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Comrades
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 Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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philly next..dangerous team..we need another solid game..
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chantruong
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Joined: 15 Jun 2009
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Location: SGV
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| how many times did people cuss today? |
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wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58352
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| rpadma12 wrote: | | sadly the only player who can get the ball to Pau/Bynum with a good set up on a consistent basis is Kobe.. Kobe played a great floor game today.. the shots going to Farmar/Shannon/Fisher really should be off ball movement from inside out. |
Yes that's because Kobe has the ability to draw defenses.
Noone is going to sink in on Farmar, Brown or even Odom. Not on a consistent basis. Teams probably rather have Fish take the open layup.
The thing is it's not just about setting them up the way Kobe does or a way an elite PG can. That's one thing. The thing that frustrates me is that they can't make post entry or throw lobs.
Lamar and Luke are the only 2 guys who know how to throw a post entry pass consistently and they'll even throw lobs. Farmar and Brown don't even try against a pressure defense. They'll give up very quick. Bynum and LO and Pau can have their man sealed and you can be sure that neither Brown or Farmar will ever make the pass in fear of a TO. |
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JTS1
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Joined: 08 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | rpadma12 wrote: | | sadly the only player who can get the ball to Pau/Bynum with a good set up on a consistent basis is Kobe.. Kobe played a great floor game today.. the shots going to Farmar/Shannon/Fisher really should be off ball movement from inside out. |
Yes that's because Kobe has the ability to draw defenses.
Noone is going to sink in on Farmar, Brown or even Odom. Not on a consistent basis. Teams probably rather have Fish take the open layup.
The thing is it's not just about setting them up the way Kobe does or a way an elite PG can. That's one thing. The thing that frustrates me is that they can't make post entry or throw lobs.
Lamar and Luke are the only 2 guys who know how to throw a post entry pass consistently and they'll even throw lobs. Farmar and Brown don't even try against a pressure defense. They'll give up very quick. Bynum and LO and Pau can have their man sealed and you can be sure that neither Brown or Farmar will ever make the pass in fear of a TO. |
so why is that? inexperience? being too much shoot-first mentality? not working on court recognition during practice?
wolfpacker gives takes that are very insightful. thanks.
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City_Dawg
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Joined: 14 Jul 2006
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Location: Coming soon and striking at your borders.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| JTS1 wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | | rpadma12 wrote: | | sadly the only player who can get the ball to Pau/Bynum with a good set up on a consistent basis is Kobe.. Kobe played a great floor game today.. the shots going to Farmar/Shannon/Fisher really should be off ball movement from inside out. |
Yes that's because Kobe has the ability to draw defenses.
Noone is going to sink in on Farmar, Brown or even Odom. Not on a consistent basis. Teams probably rather have Fish take the open layup.
The thing is it's not just about setting them up the way Kobe does or a way an elite PG can. That's one thing. The thing that frustrates me is that they can't make post entry or throw lobs.
Lamar and Luke are the only 2 guys who know how to throw a post entry pass consistently and they'll even throw lobs. Farmar and Brown don't even try against a pressure defense. They'll give up very quick. Bynum and LO and Pau can have their man sealed and you can be sure that neither Brown or Farmar will ever make the pass in fear of a TO. |
so why is that? inexperience? being too much shoot-first mentality? not working on court recognition during practice?
wolfpacker gives takes that are very insightful. thanks. |
Well, look at the two guys he highlighted, Luke and Lamar, the two most unselfish guys on the team and two of the team's willing passers.
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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so why is that? inexperience? being too much shoot-first mentality? not working on court recognition during practice? |
Think you answered your own question with those questions. It's a combination of those 3.
Brown and Farmar are playing for bigger pay days and like Drew they have a certain shoot first mentality. That is fine, they are young guys trying to make a name for themselves. Shannon deserves some slack because atleast he's been cutting and shooting the ball well. He's also playing 2 guard. Farmar OTOH has been extremely underwhelming as a passer. I don't know what's up with this aspect of his game. He just never got it, or chose to get it.
I don't mind that they are uber confident in themselves. However as guards you need to know the strengths and weaknesses of the team. Taking 20' to 30' jumpers after dribbling or just spotting up when guys inside the paint are killing the other team ... that's just silly. |
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JTS1
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Quote: |
so why is that? inexperience? being too much shoot-first mentality? not working on court recognition during practice? |
Think you answered your own question with those questions. It's a combination of those 3.
Brown and Farmar are playing for bigger pay days and like Drew they have a certain shoot first mentality. That is fine, they are young guys trying to make a name for themselves. Shannon deserves some slack because atleast he's been cutting and shooting the ball well. He's also playing 2 guard. Farmar OTOH has been extremely underwhelming as a passer. I don't know what's up with this aspect of his game. He just never got it, or chose to get it.
I don't mind that they are uber confident in themselves. However as guards you need to know the strengths and weaknesses of the team. Taking 20' to 30' jumpers after dribbling or just spotting up when guys inside the paint are killing the other team ... that's just silly. |
i try very hard to look for gray areas since nothing is black and white.
farmar has been one of my least favorite players of late because it seems he doesn't understand how to set his team mates to get them shots in the optimum spots on the floor. the fourth quarter made me crazy. the lead was built on going inside, yet he and sb didn't do that. kobe for a short stint as well, but kobe's overall game was great today.
does the coaching staff point these things out? i'm asking to get an understanding of the relationship of player w/coaching staff. there's the rest of the team to help point things out as well. i don't want to believe that each player is left on their own individual island to figure things out.
but we as fans, as 'fanatical' as we all are, even untrained eyes, we see certain habits daily. it drives me crazy, because there are more and more stretches of in-game moments where it looks like the guards 'get it', only to be driven crazy to see certain habits like the beginning of the fourth quarter creep into a game.
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B_P
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Joined: 28 May 2003
Posts: 8598
Location: (physically) West Seattle (heart) Venice Beach
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Quote: |
so why is that? inexperience? being too much shoot-first mentality? not working on court recognition during practice? |
Think you answered your own question with those questions. It's a combination of those 3.
Brown and Farmar are playing for bigger pay days and like Drew they have a certain shoot first mentality. That is fine, they are young guys trying to make a name for themselves. Shannon deserves some slack because atleast he's been cutting and shooting the ball well. He's also playing 2 guard. Farmar OTOH has been extremely underwhelming as a passer. I don't know what's up with this aspect of his game. He just never got it, or chose to get it. |
I'm not totally sure what you're implying here, but I just want to point out that Drew's first priority (on offense) should be to shoot. He shot over 80% tonight. On lobs and when he gets the ball from penetrations, I want our 7-foot, 280lb. bigman thinking "shoot first." When Drew is in deep scoring position, I want him thinking "DUNK first!" Guards running the offense think "pass-first." Bigs with great inside position think "shoot-first."
But when Drew posts-up and we're running our triangle sets, Drew is thinking pass-first. He's catching, holding, waiting for movement, reading the D and looking for the pass first, just as he's been coached to do. He's not just catching the ball, putting his head down, ignoring everyone else and just plowing into his man to score.
If we run our cuts and someone is open for a high % look, Drew passes it to him. Drew is making good decisions and is playing the post position in the triangle correctly. If there are screens/cutters and someone is open, he passes to him. If no one is moving and he's single-covered, he goes to work and either scores or gets fouled.
| wolfpaclaker wrote: |
I don't mind that they are uber confident in themselves. However as guards you need to know the strengths and weaknesses of the team. Taking 20' to 30' jumpers after dribbling or just spotting up when guys inside the paint are killing the other team ... that's just silly. |
This.
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FC Lakers
Sixth Man
Joined: 07 Jan 2008
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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Jordan's got to do a better job being a leader on the court. There were several break-neck incidents tonight that make you wonder if he has the mental capacity to run a team or if he'll always be destined to be a bench player. Fisher, for all his weaknesses, generally does an excellent job of controlling tempo and making smart decisions. Case in point- he had a 1 on 4 opportunity tonight and rather than pull the trigger on a semi-transition jumper, he wisely pulled out and reset the offense. You know Jordan wouldn't have blinked before taking the shot.
It's the little things in his attitude and demeanor on the court that worry me. He seems to sulk somewhat when he doesn't have the ball in his hands and you can see it in his eyes that he's none too thrilled with having to defer to Kobe. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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B_P - Drew should look to shoot first and make his moves but he is often blinded when making his moves - to a cutter open. He just doesn't look once he makes a move. I expect (hope) Drew changes in this regard.
Eventually Drew will start facing double and triple teams even. It is imperative that when he makes a move he still look for cutters or open areas in the court.
That won't come as easy as to him as the rest of the things he's improved on because you need actual live in game practice - with the ball and against quality defenses. The rest of his game he can improve just working out with coaches or off the court. The two things that are left for him to make that next step to a great player are IMO 1) Team defensive recognition and 2) Passing out of the post.
You look at Pau, he's marvelous at doing that (passing) and atleast last year in the playoffs was good at reading team defensive assignments. Right now that is what seperates them on. The only reason IMO this team does better with Pau or Phil trusts Pau more at C to close is that Drew can not be a facilitator or playmaker as fluidly nor read the team defensive assignments as quickly.
For Drew it's not so much a bad thing as it would be if he were a point guard, but it is something he should change. At times he can become a blackhole. Again though, some of the best players of all time have been just that - blackholes. He will get it eventually. I have never lost faith in Drew and expect him to improve (and continue to prove doubters wrong). |
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