Handy as well. I mean I guess it does. That's unfortunate.
EDIT - Yep
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Isn't the reason the Lakers didn't hire Lue to begin with was because they wanted to pick his staff? Has that changed?
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Day
Star Player
Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 1811
Location: San Francisco, CA
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | TDRock wrote: |
I wonder if that includes Phil Handy as well. I mean I guess it does. That's unfortunate.
EDIT - Yep
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Isn't the reason the Lakers didn't hire Lue to begin with was because they wanted to pick his staff? Has that changed? |
It was that + they didn't want to include a guaranteed 4th year. |
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mad55557777
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 23710
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| TDRock wrote: |
I wonder if that includes Phil Handy as well. I mean I guess it does. That's unfortunate.
EDIT - Yep
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Please trade rui now, lol |
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Bron2AD
Star Player
Joined: 01 Jun 2021
Posts: 9752
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Phil handy and entire staff gone |
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anth2000
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 12456
Location: Pasadena, CA
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Bron2AD wrote: | | Phil handy and entire staff gone |
I mean, it's better that way. Rip the bandaid off.
I still think Pelinka should be fired and Bob Myers hired.
Then get a proven coach with their own coaching staff. No Rambis interference.
Then go from there... |
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mad55557777
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Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 23710
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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| anth2000 wrote: | | Bron2AD wrote: | | Phil handy and entire staff gone |
I mean, it's better that way. Rip the bandaid off.
I still think Pelinka should be fired and Bob Myers hired.
Then get a proven coach with their own coaching staff. No Rambis interference.
Then go from there... |
you think Jeanie is going to pay a GM too???
Rob is safe, he saved Jeanie 40-50 mil in taxes last summer, so he has been a good soldier |
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ocho
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Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 54293
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | This was a money thing so it's on Jeanie, not rob. |
No, it was only a money thing because Rob prioritized THT and paid him.
| Quote: | | I mean, it's really hard to say this is a big mistake. If we had gotten Jaquez it's not like Ham would have known how to use him or would have ever given him minutes. |
Really atrocious way of thinking about the draft process. Anyway, Ham’s gone now. Wouldn’t it be nice to have Jaquez instead of an unauthentic combo guard with no discernible NBA skill he can hang his hat on?
| Quote: | | Who was available that he didn't get, could have gotten, but didn't ? |
I’m not going to comb through multiple years of FA transaction history. You can if you’d like. When your team is built around 2-3 max players you need to hit your signings. When nearly every player you sign stinks, it’s a problem. When he’s actually had more than a min to spend the choices have been Trez, Nunn, and Gabe.
| Quote: | | Money thing, you think Rob cared about the money? No, it's a Jeanie thing. We have been cheap when it comes to coaches and that's why Ham was hired and Lue declined our cheap offer. |
Money may have been part of it, but only offering a 3 year (really a 2 year) deal and demanding to pick his staff was on Rob. Lue reportedly agreed to the salary but balked on the other stuff. Ham, a first time coach, was given a 4 year deal and freedom to pick his staff. Lesson learned too late. Now we want Lue again but he’s not available. Another job well done.
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WC13
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Joined: 13 Jun 2018
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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So he's gone. Good news.
The problem with Ham wasn't the basic line-up or basic game plan(s) or injuries...
it was what to do in the middle of a game when things start falling apart, when the momentum shifts.
Like a deer in the headlights.
I do hope the Lakers hire a real coach. |
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anth2000
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Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 12456
Location: Pasadena, CA
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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| mad55557777 wrote: | | anth2000 wrote: | | Bron2AD wrote: | | Phil handy and entire staff gone |
I mean, it's better that way. Rip the bandaid off.
I still think Pelinka should be fired and Bob Myers hired.
Then get a proven coach with their own coaching staff. No Rambis interference.
Then go from there... |
you think Jeanie is going to pay a GM too???
Rob is safe, he saved Jeanie 40-50 mil in taxes last summer, so he has been a good soldier |
Sadly, Jeanie is an idiot wrapped in a moron. She's a dumbass. She has no business making decisions. Wish the Buss family would just sell their share of the Lakers to real smart business people, not this outdated cheapass mom and pop shop ownership still clinging the the 1980's. |
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lakersfan32
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 4022
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Who was available that he didn't get, could have gotten, but didn't ? |
portis, hartenstein
Last edited by lakersfan32 on Fri May 03, 2024 1:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ducasse
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Joined: 05 Sep 2002
Posts: 8449
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Why is Lue even brought up? He's under contract next year and there's no way Ballmer just say ok go to the Lakers. |
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Lamar's Bud
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 2274
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Treble Clef wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Not defending Ham but changing coaches every two years isn’t something that winning franchises do. |
I think the last 10-15 years is a clear message that as a coach, you have two years to win a title here or you’re gone. I think this is certainly a team that can win in the next 2 years as constructed but if the good coaches are already under contract, then it’s likely another guy who is just wanting a job. |
It's not even just the Lakers organization. The overall trend in the league now is you have 2-3 years to show results, or the organization will move on to someone new. Gone are the days where most coaches remain with one team for a decade or more.
Going into this season almost 2/3 of the league (19/30) had coaches entering their 3rd season with the team (or less). Not coincidentally, the four coaches with more than 5 years in the current stint with their team have all won championships. The coaching carousel is fast and vicious now.
Popovich - 28 years
Spoelstra - 16 years
Kerr - 10 years
M. Malone - 9 years
4-5 Years
Bickerstaff
Jenkins
Donovan
Lue
Finch
Thibs
3 Years
Vaughn (fired)
Carlisle (second stint in IND)
Kidd
Green
Mosley
Billups
Unseld Jr. (fired)
2 Years
Snyder
Mazzulla
Ham (fired)
Prunty
M. Brown
Hardy
S. Clifford (second stint in CHA) (quit)
1 Year
M. Williams
Udoka
A. Griffin (fired)
Nurse
Vogel
Rajakovic |
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JerryWest_44
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Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 25634
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| WC13 wrote: | So he's gone. Good news.
The problem with Ham wasn't the basic line-up or basic game plan(s) or injuries...
it was what to do in the middle of a game when things start falling apart, when the momentum shifts.
Like a deer in the headlights.
I do hope the Lakers hire a real coach. |
After the in season tournament win there was a complete drop off in energy, fire & desire. That's on the coach!. Plus staying away from the play-in tournament is a must for this organization. No surprise that the young Ham was over his head. We rolled the dice & hoped a new/unexperienced coach would turn into Spoelstra but he didn't.
So do we hire a an experienced Butt-kicking coach (not a Butt kissing coach) or a new unexperienced coach (hoping he turns into a Spoelstra)?
Last edited by JerryWest_44 on Fri May 03, 2024 1:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Halflife
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tox
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Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 18226
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| WC13 wrote: | So he's gone. Good news.
The problem with Ham wasn't the basic line-up or basic game plan(s) or injuries...
it was what to do in the middle of a game when things start falling apart, when the momentum shifts.
Like a deer in the headlights.
I do hope the Lakers hire a real coach. |
Well the lineups were issues... lol
But yea having a double digit lead in like every Nuggets game meant the Lakers had a good initial game plan but couldn't sustain it / adjust on-the-fly -- a better coach will hopefully be able to make better adjustments.
That seems to be a theme with Darvin incidentally; he seems to just be slow to make rotations. He seems to be very reactive. He had a few pre-defined beliefs (like, "it's bad to start Max Christie over established vets even if the results were good") but other than that, seemed willing to try things. That seemed like a good thing at times (remember when Cam Reddish was good? ) but overall he stuck with things that didn't work for too long, i.e. he was too slow to adjust. In the playoffs, quick on-the-fly adjustments are crucial. When the Nuggets put Gordon on AD the Lakers should've been able to figure out how to attack it sooner (a LeBron PnR with whoever Murray was guarding seems like the obvious fix), but Ham just kept trying to target Jokic even though Rui is not a good PnR player |
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Day
Star Player
Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 1811
Location: San Francisco, CA
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | This was a money thing so it's on Jeanie, not rob. |
No, it was only a money thing because Rob prioritized THT and paid him.
| Quote: | | I mean, it's really hard to say this is a big mistake. If we had gotten Jaquez it's not like Ham would have known how to use him or would have ever given him minutes. |
Really atrocious way of thinking about the draft process. Anyway, Ham’s gone now. Wouldn’t it be nice to have Jaquez instead of an unauthentic combo guard with no discernible NBA skill he can hang his hat on?
| Quote: | | Who was available that he didn't get, could have gotten, but didn't ? |
I’m not going to comb through multiple years of FA transaction history. You can if you’d like. When your team is built around 2-3 max players you need to hit your signings. When nearly every player you sign stinks, it’s a problem. When he’s actually had more than a min to spend the choices have been Trez, Nunn, and Gabe.
| Quote: | | Money thing, you think Rob cared about the money? No, it's a Jeanie thing. We have been cheap when it comes to coaches and that's why Ham was hired and Lue declined our cheap offer. |
Money may have been part of it, but only offering a 3 year (really a 2 year) deal and demanding to pick his staff was on Rob. Lue reportedly agreed to the salary but balked on the other stuff. Ham, a first time coach, was given a 4 year deal and freedom to pick his staff. Lesson learned too late. Now we want Lue again but he’s not available. Another job well done. |
I thought there was something about Caruso's contract that would have put heavy into luxury tax or something along those lines.
I think I wasn't clear or you misunderstood my point about JHS/Jaquez. I'm saying we could have Jaquez and think he's a bust and JHS could have balled out on another bad team. JHS was putting up really good numbers in the g-league and Jaquez, like I said, wouldn't have probably ever even gotten to play.
For the Ty Lue thing, it's hard to really say. Jeanie seems to be at fault for a lot of the things people try to blame Rob for IMO |
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ducasse
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Joined: 05 Sep 2002
Posts: 8449
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| anth2000 wrote: | | Bron2AD wrote: | | Phil handy and entire staff gone |
I mean, it's better that way. Rip the bandaid off.
I still think Pelinka should be fired and Bob Myers hired.
Then get a proven coach with their own coaching staff. No Rambis interference.
Then go from there... |
Jeanie is not going to fire Rob but that doesn't mean they can't hire Bob and Rob's responsibilities could be changed. It would be a lot of money to hire Bob though, and that's where it falls apart. |
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Bron2AD
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Joined: 01 Jun 2021
Posts: 9752
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| anth2000 wrote: | | Bron2AD wrote: | | Phil handy and entire staff gone |
I mean, it's better that way. Rip the bandaid off.
I still think Pelinka should be fired and Bob Myers hired.
Then get a proven coach with their own coaching staff. No Rambis interference.
Then go from there... |
i agree...i was just reporting the news |
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Laker4lifer4real
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Joined: 15 Jul 2017
Posts: 3487
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Lamar's Bud wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Not defending Ham but changing coaches every two years isn’t something that winning franchises do. |
I think the last 10-15 years is a clear message that as a coach, you have two years to win a title here or you’re gone. I think this is certainly a team that can win in the next 2 years as constructed but if the good coaches are already under contract, then it’s likely another guy who is just wanting a job. |
It's not even just the Lakers organization. The overall trend in the league now is you have 2-3 years to show results, or the organization will move on to someone new. Gone are the days where most coaches remain with one team for a decade or more.
Going into this season almost 2/3 of the league (19/30) had coaches entering their 3rd season with the team (or less). Not coincidentally, the four coaches with more than 5 years in the current stint with their team have all won championships. The coaching carousel is fast and vicious now.
Popovich - 28 years
Spoelstra - 16 years
Kerr - 10 years
M. Malone - 9 years
4-5 Years
Bickerstaff
Jenkins
Donovan
Lue
Finch
Thibs
3 Years
Vaughn (fired)
Carlisle (second stint in IND)
Kidd
Green
Mosley
Billups
Unseld Jr. (fired)
2 Years
Snyder
Mazzulla
Ham (fired)
Prunty
M. Brown
Hardy
S. Clifford (second stint in CHA) (quit)
1 Year
M. Williams
Udoka
A. Griffin (fired)
Nurse
Vogel
Rajakovic |
Great post. A lot for the league to think about. However, we are in a unique situation due to Lebron’s age. Ham would be better with a younger building team. He was thrown into the lions’s den with the likely champs in 2 Playoffs and “$hit the bed”. |
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LuciusAllen
Star Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2005
Posts: 5810
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Lamar's Bud wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Not defending Ham but changing coaches every two years isn’t something that winning franchises do. |
I think the last 10-15 years is a clear message that as a coach, you have two years to win a title here or you’re gone. I think this is certainly a team that can win in the next 2 years as constructed but if the good coaches are already under contract, then it’s likely another guy who is just wanting a job. |
It's not even just the Lakers organization. The overall trend in the league now is you have 2-3 years to show results, or the organization will move on to someone new. Gone are the days where most coaches remain with one team for a decade or more.
Going into this season almost 2/3 of the league (19/30) had coaches entering their 3rd season with the team (or less). Not coincidentally, the four coaches with more than 5 years in the current stint with their team have all won championships. The coaching carousel is fast and vicious now.
Popovich - 28 years
Spoelstra - 16 years
Kerr - 10 years
M. Malone - 9 years
|
It's interesting to me that the teams noted above are able to win, then go through a rebuild and win again (eh, maybe less with Denver, but they are clearly a winning program now). They establish and maintain a culture that persists as long as they are there. They also probably have great synergy with their front offices.
Clearly, the Lakers don't really seem to care about that. I would guess, though, that clearing out the coaching staff means they're opting for continuity on the roster, and hoping that the chemistry there will make the next staff's jobs a little easier. |
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Halflife
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 17543
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| LuciusAllen wrote: | | Lamar's Bud wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Not defending Ham but changing coaches every two years isn’t something that winning franchises do. |
I think the last 10-15 years is a clear message that as a coach, you have two years to win a title here or you’re gone. I think this is certainly a team that can win in the next 2 years as constructed but if the good coaches are already under contract, then it’s likely another guy who is just wanting a job. |
It's not even just the Lakers organization. The overall trend in the league now is you have 2-3 years to show results, or the organization will move on to someone new. Gone are the days where most coaches remain with one team for a decade or more.
Going into this season almost 2/3 of the league (19/30) had coaches entering their 3rd season with the team (or less). Not coincidentally, the four coaches with more than 5 years in the current stint with their team have all won championships. The coaching carousel is fast and vicious now.
Popovich - 28 years
Spoelstra - 16 years
Kerr - 10 years
M. Malone - 9 years
|
It's interesting to me that the teams noted above are able to win, then go through a rebuild and win again (eh, maybe less with Denver, but they are clearly a winning program now). They establish and maintain a culture that persists as long as they are there. They also probably have great synergy with their front offices.
Clearly, the Lakers don't really seem to care about that. I would guess, though, that clearing out the coaching staff means they're opting for continuity on the roster, and hoping that the chemistry there will make the next staff's jobs a little easier. |
we need better players moreso than a new coach.
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jb2
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Joined: 03 Dec 2014
Posts: 11043
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| LuciusAllen wrote: | | Lamar's Bud wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Not defending Ham but changing coaches every two years isn’t something that winning franchises do. |
I think the last 10-15 years is a clear message that as a coach, you have two years to win a title here or you’re gone. I think this is certainly a team that can win in the next 2 years as constructed but if the good coaches are already under contract, then it’s likely another guy who is just wanting a job. |
It's not even just the Lakers organization. The overall trend in the league now is you have 2-3 years to show results, or the organization will move on to someone new. Gone are the days where most coaches remain with one team for a decade or more.
Going into this season almost 2/3 of the league (19/30) had coaches entering their 3rd season with the team (or less). Not coincidentally, the four coaches with more than 5 years in the current stint with their team have all won championships. The coaching carousel is fast and vicious now.
Popovich - 28 years
Spoelstra - 16 years
Kerr - 10 years
M. Malone - 9 years
|
It's interesting to me that the teams noted above are able to win, then go through a rebuild and win again (eh, maybe less with Denver, but they are clearly a winning program now). They establish and maintain a culture that persists as long as they are there. They also probably have great synergy with their front offices.
Clearly, the Lakers don't really seem to care about that. I would guess, though, that clearing out the coaching staff means they're opting for continuity on the roster, and hoping that the chemistry there will make the next staff's jobs a little easier. |
None of those guys were retreads. The teams took chances on all of them and they were younger when hired. Teams invested in them and were patient.
I don't know that a guy you are going to keep about 10-15 years is just sitting at home waiting for a call. They're likely on a sideline somewhere waiting for a chance to get noticed. |
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anth2000
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 12456
Location: Pasadena, CA
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Bron2AD wrote: | | anth2000 wrote: | | Bron2AD wrote: | | Phil handy and entire staff gone |
I mean, it's better that way. Rip the bandaid off.
I still think Pelinka should be fired and Bob Myers hired.
Then get a proven coach with their own coaching staff. No Rambis interference.
Then go from there... |
i agree...i was just reporting the news |
Yep. Should be interesting. They need to really look at other things, not just the coach. I really think Pelinka needs to be under scrutiny and the behind-the-scenes nepotism team of Linda and Kurt Rambis. |
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deal
Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Aug 2008
Posts: 14987
Location: Earth
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Treble Clef wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Not defending Ham but changing coaches every two years isn’t something that winning franchises do. |
I think the last 10-15 years is a clear message that as a coach, you have two years to win a title here or you’re gone. I think this is certainly a team that can win in the next 2 years as constructed but if the good coaches are already under contract, then it’s likely another guy who is just wanting a job. |
I think there is a clear message that the FO does not know how
to hire a coach or a GM for that matter.
Hire tough, get the right people in place.
Letting a player and his agent run the team?, that is not a path
any team should follow.
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